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felinoel
2010-08-09, 12:39 AM
Is there anything like a class or something that specializes in alchemy? I am a major fan of the ex-skill and wonder if there is something like the old 3.5 PrC Alchemist in any way in 4e... anyone know?

Mando Knight
2010-08-09, 12:48 AM
Closest to an Alchemist is the Artificer, in the Eberron Player's Guide. Gets access to better alchemy than the other Ritual Casters (since the Artificer has a unique feat that grants access to Alchemy and gives a +3 level bonus to crafting alchemical items), and several powers have an alchemical flavor.

Unfortunately, alchemy itself is very weak in 4e. The items aren't that powerful, with set attack/damage rolls that quickly make themselves obsolete, and the time and resources spent making and using them are usually better spent on improving and using your own powers. Alchemical items are in essence items you use to supplement your powers, never replace them.

mobdrazhar
2010-08-09, 12:51 AM
i do find it useful it you take the alchemical opportunist feat though

Kurald Galain
2010-08-09, 02:37 AM
What Mando said.

Also, the Artificer is a solid class with a definite alchemical vibe to it.

felinoel
2010-08-09, 04:16 PM
I see, well thanks guys, hope a real alchemist comes out soon though then...

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-09, 04:24 PM
I see, well thanks guys, hope a real alchemist comes out soon though then...
Seriously, check out the Artificer.

It's everything you might want from an "alchemist" and it already exists.

Read it over and let us know what you feel is missing.

Faleldir
2010-08-09, 05:38 PM
I know what he wants.
He wants a class called "Alchemist" that explicitly says "These powers are not magic, but not too sci-fi or too anime either". Whether it's actually good at doing what an alchemist does is irrelevant, just like the 3.5 Ninja class.

felinoel
2010-08-09, 07:17 PM
Seriously, check out the Artificer.

It's everything you might want from an "alchemist" and it already exists.

Read it over and let us know what you feel is missing.I am, I will be using it


I know what he wants.
He wants a class called "Alchemist" that explicitly says "These powers are not magic, but not too sci-fi or too anime either". Whether it's actually good at doing what an alchemist does is irrelevant, just like the 3.5 Ninja class.No no... I am using the artificer, I just still want an alchemist class

SSGoW
2010-08-09, 08:07 PM
See at first I thought you may have meant alchemist as in Full Metal but I'm glad you are not going that route and actually mean an alchemist...

You could always let Artificers make items even cheaper and then replace the [W] with [A] meaning that you may use one alchemy item in place of a weapon attack?

With that in mind...

Remember Rikku from Final Fantasy X and X-2? Yeah well what you do is...

Artificer At-will
Mix
Standard Action * effect and elements varies

You may mix your alchemy items together in haste and cause 1d6 + Int mod damage.
*special* You must know how to create an alchemist item, choose one item at that you know how to make and any effects that item has this power can dupluicate. Any effect last till the end of your next turn

21st level: 2d6 + Int mod dmg + effect till end of your next turn

example:
Level 3 artificer knows the alchemist item creation for Slow Oil

At-will: Mix
Standard action
Int vs. Ref
1d6 + Int mod damage and the target is slowed till the end of your next turn

You don't waste money but knowing more alchemy items is a huge advantage...

Plus.. if you have alchemist oppurtunist feat you may use this at-will as an Oppurtunity Attack (or AoO?) lol

Caphi
2010-08-09, 08:22 PM
See at first I thought you may have meant alchemist as in Full Metal but I'm glad you are not going that route and actually mean an alchemist...

I think that's called "projection".

SSGoW
2010-08-09, 09:27 PM
I know this guy IRL sooo more like educated projection!

felinoel
2010-08-09, 11:35 PM
See at first I thought you may have meant alchemist as in Full Metal but I'm glad you are not going that route and actually mean an alchemist...But I referenced the 3.5e Alchemist PrC in the OP?


You could always let Artificers make items even cheaper and then replace the [W] with [A] meaning that you may use one alchemy item in place of a weapon attack?Interesting, I just may...


With that in mind...

Remember Rikku from Final Fantasy X and X-2? Yeah well what you do is...

Artificer At-will
Mix
Standard Action * effect and elements varies

You may mix your alchemy items together in haste and cause 1d6 + Int mod damage.
*special* You must know how to create an alchemist item, choose one item at that you know how to make and any effects that item has this power can dupluicate. Any effect last till the end of your next turn

21st level: 2d6 + Int mod dmg + effect till end of your next turnOne item that I know how to make's effects plus the 1d6+int mod for damage?


example:
Level 3 artificer knows the alchemist item creation for Slow Oil

At-will: Mix
Standard action
Int vs. Ref
1d6 + Int mod damage and the target is slowed till the end of your next turn

You don't waste money but knowing more alchemy items is a huge advantage...So not only does it do its effect, it also hurts them?


Plus.. if you have alchemist oppurtunist feat you may use this at-will as an Oppurtunity Attack (or AoO?) lolWhat is the difference between attack of opportunity versus opportunity attack btw?

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 12:00 AM
AoO and OA are the same thing just one is 3.x term and the other is 4e but i never remember wich one is which >.> I like OoA look rather than OA lol

anyways

Yes it hurts them a little bit cause you mixed it on the fly and its not just that item but you making a bomb of that item... You can't make that item for free but you can have its effects for free more or less lol Maybe you can choose one item per item level that you know that you can use with this at-will ... So you could do tanglefoot bag and alchemist fire (but not at one time)... Actually...
Heroic: Use one item you can create
Paragon: Use 2 items you can create
Epic: use 3 items that you can create
Keep the damage no matter what tier as 1d6 (represents how volitile the concoction is) and Int because you know where to throw it to hit the enemy the best way possible.

Yes you said that in the OP but the title of the thread + your name under it made me think Full Metal (although there is a paragon path that lets a artificer to become full metal ... lol)

felinoel
2010-08-10, 12:03 AM
AoO and OA are the same thing just one is 3.x term and the other is 4e but i never remember wich one is which >.> I like OoA look rather than OA lolAoO is 3.X


anyways

Yes it hurts them a little bit cause you mixed it on the fly and its not just that item but you making a bomb of that item... You can't make that item for free but you can have its effects for free more or less lol Maybe you can choose one item per item level that you know that you can use with this at-will ... So you could do tanglefoot bag and alchemist fire (but not at one time)... Actually...
Heroic: Use one item you can create
Paragon: Use 2 items you can create
Epic: use 3 items that you can create
Keep the damage no matter what tier as 1d6 (represents how volitile the concoction is) and Int because you know where to throw it to hit the enemy the best way possible.Awesome, simply awesome


Yes you said that in the OP but the title of the thread + your name under it made me think Full Metal (although there is a paragon path that lets a artificer to become full metal ... lol)As in the anime?

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 12:05 AM
No as in the artificer turns his arm into a metal weapon of doom

felinoel
2010-08-10, 12:07 AM
No as in the artificer turns his arm into a metal weapon of doomSo... like the anime? o.O

Now I understand the anime's name! I figured it was just because slightly less then half of him was robotic lol

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 12:08 AM
Did you not catch on to what I was doing?

felinoel
2010-08-10, 12:08 AM
Did you not catch on to what I was doing?

It is late and I am tired, shush you

Tengu_temp
2010-08-10, 12:09 AM
I'm sure there will never be an official alchemist class. All you can do is take an artificer and refluff heavily.

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 12:14 AM
Oh! You could always make that at-will...

At-will: Mix
Standard action * Ranged (crossbow)

which could be lots of fun...

I made a wizard that used a hand cross bow to delever spells and turned him into the main character from Outlaw star :3

felinoel
2010-08-10, 12:31 AM
I'm sure there will never be an official alchemist class. All you can do is take an artificer and refluff heavily.How can you be so sure?
Oh! You could always make that at-will...

At-will: Mix
Standard action * Ranged (crossbow)

which could be lots of fun...

I made a wizard that used a hand cross bow to delever spells and turned him into the main character from Outlaw star :3How do you mean? Do you mean attach the alchemized product to an arrow and fire it at people? Why not just use a sling? That wouldn't fly off course due to the extra weight?

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 01:25 AM
No no no it doesn't work that way... If its in the power then you don't attach anything since its part of the power.

If the power says you can deliver a power through a crossbow then you don't have to take an extra action to do stuff... its all part of the power..

Tengu_temp
2010-08-10, 01:32 AM
How can you be so sure?

Because alchemy is already a crafting skill. At best we will get an update to it that makes it less useless.

Siegel
2010-08-10, 01:37 AM
There is the "Alchemic Savant" PP in EPG

felinoel
2010-08-10, 01:41 AM
There is the "Alchemic Savant" PP in EPG

!!!
I overlooked paragon paths even though in 3.5 it was a paragon path?! It even uses the same name as it did in 3.5!

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 01:44 AM
when did 3.5 have paragon paths?

Prestige class you mean?

Kurald Galain
2010-08-10, 02:51 AM
How can you be so sure?

Because from WOTC previews we pretty much know which classes are in the works, and from history we know they tend to give more emphasis to "iconic" classes, which the alchemist is not. The next classes are publically known to be a reprint of fighter, wizard, cleric, thief, druid, paladin, ranger, and warlock; and the bladedancer, necromancer, and hexblade.

felinoel
2010-08-10, 11:10 AM
when did 3.5 have paragon paths?

Prestige class you mean?I didn't care to bother with stating both the 3.5 name and 4.0 name of the same thing just because Gygax died thus allowing WotC to ruin his creation
Because from WOTC previews we pretty much know which classes are in the works, and from history we know they tend to give more emphasis to "iconic" classes, which the alchemist is not. The next classes are publically known to be a reprint of fighter, wizard, cleric, thief, druid, paladin, ranger, and warlock; and the bladedancer, necromancer, and hexblade.Ummm, but yea... it already is made though? Alchemist Savant? The PrC/Paragon Path I overlooked that was just being talked about?

Kurald Galain
2010-08-10, 11:15 AM
Ummm, but yea... it already is made though? Alchemist Savant? The PrC/Paragon Path I overlooked that was just being talked about?

Tengu was talking about an alchemist class, not a paragon path.

Yes, the PP exists, in the Eberron Player's Guide if I recall correctly. It is fairly unimpressive, though; you'd be better off with any other artificer PP.

felinoel
2010-08-10, 03:43 PM
Tengu was talking about an alchemist class, not a paragon path.

Yes, the PP exists, in the Eberron Player's Guide if I recall correctly. It is fairly unimpressive, though; you'd be better off with any other artificer PP.Well I was talking about anything alchemy related

Evard
2010-08-10, 04:58 PM
Darlin the game was ruined way before he died... ha!

felinoel
2010-08-10, 09:09 PM
Darlin the game was ruined way before he died... ha!
Disputably, but 4e is way too dumbed down
I know I know with it dumbed down they can reach a wider market and make more money, but come on Y^Y

Lord Raziere
2010-08-10, 09:43 PM
how is it dumbed down? I like it, 4E is an improvement. 3.5 was too clunky and imbalanced.

Boci
2010-08-10, 09:45 PM
how is it dumbed down? I like it, 4E is an improvement. 3.5 was too clunky and imbalanced.

Classes all work off the same template I guess.

Evard
2010-08-10, 09:52 PM
He might even mean the skills... I heard that 4e isn't as skill focused but everytime I play in a campy we use skills all the time...

That or he is just one of those 3.0 3.5 fanatics and don't like change >.> If 4e was called something like Ooglops and Battles then the system and everything would be fine >.>

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 09:57 PM
If its dumbed down then don't play it

That or stop complaining

felinoel
2010-08-10, 10:03 PM
how is it dumbed down? I like it, 4E is an improvement. 3.5 was too clunky and imbalanced.The clunk was fun, and the imbalance was a lie


Classes all work off the same template I guess.That is one way, yes


He might even mean the skills... I heard that 4e isn't as skill focused but everytime I play in a campy we use skills all the time...

That or he is just one of those 3.0 3.5 fanatics and don't like change >.> If 4e was called something like Ooglops and Battles then the system and everything would be fine >.>No I was fine with the changes from 3.0 to 3.5, and I even looked forward to 4.0, but then it came out and I tried it...
True, if it wasn't called Dungeons and Dragons I would be fine with it, because then it would be a different game


If its dumbed down then don't play it

That or stop complainingI didn't for a while, but then this guy from my work was complaining about how he bought a 4.0 campaign book by accident and now he has to learn 4.0 and since I had moderate experience I told him I might as well try to help him with it




But this is getting a tad off-topic, how do I lock this thread or something? The question has been answered and its purpose has come to an end.

DeltaEmil
2010-08-10, 10:04 PM
The clunk was fun, and the imbalance was a lie
That sentence is a lie.

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 10:05 PM
Fighter and Wizard

Felinoel you loose

felinoel
2010-08-10, 10:09 PM
That sentence is a lie.Not as much as the cake


Fighter and Wizard

Felinoel you looseLoose? As in a slut or something? o.O
Odd statement to make?

Besides, I blame you for part of my distaste towards this new version, my first game in it you made me a spellcaster and you forgot to give me spell components and threw me in the middle of a dungeon, then when you noticed I had no spell components you forced me to wait until we got out of the dungeon and made it to some town with a spell shop before I could cast any spells, which was at least five sessions if not more

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 10:12 PM
There is no spell components as a cleric for their powers

felinoel
2010-08-10, 10:14 PM
There is no spell components as a cleric for their powersWas I a cleric? I know I had trouble doing something while not having something that you forgot to put on my character sheet, which included weapons and armor and other gear

I don't recall me being a cleric... ever... I mean I was a druid a couple times and that is kind of like a cleric?

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 10:15 PM
First game you were a Cleric ... a Cherry Blossom treant cleric and your Cup was your holy symbol (basic no + )

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 10:16 PM
Druid didn't come out for another year when you was out of college

felinoel
2010-08-10, 10:18 PM
First game you were a Cleric ... a Cherry Blossom treant cleric and your Cup was your holy symbol (basic no + )Cherry Blossom treant sapling cleric you mean
Druid didn't come out for another year when you was out of collegeHmmm, that would explain why I was a cleric then? I think I still have the character sheet somewhere on my external though, hmmm

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 10:22 PM
You had bunny head roots also...

Ah back when I put a couple seconds of thought into it

felinoel
2010-08-10, 10:24 PM
You had bunny head roots also...

Ah back when I put a couple seconds of thought into itI thought that was the result of some curse?

Nope, no character sheet, what I thought it was turned out to be my image of the character, lol I forgot about the beret I made from the head of a panda as this character

Ah the old days, maybe I should make my alchemist less serious and more fun like back then

SSGoW
2010-08-10, 10:27 PM
yes with a bearet

felinoel
2010-08-10, 10:32 PM
A dragon uses Flyby Attack and ends its turn 35 feet above you. How do you kill it without using magic?Ha, mount my celestial rhino with its robe of flight as my Risen Martyr/Paladin of Freedom and charge to attack

Are there Paladins of Freedom in 4.0? Oh wait... 4.0 got rid of the BEST alignment EVER. What will the Blues Brothers be classified as now?!

Faleldir
2010-08-10, 10:36 PM
I deleted my post for a reason. This is off topic.
Anyone who plays a Risen Martyr has already lost anyway.

felinoel
2010-08-10, 11:28 PM
I deleted my post for a reason. This is off topic.
Anyone who plays a Risen Martyr has already lost anyway.I did it for the free rez, my DM for some reason kept killing me off and my party said the next time I died they weren't paying for the rez so I just took the prereqs for the PrC and waited to die again, which happened soon enough

I already said this is offtopic, I even asked how to lock this thread to stop further posts?

Faleldir
2010-08-10, 11:45 PM
I acknowledge that I have seen your reply and will stop posting in this thread.

Leolo
2010-08-11, 04:56 AM
To say something about alchemy:

Of course there are some useful items that you could create with alchemy. And if you play in a one shot adventure than it might be even better to buy some of them instead of a magical item that you can always use (because you might use them more often and they are cheaper)

For example the difference between a magic armor +2 and a battleforge armor +2 is 3200gp.

That would be about 10-15 alchemical items of level 9-10. For example eyesting that blinds a opponent what is a very strong condition. Or it could be much more items of lower level, the cheapest cost only 20gp (and antivenom would be still useful at lvl 9)

But in a long campaign magical items are better.

Grogmir
2010-08-11, 06:06 AM
I wrote a bard for my better half, Alchemy really fills out some gaps and gives tactical options.

Be it a Blasts, Status effects whatever, having that little bottle allows you to do stuff - you wouldn't normally be able to do.

Yeah it aint as strong as a normal attack, but thats not the way to look at it.

Kurald Galain
2010-08-11, 07:21 AM
Yeah it aint as strong as a normal attack, but thats not the way to look at it.
Well, actually, it is. Whenever your turn comes around, you have to decide whether to use a normal attack (which is stronger, more accurate, and free) or an alchemy item (which is weaker, more likely to miss, and costs you money). Tactically, that's a very easy decision.

Leolo
2010-08-11, 08:36 AM
At least that is true in some cases.

But there are also alchemical items that does not need an action to activate (for example bloodstinger poison but also the several blastpatches if you use them for an ambush) or does not need an standard action.

Also some alchemical items are actually better than an "normal" attack. For example it might be better to blind an opponent than to attack him and do some damage.

Other alchemical items are useful out of combat or to avoid it.

It is not exactly awesome, but if you consider it as optional the items might be fine. In fact it might be better to have a bloodstinger poisoned weapon than to have for example a weapon that could inflict 5 ongoing damage once per day. Because the poison is cheaper and you could do it as often as you want. A wounding weapon +2 is 2400gp more expensive than a normal weapon +2.

Thats about 20 lvl 8 bloodstinger poison doses. And they do not expend magic item daily uses. (But might trigger poison feats for further benefits)

The weapon might be already sold before the deal pays off. But this is only one example...you could easily find better weapons or worse alchemical items. And it would be still better to have both the weapon and a single dose of the poison anyway, so focussing on alchemy is not really needed. Sometimes a alchemical item is usefull and i do have some of them in any campaign. But they are not used frequently.

felinoel
2010-08-11, 01:21 PM
To say something about alchemy:

Of course there are some useful items that you could create with alchemy. And if you play in a one shot adventure than it might be even better to buy some of them instead of a magical item that you can always use (because you might use them more often and they are cheaper)

For example the difference between a magic armor +2 and a battleforge armor +2 is 3200gp.

That would be about 10-15 alchemical items of level 9-10. For example eyesting that blinds a opponent what is a very strong condition. Or it could be much more items of lower level, the cheapest cost only 20gp (and antivenom would be still useful at lvl 9)

But in a long campaign magical items are better.I don't know how long the campaign will be, but alchemy just gives it more flavor


I wrote a bard for my better half, Alchemy really fills out some gaps and gives tactical options.

Be it a Blasts, Status effects whatever, having that little bottle allows you to do stuff - you wouldn't normally be able to do.

Yeah it aint as strong as a normal attack, but thats not the way to look at it.Indeed, the way to look at it is that it is more fun than a normal attack


Well, actually, it is. Whenever your turn comes around, you have to decide whether to use a normal attack (which is stronger, more accurate, and free) or an alchemy item (which is weaker, more likely to miss, and costs you money). Tactically, that's a very easy decision.Tactically it is, but not so tactically and instead fun-wise, the choice is alchemy


At least that is true in some cases.

But there are also alchemical items that does not need an action to activate (for example bloodstinger poison but also the several blastpatches if you use them for an ambush) or does not need an standard action.

Also some alchemical items are actually better than an "normal" attack. For example it might be better to blind an opponent than to attack him and do some damage.

Other alchemical items are useful out of combat or to avoid it.

It is not exactly awesome, but if you consider it as optional the items might be fine. In fact it might be better to have a bloodstinger poisoned weapon than to have for example a weapon that could inflict 5 ongoing damage once per day. Because the poison is cheaper and you could do it as often as you want. A wounding weapon +2 is 2400gp more expensive than a normal weapon +2.

Thats about 20 lvl 8 bloodstinger poison doses. And they do not expend magic item daily uses. (But might trigger poison feats for further benefits)Yea but from what I know about poisons, which is from 3.5, is that anyone of sufficient level to give enough xp to be a bother enough to poison with have strong enough fort saves to survive any and every poison, is this still true in 4e?


The weapon might be already sold before the deal pays off. But this is only one example...you could easily find better weapons or worse alchemical items. And it would be still better to have both the weapon and a single dose of the poison anyway, so focussing on alchemy is not really needed. Sometimes a alchemical item is usefull and i do have some of them in any campaign. But they are not used frequently.Yea but I tend to play games to have fun, not to maximize damage

Leolo
2010-08-11, 01:33 PM
Yea but from what I know about poisons, which is from 3.5, is that anyone of sufficient level to give enough xp to be a bother enough to poison with have strong enough fort saves to survive any and every poison, is this still true in 4e?


There are no fort saves any more. ^^

But the poison mentioned above does attack fortitude. The attack itself is in general not that bad, because alchemical item attack modifier grow stronger than player character attack modifiers (1 per level against one half per level).

But some monsters are immune or resistant to poison, so this might be a problem if you do not have the ability to ignore this. So (no surprise of course) its best used by poison themed characters that not only can ignore such resistances but increase the usefullness of poison.

Kurald Galain
2010-08-11, 01:36 PM
Yea but from what I know about poisons, which is from 3.5, is that anyone of sufficient level to give enough xp to be a bother enough to poison with have strong enough fort saves to survive any and every poison, is this still true in 4e?
With this poison, yes, this is still true. That is because it does hit point damage, and any sufficiently dangerous enemy to make it worth using poison on will have such a boatload of hit points that "ongoing 5" isn't going to dent it.

At any rate, the best alchemical items are (1) any area effects, particularly if your class doesn't have any, and (2) anything that doesn't take a standard action in combat (some require a minor, and some like that blastpatch can be used before combat). Incidentally this also covers the most flashy items, and in my opinion flashy = fun.

Also, it's a good idea to take Quickdraw, or some other way of drawing items without taking actions.

felinoel
2010-08-11, 02:07 PM
There are no fort saves any more. ^^

But the poison mentioned above does attack fortitude. The attack itself is in general not that bad, because alchemical item attack modifier grow stronger than player character attack modifiers (1 per level against one half per level).

But some monsters are immune or resistant to poison, so this might be a problem if you do not have the ability to ignore this. So (no surprise of course) its best used by poison themed characters that not only can ignore such resistances but increase the usefullness of poison.How does one do drinking contests then?

So fort is now like AC? A set number and only that? That explains the +10 to it

If poison is ineffective then I could switch to fire?


With this poison, yes, this is still true. That is because it does hit point damage, and any sufficiently dangerous enemy to make it worth using poison on will have such a boatload of hit points that "ongoing 5" isn't going to dent it.

At any rate, the best alchemical items are (1) any area effects, particularly if your class doesn't have any, and (2) anything that doesn't take a standard action in combat (some require a minor, and some like that blastpatch can be used before combat). Incidentally this also covers the most flashy items, and in my opinion flashy = fun.

Also, it's a good idea to take Quickdraw, or some other way of drawing items without taking actions.Flashy indeed equals fun

Quickdraw, oh good idea, I was thinking of storing different potions in stone shaped rings, does stone shape still exist as a druid spell? Could use a big rock and make 42 rings out of it with just one spell...

Kurald Galain
2010-08-11, 02:20 PM
How does one do drinking contests then?
Skill checks, presumably.



So fort is now like AC? A set number and only that? That explains the +10 to it
Yes. 10 + str or con modifier + half level + item bonus, basically.



If poison is ineffective then I could switch to fire?
Fire is the two most frequently resisted damage types. Not that that should bother you: resistances are rather easy to ignore. Poison can be tricky in that pretty much all undead are flat out immune.


I was thinking of storing different potions in stone shaped rings, does stone shape still exist as a druid spell?
I don't think Stone Shape exist in 4E, and most alchemical items aren't potions, and the rules do not contain a ring that allows you to put a potion in it.

Again, not that this should bother you, but 4E is a very different game from (as it seems from your posts) what you expect it to be.

Evard
2010-08-11, 04:24 PM
How does one do drinking contests then?

So fort is now like AC? A set number and only that? That explains the +10 to it

If poison is ineffective then I could switch to fire?

Flashy indeed equals fun

Quickdraw, oh good idea, I was thinking of storing different potions in stone shaped rings, does stone shape still exist as a druid spell? Could use a big rock and make 42 rings out of it with just one spell...


Drinking contest would be just like an attack... Technically the alcohol DOES attack your system :P

Halfling ale + 1 vs. fort (Dwarves are immune)
On a hit the creature takes 1d4 non-lethal ongoing damage

Human ale +10 vs fort (dwarves are immune)
On a hit the creature takes 1d8 non lethal ongoing damage

Dwarven ale + 20 vs fort (takes a -19 against Dwarves)
On a hit the creature takes 1d12 (brutal 6) non lethal ongoing damage

*special all* You continue to take ongoing damage when you hit 0 hp (and you are passed out) this damage is now lethal damage.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-11, 04:26 PM
Nah, I'd make it an Endurance Skill Challenge - possibly with a "poison attack" vs. FORT after each failure to take a -2 on all future Endurance checks (Save Ends).

felinoel
2010-08-11, 05:09 PM
Skill checks, presumably.??
Which skill? It used to be a roll plus your fort save right? That way there was a chance? Now it is just compare your fort scores and that is just boring


Fire is the two most frequently resisted damage types. Not that that should bother you: resistances are rather easy to ignore. Poison can be tricky in that pretty much all undead are flat out immune.Then some other element?


I don't think Stone Shape exist in 4E, and most alchemical items aren't potions, and the rules do not contain a ring that allows you to put a potion in it.Sigh, it can be specifically forged then, also sorry, I meant powder not potion


Again, not that this should bother you, but 4E is a very different game from (as it seems from your posts) what you expect it to be.I don't know what I expected, but a completely different game with so many different rules and many things that use the same name but is completely different is not it

Evard
2010-08-11, 05:34 PM
Encounter power (means you have to rest a short while before you do it again)

Stone Shape: Arcane standard action
Target: 1 5 foot by 5 foot square (this goes up as you level up) and you can use less stone if you wish.
Effect: You can change the shape of the stone into any form you want, the volume of the original stone must stay the same

This power can't produce any type of weapon better than a boulder of the size re-shaped.

felinoel
2010-08-11, 06:12 PM
Encounter power (means you have to rest a short while before you do it again)

Stone Shape: Arcane standard action
Target: 1 5 foot by 5 foot square (this goes up as you level up) and you can use less stone if you wish.
Effect: You can change the shape of the stone into any form you want, the volume of the original stone must stay the same

This power can't produce any type of weapon better than a boulder of the size re-shaped.Yay, super complicatedly designed rings of holding alchemical products and ingredients is possible to be made cheaply, just one 5 by 5 foor square rock can make 42 rings easy

Grogmir
2010-08-11, 06:47 PM
Well, actually, it is. Whenever your turn comes around, you have to decide whether to use a normal attack (which is stronger, more accurate, and free) or an alchemy item (which is weaker, more likely to miss, and costs you money). Tactically, that's a very easy decision.

But if you don't have a normal attack that can get the job done.

Recent example - Ramaging Giant Wild Boar - charging each turn for massive damage bonuses, controlling already down, Bard throws a tanglefoot bag. Immoblized, she had no other way of doing that and it was far more effective than a Norm.
Or the time she used Acid fire to set fire to the haybales the Gnolls were using for cover.

Alchemy is a decent way to pad out your functionality, brake away from the monotony of battle and surprise your DM! :smallsmile:

Evard
2010-08-11, 06:54 PM
Yes but how will it hold the item?


Also... tangle foot bags are the best thing ever :3

felinoel
2010-08-11, 06:58 PM
But if you don't have a normal attack that can get the job done.

Recent example - Ramaging Giant Wild Boar - charging each turn for massive damage bonuses, controlling already down, Bard throws a tanglefoot bag. Immoblized, she had no other way of doing that and it was far more effective than a Norm.
Or the time she used Acid fire to set fire to the haybales the Gnolls were using for cover.

Alchemy is a decent way to pad out your functionality, brake away from the monotony of battle and surprise your DM! :smallsmile:The monotomy of battle is something I dislike greatly


Yes but how will it hold the item?


Also... tangle foot bags are the best thing ever :3The alchemical ingredients? Ummm just grind them up? If a tiny pouch can hold spell material components, then a ring can hold single material components sorted by ring, besides, I could put a spell of holding in some of them to make the room in the rings bigger?

felinoel
2010-08-11, 09:46 PM
Ack! I just lost this place I found tons of alchemical items, I am sure it was a Dragon magazine... maybe?

Anyone know where I can find some alchemical products?