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View Full Version : Mind Flayer, heavily weakened. [3.5]



The Pressman
2010-08-05, 09:32 PM
What would you remove/change from the current mind flayer to make it a playable, +0 LA race?
I like the flavor things like extract and mind blast, but one of them would probably have to go.

So what would you do?

jiriku
2010-08-05, 09:38 PM
Both would have to go.

Ditto the massive bonuses to every stat.

Although I suppose a weakened mind blast could work something like a color spray 1/day and scale up with level.

The Pressman
2010-08-05, 09:39 PM
I know that the racial bonuses are insane.
Probably 2 +2 bonuses to int and dex. And maybe a -2 to cha.

Admiral Squish
2010-08-05, 09:45 PM
Actually, I'm intending to do just that in my worldbuilding project (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161890).

I was intending to eliminate mind blast all together. Just make them naturally psionic to show their mental power. Probably +2 int, -2 con, then some weakened extract. No tentacles, but like, deals int damage when pinned, and if the int reaches 0, they die. I was trying to come up with some way to represent consuming the target's knowledge as well.

The Pressman
2010-08-05, 09:48 PM
What I thought is get rid of everyyhing except the innate psionics and extract, but have those be available at a later character level.

Admiral Squish
2010-08-05, 09:54 PM
That's hard to scale, though, you know? Maybe give 'em mind thrust as a psi-like ability? If I remember the rules, that automatically scales with your manifester level.

Escheton
2010-08-05, 10:07 PM
Savage species does not have a mindflayer class?
You should prolly check that book out either way. It has some good points on what gives LA and what doesn't.

Urpriest
2010-08-05, 10:09 PM
Are you ok with them having +0 LA but racial hit dice, if they're desirable racial hit dice? In that case, use the Expanded Psionics Handbook's Psionic Mind Flayer. Their racial hit dice give Telepath casting, and with other stuff weakened enough to get rid of the level adjustment you can create perfectly reasonable characters despite the racial hit dice.

The Pressman
2010-08-05, 10:16 PM
I know, but I'd like to still be able to simply have it as a player race, not a monster class. It's more for flavor and RP than anything else, but I'd still like to try.

Escheton
2010-08-05, 10:22 PM
Keep in mind that you want it because of the flavor and that flavor comes from it's power.
Making it a weakened pc race will probably ruin that.
If drow werent better then elves they would not be nearly as cool.
Or able to build the society that makes then cool.

Simply changing the outward appearance of Elan's would probably do the trick for what you want I think.

Runestar
2010-08-05, 10:40 PM
Extract is actually pretty worthless. The mindflayer is hopeless as a grappler, and anytime the enemy is disabled enough for you to extract, you can just as readily CDG.

As a LA+0 race, you will likely have to strip away just about everything which makes it a mindflayer. If this is the case, you may as well consider playing a flayerspawn psychic character from complete psionic, complete with the mindflayer heritage feats.

The Pressman
2010-08-05, 10:41 PM
Keep in mind that you want it because of the flavor and that flavor comes from it's power.
Making it a weakened pc race will probably ruin that.
If drow werent better then elves they would not be nearly as cool.
Or able to build the society that makes then cool.

Simply changing the outward appearance of Elan's would probably do the trick for what you want I think.

Maybe, but I'd still like to have it have some special-er things, more unique than just appearance.

Escheton
2010-08-05, 10:59 PM
Then you probably cant have what you want without disrupting balance.
Level one characters and races just arent as cool or good. For the good stuff you need lvls or LA.
It's like saying: "I want a lvl 1 fighter, with a +10 attackbonus"
Sure, you can make one, and he will be totally badass. But balance will be right out the window.
As such I recommend simply keeping some abilitys and making it LA 2 or 3.

The Pressman
2010-08-05, 11:09 PM
Then I'll probably end up doing something like get rid of extract and mind blast, keep improved grab and limited psionics, and then make up some flavor. It won't be too unbalancing, and if it is, I can just cut something.

FMArthur
2010-08-05, 11:37 PM
Here, I'll homebrew one right now.



DIHTILLI (AKA BRAIN FLOGGER)
-2 Strength, -2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence
Medium: As Medium creatures, Dihtilli have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Dihtilli base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision 60ft
Naturally psionic: Dihtilli recieve 2 bonus psionic power points at first level
+2 racial bonus on grapple checks
Automatic Languages: Common, Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Infernal, Terran.
Favored Class: Psion or Sorceror
Special Attacks:
Extract (Ex): As a full-round action a Dihtilli can extract the brain of a helpless creature it has pinned, killing it instantly. This attack doesn't work on constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, and undead. It is not instantly fatal to foes with multiple heads.
Minor Mind Blast (Sp) (acquired at level 1): 15ft cone, save DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha (Will negates), targets are stunned for 1d2 rounds. Limit of 1 use per minute until level 5, then infinite use.
Moderate Mind Blast (Sp) (acquired at level 5): 30ft cone, save DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha (Will negates), targets are stunned for 2d3 rounds. Limit of 1 use per minute until level 10, then infinite use.
True Mind Blast (Sp) (acquired at level 10): 60ft cone, save DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha (Will negates), targets are stunned for 3d4 rounds. Limit of 1 use per minute until level 15, then infinite use.


That wasn't too bad, was it?

edit: Typos fixed and Darkvision added (d'oh! They LIVE in the dark!)

ShadowsGrnEyes
2010-08-05, 11:49 PM
No level Adjust Mind Flayer:(aiming for on par with the Core races. I realize some of the newer races are much stronger than this but Core is a nice default)

+2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Str, -2 Con. Flavor wise this fits the image of the Brilliant and mentally overpowering tall scrawny creature.

land speed 30

Darkvision to 60 feet

No racial hit dice

Psionic subtype: 2 bonus power points at first level

Extract: Against a helpless creature a mindflayer may attempt a Coup De Gras with its Tentacles. The Fortitude save for this is equal to 10+(the mindlflayers total class levels)

The Pressman
2010-08-05, 11:49 PM
That's...quite good. Thanks!