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View Full Version : Helping out a new player [3.5]



Harris the Ford
2010-08-05, 06:21 PM
So I'm DMing a game and one of the players is completely new to playing and decided to roll up a druid. The party needed a healer so I let him have the option of spontaneously casting sure spells instead of SNA (I think theres an actual variant somewhere but idc) Well the problem is he is playing this character as a pure healbot. The first round of combat is always the same: cast obscuring mist and wait until someone needs a heal and then run out and touch them. I was reading about the tier system a little bit today and even though it puts druids at 1 he's playing this one as a 4 or so. My question: is there some books or resources that I can point him to to better play his character or is the first few levels of druid kinda lame?

The only reason I ask is because he is playing in a party of heavy optimizers each with 3-5 years of experience each (and we're only like 21 years old on average) and I dont want him to feel useless or underpowered. I'd help him out but I've never played a druid, or in a campaign that even had one so I dont know much about them either.

kr20esp
2010-08-05, 06:29 PM
Is healing all he wants to do?

Even if it is there's bound to be some supplements online with different spells than the PHB ones, which can easily make it more interesting (Always was for me when I played a Wizard). That depends on the DM though, some don't like the addition of various supplements due to balance reasons

Also this thread might help: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/aff/58/aft/730195/afv/topic/Default.aspx

W3bDragon
2010-08-05, 06:32 PM
My feeling here is that if he's not asking for help, and is having fun, then let him learn the system on his own accord. Nothing makes you want to learn more about the system than making a weak first/second character and decide you want to up your game. If you're hand-fed optimized characters, you don't learn much or may get overwhelmed.

All that notwithstanding, I'd suggest a simple start for him would be to pick up the feat Natural Spell so he can cast while in his wild shape. Then simply have him pick a decent shape to assume so that he can fight along with everyone and still toss out healing spells when needed, which would be easier since he's close to everyone and in the thick of things.

Harris the Ford
2010-08-05, 06:35 PM
I'm allowing any WotC material and any campaign-specific material must be approved by me first. I do have the spell compendium, CD, BoED, and most of the other Completes. I'll talk to him a little bit and see what he wants to specialize in after the heals arent needed. I'm trying to just make sure that he can keep up and have fun and the druid looks like a fun class if played right.

ninjaedit:


My feeling here is that if he's not asking for help, and is having fun, then let him learn the system on his own accord. Nothing makes you want to learn more about the system than making a weak first/second character and decide you want to up your game. If you're hand-fed optimized characters, you don't learn much or may get overwhelmed.

All that notwithstanding, I'd suggest a simple start for him would be to pick up the feat Natural Spell so he can cast while in his wild shape. Then simply have him pick a decent shape to assume so that he can fight along with everyone and still toss out healing spells when needed, which would be easier since he's close to everyone and in the thick of things.

The thing is he doesnt look like he's having fun and he has asked for help. I'm not looking to feed his class to him I just need some good books to look in/directions to go in/fun PrCs to show him and we can sit down, go over his options, make sure he understands the class he is playing, and then let him decide on his own. I hope I make sense, I can be kinda rambly.

W3bDragon
2010-08-05, 06:48 PM
The thing is he doesnt look like he's having fun and he has asked for help.

In that case, you can point him towards the basic stuff that he can do with a druid. He can wildshape into something tough and be a frontline fighter. He can use Summon Nature's Ally and summon frontline fighters/flank buddies for everyone. He can also use his spells to add some control to the battle (Entangle). All of these are possible with a druid. Just see what he seems to like the most (Fighter, Summoner, Controller) and focus on that aspect. He can still heal while doing any of these if he has Spontaneous Healing.

I'm no expert on druids myself, but I really advise Natural Spell feat to be the first stop. If he wants to go the summoning route, then the Augment Summoning feat will be useful, as well as spells like Magic Fang.

Also, since the rest of his party are optimizers, maybe you should explain to him that they all have their own little tricks to keep themselves alive, and no one will die if he stops paying attention to them for a few rounds. (Not often anyway)

He has a good class in his hands, he should be able to have a lot of fun with it!

Tyndmyr
2010-08-05, 06:55 PM
Well, you've got three main components to druid.

1. Animal Companion. Not generally an area of focus, but especially handy at low levels. For a new player, I suggest basically having him use this as a low budget fighter, smacking around various mobs.

2. Spellcasting. Being divine, he knows all his spells. This is handy for a noob, but I suggest you guide him in preparing spells. Attack spells are usually satisfying for new players, even if they aren't optimal. Control winds/water are particularly great for making a player feel awesome. Natural Spell is a must.

3. Shapechanging. This benefits a lot from knowledge. Crack open a MM with him, and discuss some of the advantages of various forms. Have him write down the MM page numbers of a couple of his favorites(make sure at least one can fly). This'll cut down on a lot of the page turning during actual gameplay.

Also, if he favors one of those, look at PrCs that favor that combat method. Master of Many Forms, for instance, boosts shapechanging, at the price of the other methods. It's not going to match up well against, say, planar shepherd, but for someone that prefers to shift and bash people, well, being a dragon is awesome.

Make sure he doesn't feel like he has to be a healbot.

Harris the Ford
2010-08-05, 06:55 PM
yeah when they were all rolling up characters he asked the room what a good first level feat would be. The entire room yelled, in chorus, "Natural Spell."

Kylarra
2010-08-05, 07:14 PM
yeah when they were all rolling up characters he asked the room what a good first level feat would be. The entire room yelled, in chorus, "Natural Spell."...so your group of heavy optimizers are apparently all incapable of remembering that druids don't get wildshape until level 5? :smallconfused:

Harris the Ford
2010-08-05, 07:30 PM
...so your group of heavy optimizers are apparently all incapable of remembering that druids don't get wildshape until level 5? :smallconfused:

no, but we'd rather he have it now than forget about it at level 3.

Kylarra
2010-08-05, 07:41 PM
no, but we'd rather he have it now than forget about it at level 3.He can't get it until level 6 because it requires Wild Shape.

TooManyBadgers
2010-08-05, 08:18 PM
It sounds like you're playing at level 1 or 2. At that point, healing isn't such a bad move, especially for a Druid, who's probably tanked physical stats, expecting to rely on WS in a couple of levels. Low level Druids are often just Entangle-batteries anyway.

If the guy isn't unhappy, don't take his toy away and tell him that he's using it wrong. That's the kind of thing that doesn't even fly with 3-year-olds.

If he really is unhappy and he has Wild Shape, you might point out Aspect of the Wolf from the Spell Compendium. It's a fun little level 1 spell that acts as a mini-WS, letting him turn into a Wolf and eat things. With Wild Shape, it still allows spellcasting.


I was reading about the tier system a little bit today and even though it puts druids at 1 he's playing this one as a 4 or so.Frankly, they're far less versatile than any other Tier 1's. They can't approach the Calling/Illusion/Enchantment/Abjuration/I-Do-What-I-Like effects of the rest of the Tier.

By the standards set out in the tier list, I'd lump them in with T2. They have some huge effects at their disposal, but they don't get to work outside the rules in the same way the bottomless-list casters can. Not that it really changes the circumstances much. [/tangent]

Harris the Ford
2010-08-05, 08:26 PM
Frankly, they're far less versatile than any other Tier 1's. They can't approach the Calling/Illusion/Enchantment/Abjuration/I-Do-What-I-Like effects of the rest of the Tier.

By the standards set out in the tier list, I'd lump them in with T2. They have some huge effects at their disposal, but they don't get to work outside the rules in the same way the bottomless-list casters can. Not that it really changes the circumstances much. [/tangent]
This makes sense.

about natural spell: I dont have his character sheet in front of me, he prolly doesnt have it if he doesnt meet the prereqs, I was just trying to emphasize the fact the its is on the top of his to do list. Silly me trying to hyperbolize on the internet.

Awnetu
2010-08-05, 08:43 PM
I would go over the Wild Shape and Summon Monster Line with him, and show him the stuff available to him in the Monster Manuals you allow. Maybe run a fight where you help demonstrate the importance of the druids Entangle as battle field control at the level.

Maybe run over what his buffs also amount to for the party?

ericgrau
2010-08-05, 10:06 PM
I think he's healing because you told him to heal. Introduce him to other spell types like control, summoning, buffing and utility. And wildshape.