PDA

View Full Version : 3.5 to pathfinder changes



derfenrirwolv
2010-08-06, 09:14 PM
Hello, after years of 3.5 my group is now enjoying pathfinder (sorcerers with flavor! reasons to be a base class!) I'm sort of the rules person for our group, so i've been going through and trying to see whats changed.

Does anyone have a list of 3.5---> pathfinder changes?

Some things i've noticed

You need to actively maintain the grapple on your turns.

Polymorph has been made sane.

Magic items can be worked on while adventuring, potions and scrolls at low levels have quicker crafting times.


It seems like fighters (one of the weaker classes) got one of the smaller power boosts, unless i'm missing something.

fryplink
2010-08-06, 09:22 PM
I've been looking into pathfinder recently too, A lot of the normally feature-free classes were given some individuality, I like the paired down skills.

It seems like its pretty much a massive variant rule set on 3.5

bartman
2010-08-06, 09:26 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136890

You're Welcome

Tyndmyr
2010-08-06, 10:38 PM
It seems like its pretty much a massive variant rule set on 3.5

This, pretty much. Some I like more than others. Skill system is nice. hp/sp on level up is nice. More feats is nice.

Invalidating more feats for melee by splitting up the existing feats was annoying. new grapple/etc rules are annoying, as you get monsters that literally cannot grapple another, identical monster of the same type. Balance issues didn't really change significantly.

derfenrirwolv
2010-08-06, 11:00 PM
Thanks, the list was helpful. Was there anything that was more in depth?




you get monsters that literally cannot grapple another, identical monster of the same type.

well there goes the species.

Hallavast
2010-08-06, 11:04 PM
well there goes the species.

There's always mounted combat, as it were.

Runeclaw
2010-08-07, 11:29 AM
It seems like fighters (one of the weaker classes) got one of the smaller power boosts, unless i'm missing something.

Druids were actively powered down, as a result of the aforementioned polypmorph fix. Not that they're hurting. Animal Companion rules also changed (imho streamlined).

PinkysBrain
2010-08-07, 11:39 AM
Animal companion rules might have been streamlined ... but the balance of the options is completely gone.

At level 7 you can have a pouncing large tiger or a bloody medium bear with less strength than the tiger. Pouncing was always the best choice ... but at least in the old days the bear was the same size and a fair bit stronger, so he could grapple better. No more, the tiger does everything best. On the SNA list it's the same thing, the bears got nerfed, the tiger got left alone.

There are a lot of areas in Pathfinder where there is one good choice and pages full of text wasted on brokenly underpowered content. Which was the case in 3e as well, but PF has turned the percentage of underpowered content up a notch.

Runeclaw
2010-08-08, 02:55 PM
It's certainly true that not all the Animal Companion choices are equally good.

And I have no idea why bears, of all animals, start as small and only upgrade to medium.

But I do like the fact that you can take any animal at level 1 and improve it as time goes on.

hamishspence
2010-08-08, 03:27 PM
That is rather odd. Even Sun Bears:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_bear

tend to be close to the border between Small and Medium.

true_shinken
2010-08-08, 08:34 PM
Animal companion rules might have been streamlined ... but the balance of the options is completely gone.


Balance? On Druids?! You've just got to be kidding, man.

derfenrirwolv
2010-08-08, 09:04 PM
I don't know if the animal companions were changed at all. The 3.5 phb just didn't bother to mention that, as animals, they're entitled to tricks, feats, and skills.

Although i must say that my mounted dwarven druid is loving the fact that his pony has acrobatics.

PinkysBrain
2010-08-09, 01:50 PM
Balance? On Druids?! You've just got to be kidding, man.
I mean the balance of druids against other druids :)

Person_Man
2010-08-09, 03:09 PM
Saph's handbook which bartman provided a link for is the most comprehensive you're going to get.

Having played both, I can tell you my general experience is:

1) The rules are a mixed bag. Some things are interesting and/or smart game design and/or fun to use, and others aren't. People disagree about what these things are. A lot.

2) Each time you wish to use a monster or NPC from a non-Pathfinder source, you need to re-write it's stat block. You need to calculate CMB, CMD, Skills, and sometimes feats, racial abilities, and spells/spell-like abilities. This can be very time consuming, and for a system that markets itself as backwards compatible it's kinda a big deal that it's not backwards compatible without significant effort.

3) All of their fiddly changes basically failed to create balance. The Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, and Druid are still much more powerful then everyone else. The Monk still sucks. Polymorph is still broken (although slightly less so). They basically just give you new options to play with.

4) There are a lot of unintended consequences, especially if you include non-Pathfinder material in your Pathfinder games. For example, they nerfed size bonuses. This makes things like Expansion and Powerful Build and Half-Oge much weaker, and the Incarnate, Totemist, Marshal, Factotum (assuming you allow their bonuses to Str checks to apply to CMB and CMD).

5) The Paizo boards are rabidly pro-Pathfinder. This is to be expected. But mild criticisms are often met with harsh rebukes. So if you want to have a meaningful discussion about whether something was well written or useful, you pretty much have to do it somewhere other then the official Pathfinder forums.

On balance, I would say that by itself Pathfinder is a vast improvement over core 3.5. But if you already have access to 3.5 and a bunch of supplements, it's not really worth it.

Noedig
2010-08-11, 10:25 PM
Could someone PLEASE explain the differences between these two?
Am I insane, or are the nearly identical?

bartman
2010-08-11, 10:30 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136890

hmm, Deja Vu...http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163310

Roel
2010-08-12, 08:51 AM
I have to say pathfinder is more new-player friendly. The book is written well and more comprehensive than 3.5 (imo). My group and I are playing pathfinder for a year now, and happily so.

derfenrirwolv
2010-08-13, 02:12 PM
Good role players can have an awesome session if the system is bunny's and burrows. A good system does make it easier though.

If you're just starting out i would recommend pathfinder. Its a little more balanced than 3.5, but still has the flavor of D&D. 4.0 just tastes like cardboard. The character is the one made by the books.. not by you. The main advantage would be that 3.5 has a billioin books out with options that can be overwhelming. Pathfinder is (mostly) in two books.


I would let people make their own characters. It never feels like its YOUR character to me when someone else makes it. Learning to make the character also teaches a lot about the system during the process, and you can always let someone get a new character or make changes latter.

Starbuck_II
2010-08-13, 02:20 PM
You can no longer Sneak attack with Splash weapons.
In 3.5, a Lv 1 Rogue could throw flask of acid for 2d6 acid damage (1d6 acid + 1d6 Sneak attack acid damage) plus 1 damage splash damage.
This was useful as it was a touch attack.

If fitting undead, throw holy water (though you'd need a way to sneak attack undead).

Hurlbut
2010-08-13, 05:00 PM
You can sneak attack most undead in PF however. Oozes and Elementals are immune to sneak damage. If a PF creature doesn't say it's immune to sneak attack or sneak attack is inapplicable to it, then it's fair game for sneak attack.

Paul H
2010-08-15, 09:46 PM
Hi

I believe PF still keeps the flavour of 3.5, but deals with situations differently.

Some of the Prestige Classes, like Dragon Disciple, actually work now. Though base classes get so much you really have to think if the PrC is worth it.

As for the complaint about no sneak attacks with splash weapons - I'm not sure if that's true, but there is the Alchemist (mad bomber) class. It can use Mutagens to boost self, lob bombs (splash weapons, which can crit), etc. You even add Int mod to damage!

Some ideas have sneaked in from AD&D 2nd Ed. Eg. Fighters get bonus hit/dam with weapon groups.

There is an SRD available free.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/downloads

Hope this helps
Paul H