Most evil thing in D&D.

[Scarey Nerd]

What, in your opinions, is the most evil thing in D&D? A friend of mine suggested Mind Flayers, or Ilsensine specifically, and I was torn between Asmodeus or just a Dalek Derro.

Thoughts?

[Andion Isurand]

Pun Pun
Omnificer
Twice Betrayer of Shar

[Desril]

Destroying a being's soul.

[Xefas]

Well, I believe the Obyrinths were the first evil, if that counts for anything.

[ex cathedra]

Serpent Kingdoms? Candles of Invocation? The CR system?

The designers?

There are a lot of relevant answers, in my opinion.

[olentu]

What, in your opinions, is the most evil thing in D&D? A friend of mine suggested Mind Flayers, or Ilsensine specifically, and I was torn between Asmodeus or just a Dalek Derro.

Thoughts?

The alignment system.

[arrowhen]

The DM, obviously.

[Zen Master]

Humans, by far.

[Origomar]

Housecats, how else are they able to kill so many commoners, secret demonic rituals thats how.

[Scarey Nerd]

The alignment system.

Enjoy your internet good sir!

[Kobold-Bard]

A Demilich Illithid Blackguard illithid Savant riding a 1/2 Fiend Beholder Mage who is he cohort of the child of Asmodeus and Lolth.

[Lord Raziere]

the adventurers. obviously.

[Optimator]

A Demilich Illithid Blackguard illithid Savant riding a 1/2 Fiend Beholder Mage who is he cohort of the child of Asmodeus and Lolth.
Probably this.

[miibtp]

The Tomb Of Horrors (1st edition dnd)

eg: sphere of annihilation in the demons mouth...

[Morithias]

Probably the necrotic termination spell. It's not an evil spell, which is ironic considering if you fail your save against it it DESTROYS YOUR SOUL!

Yeah, not even wish and miracle can bring you back.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Necrocarnate is pretty bad, torturing pure soul energy for your own nefarious purposes.

Tharizdun is pretty bad. Even other evil deities keep him under lock and key.

[olelia]

Truenamer/Monk/Samurai :smalleek:

[oxybe]

Truenamer/Monk/Samurai :smalleek:

Truenamer/Monk/Samurai/Healer

[Xallace]

That crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a), awakened, with levels of reaping mauler, leading the Tucker tribe of kobolds.

And he's got a mustache-goatee combo, so you know he's up to no good.

[devinkowalczyk]

Atropal Scion
(its a god, an evil god, a baby, a dead baby, an undead baby, a baby god and so much more!)


or my wizard that designed a spell that burns souls to increase its size
so it kills 30 people, it grows 30 feet. in the center of a city of a million?...

[The Glyphstone]

Atropal Scion < full Atropal.:smallbiggrin:

[hamishspence]

True- Atropals have Regeneration, whereas all other undead can't (since it normally requires a CON score).

They are both pretty horrid-looking:

Atropal:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44165_C5_atropal.jpg

Atropal Scion:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/libris_gallery/84734.jpg

[Furnok]

My Dm's DM who has been going strong for 20+ years, I sat in on one adventure and that man is pure evil.

[Snake-Aes]

A Demilich Illithid Blackguard illithid Savant riding a 1/2 Fiend Beholder Mage who is he cohort of the child of Asmodeus and Lolth.

You forgot the levels in Incarnate.

[The Glyphstone]

True- Atropals have Regeneration, whereas all other undead can't (since it normally requires a CON score).

They are both pretty horrid-looking:

Atropal:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44165_C5_atropal.jpg

Atropal Scion:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/libris_gallery/84734.jpg

The scion is more gross-looking, but I'm still going to go with the one that can strangle you to death with its own umbilical cord (of the gods).:smallwink:

[hamishspence]

The SRD version of the Atropal is rather odd- the main statblock says it does 2d6 Con drain with a touch attack, but the description below the statblock says it does 5 points of Con drain.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal

I checked and the EPH version is the same.

Even the Epic Handbook errata doesn't clear it up.

[Eldan]

Well, I believe the Obyrinths were the first evil, if that counts for anything.

That should actually be the Baernoloth.

[hamishspence]

Or at least, they claim to be the progenitors of the obyriths and the ancient baatorians

4E Demonomicon has a slightly different take- what were yugoloths in previous editions are now simply ancient demons that tend to be devoted to Tharizdun- possibly created by him as servants. And baernoloths are present in the book.

Obyriths in that are from another universe- it was they that projected the shard now known as the Heart of the Abyss into the D&D world, and it was Tharizdun planting it in the Elemental Chaos that caused the Abyss to come into being and allowed the obyriths to enter the Abyss.

[The Tygre]

'Sides, everyone knows, cutter; ya' can't trust 'loth far as you can throw em'.

[Kaww]

Dice - they do EVIL stuff.
Fear stacking is evil?

[Spider_Jerusalem]

Complete Champion.

But tricky and nasty players, a troubled DM with lots of time and Love's Pain (from BoVD) get close.

...and people who buy ladders to divide them and sell those as 10 feet poles for unlimited money. Now THAT's evil.

[arguskos]

Or at least, they claim to be the progenitors of the obyriths and the ancient baatorians

4E Demonomicon has a slightly different take- what were yugoloths in previous editions are now simply ancient demons that tend to be devoted to Tharizdun- possibly created by him as servants. And baernoloths are present in the book.
4e has the horrible tendency to twist the given lore around so that it doesn't really resemble the established lore up until then. It's an unreliable source, at best.

Or, in other words, stop yer lying like a 'loth, basher.


'Sides, everyone knows, cutter; ya' can't trust 'loth far as you can throw em'.
Eh, da 'loths never shed da truth of a thing. Dealing wit em, yer gonna get xaeaxed. Zip off what's I say.

[hamishspence]

Its moved a bit more toward 3E, than it was when it first came out. At least obyriths actually got a mention in it.

[Wings of Peace]

Well, I believe the Obyrinths were the first evil, if that counts for anything.

Nay, t'was the Baernoloths, who coincidentally are my vote for the most evil thing in D&D.

[Devils_Advocate]

Well, it's surely far from the most evil, but mental domination -- magically compelling a being to serve you against its will -- deserves mention. There's a significant contrast to be made to simply magically charming creatures, which just makes them like you and trust you so that they voluntarily help you within reason.

Now, charms are a severe enough violation of personal autonomy and just plain potentially dangerous enough that using them (except maybe in self-defense) could conceivably carry the death penalty in a fairly permissive society. To put that in perspective, charms are pretty much worse than raping an unconscious person (since there you're only violating someone's body). And yet, domination can make charms look positively humane in comparison. It's more like raping a conscious person.

And even that is, again, surely far from the most evil thing that one could do to someone. Powerful beings of pure, unmitigated evil would do things so much worse than torturing people to death that it isn't even funny, and indeed all that keeps them from being utterly horrifying is the knowledge that they're fictional.

One might be tempted to describe the evilest monsters' activities as things that even the fiends blanch at. And to an extent, the fiends do, but only due to the thought of such torments being inflicted on them. Beyond that, they'll if anything look up to entities like these, like angels look up to beings of stupendous goodness.

So... yeah. Normal demons and devils tend to like torture and to engage in it given the opportunity, which is what makes the lower planes so unpleasant a place for a soul to be sent to. The most malicious beings in the multiverse are worse than demons and devils (or most of them, at any rate), and probably fairly powerful for being so metaphysically close to fundamental Evil.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Metamagic reducers.

Actually, I love thinking about these sorts of questions. Demons and devils really ought to be higher on the list, being made of pure evil and all, but they've always struck me as far too classical, cackling crackpots who exist solely to steal souls and run back to their respective hells. Not so much evil as petty.

Big fan of the Khen-Zai, myself. An ancient, super-intelligent race of emotionless (YMMV) wizards whose philosophy cannot allow the existence of the divine. When faced with the obvious challenge to that philosophy (a.k.a. that Gods exist, duh), instead of working to correct their incorrect premise, they've chosen the only remaining rational choice: annihilate the Gods, and any being that worships them. Creatures so alien that looking upon their faces leads to madness. Beings that work to purge all emotions except hate from their minds, and bearing the collective intelligence and raw power that, as a race, they could accomplish near anything. How much more Dalek can you get?

The Formians are also full of villainous potential. They aren't out to destroy all life, or end the universe, or any of that trite nonsense. They aren't motivated by hate, or vengeance, just the soulless need to expand, to make everything else in the cosmos into a part of their hive. They will use any means available to accomplish this goal - domination, enslavement, extermination - not because they are "evil", but because there is no thought for other beings. Anything that is not a Formian is outside of the Formian mindset. They simply can't care for any other creature, it is how they are made, how their minds function. You cannot reason with a Formian. To it, you are raw materials to be harvested for the good of the hive, or discarded if you prove an inefficient investment of the Formian's efforts.

[Sir_Elderberry]

The reasons demons/devils don't come across as evil is because it's part of their nature. You almost can't feel like a demon is really despicable because it emerged from a plane of infinite hatred with a built-in evil mind. Real evil requires the free will to choose your path.

[KiltedGrappler]

An Old School DM that you owe $100 to.

[Vantharion]

The Formians are also full of villainous potential. They aren't out to destroy all life, or end the universe, or any of that trite nonsense. They aren't motivated by hate, or vengeance, just the soulless need to expand, to make everything else in the cosmos into a part of their hive. They will use any means available to accomplish this goal - domination, enslavement, extermination - not because they are "evil", but because there is no thought for other beings. Anything that is not a Formian is outside of the Formian mindset. They simply can't care for any other creature, it is how they are made, how their minds function. You cannot reason with a Formian. To it, you are raw materials to be harvested for the good of the hive, or discarded if you prove an inefficient investment of the Formian's efforts.

I love Formians.
I love their Clockwork world.
I introduced a lousy Formian hive with more or less savage humanized formians. (Read Goblins/Kobolds), and later I'm going to go into the fact that their queen was more or less imbued with humanoid essence so she isn't as mindlessly Formian. Think of the episode of Dr. Who when there was the Human Dalek.
I'm going to enjoy it when my players learn what Formians really 'are'...
And heres to hoping my players don't read these forums!
Warning: <3.5 v 4.0 rant>
I would say the evilist thing in my mind is WotC actions towards 4E.
A while ago Scrabble Names came out, in which you were allowed to use names of people and places in the game. People were furious. I saw no reason. You didn't HAVE to buy Scrabble Names. You didnt NEED to adapt, you didn't even NEED to follow the Names rules.

One of my friends likened this to me disliking 4th Edition.

I disagreed, explaining that Scrabble in no way forced players to advance to the Scrabble Names edition, that Scrabble Original was still being printed and players could choose which game they wanted to play without needing to hunt down used & expensive books off the internet. WotC chose to recall all 3.5 content so that they could get more players into 4E. WotC didn't hold faith in their new product so they removed the alternative (3.5). They could forced players to adapt to an honestly inferior (In my mindset) product. They changed the lore, the gameplay, the roleplay heavily. They killed a product, a growing idea and past time in favor of making more money.
I think that is evil... "Murder of the living is tragic, but murder of the idea is unforgivable." (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardsearch.php?singlesearch=ANNUL)(A magic card)</3.5 v 4.0 rant>

Oh, Negative levels and disease/poisons that need a single specific herbal cure that you will spend 2 game sessions getting. Fun>Rules

[Devils_Advocate]

Big fan of the Khen-Zai, myself. An ancient, super-intelligent race of emotionless (YMMV) wizards whose philosophy cannot allow the existence of the divine. When faced with the obvious challenge to that philosophy (a.k.a. that Gods exist, duh), instead of working to correct their incorrect premise, they've chosen the only remaining rational choice: annihilate the Gods, and any being that worships them.
They sound a bit like the Krikkiters in Life, the Universe, and Everything, of whom it is acknowledged "well, you know, they're just a bunch of real sweet guys, you know, who just happen to want to kill everybody."

"On the way back they sang a number of tuneful and reflective songs on the subjects of peace, justice, morality, culture, sport, family life and the obliteration of all other life forms."


WotC chose to recall all 3.5 content so that they could get more players into 4E. WotC didn't hold faith in their new product so they removed the alternative (3.5). They could forced players to adapt to an honestly inferior (In my mindset) product. They changed the lore, the gameplay, the roleplay heavily. They killed a product, a growing idea and past time in favor of making more money.
Is that any different than their treatment of 2E? (That's not a rhetorical question; I honestly wouldn't know.)

If it's not, then I imagine that more than a few grognards would say that you're getting your comeuppance for supporting the murder of AD&D.

[Shalist]

Just like in real life, the most evil thing in D 'n D is women. There's even a mathematical proof:

http://www.plig.net/things/pictures/tn/evil-women.med.jpg

I suppose a distant second would be the BoVD spell, 'eternity of torture.' I've included a description in the spoiler, since it's nearly impossible to guess what it does just from the spell name.
Eternity of Torture
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Pain 9
Target: One creature
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
The subject’s body is twisted and warped, wracked forever with excruciating pain. The subject is rendered helpless, but—as long as the spell continues— it is sustained and has no need for food, drink, or air. The subject does not age—all the better to ensure a true eternity of unimaginable torture.

The subject takes 1 point of drain to each ability score each day until all scores are reduced to 0 (except Constitution, which stays at 1). The subject cannot heal or regenerate. Lastly, the subject is completely unaware of its surroundings, insensate to anything but the excruciating pain. A single Fortitude saving throw is all that stands between a target and this horrible spell.

And 'bestow curse--sanity' (or some +wis/cha items) would keep them appreciative of their circumstances for æons after you've forgotten they even existed in whatever deep, dark hole they were sealed in.

[ghost_warlock]

Is that any different than their treatment of 2E? (That's not a rhetorical question; I honestly wouldn't know.)

If it's not, then I imagine that more than a few grognards would say that you're getting your comeuppance for supporting the murder of AD&D.

WotC didn't really publish 2e, they bought out TSR when it was floundering and proceeded to produce 3rd edition. 2e was basically killed* by TSR going bankrupt. Can't really fault WotC with wanting to do their own thing with the name once they'd bought it. Similarly, you can't really fault them for wanting to go a different direction with it later by making 4e. They own the name, they're within their rights to slap it on anything they want.

* that is, ceased being printed by the parent company. "Killed" isn't entirely accurate.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I suppose a distant second would be the BoVD spell, 'eternity of torture.' I've included a description in the spoiler, since it's nearly impossible to guess what it does just from the spell name.
Eternity of Torture
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Pain 9
Target: One creature
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
The subject’s body is twisted and warped, wracked forever with excruciating pain. The subject is rendered helpless, but—as long as the spell continues— it is sustained and has no need for food, drink, or air. The subject does not age—all the better to ensure a true eternity of unimaginable torture.

The subject takes 1 point of drain to each ability score each day until all scores are reduced to 0 (except Constitution, which stays at 1). The subject cannot heal or regenerate. Lastly, the subject is completely unaware of its surroundings, insensate to anything but the excruciating pain. A single Fortitude saving throw is all that stands between a target and this horrible spell.

And 'bestow curse--sanity' (or some +wis/cha items) would keep them appreciative of their circumstances for æons after you've forgotten they even existed in whatever deep, dark hole they were sealed in.
Wait... the Saving Throw is for "partial?" So if you make the save you only take half an eterniy of torture? :smallconfused:

[Tyndmyr]

Can't really fault WotC with wanting to do their own thing with the name once they'd bought it. Similarly, you can't really fault them for wanting to go a different direction with it later by making 4e. They own the name, they're within their rights to slap it on anything they want.

Yes. Yes I can fault them for that.

They have the legal rights to do that, yes. That doesn't make it a good decision. I could legally quit my job, give away all my money, and become homeless, but it'd generally be considered less than intelligent.

[Faleldir]

Everything that was new when you, the person reading this post, were 12 years old was made purely for art and to make you happy. The concept of profit did not exist.

[DMGreg]

Kender.

Runner-up is Ashardalon, a Red Dragon who replaced his heart with that of a Balor and fed directly on the souls of the unborn at the Bastion of Unborn Souls. One of my all-time favorite WotC modules, Bastion of Broken Souls, featured him.

[braxsus]

Evil is as Evil does
Power does not Equal evil
Evil acts, Evil intentions

But Good\Evil is relative..which is why the Alignment system is broke

My biggest pet peeve..Players who think being evil means back stabbing and killing party members by default..those players don't last for long in my games

One of my favorite fictional Evil characters is Hannibal "The Cannibal" Lector, chaotic evil, but will give civility when civility is received

I force players who want to play evil to create a back story, more so then Good

I believe sentient natural life Alignment is Neutral with Good tendancies...movement to the extremeities of alignment require proportional explanation

[Sir_Chivalry]

The BURNING HATE!!!! His clerics step on your face!! With cleats I'm pretty sure!! In scale mail!!

Sorry had to:smallredface: