[3.5] I can has hivemind and multiple bodies?

[Analytica]

There is a nice old RPG campaign and fantasy epic which includes an evil wizard with the ability to clone himself. The clones are generally weaker than the original, but persistent, and while they act and use magic in parallel, they also share a common consciousness.

Do you know how D&D 3.5 rules could represent this? The most important thing, I guess, is that the clones should not have to be renewed each day, so that they could be sent on long "away missions" while the original is busy sleeping in its tomb, or whatever.

I can see how it could be done using some Dreamscarred psionics: Mind Seed suitable host bodies to clone your personality, and have enough Society Mind levels to connect all the clones regardless of distance.

Can it be done with arcane magic? Maybe Mindrape to make another person into a copy of you, resynchronizing memory and personalities whenever suitable? Is there some way to Mindrape someone over an arbitrary distance (do it again each night to maintain clone personality integrity)? Leadership or thrallherd shenanigans? Any way to set up an actual hive mind except through 3rd party sources?

[jiriku]

Psionics to the rescue.

Mindseed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm).
True Mind Switch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm) with a creature that has a hive mind or multiple form.
Theoretically, a persistent Schism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm) combined with something that allows your second mind to possess another body (like a psionic magic jar), would also do it, although I'm not sure how you'd get the long durations going. My psi-fu is weak.

[Analytica]

True Mind Switch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm) with a creature that has a hive mind or multiple form.


Do you know of any suitable creatures?

[9mm]

maybe throwing PaO around with the old H.I.V.E? build?

[Lysander]

Not precisely a hive mind, but what about using simulacrums connected to one another and the original with permanencied telepathic bond. Periodically they can cast Modify Memory on one another so they can share experiences first hand.

[Snake-Aes]

Do you know of any suitable creatures?

Depends. As far as suitability can go, you can use that power to turn yourself into a psionic sandwich.


I am not aware of any "hive mind" spells/powers/McGuffins, but getting more of you is easy: Mind Seed.

[jiriku]

Do you know of any suitable creatures?

Cranium rats. Moon rats. Maybe?

[Analytica]

Thank you all for good replies. : )

I had actually thought Simulacrum had a limited duration, which apparently it has not, making it an interesting option. Follow-up questions:

- Is there any way to get around the inability of a simulacrum to heal without 24 hours in a lab?
- Is there some way (spell, item etc.) I can use a spell like modify memory or mind rape on my simulacra regardless of where in the world they are, without going there or bringing them to me?

[Prime32]

There's the dvati race from Dragon Compendium, which has two bodies. They work, from best to worst, as:

Fiend of possession (possess two things at once, your low hp don't matter)
Dragonfire adept (breathe twice)
Rogue (easy flanking)
Anything else
Spellcaster (both twins must take actions to cast one spell :smallfrown:)

[Draken]

Thank you all for good replies. : )

I had actually thought Simulacrum had a limited duration, which apparently it has not, making it an interesting option. Follow-up questions:

- Is there any way to get around the inability of a simulacrum to heal without 24 hours in a lab?
- Is there some way (spell, item etc.) I can use a spell like modify memory or mind rape on my simulacra regardless of where in the world they are, without going there or bringing them to me?

1. You could just handwave that limitation for the more recent (than simulacrum) Repair Damage line and Total Repair.

2. You can permanence-y Rary's Telepathic Bond between the many simulacrums for a hivemind of sorts.

[subject42]

I don't have the details worked out, but you could probably do it with some Southern Magician/Wizard/Cleric/Dweomerkeeper/Vermin Lord Shenanigans.

[Lysander]

Thank you all for good replies. : )

I had actually thought Simulacrum had a limited duration, which apparently it has not, making it an interesting option. Follow-up questions:

- Is there any way to get around the inability of a simulacrum to heal without 24 hours in a lab?
- Is there some way (spell, item etc.) I can use a spell like modify memory or mind rape on my simulacra regardless of where in the world they are, without going there or bringing them to me?

The simulacrum are loyal to you and they have some of your abilities. Theoretically if your level is high enough they could teleport to a laboratory and repair themselves. They could also cast modify memory on each other.

For example, you could have one simulacrum whose job is just to travel around updating everyone's memory. He would teleport to you and to each simulacrum on a regular schedule to collect and dispense memories. Owning a Mirror of Mental Prowess would make this a lot easier since you can create portals to anywhere (even across planes) without a daily limit.

A few limitations with Modify Memory: Modify Memory is a bard spell, so you'd need a scroll or wand of it or gain some other way of accessing it. Also modify memory just allows you to place 5 minutes of memories at a time. So you couldn't use it to create perfectly identical memories, just to share important moments. You'd mostly stay on the same page just by remaining in frequent telepathic contact through Telepathic Bond.

I actually would not use Mind Rape, and here's why. Although the spell is ideal for making everyone have your exact mind, it would also strip them of their own memories. I guess important memories could be saved by giving them to you with Modify Memory before you cast Mind Rape on them, but it seems like you'd still lose far too much. I guess it's fine if you don't care that the simulacrums remember what they did and just use them for temporary missions where you wipe them like a blank slate afterwards.

[hamishspence]

The description of the spell says it "grants access to all the target's memories"- so, in theory, each time you use it, you automatically know everything that's happened to them (from their point of view).

You don't necessarily have to strip all their memories, either- it can do practically anything with the mind of the victim.

[Analytica]

The simulacrum are loyal to you and they have some of your abilities. Theoretically if your level is high enough they could teleport to a laboratory and repair themselves. They could also cast modify memory on each other.

For example, you could have one simulacrum whose job is just to travel around updating everyone's memory. He would teleport to you and to each simulacrum on a regular schedule to collect and dispense memories. Owning a Mirror of Mental Prowess would make this a lot easier since you can create portals to anywhere (even across planes) without a daily limit.


True. I forgot to say that I would like to avoid teleporting as much as possible, because it drastically increases the capacities of this character so much. If you can teleport to where the clone is, then why have it sent there in the first place? I guess what I am looking for is something like how you can manifest powers on a target through Remote Viewing, but for arcane magic. Maybe some item you can place on them?


The description of the spell says it "grants access to all the target's memories"- so, in theory, each time you use it, you automatically know everything that's happened to them (from their point of view).

You don't necessarily have to strip all their memories, either- it can do practically anything with the mind of the victim.

Exactly - first learn everything, update the main mind, memory set and personality from that, then clone it back over into the simulacrum.

[jiriku]

Your simulacra can use true mind switch, magic jar, or astral projection to either acquire a different body or generate disposable bodies that can be discarded and replaced easily when damaged.