Durkon's accent is becoming annoying

[angelblack]

I've been reading these comics for quite a while and it's starting to bug me a lot that Durkon can't say 2 words without attempting some of that written-accent mumbo-jumbo.

Don't get me wrong, I love dwarfs and their accent but typing "legal 'thority" for example is overdoing it. I end up skipping his speech bubbles since he's comic relief most of the times but I don't think accents should be that important that it gets in the way of reading properly.

[suszterpatt]

I've been reading these comics for quite a while and it's starting to bug me a lot that Durkon can't say 2 words without attempting some of that written-accent mumbo-jumbo.

Don't get me wrong, I love dwarfs and their accent but typing "legal 'thority" for example is overdoing it. I end up skipping his speech bubbles since he's comic relief most of the times but I don't think accents should be that important that it gets in the way of reading properly.
THORity

he can't help it

[Morty]

I can hardly imagine the author changing Durkon's way of speech after 741 strips.

[Kish]

Durkon's what, now?

[Poppy Appletree]

Durkon's what, now?

God forbid OP ever have to read Wuthering Heights. :smallsigh:

[Querzis]

Durkon got an accent? I'm pretty sure hes just talking dwarven and that humans and dwarves just happen to have very similar language. Thats why he write exactly like he talk.

Anyway, I really dont see how that could bother you. At least you can always easely tell what Durkon is saying, go read GirlGenius and try to figure out what the Jaggers say sometimes.

By the way, Durkon is rarely the comic relief (unless trees are involved). I dunno which comic you're reading but Elan and Belkar are the comic relief. Durkon is a very serious character, his accent isnt supposed to be funny.

[Darakonis]

I understand how the OP feels. I critique a lot of fiction, and the use of mangled text to represent accents is generally not the best way to go about it. It's not as bad if the character doesn't say more than a few words, but reading lines and lines of the stuff can become tiresome.

Unless I'm mistaken, in the beginning, Durkon didn't speak much, so using the mangled text worked. I don't recall it being an issue in the past, at least. However, as has been pointed out, Rich can't change things after 700+ strips; people would begin to wonder if Durkon has lost his accent. Rich has got himself in a bit of a bind, and I wouldn't be surprised if this plays at least a minor part in why Durkon has been more of a wallpaper character than the rest of the OotS. I think Rich is doing the best he can with the situation.

On a side note; I used to play a lot of Play-by-Post D&D games, and to all you would-be dwarf players out there: Please. Don't. I know it's tempting, but just don't. Use vocabulary, expressions, and grammatical constructions to convey an accent.

Peace,
-Darakonis

[Yora]

I think it's actually got better over time with his accent. I remember having serious problems with his speech when reading earlier pages, but I didn't notice it at all in the last couple of weeks.

[RndmNumGen]

go read GirlGenius and try to figure out what the Jaggers say sometimes.

Hehe, I love doing that. I enjoy reading Durkon's accent as well.

[Cizak]

I love his accent. It's always fun to read how common english words can be changed into wierd versions. That's why I love roleplaying as dwarves in WoW, you got an excuse to speak like that :smallbiggrin:

[JonestheSpy]

At least you can always easely tell what Durkon is saying, go read GirlGenius and try to figure out what the Jaggers say sometimes.


Hey dere! Jozzt vat ahh hyu tryinn to zay, hennyvayz?

[Marnath]

I love his accent. It's always fun to read how common english words can be changed into wierd versions. That's why I love roleplaying as dwarves in WoW, you got an excuse to speak like that :smallbiggrin:

Lol...may i take this moment to remind you that american english is just as far from the original language as the dialect Durkon speaks >.>
And to the OP, if you actually read Durkon's speech bubbles, you'd know that he's a very in-depth character, not comic relief. As has been mentione that is Elan's job.

[ThePhantasm]

There was a time when Durkon's accent bothered me, but I'm used to it. It isn't a big deal anymore.

[ChowGuy]

Hey dere! Jozzt vat ahh hyu tryinn to zay, hennyvayz?
ho yez brudder! DOT vhas TOATLEE unkullt for!

[Maximum Zersk]

On a side note; I used to play a lot of Play-by-Post D&D games, and to all you would-be dwarf players out there: Please. Don't. I know it's tempting, but just don't. Use vocabulary, expressions, and grammatical constructions to convey an accent.


Vocabulary, Expressions, and Grammatical Constructions are a large part of an accent, not just saying words "funny".

[Zelthax]

Their Eyes were Watching God. Wuthering Heights (Joseph).

Those are annoying accents.

After a hundred strips or so, you begin to skip the minor words, and only have to focus on the new ones, so reading it becomes less of a problem. I actually love his accent, it adds a wonderful flavor to the dialogue, and gives me something to quote.

(From the Board Game: "Howzaboot.....a dragon?" POOF)

[Bongos]

I thought his accent was getting better. I hardly notice it know, he almost sounds like a native speaker.

[Nimrod's Son]

Hey dere! Jozzt vat ahh hyu tryinn to zay, hennyvayz?
I find this reads best if you imagine Mel Brooks saying it.

[Marnath]

I find this reads best if you imagine Mel Brooks saying it.


....why? *doesn't get it*
Is it from a movie role he did?

[Nimrod's Son]

....why? *doesn't get it*
Is it from a movie role he did?
No, he just kinda speaks like that.

[SaintRidley]

The use of spelling to show accent and dialect goes back to Chaucer. He used it for humorous effect.

In 99% of cases this sort of thing is done poorly. In the other 1% of cases we have H.P. Lovecraft, Chaucer, and Burlew.

Word choice alone cannot properly convey a drastic difference in accent. In cases like Durkon's, where his accent is meant to be severely outside the norm, the spelling must reflect his pronunciation. As this is done consistently and with uniform effect the use of accent is a success. Most authors would let things slip and fail to use the accent with such consistency.

Durkon's accent is fine. And reading what he says would clue you in that he's the straight man more often than he is the comic relief.

[Mando Knight]

If'n ye kinnae stand Durkon's accent nae moor, then ye shouldn' play Dragon Quest IX, either, laddie.

[Fiery Diamond]

Speaking of games with horribly transcribed accents...

...Chrono Cross.

Just no.

[mucat]

I understand how the OP feels. I critique a lot of fiction, and the use of mangled text to represent accents is generally not the best way to go about it. It's not as bad if the character doesn't say more than a few words, but reading lines and lines of the stuff can become tiresome.

Unless I'm mistaken, in the beginning, Durkon didn't speak much, so using the mangled text worked. I don't recall it being an issue in the past, at least. However, as has been pointed out, Rich can't change things after 700+ strips; people would begin to wonder if Durkon has lost his accent. Rich has got himself in a bit of a bind, and I wouldn't be surprised if this plays at least a minor part in why Durkon has been more of a wallpaper character than the rest of the OotS. I think Rich is doing the best he can with the situation.
It's more than a little condescending to assume that another writer regrets not doing things the way you would have, and is intentionally downplaying a character because you don't like the way he's implemented. To the best of our knowledge, Durkon speaks exactly like Rich wants him to speak, and his role in the story is what Rich wants it to be. It's fine to dislike a choice that a writer made, to criticize its effect, or (best of all) to do things differently in your own work...but don't assume that he wishes he'd done it your way.

[Nilan8888]

Unless I'm mistaken, in the beginning, Durkon didn't speak much, so using the mangled text worked. I don't recall it being an issue in the past, at least. However, as has been pointed out, Rich can't change things after 700+ strips; people would begin to wonder if Durkon has lost his accent. Rich has got himself in a bit of a bind, and I wouldn't be surprised if this plays at least a minor part in why Durkon has been more of a wallpaper character than the rest of the OotS. I think Rich is doing the best he can with the situation.

Actually, there might be a plausible way of -- if not getting out of that situation, at least explaining it a bit more.

It tends to be that people immersed in an environment will eventually lose thier original accent. This happens more readily while younger, but I think it carries over to some extent to older individuals as well. Durkon, being in his what... 40s? Well, he's young-ish for a Dwarf.

Maybe it is possible that perhaps Durkon is CONSCIOUSLY holding onto his accent, or at least trying to. That he's making an active effort not to integrate and keep his speech how he remembers it. And who knows, maybe that might end up just making it worse. It might end up that the next time Durkon speaks to a Dwarf from his homeland, the other Dwarf won't understand Durkon either.

I'm reminded a bit of this story about Esa Tikkanen, this hockey player back in the '80s, from Finland. His wife was Swedish. And he played in Canada and the US.

It wound up that nobody could end up understanding anything Esa was saying, even the other Finnish and Swedish members of his teams. Everyone had the exact same problems in understanding him. His influences had become so confused by that point that it ended upbeing this mish-mash that they just called "Tikkanese".

[Bongos]

So what exactly is the accent meant to be anyways? Some crazy form of Scottish accent is what I come up with? Or is it based on some fantasy work somewhere? I don't remember Gimli speaking quite like that.

[Poppy Appletree]

In 99% of cases this sort of thing is done poorly. In the other 1% of cases we have H.P. Lovecraft, Chaucer, and Burlew.

...Wait, are you saying you can actually read Chaucer? :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

[Darakonis]

It's more than a little condescending to assume that another writer regrets not doing things the way you would have, and is intentionally downplaying a character because you don't like the way he's implemented. To the best of our knowledge, Durkon speaks exactly like Rich wants him to speak, and his role in the story is what Rich wants it to be. It's fine to dislike a choice that a writer made, to criticize its effect, or (best of all) to do things differently in your own work...but don't assume that he wishes he'd done it your way.

Durkon does speak exactly the way Rich wanted him to speak, and his role in the story is what Rich wants it to be. He made a fine choice in choosing to represent Durkon's accent when he first conceived this comic. At the time, it was a gag-a-day strip, and the use of the mangled text was humorous and, to me at least, poked fun at the way roleplayers of yore (and many to this day) would play dwarves with Scottish accents (I'm guilty!).

I in no way criticize Rich for his decision. It worked.

But the fact of the matter is that it probably takes at least 400% more effort to write Durkon's dialogue than any other character's. Rich has to put a ton of effort into keeping the accent consistent, and he has done this wonderfully. And I'm sure he knows that in writing, clarity is paramount, and that readers need to struggle to some minor degree to understand what Durkon is saying. Is it mere coincidence that Durkon has so few lines? Maybe. Maybe not.

But if there were one main character in a strip whose dialogue was especially difficult to write, and that readers would have a little trouble understanding, it's only natural that I would write him a role in the story that requires less dialogue than other characters.


And to those pointing out historical literary works in which mangled text has been effectively used to convey accents... There are many techniques that have been historically used that just don't fly today. I'm in the biz, and I know that presenting a story to an editor in which yer writin' text tha looks like dis is a quick route to the rejection pile, because it's no longer original, it's over-done, and it's generally poorly done and inconsistent.

In OotS, it works, because Rich is consistent, it's intended to be parody, and it's not over-used.

But that doesn't stop me from wishing there was an "auto-translate" button on the strips where Durkon has a lot to say.

Peace,
-Darakonis

[Twilight Jack]

...Wait, are you saying you can actually read Chaucer? :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

Wait, are you saying you can't? :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

[Danne]

Wuthering Heights (Joseph).

Hell yeah. I just ended up skipping most of what he was saying. :smalleek: It was fun to try and figure it out at first, but I rarely got all of it and it just gave me a headache, so I gave up about halfway through.

I don't find Durkon's accent annoying at all. It's quirky. And really, it could be so much worse.

[Toper]

I'm actually sort of starting to agree with this. I mean, I like that Durkon has an accent, and I wouldn't want it to go away, and this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0305.html)is hilarious. But the usual problem with transcribing accents is that it appears to make fun of the speaker and paint them as unsophisticated. This is particularly egregious when a speaker's words are transcribed phonetically even when they'd be pronounced the same without the accent, so you can't really argue that you're just accurately presenting what's there.

For instance, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0740.html)Durkon says:

"But tha law got Roy an' Belkar fair an' square. We'll haf ta work witin tha system..."

which is how anybody would pronounce it, except for "within". In casual speech English-speakers just don't enunciate those d's or voice the "v" and long "o" in "have to", and I've never known how "tha" is different from "the" in the first place.

So yeah, that's sort of annoying and strikes me as unintentionally and unnecessarily minstrel-y.

[Bongos]

I don't know, there are a lot of English speakers around the world with a lot of accents.

[factotum]

"But tha law got Roy an' Belkar fair an' square. We'll haf ta work witin tha system..."

which is how anybody would pronounce it, except for "within". In casual speech English-speakers just don't enunciate those d's or voice the "v" and long "o" in "have to", and I've never known how "tha" is different from "the" in the first place.


I'm hardly an RP speaker, but tha and the sound quite different to my ears, and I always pronounce the "d" in "and". I also pronounce "have" with a V, not an F. Pronouncing those words any other way is part of an accent, whether you think it is or not.

[JonestheSpy]

Can anyone actually say how the whole "dwarves have Scottish accents" cliche came from, anyway? Dwarves are from Germanic mythology after all, not Celtic. Somewhere along the line we went from the dour, laconic dwarves (pretty much imitating Nordic speech patterns) of Tolkien and previous folklore to short, beer-swilling Scotsmen, and I totally missed how that happened.

[Bongos]

Don't dwarves also have Scandinavian origins as well? Unless that is the same as Germanic.

Now that would be funny, a dwarf with the Scandinavian accent, kind of like in that movie Fargo?

[Toper]

I'm hardly an RP speaker, but tha and the sound quite different to my ears, and I always pronounce the "d" in "and". I also pronounce "have" with a V, not an F. Pronouncing those words any other way is part of an accent, whether you think it is or not.
What does "tha law" sound like, then, if not the "uh" schwa sound of "the"?

Also, where are you from, and are you a native English speaker? I know it sounds weird to tell somebody over the internet how they talk, but... more people think they enunciate everything than really do. You don't ever notice the exact sounds of casual speech unless you're focusing on them very carefully.

The OOTS has always seemed to me to be speaking American English, and I'm not aware of any accents that don't elide sounds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relaxed_pronunciation#English) this way. Even if there are some, they're certainly not the norm, so I'd be pretty surprised if the Giant doesn't also say an' and hafta in most of the same phonetic contexts where Durkon does.

[Poppy Appletree]

What does "tha law" sound like, then, if not the "uh" schwa sound of "the"?

"Tha" does not use a schwa. That's the point. :smallconfused:

[rewinn]

What does "tha law" sound like, then, if not the "uh" schwa sound of "the"?

Theeee or Thuuuhh --- both are 'ceptable 'Merikan.

[JonestheSpy]

Don't dwarves also have Scandinavian origins as well? Unless that is the same as Germanic.

Now that would be funny, a dwarf with the Scandinavian accent, kind of like in that movie Fargo?

Yeah, Scandinavian is a subset of Germanic in this context.

I remember Tolkien wrote that his Dwarves had secret names in their own language that non-dwarves never heard, and adopted common-use names in the local northern common tongue for outside use, which is why his dwarves had names right out of the Viking sagas.

Now, I'm not saying ya gotta do it like Tolkien did it, but he was being true to the dwarves' origins. No idea where the Scots/beerfiend thing came from. Maybe just geeks who watched that Mel Gibson movie too many times...

[Zevox]

If'n ye kinnae stand Durkon's accent nae moor, then ye shouldn' play Dragon Quest IX, either, laddie.
Nor Dragon Quest V, for that matter. Which is a pity, as they're both great games.


I'm hardly an RP speaker, but tha and the sound quite different to my ears, and I always pronounce the "d" in "and". I also pronounce "have" with a V, not an F. Pronouncing those words any other way is part of an accent, whether you think it is or not.
Indeed.

Zevox

[Nimrod's Son]

So what exactly is the accent meant to be anyways? Some crazy form of Scottish accent is what I come up with?
Pretty much. I've known a lot of people with very thick Scottish accents in my time, and for the most part Durkon's accent reads like that. There are quite a few instances of things a Scottish person would never say, but considering Rich is from America he hasn't done a bad job.


But the fact of the matter is that it probably takes at least 400% more effort to write Durkon's dialogue than any other character's.
I'm not sure I agree. Vaarsuvius also uses very distinctive speech patterns; he may not speak in deliberately misspelled words but his syntax is unmistakable nonetheless. Same for a few other characters too. Rich has to think about how every character would phrase things and I don't see how it would be much harder for Durkon. I agree the he sometimes overdoes the phonetic spelling but that's probably the result of him not putting in 400% more effort for Durkon's dialogue, if anything. He's been doing so long it's probably second nature by now.

Incidentally, whenever I read an Irvine Welsh novel I think in Scottish for a good few days afterward.


which is how anybody would pronounce it, except for "within".
I'm still leaning towards typo on that one. Pronouncing "th" as "t" isn't something Scottish people do (it's more of an Irish thing, really) and I don't recall other instances of Durkon doing it before.

[pointless whimsy]In fact, quite a few of the typos in this book are the result of a missing H. Maybe there's a piece of grit under that key on his keyboard.[/pointless whimsy]

[Cealocanth]

I like the accent. I can see how it becomes annoying but it helps make Durkon who he is as a character.

[Marnath]

Personally, i never found durkon's accent annoying. I didn't even consider it could be until i saw this thread.

[factotum]

What does "tha law" sound like, then, if not the "uh" schwa sound of "the"?

Also, where are you from, and are you a native English speaker?

It sounds like "that" with the t taken off the end, is how I always read it in my mind--which is not a schwa, as already pointed out. As for where I'm from, I'm born and bred in England, which pretty much makes me a native English speaker--unless you know of some definition that doesn't!

[Mastikator]

That's not an accent, it's the correct way of speaking Dwarven in the ootsverse. Durkon writes like that in his letters too, and according to him it's not an accent.

[Orzel]

I'm a New Yorker. I get hit with so many accents, Durkon's doesn't even require a saving throw.

[Capt Spanner]

Pretty much. I've known a lot of people with very thick Scottish accents in my time, and for the most part Durkon's accent reads like that. There are quite a few instances of things a Scottish person would never say, but considering Rich is from America he hasn't done a bad job.

I'm still leaning towards typo on that one. Pronouncing "th" as "t" isn't something Scottish people do (it's more of an Irish thing, really) and I don't recall other instances of Durkon doing it before.

I have a friend who likes being read aloud to, and so I read her OOTS.

I always got round the way Durkon occasionally meanders into Irish, or says things you wouldn't hear in Scotland and the fact I'm terrible at accents by saying Durkon doesn't have a Scottish accent. He has a Dwarven one.

[Goosefarble]

God forbid OP ever have to read Wuthering Heights. :smallsigh:

Or "A Kestral for a Knave". Anyway, I don't have that much of a problem with Durkon, I think it makes him more interesting. He's the only character I give any kind of voice to, apart from people like Xykon. And Thog.

[Bongos]

Yeah that's right I forgot, it's not a Dwarven accent, it's Dwarvish, it's a language.

[Saphy]

Durkon's accent isn't that bad. I get to deal with bad Chinese accents everyday (thank you mom and dad).

And I skipped all of Joseph's speech in Wuthering Heights haha. Thankfully my version (Norton Critical) would translate for me. :) Very helpful.

[MageLeif]

Durkon thinks that us humans' accent is annoying.:smallamused:

[Nimrod's Son]

All I remember about the novel Wutherng Heights is that it's nowhere near as good as the song.

[KenderWizard]

I have a friend who likes being read aloud to, and so I read her OOTS.

I always got round the way Durkon occasionally meanders into Irish, or says things you wouldn't hear in Scotland and the fact I'm terrible at accents by saying Durkon doesn't have a Scottish accent. He has a Dwarven one.

How do you read it to her? Does she look at the pictures, or do you describe the things, like you're reading a novelisation, or is she awesome at guessing context? Do you do really different voices for all the characters or do you do "Then Vaarsuvius says..."?

I'm not very good at doing Durkon's accent in my head. I've have a better chance if it just noted at the start "READ ALL DURKON'S BUBBLES IN THICK SCOTTISH ACCENT". Reading the phoenetics distracts me. But it doesn't usually annoy me either.

[PsychoticPanda]

Personally, i never found durkon's accent annoying. I didn't even consider it could be until i saw this thread.

I Got to agree

[zimmerwald1915]

Their Eyes were Watching God. Wuthering Heights (Joseph).

Those are annoying accents.
The Cripple of Inishmaan. That is all.

[Lord Bingo]

I've been reading these comics for quite a while and it's starting to bug me a lot that Durkon can't say 2 words without attempting some of that written-accent mumbo-jumbo.

Don't get me wrong, I love dwarfs and their accent but typing "legal 'thority" for example is overdoing it. I end up skipping his speech bubbles since he's comic relief most of the times but I don't think accents should be that important that it gets in the way of reading properly.

Come on! Why are you being anal about Durkon's accent? I could understand if it demonstrated gross inconsistencies, but that is not the case...

[Liwen]

I would never wish for Durkon accent's to be thrown away or even just tone down a bit. Even if, at times I'm having trouble comprehending his speech, which is quite rare anyway. That's part of the character, just like Belkar is barefooted (well, not right now but I can bet he'll toss those sandals away ASAP or die in them... :smalleek:) and Roy is sarcastic. It's one of the little gimmicks that helps you immerse in the fiction. The guy ain't a short human with a beard, he's a dwarf. How do you know? The accent. (and his fear of tree, worshiping of Thor, love for good beer, etc but the accent is a really big part).

[Petrocorus]

As a non-native English-speaker, i must say that i find Durkon's accent sometimes difficult to read. I sometimes skip his bubbles. An even unconsciously.

If the accent was a bit less strong, that would be easier for me.

By comparison, V's verbose speech are easier for me than Durkon's accent. And i even learn new words.

[Ted The Bug]

I love his accent, but I just love accents in general.

[snikrept]

I've always sort of assumed Durkon spoke very slowly compared to the other characters. His speech bubbles take more time to read and parse out, and I'm one of those folks who reads at a speaking pace by hearing the voice speaking in my head, so messing up all the spellings is a good mechanic to imitate a slow speaker, regardless of actual accent or not.

[Themrys]

As a non-native speaker I like Durkon's accent. I think it is relatively easy to understand. (That is, it's easier than spoken received pronounciation.)

[John Cribati]

It could be worse. Durkon could be a Redwall mole.

[Threeshades]

ever since team fortress 2 i imagine durkons speech like the demoman's (not only the accent) and its just that much more fun.

[Petrocorus]

Maybe i should write with my accent when i post in this forum.

[Elemental_Elf]

I love Durkon's accent and I would not want him to speak any other way.

And to all you people who find it hard to read Durkon's speech, maybe you should go back and read some of the archive, you know for practice... Or maybe you can try to read the comic slower, there's no point speeding through and skipping word bubbles, now is there? If that doesn't work, try reading his speech bubbles faster or perhaps vocalize them quietly. When you hear his speech, it makes 'lot o' sense because iffin yee havin' troubl' den yee best try new methods of readin' tha text. :smallbiggrin:

[Zwums]

It could be worse. Durkon could be a Redwall mole.

Hahaha that has to be one of the few posts to actually make me lol. I love the moles.

[Crisis21]

Durkon's accent is a character trait, and like previously mentioned in this thread, it is a consistent accent. It is very obvious that Rich pays close attention to accurately portraying Durkon's accent and he does so very well.

Besides which, Durkon's accent is one of the more subtle running gags in the comic. Subtle in that while it is consistently present, only rarely is attention called to it.

[Zevox]

Besides which, Durkon's accent is one of the more subtle running gags in the comic. Subtle in that while it is consistently present, only rarely is attention called to it.
Er, but how is it a gag :smallconfused: ? It is very rarely joked about - I can think of only two times that has happened off the top of my head, the "transcribe your accent" letter and Belkar's "He can pronounce 'stratosphere' but not 'the'?" way back at the start of No Cure for the Paladin Blues. And that doesn't make the accent itself a joke, just used as part of one in those two cases.

Zevox

[Scarlet Knight]

Being that Durkon has appeared in over a hundred less episodes than Roy and less than 40 than the next lowest OOTS member (V), I have trouble seeing how his accent can be that annoying. I mean it's so infrequently heard.

[Crisis21]

Er, but how is it a gag :smallconfused: ? It is very rarely joked about - I can think of only two times that has happened off the top of my head, the "transcribe your accent" letter and Belkar's "He can pronounce 'stratosphere' but not 'the'?" way back at the start of No Cure for the Paladin Blues. And that doesn't make the accent itself a joke, just used as part of one in those two cases.

Zevox

It is a gag in that Rich is lampooning heavy accents by even using it the way he does. The fact that he doesn't call attention to it often does not mean that the joke isn't there, much in the way that the accent itself does not go away.

[Zevox]

It is a gag in that Rich is lampooning heavy accents by even using it the way he does. The fact that he doesn't call attention to it often does not mean that the joke isn't there, much in the way that the accent itself does not go away.
...that doesn't make any sense. Simply having an accent doesn't mean you're "lampooning" it. By that logic, every piece of fiction that includes someone with an accent is making a joke of it.

Zevox

[Darakonis]

...that doesn't make any sense. Simply having an accent doesn't mean you're "lampooning" it. By that logic, every piece of fiction that includes someone with an accent is making a joke of it.

Zevox

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, the "joke" is that:


the use of the mangled text (...) poked fun at the way roleplayers of yore (and many to this day) would play dwarves with Scottish accents (I'm guilty!)

It's funny because it's a trope, it's a stereotype, it's something that I think all old-school (and maybe new-school) roleplayers can relate to. We made our dwarves speak with Scottish accents long before the Lord of the Rings movies came out!

Whether Rich intended to parody us dwarven roleplayers with Durkon, or he simply made the most generic dwarf possible, it still rings true with me. It's not "ha ha" funny, but it's "that makes me smile on the inside" funny.

Peace,
-Darakonis

[Zevox]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, the "joke" is that:

It's funny because it's a trope, it's a stereotype, it's something that I think all old-school (and maybe new-school) roleplayers can relate to. We made our dwarves speak with Scottish accents long before the Lord of the Rings movies came out!

Whether Rich intended to parody us dwarven roleplayers with Durkon, or he simply made the most generic dwarf possible, it still rings true with me. It's not "ha ha" funny, but it's "that makes me smile on the inside" funny.

Peace,
-Darakonis
...but where is there any evidence that he is using this as a joke, rather than simply playing that trope straight? Because I don't see any, at all, and without evidence of such it seems to me ridiculous to consider it a joke when it is, as you noted, the common way to portray Dwarves as speaking.

Zevox

[Kish]

...but where is there any evidence that he is using this as a joke, rather than simply playing that trope straight?
"You realize you don't have to transcribe your accent?"
"Transcribe my what, now?"

[Zevox]

"You realize you don't have to transcribe your accent?"
"Transcribe my what, now?"
I mentioned that before, if you'd care to read back a couple of posts. Yes, there are a couple of jokes about his accent, but that does make his accent, in and of itself, a joke.

Zevox

[Darakonis]

Zevox, my point was that whether or not Rich intended the accent itself to be a joke, I find humor in it (hence why I said "for me"). By definition, a "joke" does not need to be intentional.

Peace,
-Darakonis

[Crisis21]

Zevox, my point was that whether or not Rich intended the accent itself to be a joke, I find humor in it (hence why I said "for me"). By definition, a "joke" does not need to be intentional.

Peace,
-Darakonis

I could not have put it better myself. :smallsmile:

[Marnath]

I'm pretty sure jokes have to be intentional....:smallconfused:
And i'm not seeing the humor, it looks to me like he's playing Durkon as the straight man.

[John Cribati]

I'm pretty sure jokes have to be intentional....:smallconfused:


A joke is in the eye of the beholder. I can take or treat anything I want as a joke, no matter how serious it was in intent (See the "Narm" page on TvTropes for examples). Some people find Durkon's accent funny, because of some experience or whatever, so it's a joke to them.

[Darakonis]

I'm pretty sure jokes have to be intentional....:smallconfused:
And i'm not seeing the humor, it looks to me like he's playing Durkon as the straight man.

According to Webster's Universal College Dictionary, (as well as dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/joke)) a joke doesn't have to be intentional. It can simply be "something that is amusing or ridiculous."

If you don't see any humor in the accent, then that's perfectly fine. But that doesn't take away from the fact that some of us do find humor in it. It's a matter of taste in humor and life experience (in this case, with regards to D&D).

Nothing is amusing to everyone; humor is personal.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Herpestidae. Wow, almost said some of the exact same things. I was debating whether to reference Narm and Bathos.

Peace,
-Darakonis

[Larspcus2]

If you don't see any humor in the accent, then that's perfectly fine. But that doesn't take away from the fact that some of us do find humor in it. It's a matter of taste in humor and life experience (in this case, with regards to D&D).


But obviously, the conversation has to center around what Burlew intends, or perhaps what the majority of people feel. Otherwise there's no discussion.

[David Demola]

The Cripple of Inishmaan. That is all.

I see that bet, and raise you a Finnegan's Wake

[Elemental_Elf]

And i'm not seeing the humor, it looks to me like he's playing Durkon as the straight man.

Straightmen are funny because of the people they choose to surround themselves with and their interactions with said people.

As for the accent, well it's a social commentary on the fact that there are really 3 accents that cross all tables and genres of D&D and they are - Normal English, Dwarf English and Barbarian English. Normal English is, just that, the normal way people talk (i.e. like Roy, Elan, V, etc.). Dwarf English is what Durkon speaks and Stupid English is what Thog (and several ogres) speaks. Just about any group you sit in on, will be able to regale you with stories of these three accents.

The joke with Durkon's accent is that Rich has actually taken the time to write out rules how he speaks and always sticks to those rules. 99.999% of authors, DMs and Players will, most often, slide between Dwarven English and Normal English on a fairly regular basis. So the joke is seen through consistency.

Other than than those two aspects (Straightman and Accent) there is a third aspect that is both funny and contains quite a bit of social cometary - out of all the main characters who has had the least amount of screen time? Who has actively controlled the fate of the main plot the least? The simple answer - Durkon. Why is that you ask? Well it's because he's the Cleric. Its almost an unstated rule that if you play the Cleric, you are consigned to being the group band-aid and the 'moral center' for the group. All of of which amounts to you not being the central focus of the plot. Clerics walk a path of making others better but the cost of such a path is your (relative) obscurity.

[Urist McDwarf]

Och, what 're ye talkin aboot?

[Marnath]

*stuff*

Or maybe it's not that he gave Durkon an accent to make a point and more that he just thought it appropriate. As to making sure it sounds right, that doesn't mean it's a statement it just means Rich is a consumate professional.

[Francis Davey]

Going back over the comic, and in particular reading the dwarven discussions in Origin of PCs, I think that they sound more Irish than Scottish. In particular, the 3 dwarven priests can be made (in my head) to sound rather "Father Ted" like.

Words like "wit" sound much more Irish than Scottish to me (but then I spent some of my childhood in Scotland, and half of my family are members of Clan Donald, so I'm more sensitive to it).

Does anyone else find this?

[factotum]

Well, that's assuming there's such a thing as a consistent Scottish accent, which there isn't--a Scot from Glasgow will not have anything like the same accent as one from Inverness, any more than you would expect a Liverpudlian to speak like a Londoner. There may well be a Scottish accent which is close to Durkon's, but I suspect only a native Scot would know for sure, and I ain't that!

[hamishspence]

As far as I recall, most native Scots don't speak with an accent anything like as strong as that one.

Exaggerated Stereotyped Scots Accent, a bit like Groundskeeper Willie from the Simpsons, is pretty common in fiction.

[snikrept]

ever since team fortress 2 i imagine durkons speech like the demoman's (not only the accent) and its just that much more fun.

So when they defeat Redcloak he can say "they're going to have to glue you back together... in ACHERON!"

[Kami2awa]

Vocabulary, Expressions, and Grammatical Constructions are a large part of an accent, not just saying words "funny".

Surely changing all that makes it harder to understand? If Durkon spoke with Scottish dialect (I always imagine him as Scottish) he'd talk like this:

It's a sair fecht. Sic as ye gie, sic wull ye get. Dinnae fash yersel. You're a long time deid! Lang may yer lum reek! Haste ye back.

Meaning:

It's a hard life. You get out of life what you put in. Don't worry. Enjoy life! Long may you live! Come back soon.

[Cerlis]

All i know is when im playing my Dwarf on WoW and want to start talking with a bad scottish accent it comes out naturally.

Just read it aloud in your head. its pronounced Phonetically anyways.