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View Full Version : Talking Smack [3.5, Tinkering]



Mulletmanalive
2010-08-08, 01:38 PM
Quite a while ago, I had one of those discussions with a friend. You know the one, the discussion that goes "I don't want to play a character who can fight" and you're there patiently trying to explain that the nature of the D&D game means that we'll end up in combat with irritating regularity and you need something to DO...

Anyway, this discussion resurfaces while i'm GMing an intrigue based campaign about 2 years ago, which led to my ongoing spate of design. It came up again with the fact that fairies are not often described as fighting but leading you round the reikin in a manner that can't be done easily with spells [see my Fae-o-matic thread in my signature].

These are some feats i've been working on to give talky characters something to do when the shooting starts, without optimising like crazy or designing one of those builds that really doesn't function as the character you want to play but works...

Please read them, consider their impact and grant me some constructive criticism. They're most likely going to be offered as bonus feats on some of my talky, non-spellcaster character classes.

Blistering Annoyance [Social]:
It's surprising how much effect on combat a stream of inane comments and irritating noises can have…
Prerequisites: Cha 13+, Manipulation 4 ranks
Description: As a Swift action, you produce a constant cloud of irritating noise that inflicts a -1 Morale penalty on all checks that your enemies make that aren't geared towards approaching, attacking or otherwise interferring with your actions, for the rest of the round.

Fierce Words [Social, Tactical]:
You have the skills necessary to drag folks around by the nose and make them act in specific ways.
Prerequisites: Cha 13+, Manipulation 8 ranks, Goad, Siren, Skill Focus [Manipulation]
Description: A character possessing this feat gains access to the following feats of manipulation. Each ability can function on a given target only once per day and all saves are set to 10 + half Manipulation Skill bonus.
[B]Chide: As an Immediate action, you can accuse a target in vocal range of being predictable and stupid. He must make a Will save or be forced to choose another action from the one he declared.
Grab Attention: You say something that makes the target's train of thought jump the tracks. As a Standard action, you speak to a target within vocal range and the target must make a Will save or pay too much attention to you and lose their Threatened area except in relation to you until their next turn.
Hesitate: As an Immediate action, you can tell a target to mind their step, causing their movement to halt after they make it half way, rounded up to the nearest 5ft. This can sometimes be useful to protect allies from hidden pitfalls.

Goad [Social]:
Your tongue is so horrible that folks can't help but try to cut it out; usually to their detriment.
Prerequisites: Cha 13+, Manipulation 4 ranks
Description: As a Standard action, you can spew a stream of insults, jibes and general foulness at one target within 30ft [this is a vocal ability], allowing you to make a Manipulation check against them. If you beat their Psyche, the target takes a penalty equal to your Charisma modifier to all checks except attacking you in melee during its next round.

For every full 6 Ranks of Manipulate you possess, the duration of this ability increases by one round, to 2 rounds at 6 ranks, 3 at 12, and so on.

Siren [Social]:
You are adept at making things seem attractive to others, to the point where it is in their detriment to accept.
Prerequisites: Manipulation 6 ranks, Skill Focus [Manipulation]
Description: As a Standard action, demonstrate something appealing to a target within sight. Make Manipulation check at -1 per 5ft between you and target. Success draws the target towards you a number of squares equal to half their Move. If they encounter an obstacle, they may make a Will save, DC 11+ your Charisma modifier, to stop.

Note:
Manipulation is an extra social skill that i came up with because the normal Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate trio didn't really cover everything. Manipulation is for changing emotions. Below is a D&D version of the Siren feat so that you can see it without the Psyche mechanic:

Siren [General]:
You are Adept at making things look so provocative as to draw folks to them, even against their better judgement.
Prerequisites: Bluff 6 ranks, Skill Focus
[B]Benefit: As a Standard action, you may attempt to draw an opponent to you. Make a Bluff check with a -1 penalty per 5ft apart you are from the target and compare it to a Sense Motive Check from the target. If you win, the target moves half their speed towards you. If they encounter an obstacle, they may make a Will save, DC 11+ Cha to realise the danger and stop.

DracoDei
2010-08-09, 12:11 PM
For standard 3.5 (without manipulation) Blistering Annoyance would you just replace Manipulation with Bluff?

I would say that "Grab Attention" shouldn't negate their threatened area as far as YOU are concerned, just everyone else.

Have you looked at the Endless Play discipline (and, to a lesser extent, Falling Anvil's defensive maneuvers) they fight BY talking smack (or giggling insanely intermixed with talking smack).

Peregrine
2010-08-09, 12:42 PM
I like the idea. I'm particularly interested in your Manipulation skill, actually; one of my house-rules-in-the-making replaces Intimidate with a general "taunt/insult/banter/intimidate" skill, which both makes it more flexible, and puts an end to the perennial "I'm strong, why am I not intimidating?" complaint. So you've given me several ideas for where I can take that skill once it's worked out. :smallsmile:

Some hopefully helpful criticisms...

Blistering Annoyance: A bit vague on the "geared towards shutting you up" part. I also think "all checks" should be enumerated; I mean, is a reflex save or skill check "geared towards shutting you up" when failing it means not reaching you to hit you?

Fierce Words: 10 + ˝ skill bonus is an unusual way of setting a DC, though I suppose it will end up only a few points different to 10 + ˝ levels + ability mod. for a character with max ranks (and significantly lower than DC = skill check).

Goad: I'm not sure about this one. Perhaps it's because of my goal of remaking the Intimidate skill, and this feat is somewhat like the "demoralise" use of that skill. It's more powerful (penalty of Cha mod instead of flat 2), but more limited (attacking you is fine). Hmm, I guess on the balance, it's probably worth a feat... (Again, I suggest enumerating affected checks.)

Siren: Hmm. Interesting. I really have nothing to add. No, wait, I do: express "11 + Cha" more formally. I assume it should be "11 + your Charisma modifier"?

imp_fireball
2010-08-09, 01:29 PM
Manipulation is an extra social skill that i came up with because the normal Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate trio didn't really cover everything. Manipulation is for changing emotions. Below is a D&D version of the Siren feat so that you can see it without the Psyche mechanic:

Maybe you should just make the prerequisites ranks in those given three skills?

Also, isn't goad already a feat? I could be wrong.

Mulletmanalive
2010-08-09, 01:57 PM
For standard 3.5 (without manipulation) Blistering Annoyance would you just replace Manipulation with Bluff?

I would say that "Grab Attention" shouldn't negate their threatened area as far as YOU are concerned, just everyone else.

Have you looked at the Endless Play discipline (and, to a lesser extent, Falling Anvil's defensive maneuvers) they fight BY talking smack (or giggling insanely intermixed with talking smack).

You make an excellent point on the Grab Attention thing. I'll have a look at the Endless Play thing; i'm sure i can make it less offensive...


I like the idea. I'm particularly interested in your Manipulation skill, actually; one of my house-rules-in-the-making replaces Intimidate with a general "taunt/insult/banter/intimidate" skill, which both makes it more flexible, and puts an end to the perennial "I'm strong, why am I not intimidating?" complaint. So you've given me several ideas for where I can take that skill once it's worked out. :smallsmile:

Some hopefully helpful criticisms...

If you want the text i use, you're welcome to it. I kept Intimidate, allowing the option of using Strength. Bluff is lies, Gather Information is questions, Diplomacy is getting people to agree with or to things, Sense Motive is reading people and Manipulation is making people like you, altering their feelings and levels of hope, flirting and grovelling...


Blistering Annoyance: A bit vague on the "geared towards shutting you up" part. I also think "all checks" should be enumerated; I mean, is a reflex save or skill check "geared towards shutting you up" when failing it means not reaching you to hit you?

Would "all non-defensive checks they make that neither target you nor allow them to close with you" be sufficient?



Fierce Words: 10 + ˝ skill bonus is an unusual way of setting a DC, though I suppose it will end up only a few points different to 10 + ˝ levels + ability mod. for a character with max ranks (and significantly lower than DC = skill check).

I've used DC = Skill bonus a fair amount but this seemed like it shouldn't assume that you'll be putting too much effort into it. The main point was that as its skill based, i wanted feats like Skill Focus to have an effect on the ability.



Goad: I'm not sure about this one. Perhaps it's because of my goal of remaking the Intimidate skill, and this feat is somewhat like the "demoralise" use of that skill. It's more powerful (penalty of Cha mod instead of flat 2), but more limited (attacking you is fine). Hmm, I guess on the balance, it's probably worth a feat... (Again, I suggest enumerating affected checks.)

I had intended this one to be everything: saves, attacks, skill checks, ability checks, caster level checks etc, except attacking you in melee...if you can think of a way of saying that that isn't basically listing them for the sake of it, i'll happily change it.



Siren: Hmm. Interesting. I really have nothing to add. No, wait, I do: express "11 + Cha" more formally. I assume it should be "11 + your Charisma modifier"?

will do.


Maybe you should just make the prerequisites ranks in those given three skills?

Also, isn't goad already a feat? I could be wrong.

Yes, the name has been used before. Once by Wizards and three more times in my collection of OGL stuff. I could use the three skills, but i have this extra one and there seems little point in not using it...I understand your point though, and it's a good one.