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Ponderthought
2010-08-05, 10:40 PM
Lets state it plainly: Im sick of elves. They just bother me, with their pointy ears, and their pretentious attitude, and just everything about the elf-as-told-by-tolkien.

So, Ive decide in my campaign, elves arent a player race. In fact, they might be some of the PC's most powerful enemies. Their going back to the old model of elves: The Fair Folk of European myth.

So I suppose the whole point is, I need to restat them, to bring them more in line with the concept. So, who wants to help overhaul the Elf?

Andion Isurand
2010-08-05, 11:10 PM
Heh, ...don't click the link to my character images if you dont like elves.

As far as elves go, I don't mind them too much, although I think they need to fight more aggressively like they actually have some of the better skilled healers to put them back together. I even heard somewhere that it takes more for a wound to leave a scar on an elf... so its not like they can't have their looks restored.

What I do wish... is for people to start doing more artwork for other types of creatures... artwork that I can compile into collages for some of my other characters.

Anyone see any black slaads recently, or body tamer illithids with really long tentacles?... or gnomes?

////////////////////////////////////////

I would however draw your attention in support of my Elf Adult Age (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160164) thread.

Eldan
2010-08-06, 06:12 AM
Might I recommend taking a look at the elves linked in my sig and going from there? It's shameless self-promotion, I know, but the point was that I wanted them a little bit more fair folk-like.

Ponderthought
2010-08-06, 07:26 AM
Shameless self promotion aside, I do really like your elves. Their pretty close to the feel I want.

See my elves, rather than being the servants of other fey, have become their masters. They fled their dying empire on the material plane a few millenia ago, and have become the lords of a sort of mirror plane, basically a sort of space slightly out of step with the waking world. Their long estrangement from the natural world has effected them deeply. The Fair Folk are strange, unpredictable and often insane, and almost completely amoral.

Needless to say humans are terrified of the Folk, who resent them for moving into their old world. So elves as a player race are out, and the feel of half elves (often the result of elven depredations) is much different.

So stat wise, im thinking LA+2? A big bag of special abilities, but not so much that they couldnt gain class levels reliably.

Thinker
2010-08-06, 10:12 AM
Fair Folk is rather vague. The idea of the fairy changed quite a bit as you cross Europe. Do you have a particular fairy you wanted to emulate? Do you just want general fey-like abilities, with a modular approach to apply them as individuals (similar to how many fey were perceived in folklore)? Are you really after the German elf, which descended from the Norse mythologies (and do you want it closer to those Norse stories than to the folklore)?

Common Fey Traits


Some means of invisibility, whether it be in twilight, proximity to fire, in natural settings, in sunlight, while not talking, etc.
Humanoid in appearance.
Varying degree of size (from tiny to quite large), though typically the same size as regular humans.
Have a single specific weakness, i.e. cold iron, rowan, various herbs, sunlight, etc.
If not outright malicious, always mischievous.
Live in caves, forests, underground, and in other places where people do not usually venture (though there is always a doorway that humans can use to enter their domain).
Willing to pay a bounty if aided by a human or as a ransom to be released by a human (the request is usually corrupted if it is driven by self interest).
Sometimes capable of flight (generally through use of insect-like wings and typically flying fey are insect-like in size).
Sometimes possessing great strength, independent of their size in relation to humans.
Sometimes able to shapeshift into similarly sized creatures and objects.
Sometimes capable of great feats of craftsmanship like cobbling, smithing, architecture, etc.
Sometimes able to read the thoughts of others.
Sometimes an omen of death or ill fortune.
Sometimes an omen of good fortune.
Sometimes replace human children with their own.
Sometimes devour people.
Sometimes lead humans into danger.
Sometimes protect humans from danger.
Sometimes lead humans home.
Sometimes able to affect time local to themselves or their homes.
Often able to make other things or people invisible via the same means they use to make themselves invisible.
Often able to call on aid from a specific animal or plant.
Often have an elixir that enhances their abilities like beer, herbs, wine, etc.
Often covet valuable objects such as coins, art, or weapons.
Often able to talk to the dead, angels, demons, and/or gods.



German-Elf Specific Traits


Humanoid in shape.
Small compared to humans, though sometimes insect-sized or, rarely, human sized.
Ruled by a king who is the same size as a human (similar to Santa Claus and his elves).
Often female.
Distinctions made depending on where they live (forest, caves, houses, cities, etc.).
Helpfulness toward humans depends on how close to humans they typically live (with house elves being most helpful).
Cannot cross into a place with a threshold protected with a specific symbol.
A pendant of the symbol that holds them at bay will protect the wearer from the elf magic, but will not from other things or creatures affected by that magic.
Can communicate with animals.
If offended, they will never rest in seeking vengeance proportional to the offense.
Can be appeased or have their favors repaid by leaving food (usually desserts and treats) for them at night.
Sometimes malevolent toward humans.
Sometimes a portent of death or ill omen.
Sometimes capable of flight.
Sometimes able to affect time local to themselves or their homes.
Usually fair haired.
Usually wear white.
Usually light-hearted in nature.



Norse Elf Traits


Look like humans.
Very good looking.
Light elves are fair haired and fair skinned ("bright as the sun").
Dark elves are dark haired and dark skinned ("dark as pitch").
Men can become an elf after death.
Stronger, swifter, and more nimble than humans.
Do not age.
Elf-human breeding is possible.
Innately powerful users of magic (even their half human offspring have some of this ability).
Excellent smiths.
Usually associated with medicine and fertility and are sought out to aid in problems with sickness, farming, livestock, or love.
Light elves and dark elves live in their own worlds separate from each other and from the "real world"
The dark elf world is an underground world of blackness.
Time moves differently in the elf worlds.
Can change their appearance.
Can have very human flaws.
Will often imbue their lovers with magical ability.
Fine food is often offered as an appeal for help or to appease a wrong.
Sometimes worshiped as minor gods.



I hope this helps. I read a lot of myths, religion, fairy tales, and folklore. I find it more interesting than most modern fantasy.

Ponderthought
2010-08-06, 10:39 AM
Thanks, this probably will help quite abit, ill have to save it somewhere.

I wanted to keep the base of the strandard elf and warp the details to be appropriate to the idea.

The elves im envisioning are kind of an amalgamation of alot of different cultures takes on the elf. A common theme being elves as a much more unpleasant folk than the typical dnd elf. Now that I think of it, the fae from the second Hellboy movie come to mind.

Dark elves on the other hand are going to be based largely on the Svartálfar, the Norse dark elves. Ive decided they are what remains of the elves that were left behind, embittered, avaricious survivors. Their going to be abit less otherworldly than their Fair cousins.

for reference, i decided to change up the elves in my setting after reading this article http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheFairFolk

Yora
2010-08-06, 10:48 AM
Those german elves have many aspects listed, that are more common to the swedish Tomte (like David the Gnome).

I wrote some things on a fair folk elf variant some weeks ago. Maybe something useful in that thread for you: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159946

Thinker
2010-08-06, 11:51 AM
Thanks, this probably will help quite abit, ill have to save it somewhere.

I wanted to keep the base of the strandard elf and warp the details to be appropriate to the idea.

The elves im envisioning are kind of an amalgamation of alot of different cultures takes on the elf. A common theme being elves as a much more unpleasant folk than the typical dnd elf. Now that I think of it, the fae from the second Hellboy movie come to mind.

Dark elves on the other hand are going to be based largely on the Svartálfar, the Norse dark elves. Ive decided they are what remains of the elves that were left behind, embittered, avaricious survivors. Their going to be abit less otherworldly than their Fair cousins.

for reference, i decided to change up the elves in my setting after reading this article http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheFairFolk

I neglected to mention that there are two types of dark elf. The second type is typically referred to as "black elves" and have more in common with dvergar than with other elves, which means they were probably originally the same creature. They were also a great deal more petty and surly than other elves.

It does seem like you're going for a unique take on elves in that you don't want Norse elves so much as jerks who happen to be Norse elf/folklore fey hybrids.


Those german elves have many aspects listed, that are more common to the swedish Tomte (like David the Gnome).


I wouldn't necessarily say "more common" so much as "just as common". The countries most influenced by the Norse tribes culture reacted to Christian influences in similar ways. It is no wonder that the creatures from their religions adapted to fill similar roles with similar abilities. It is also difficult to pinpoint where a story originated when talking about Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Anglo-Saxon Britain, etc.

I'll check out your thread, too. :smallsmile:

Human Paragon 3
2010-08-06, 11:55 AM
I did something like this in a campaign. It was very effective and the Elf I used really scared the players.

They had been warned that the Elves in this forest aren't like the elves they were accustomed to, and that they were so dangerous that most people never go into the forest, or if they do, they don't travel very deep into it. The party had to rescue a missing Vestile Virgin who had wandered into the forest to meet her love.

They found the tracks of the two lovers and followed them for some time. Then a set of hoof prints joined the tracks. Then all the tracks disappeared. Then woman's tracks came back, but not the man's.

Later they found the boy friend: turned inside out.

Needless to say, this creeped them out a bit.

Not long after this, a warm breeze started to shake the trees and the players heard the faint sound of bells. The air before them rippled and a tall figure stepped out onto the path. He was very pale, very fair, maybe three meters tall. He sat upon an enormous white stag. This was an Elf noble, not somebody to be trifled with.

He explained about how he took the two missing people into his realm, but got board with the woman's crying and sent her back. The man amused him for a time, but then tried to escape. This angered the Elf, so he turned him inside out and threw him back into his own world.

The players were... extremely polite to the Elf. The Elf could easily have killed them all, but instead decided to give them directions to where the woman was. He also undid a curse that was on one of the players without so much as a snap of his fingers. I didn't even stat out the Elf because combat was out of the question, but I probably would have given him wish as an at will SLA or something similar. Needless to say, the players were awed by this encounter. Unfortunately, this campaign ended prematurely, so I didn't get to explore the fair folk any farther.