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Incorrect
2010-08-08, 07:02 AM
Hi all
In a couple of hours I am going to join a Werewolf game, for the first time. I am joining a group of people that I dont know, and I assume that they all know each other, and maybe have played before I join.
Luckily the GM will help me and another new player create our characters.

With this group I want to play something that dosent steal the spotlight in fights, but helps the others. Maybe by some sort of "buffing". Can anyone give hints to how I accomplish this?
Any skills or tactics to make good use of?

I'm just looking for general tips to what direction I should go with this character. Thanks in advance for any help.

(If this was D&D I would play a buffer/healer cleric with this group)

Satyr
2010-08-08, 07:03 AM
{Scrubbed}

Incorrect
2010-08-08, 07:06 AM
To my knowledge its Forsaken.
Is it much of a difference?

I know absolutely nothing about werewolf, though I have played a bit of Vampire and Mage

The Rose Dragon
2010-08-08, 07:15 AM
Ignore Satyr. He is a bitter old fellow when it comes to classical vs. new. :smalltongue:

That said, setting-wise, there is a huge difference. If you've played both Vampire: the Masquerade and Vampire: the Requiem, you'll notice the distinction: the moods and themes of the games are completely different. I've never played Apocalypse, but I assume it's nothing like Forsaken.

There is also a huge difference mechanically. While the basics is the same (roll a number of d10s equal to Attribute + Ability, count the successes), there are a lot of differences in the details.

Forsaken is a good game with a good setting, as long as you don't go in expecting Apocalypse.

Project_Mayhem
2010-08-08, 07:15 AM
Real Werewolf (Apocalypse) or ripp-off version (Forsaken)?

Your Mileage may vary (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YourMileageMayVary)

Some of us prefer NWoD

Selrahc
2010-08-08, 07:52 AM
Forsaken (which is in my opinion the better game) is all about defending pack and territory.

Werewolves are pretty easy to play, because they are very tough to kill. They have an innate regeneration which means minor wounds will roll off them like rain. They can heal more serious wounds with essence, which means you can go into dangerous situations and get out alive as long as silver isn't involved.

The other main feature is the ability to change shape. Shapeshifted werewolves in monstrous forms make decent combatants even without any combat skills. They also have lunacy, a defence that means regular humans are almost a non-threat. Any human who sees a shapeshifted werewolf runs away in fear.

The other big ability of werewolves is the ability to shift between the world and the spirit world at locuses. This lets them escape enemies or lay ambushes. It's also where you can find essence to harvest. Keeping the spirit world in order is one of the primary jobs of a werewolf.

The morality meter for werewolves is harmony, which is fairly forgiving compared to most other meters. You can kill humans and spirits if necessary, without your moral code driving you insane. Killing werewolves, killing needlessly or using silver are all big no-nos though.

The supernatural powers werewolves can learn are fairly lacklustre. Generally useful but nothing to really concern yourself with overly as a new player. Shapeshifting and regeneration are the important things. Although hopefully at least one member of your group will take some powers related to dealing with spirits.

The main antagonists are the Pure and the Spirits. Humans and other supernatural beings can also feature as enemies, but will be a little unusual.

The Pure are rival werewolves, who generally outnumber you heavily. They're pretty much insane cultists with a burning hatred for the Forsaken. You can intimidate them into leaving you alone, but relations will never get any better than that. If they see you as weak, they'll seek to benefit.

Spirits can be friends or enemies. They represent concepts or things, and are empowered by them. A death spirit may be empowered by a murdered in the real world, but then a rat spirit can be empowered by watching a rat eat some cheese. Some can be worked with and become friends, others need to be removed. They reside mostly in the spirit world, but crossing over to the real world is something of a rush for them. They may possess mortals, or inspire them to do horrible things. Binding and controlling spirits to aid you is a big part of the game, but hopefully one of your fellow players will take care of that.


Combat focussed werewolves are almost always useful, but basically make a character that you like. It's almost always good to take a few dots in brawl though so that Garou form becomes properly useful. A bit of spirit lore(occult), sneakiness(stealth) or location knowledge(survival for a more rural adventure, streetwise for urban) will also pretty much never go to waste.

Edge
2010-08-08, 08:01 AM
Never underestimate the power of Rituals or non-combat Gifts. It's also a necessity for someone in the pack to be at least half-decent with the former if the pack is to be effective/get stronger supernatural powers. The latter, whilst rarely instant-win buttons, can be exceptionally useful.


The supernatural powers werewolves can learn are fairly lacklustre. Generally useful but nothing to really concern yourself with overly as a new player. Shapeshifting and regeneration are the important things.

I couldn't disagree more. Sure, they've got nothing on Mage spells, but they can be very useful and, more importantly, fun: Weather 1 lets you call up a dramatic wind whenever the hell you want, no roll and no cost.

Incorrect
2010-08-08, 08:02 AM
Wauw Selrahc, thank you for the write up. That really helps explain a lot of things. Youre the man!

It looks like brawl in garou form is the most effective form of combat?

Jornophelanthas
2010-08-08, 08:04 AM
While I have never played Werewolf: the Forsaken, I do own (and have read) the rulebook. Additionally, I have played Werewolf: the Apocalypse extensively.

If this is your first game, don't try to comprehend all the rules and flavour all at once. Choose an Auspice and Tribe in consultation with the Storyteller, and read up on that specific Auspice and that specific Tribe, as well as the Gifts you are allowed to choose as a starting character. Also read up on (the basics of) Rituals, as this may or may not fit your chosen role.

First and foremost, though, you should know that any Werewolf game (whether Forsaken or Apocalypse) revolves around the pack. All player characters in the group share a mystical bond that makes them instinctual allies against whatever adversaries the Storyteller might introduce. Your Werewolf character may not know the other characters well, and may not even like them, but you all share a willingness to risk your lives for each other. It's in many ways like a small family of very aggressive people who spend too much time together and consider everyone else "outsiders".

Of course, everyone may still have their private moments of spotlight, but in Werewolf everyone's loyalty is to the pack first, and to themselves second. You are allowed to have a personal agenda, but Werewolf is a game that revolves very much around group effort, so the group goals usually outweigh the individual goals. (Of course, you jointly determine these group goals.)

Packs are also not inherently democratic, instead frequently relying on the unconditional leadership of the one most able to deal with the situation at hand (as determined by Auspice or Tribe). Still, this is up to the players. If they want to let one person be the unconditional alpha all the time, or if they want to vote democratically on all their decisions, it's their call.

In conclusion, choose a role (Auspice & Tribe) that suits you, contribute to the pack and don't go against the pack. Make sure you know your own role well and don't worry about the other roles; each of your fellow players should fill you in on his or her own role, likely even in character. And have fun.

Edge
2010-08-08, 08:08 AM
It looks like brawl in garou form is the most effective form of combat?

Problem is that Gauru form (Garou is the name for the race of Old World of Darkness werewolves) only lasts for a short number of turns: Stamina + Primal Urge, off the top of my head. A starting character's Stamina is likely to only be 1 or 2, and Primal Urge will only be 1 unless you want to intentionally restrict yourself with Merits.

If someone in your group does take Rituals, Weaponry can be a worthwhile long-term investment, as they will probably eventually be able to create klaive fetishes (spirit-empowered weapons) for you. This can, of course, be exceptionally useful. And you can still use them in Gauru.

Another bit of advice: take the time to look over the Lexicon in the introduction to the Werewolf book, or at least memorise the page number. It will help you understand a lot more things, as the First Tongue gets used a lot in the game.

Incorrect
2010-08-08, 08:21 AM
Thank you, everyone, for your advice.
You have been great, and may now derail the thread into an edition war if you please :smallwink:

Kurald Galain
2010-08-08, 08:50 AM
...
I'm going to use Selrahc's text to outline similarities and differences between WTF and WTA.

Apocalypse (not going to argue about which is the better game) is all about defending the world. It is also about fighting an losing battle against overwhelming enemies, and about tragedy and suffering.

Werewolves are pretty easy to play, because they are very tough to kill. They have an innate regeneration which means minor wounds will roll off them like rain.

The other main feature is the ability to change shape. Shapeshifted werewolves in monstrous forms make very good combatants even without any combat skills. They also have delirium, a defence that means regular humans are almost a non-threat. Most humans who see a shapeshifted werewolf in battle form run away in fear, or go catatonic with shock, and will forget the specifics of what happens. This is good because by werewolf law, humans are not allowed to discover that werewolves exist. Note that if angered enough, you will change into battle form and generally slaughter whatever it was that angered you, and possibly whatever else was standing nearby.

The other big ability of werewolves is the ability to shift between the world and the spirit world anywhere, although it is easier in natural places, and next to impossible in e.g. a laboratory. This lets them escape enemies or lay ambushes, although some enemies can follow. Finding allies in the spirit world is important for most werewolves.

The morality meter for werewolves is honor, glory, and wisdom, which are fairly complex compared to most other meters. The moral code is called the Litany, the biggest no-nos involve being discovered by humans, eating human flesh, not obeying your leader, and mating with other werewolves. Of course, each tribe has a different opinion on which part of the Litany is more important, and which parts should be ignored as much as possible. An important point about the game is that morality is Not Easy.

The supernatural powers werewolves can learn are fairly versatile and useful, starting with things like animal speech, invisibility, sense evil, conjuring elements, and opening locks at will. Higher level powers may involve shapeshifting into a fire elemental, calling down lightning, or summoning huge monstrosities to your aid. Hopefully at least one member of your group will take some powers related to dealing with spirits.

The main antagonists are the fallen werewolves known as Black Spiral Dancers, as well as the human faction known as the Technocracy (who are, largely, in charge of the world). However, werewolves are well-known for their infighting. Other supernatural beings can also feature as enemies, particularly vampires and mages.

The Black Spiral Dancers are rival werewolves, who are outnumbered heavily. They're pretty much insane cultists with a burning hatred for the normal Garou. You will kill them at sight, no quarter given. They will either kill you at sight, or capture you and convert you to one of them.

Spirits can be friends or enemies. They represent concepts or things, and are empowered by them. A death spirit may be empowered by a murdered in the real world, but then a rat spirit can be empowered by giving a rat some cheese. Some can be worked with and become friends, others need to be removed. They reside mostly in the spirit world, but crossing over to the real world is something of a rush for them. They may possess mortals, or inspire them to do horrible things. Binding and controlling spirits to aid you is a big part of the game, but hopefully one of your fellow players will take care of that.

Combat focused werewolves are almost always useful, but basically make a character that you like. It's almost always good to take a few dots in brawl though so that Crinos form becomes properly useful. A bit of spirit lore(occult), sneakiness(stealth) or location knowledge(survival for a more rural adventure, streetwise for urban) will also pretty much never go to waste. More points in rage will make you stronger, but also make you more likely to fly into a frenzy.

Kish
2010-08-08, 08:53 AM
the Technocracy

Erm, hey. You mean Pentex?

(Calling Pentex a human faction is...questionable...and not mentioning the Wyrm at all mystifies me, but I'm much more confused by the co-option of the main villainous organization of Mage: the Ascension here.)

Kurald Galain
2010-08-08, 09:00 AM
Erm, hey. You mean Pentex?
Both, actually. I suppose it depends on your GM which is the main enemy.

Pentex is a group of (mostly) humans possessed by corruption spirits, whose sole goal is to lay waste to the world at large, and who enjoy pollution, destruction, and corrupting more humans. For instance, they would create a factory solely to pollute the surrounding environment, or a fast food chain that slowly turns its customers into monsters. They tend to cooperate with the Spiral Dancers, and represent The Wyrm.

The technocracy is a group of (mostly) enlightened humans who wish to create an ordered and civilized world. They are indeed the main enemies from Mage: the Ascension; they have been in charge more or less since the age of renaissance, and their ideal world has no place for supernatural creatures. This means that if you break the veil (i.e. show yourself to humans) they will likely find out and send in the Men In Black, or their combat troops - and they have vastly more resources than you do. They represent The Weaver.

And the werewolves themselves represent The Wyld, and can easily be their own worst enemy because of their perennial infighting and rage. The three spirits of Wyld (creation), Weaver (order) and Wyrm (destruction) form the basis of werewolf cosmology.

Garou are unified in their hatred of the Wyrm, although their methods of dealing with it vary, and at least one tribe (the Uktena) really knows more about the Wyrm than is good for them. Indeed, Sense Wyrm is probably the most common werewolf gift, and a potential cause for frenzy. Garou are not unified in their opinion of the Weaver, which can vary from open cooperation (e.g. the Glass Walker tribe) to outright wanting to kill all humans (some of the more radical Red Talons). The good thing about weaver agents is that they can be reasoned with. The bad thing about them is that they are almost universally well organized and well equipped.

Aroka
2010-08-08, 09:05 AM
Pentex is a group of (mostly) humans possessed by corruption spirits, whose sole goal is to lay waste to the world at large, and who enjoy pollution, destruction, and corrupting more humans.

... Hexxus (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/hexxus.jpg/)?

Kish
2010-08-08, 09:28 AM
Both, actually. I suppose it depends on your GM which is the main enemy.
[...]The technocracy is

...a Mage group. They barely exist by default in a pure Werewolf: the Apocalyse game, and the most important thing about them is the Syndicate's ties to Pentex. To what extent they do exist, they certainly don't control the world, any more than Pentex controls the world in a pure Mage: the Ascension game (where the most important thing about it is its ties to the Syndicate). (I much prefer crossover games myself, but that doesn't mean Mage groups getting center stage is to be assumed by default in a Werewolf game!) I have no clue why you would list them ahead of, say, the Camarilla as an adversary in a Werewolf game, other than a guess that you personally prefer Mage to Vampire, and perhaps also to Werewolf (definitely to pure Werewolf).

Terraoblivion
2010-08-08, 09:36 AM
Think Captain Planet villains written for horror and then you have Pentex. How they remain as financially viable as the books insist remains a mystery. Seriously i read both Subsidiaries: A Guide to Pentex and that book about the Wyrm written under the Black Dog imprint and i still haven't got the foggiest clue how Pentex can afford making armies of monsters, pollutants to be dumped around the world and products that kill the customers and still have the most profitable companies as their subsidiaries. It will forever be a mystery i guess.

And i can assure you, Kurald Galain, the Glass Walkers are not openly cooperating with the Weaver. Only the Cyber Dogs faction did and they were outlawed, banned and largely eradicated by Elizabeth Genereader, Yuri Konietzko and their respective packs and subordinates. That doesn't mean the Glass Walkers don't use technology a lot and haven't severed most ties to the Wyld, which they consider rather dangerous and scary too, but they are hardly friends of the Weaver.

But to be perfectly honest, lots of the fluff of WtA didn't make a whole lot of sense if you started thinking too much about it. Based on my relatively small experience with oWoD systems not WtA and VtM, it had the weakest, most inconsistent fluff of the entire line. Which is quite impressive given the retcons VtM experienced.

Kurald Galain
2010-08-08, 09:42 AM
...a Mage group. They barely exist by default in a pure Werewolf: the Apocalyse game,
"Governments" are the third major group of antagonists (after fomori and pentex) in my Werewolf book, in the sense of "ordinary humans using ordinary technology and ordinary SWAT teams" - which is pretty much exactly what the Technocracy is.

In other words, yes, making a grand display of supernatural power in the middle of a city will get the police on your tail, and possibly the army, regardless of whether you're a werewolf or a magus.

And kindly don't make such assumptions about what settings I like or dislike solely based on the appearance that I might play them differently than you do.

Kish
2010-08-08, 09:49 AM
"Governments" are the third major group of antagonists (after fomori and pentex) in my Werewolf book, in the sense of "ordinary humans using ordinary technology and ordinary SWAT teams" - which is pretty much exactly what the Technocracy is.

Except the part where they totally aren't, being a group of mages who interact with governments which are made up of Sleepers in ways detailed in the Mage books--that is, they do in Mage and crossver games, not in pure Werewolf games, of course. But hey. I find it really hard to believe anyone who doesn't favor a massively Mage-centric WoD reads "human governments" in the Werewolf antagonists as code for "the Technocracy."

Thank you, however, for the acknowledgment that Pentex, which you initially didn't acknowledge as a villainous group, is listed before even what you're claiming represents the Technocracy


And kindly don't make such assumptions about what settings I like or dislike solely based on the appearance that I might play them differently than you do.
How you play them is your business. What you're incorrectly claiming about how they work in the books is the business of everyone on this board.

Kurald Galain
2010-08-08, 09:51 AM
i still haven't got the foggiest clue how Pentex can afford making armies of monsters, pollutants to be dumped around the world and products that kill the customers and still have the most profitable companies as their subsidiaries.
If you remove the line about "most profitable", it becomes more-or-less plausible. They know enough about business to avoid being run into the ground, and they could e.g. make money by buying toxic waste from other companies to dispose of. Their business plan could be explained as making as much money as possible while flouting environmental laws, then spending that money on lawyers to prevent being closed down over said flouting.


And i can assure you, Kurald Galain, the Glass Walkers are not openly cooperating with the Weaver.
Yeah, I said "some radical Red Talons", I should also have written "some radical Glass Walkers". Still, they may easily be accused of selling out to the Weaver even when they really don't. They use cell phones for crying out loud :smalltongue:



But to be perfectly honest, lots of the fluff of WtA didn't make a whole lot of sense if you started thinking too much about it.
It's definitely self-contradictory; I blame this on the principle of "unreliable narrators". I believe they cleaned up some of the major errors between first and third edition oWOD, though. And, well, diverging from the fluff where it doesn't make sense to you is a perfectly valid approach in any RPG system.

Terraoblivion
2010-08-08, 10:07 AM
You'd honestly have to chuck most of what was written about Pentex out to get it to make sense as a business. They are incredibly profitable and spend it all on science experiments too crazy for B-movie nazis to embark on, while having business models that involve engineering oil spills and, like i said, killing their customer base. They spend incredible quantities of money on engineering armies to fight werewolves, which is hardly profitable, and to ruin potentially valuable farmland. And on the actual business side of things they actively waste a lot of their resources for the evulz. Pentex just comes off as really, really stupid in official writing about their business practices, yet are incredibly profitable by writer fiat without any real description of how that comes about.

Which is a general problem of WtA. The villains are so incredibly cartoonish once you scratch a bit in the horrifying surface. I mean try to explain Black Spiral Dancer society in plain, unembellished English and avoid laughing at how ridiculous it is. As for how the society of ordinary Garou is and what spirits are like, i'd be buggered if i could tell you. I don't think there are two books agreeing on it and they all have differing default assumptions when describing deviation from the norm. They can't even decide whether the tribes hate each other and try to kill each other or work substantially together across the globe. The tribe books are particularly big offenders since several of them portray the tribe in question as utterly psychotic through and through. And except for maybe that book about the Wyrm that i can't remember the name of, it's all revised edition and not one of the earlier.

Satyr
2010-08-08, 10:20 AM
Actually I think that Pentex and so on were exaggerated into a more black and white form to avoid too open criticism of corporate entities and practices. You certainly don't need an openly evil corporation like Pentex to create a feeling of callousness and threat - especialy because every single one of the Pentex subsidiaries are not very subtly based on real world corporations (I mean Endron? O'Tolley's? Yeah, very hard to decipher.)
And in a way, this overtly evil muahahah! stuff is detrimental to the game because it implies a certain agenda instead of just carelessness, but it avoids a public conflict an as such it is actually justified.

You can easily just use the original franchises with plots torn directly from newspaper headlines and the effect should be the same - or is actually more intense because many of the problems in WtA are substantial to the real world as well.

Kurald Galain
2010-08-08, 10:26 AM
(I mean Endron? O'Tolley's? Yeah, very hard to decipher.)
And Black Dog, of course.

I find that the atmosphere of WTA is good; that certain things break down when taken to their logical conclusion doesn't bother me because that doesn't (usually) happen in actual gameplay - in the same way that the logical existence of the Tippyverse does not prevent me from enjoying D&D.

Selrahc
2010-08-08, 10:29 AM
I couldn't disagree more. Sure, they've got nothing on Mage spells, but they can be very useful and, more importantly, fun: Weather 1 lets you call up a dramatic wind whenever the hell you want, no roll and no cost.

Gifts definitely are useful and interesting additions to a character.. but they're not nearly so vital as they are in other White Wolf games. A combat focussed vampire or mage is going to rely heavily on their "magic", while a werewolf generally just needs his innate strength. If you're new to the game I would advise not getting too concerned about gifts, because they're not really *needed*. Take ones that look interesting.

There are a few pretty good ones available to a starting character though...


Problem is that Gauru form (Garou is the name for the race of Old World of Darkness werewolves) only lasts for a short number of turns: Stamina + Primal Urge, off the top of my head. A starting character's Stamina is likely to only be 1 or 2, and Primal Urge will only be 1 unless you want to intentionally restrict yourself with Merits.

Brawl is also useful in every other form though. The wolf and primal wolf(away from book so I can't give the proper names) forms especially require a bit of brawl to use effectively. Primal wolf is nearly as good as Gauru in a fight.

The main use of Gauru form in my experience is to serve as a sort of panic button. It will probably last for about 6 turns with an average character due to the stamina boost from the form itself.

Weaponry can be a good alternative though, definitely. If you want to be good at combat in human form or near human form it's probably the best choice.

Satyr
2010-08-08, 10:33 AM
I actually like the very ambiguous role of player characters which can switch from actually four-color silver age comic book super heroes (with wolf monster form instead of costumes) up to what cannot described as anything else than terrorists.
With the combination of indeed problematic situations and developments in the real world, this can be a very intense game with questions about how far one would go for the Greater Good (the greater good!), and what makes a man a monster, and so on.

derfenrirwolv
2010-08-08, 10:42 AM
If you want to buff your pack the Auspice (moon sign/character class) you want is the Cahalith. They are the bards, lore keepers, and motivational speakers of the werewolves. They keep the pack together and functioning.

As to how to build your character, Werewolf (and all wod) is about 2 sometimes contradictory things: Having cool abilities that run on dice pools, having a monster dice pool to use them with, and having the species super trait that lets you do both better (Primal urge for werewolves). You can build towards the ability or the dice pool with XP, but not both at the same time.


That's why its very important to identify the abilities you need by looking ahead in the character creation process to what "spells" (gifts) you're going to use and then max them out. For example, true leader gives your party temporary willpower. It uses manipulation, expression, and glory so during character creation you want to emphasize those three things.


Depending on how people build their characters there is an extreme discrepancy in power. In white wolf, the higher your ranks already in an attribute the more they cost, so SPECIALIZE. If you want 5 dots in Academics and 1 dot in computers get the 5 dots at character creation (even if it costs double) and then pay the measly 3 xp for the dot in computers rather than the whopping 15 points for the 5th dot in Academics.

Resolve is a super stat in werewolf. Unfortunately as a cahalith you need presence and manipulation. You need to roll resolve and composure a lot to keep from ripping peoples faces off.

Dog demands walk, i'll give you a sample character when i get back.

derfenrirwolv
2010-08-08, 12:48 PM
Sample the Cahalith

Concept: Punk Rocker

Mechanics concept: Willpower battery- Spending willpower dramatically increases the chance of success on any action. its usually preciously hoarding until the big fight, then burned though to crank a werewolf's already awsome power up to 11. With this build your pack can STAY up to 11 all...the...time... Trying to pick up a chick? Blow the willpower. Convincing a spirit? Blow the willpower. Big fight? Blow the willpower, minor fight.. blow the willpower. You're ok in a fight, but you make your packmates insane at whatever it is they do.

This character can also double as the parties "Face" especially when dealing with humans.


I know that drives role players nuts, but i think its important to have a mechanical concept to your character as well as a personality concept, or else its not going to WORK. Role and roll playing are not opposite ends of the spectrum so that moving away from one moves you towards the other. You can have a wonderful character that's an absolute munchkin and you can have someone thats useless in a fight be as 2 dimensional and flavorful as a cardboard cut out

Auspice: Cahalith- Cahaliths inspire their packmates to new heights of glory, help them exault in their victories and recover from their failures

Tribe: Blood talon- Champions: whether your character was motivated to protect and defend before he's going to find that motivation now. He can express it through his music as an instrument of social change, start a mosh pit at a g20 rally, or defend a decaying neighborhood.

The main reason for the tribe is that its primary renown is glory. The primary renown for Cahaliths is glory, and then you get to pick a third one (i suggest glory) This is because your highest renown limits the highest level gifts you can learn. By the Raw, this lets you start with 3 level 3 gifts. It also gives you access to inspiration gift list, which is usually a very similar and better version if the Cahalith (gibbous moon) list.

For these gifts I would suggest

Blood talon tribal gift: Inspiration True leader (page 125) - Restores willpower, the big thing is it lets you exceed the normal willpower dots , but they're temporary.

Cahalith gift Rallying cry p 118 : Uses manipulation and expression: restores spent willpower up to its limit.

For your freebie Voice of command off of the Dominance gift list. Only works on humans and other werewolves, but the ability to tell the human to "give me the gun and leave" or tell the dog catcher "let that "dog" out of the pound" can be handy.

If your story teller says no to the raw 3 level 3 gifts at start (i would) i'd suggest

True leader (level 3)

Camraderie Level 2 (p 125) helps your pack NOT frenzy

Packawareness Level 1: occasionally restores willpower, but mostly lets you know when your pack has gotten into trouble.

Skills- Mental

None of these are really important.

computer 1 (to use your sound system) Medicine 1 (you've helped a fair number of drunks live and watch er) occult 2- you know what the symbols your band is using actually mean.

If you're the politically active type you could move a dot or 2 into politics.

Physical:

Brawl 4- you're a werewolf. You will have to fight sometime. If someone in the party has invested heavily in crafts and or fetish making, you may want to Go with Weaponry 4 instead. Turn your axe guitar into a real Axe.

Drive 1- the van your band gets around in

Athletics 2- not really that important, move around as needed.


Social

expression 5 - costs 6 points, ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. Everything your character does is based off this.

Streetwise 1- mostly for flavor.

Persuasion 1 - This is to set off your Inspiring merit (see below) Which only restores one WP no matter what you do, so you only need enough to get a success.

Intimidation: 3- for voice of command. if your story teller has put the kibosh on the 3 level 3 powers put the points into empathy (for pack awareness) or persuasion to act as the packs face.

Merits:

Inspiring
Fame 1
Resources 1
Retainer 1 (the drummer)

Mental stats

Int 1 - school was not your thing
Wits 2- You have street smarts... sesame street.
Resolve 4- you set your mind on something and YOU DO IT. Come hell or high water. Gets you Willpower points and makes up for your low composture

Physical

Str 1 - In all honesty there's so many things you can pile on to your attack pool that unless you're designing a combat monster you can get buy with strength

Dex 2- makes you a little harder to hit.

Stam 3- Your goal is to be ALIVE to inspire the pack. Health levels help you do that.


Social

Presence 4 - required for inspiring. Presence rather than manipulation is used for the level 4 and 5 gifts that you'll build up to

manipulation 3- used for a lot of gifts.

Composure 1- You wear your heart on your sleve. Upping this to 2 (which i would do as soon as i got the xp) is cheaper than upping pres or manipulation to 3.

How it works:

You have three options for restoring willpower, all of which can only be used once per day. Make sure the other players know this. Have them spend willpower liberally out of their own pool and replenish it with inspiring (for small loses) and rallying cry (after large losses). During the big fight, run up with your pack and let loose with true leader, sending their available willpower into the stratosphere.

Spending xp: either way it goes, buy up resolve first. If you started with 3 level 3's, pick up pack awareness and then start pumping your glory to get the level 4 and 5 gifts. If you started with the 123 combo buy up resolve then glory for the level 4 and 5 gifts.


But i thought you said to max everything out? Why isn't the character at all 1's and 5's?

Some things you need to max out, some things you need enough to get buy. For example, starting with a 4 staminia and a 1 dex would be cheaper.. IF you wanted to go to a 4 stam and a 2 dex... you don't. You want to get the stats good enough to survive asap, and then throw xp where it will do the most good... which is usually Renown, renown, renown until you hit 5.

devinkowalczyk
2010-08-08, 01:18 PM
If you play alot of DnD, take everything you know about it and set it aside. The game system is very different and the d20 system will actually not help you at all.

Be quiet and listen, nothing is worse then the player who messes everything up cause they don't listen/pay attention.

Selrahc
2010-08-08, 02:24 PM
The main reason for the tribe is that its primary renown is glory. The primary renown for Cahaliths is glory, and then you get to pick a third one (i suggest glory) This is because your highest renown limits the highest level gifts you can learn. By the Raw, this lets you start with 3 level 3 gifts.

It doesn't. You have to take gift chains sequentially. Dot 1, then 2 then 3. It goes into this explicitly on page 64.

The build still basically works, but all of the gifts must be taken from Inspiration, which means taking "The Right Words". Not the worst gift in the world for a party face.

Another thing you need to bear in mind is that the gift only works once per day on any one person. Which is kind of fine since you have the inspiring merit to make do with and you'll be rolling lots of dice to power the gift, so can wait until everyone runs low on willpower.



But i thought you said to max everything out? Why isn't the character at all 1's and 5's?


That kind of attitude isn't all that useful anyway. You're going to be making minor gains in XP later, in return for shoe horning your character pretty hard early on. A character who is utterly useless outside of his specialities is kind of irritating to play.

derfenrirwolv
2010-08-08, 06:06 PM
[QUOTE=Selrahc;9103122]It doesn't. You have to take gift chains sequentially. Dot 1, then 2 then 3. It goes into this explicitly on page 64.

There it is! thanks, i was looking for that.



The build still basically works, but all of the gifts must be taken from Inspiration, which means taking "The Right Words". Not the worst gift in the world for a party face.

My Ironmaster Cahalith lawyer LOVED that gift.




That kind of attitude isn't all that useful anyway. You're going to be making minor gains in XP later, in return for shoe horning your character pretty hard early on. A character who is utterly useless outside of his specialities is kind of irritating to play

The gains are pretty signifigant. Starting with a 3 in your renown saves you 18 points , starting with a 5 instead of a 4 in perform saves you 15 ... thats a good chunk of a campaign right there. The way white wolf forces you to spread the points around means its very hard to get shoe horned into any one thing. The above example can act as a face (to humans, spirits, or anything really), restore willpower, and had 9 dice as a bite attack in Dire wolf form ( 1str+ 4 brawl + 2 strength from dire wolf +2 equipment from the bite (see the eratta) Its not one shotting the big bad by any means, but it will rip a sizable hole in a mook. Werewolves can also afford to specialize more than vampires because you can rely on your pack.


Its also set up to jump right to the level 4 and 5 gifts. Gifts don't get that great till around level 3, so you're more than doubling your power by dashing for 4.