Can a store actually do this?

[onthetown]

You know what? Nevermind. They can't sue me over this -- I'm free to post it.

The background: I bought a helmet and the straps appeared to fall off. I got horrible customer service and I emailed the president of teh company, only to be jerked around and accused of lying.

The emails:

Dear -:

I have been treated with the worst service I could ever imagine over the past few weeks, all because I bought a bad helmet from your company.

I bought my new International helmet from -, in Canada, only about a month ago. After three weeks, during which I only used the helmet twice and was keeping it safely to preserve its quality, I picked it up for a third time by the hard part of the helmet and the straps came out of the helmet. I could not get them back in or figure out how to fix the problem.

I went back to - to ask for a return, because the straps affected the helmet's stability. I simply wanted my money back so that I could buy a sturdier helmet. I was given your return policy, which states that I must call a 1-800 number and get a "return number" to write on the front of the box.

I called the 1-800 number and a lady by the name of - took my call. I explained that the straps had fallen out of the helmet, and I wanted my money back so that I could buy a better helmet. Instead of giving me a return number, she spent nearly fifteen minutes on the phone condescending me and treating me like a child. She said that she didn't believe me and implied that I was lying to her to try to get money. She said that it was just impossible for the straps to fall out of the helmet because of some sort of weaving, and she had done this for 15 years without ever seeing this happen. She was very closed-minded to my situation based on her own experience. When she found out that I am in Canada, she claimed that the number I called did not process Canadian returns, so - had given me the wrong return policy or the wrong number -- which, I imagine, was sent to - by your company.

Finally, - conceded that I could send her the helmet, but she was very adamant about it and claimed that your company does not give returns for helmets. She would only replace it.

I'm sure you can understand that I don't trust your company at this time, so I decided not to send it to - and I went back to -. The lady at - gave me a full refund and told me she would send me a message when a new shipment of helmets came in for me to try on.

Today, I found out that now - doesn't do returns, either, and wants me to go back into their store and buy back the International helmet that is not safe to ride in. They say that the straps had simply come loose and fallen "out of the loop" in the back of the helmet. Even if they have fixed the helmet, I do not want to buy it or risk wearing it while I am riding -- why would I want to wear a "safety" device that has easily come loose, without any provocation from me or anybody else, after only three weeks of barely using it?

I will not be buying any of your products in the future and I will be telling everybody I know to spread the word that your company is untrustworthy and unwilling to accept that you may make a bad helmet once in awhile, to the point where you will compromise a rider's safety to preserve your reputation. I would not be surprised if more people had stories similar to mine but simply did not want to rock the boat.

Sincerely,

onthetown

----

Dear onthetown,

Please give me a telephone number where I can reach you and I will call you as soon as I receive your number.

Sincerely,
-
President, -

----

We had a phone conversation and then he hung up on me, claiming he was going to call the store I bought the helmet from.

----

Dear onthetown,

I spoke to - at -, and there was nothing wrong with your helmet.

No straps came out and I think you took off the buckle and did not know how to replace it.

Next time something happens in life it is nice to tell the truth and not to point finger and make false acquisitions.

-

----

Dear -:

To me, it honestly looked like the straps fell out, as I tried to tell you on the phone.

Maybe I rubbed the buckle against something when I picked it up and then it came loose, but I don't know where the buckle that came loose is. The only things on the helmet that I actually used are the dial and the buckle under my chin.

I was hoping you would be more concerned with the horrible customer service I received in returns but, judging from your response, I guess you just wanted to make sure that you wouldn't be losing any money from me.

Have a little faith that I really was just trying to solve what I thought was a problem. I'll be buying back the helmet next week, so you'll still get your profit from it.

I'm glad to know that - still sells quality products, but my next helmet will definitely be from a company that doesn't treat their customers like ignorant children just because they don't understand how a situation happened.

Sincerely,

onthetown

----

Yes, there was xenophobia toward Canadians in one of the phone conversations, but right now I don't care about that. This man treated me so horribly and in the end he's accusing me of lying like a child.

[Moonshadow]

Uh, what? You already returned it, and now they've turned around and said 'lol sorry, we don't do returns'?

I'm calling shenanigans here. You gave them back the item, they gave you back the money. Way I see it, transaction is finished.

[WalkingTarget]

I don't think they have a leg to stand on. You brought back an item you'd purchased under the impression that it had broken. They looked at the item and gave you your money back and only later determined that it was not, in fact, broken. They accepted the return at the time, so the fact that it's "against policy" or whatever is pretty much irrelevant. It's an odd situation, but from what I get out of your story I don't think that they can force you to re-buy the item.

[Ichneumon]

Although I don't know if there are any laws on it, I'd say common sense is at your side. You returned the item they gave you back the money. It wouldn't be reasonable for a store to demand you to rebuy the product.

[Pyrian]

"Do you think I'm going to actually wear a 'safety' device that spontaneously and inexplicably comes apart?"

[SpiderMew]

Dont go in. She's only trying to save her job by making you re-buy a screwed up product. Small town, Shmall town...... You have your money, she has the helmet and not even small clames court would make you buy it again.

[SpiderMew]

Yeah then wate for your mom. You do not have to go re-buy the helmet, and you shouldnt let her status intimadate you.

[IonDragon]

she...would like me to come back and pick it up and pay for it again at my earliest convenience.

What am I supposed to do? I don't want to go buy back that stupid helmet, but I can't (in good conscience) just ignore her facebook message and never go get it.
In short, yes they can do that. Do you know how I know they can? Because they did. It seems to me, she was just trying to help you out by giving you a refund, and is asking you to do the same for her by buying the helmet again as they will probably be unable to either sell or return it.

Do you HAVE TO go buy that helmet? Of course not, there's nothing obligating you from reopening a closed transaction or even continuing to do business with that store at all. They could blacklist you (you know, have your picture in the back room saying "Don't take returns from this person, or sell them anything!!!") but I rather doubt they would do that.

My mom once got a nice patio set from a junk shop for $25 instead of $250 as it was supposed to be sold for. They politely asked her for the difference and she responded "LOLNO" and never shopped there again. Not because they wouldn't let her, she just didn't try.

[Ichneumon]

You are perfecltly in your right to get a refund, always, even if the store says they don't do it. You are in no way forced to buy that helmet again. Wait for your mother and don't let yourself be intimidated.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

I suggest trying to call the number for the company, as the odds of getting the same witch on the phone you talked with before are probably fairly small. But, if in the off chance you do, and she's a jerk again to you, ask to speak to her manager, explain the situation to him (including how much of a jerk the woman has been to you) and see what he says. Now, if he's a jerk too, find out the corporate HQ address for the company, and send them a letter explaining the situation. Tell them you're mad at how they've treated you (eloquently of course), that you like their products, but they way the company has handled this is so poor you will never buy from them again and see what they do in response.

[pendell]

I went to the store I bought it from to try to return it, and they gave me the helmet's company's return policy. I called the number on the paper and a very rude woman from New Jersey spent half an hour condenscending me and telling me that she didn't believe me because, and I quote, "I don't deal with Canadians, especially ones who want to lie to me about things that don't happen." She then went on a rant about how all Canadians must think she's stupid because she's American. I didn't think that before the conversation, but she sure as hell changed my mind. Then she went on to tell me that the store had given me the wrong number to call for Canadian returns (thanks for finally telling me) and that the straps just couldn't have done that anyway because of a certain way that they're woven into the helmet and some other crap that she went on and on about for a few minutes.


Suggestion.

The next time anyone on the phone says this to you, respond with two sentences.

"I want to speak to your supervisor. Please transfer me now."

Then explain to the supervisor exactly what was said and why. Ask if it is seriously company policy for her employees to be rude to customers, especially ones who are already somewhat dissatisfied.

I dunno how it works at other companies, but in companies *I* have experience in -- if that kind of rudeness is verified the operator in question will be headed to the unemployment line that same hour. We don't need people like that on our phones.

Okay , we might give them another chance if they're a brand new hire or the boss' relative or something. But at the very least they're going to find some other job that doesn't involve interfacing with the public.

I second the recommendation to get your parents to come along. They make useful shields to hide behind -- say you need their permission, get them in the loop. Don't allow yourself to be intimidated.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ponderthought]

Ignore them and get on with your life.

[Porthos]

The next time anyone on the phone says this to you, respond with two sentences.

"I want to speak to your supervisor. Please transfer me now."

This.

ALWAYS this in this sort of situation.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

@ onthetown. If that woman deals with all returns, then find a number or way to contact someone higher up the chain than her to explain the situation to. Just because she's a jerk and doesn't want to deal with the problem doesn't mean everyone in that organization is like that. I would recommend sending an actual letter to the company too in addition to the email as it really has more impact. Spending the time to type/print a hard copy of a letter to a company can have a far bigger impact and really can make a company know you mean business if you're willing to go the extra mile and do something like that. And it's far easier to ignore/delete an email than something hard copy in my opinion.

[Winter_Wolf]

If the person at the store accepted you return and refunded you your money, then there's nothing to discuss. The employee might not have known that she couldn't accept a return on that item, and the management probably threatened to take it out of her paycheck, but that's NOT your problem.

Also, you were contacted on Facebook. IF it's really an issue, go in and speak with the store manager present and hash it out. Bring your parental unit(s) to this as well. In any event, I would absolutely not buy a defective helmet back from these clowns.

[Porthos]

I would also think about that if this is such a small town that you could start telling everyone about your experience at this store. They might find it interesting the way that management of that store treats their customers (and presumably their employees if the salesperson is being pressured here).

In other words, if you are worried about the social pressure being put upon you because you know the salesperson and worry that it might affect your relationship with her, just remember that you can make life difficult for management in return.

Just something to drop into casual conversation if management gives you a hard time over all of this.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Geeeeze...

Ok, now picture this. Imagine that you had to go to a house every day and fit someone with this helmet. It breaks every time or does something equally unsuitable for use. While you are still there the customer calls customer service and gets a woman like that. You go through the whole rigmarole, speak with customer service, customer speaks with them, manager is spoken to, and you stand there for hours in argument.

That was my job as a Dish Network satellite TV installer. Those who sold them the services lied to them and I had to go through this every day for a year, with both customer service, the customer, and my manager yelling at me for something I had no control over.

I refuse to work any job that provides a service ever again.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

I've received a (very prompt) email reply from the president of IRH:

Dear Kris,

Please give me a telephone number where I can reach you and I will call you as soon as I receive your number.

Sincerely,
Frank Plastino
President, IRH

I will update after my conversation with him :)

Well, if the President of the company is willing to talk to you, that clearly says to me that no matter what some idiot woman in returns does, they do indeed care about their customers, and obviously still want your business and to make sure you're happy with the products they make. Not a whole lot of companies have the guts to actually do that.


Geeeeze...

Ok, now picture this. Imagine that you had to go to a house every day and fit someone with this helmet. It breaks every time or does something equally unsuitable for use. While you are still there the customer calls customer service and gets a woman like that. You go through the whole rigmarole, speak with customer service, customer speaks with them, manager is spoken to, and you stand there for hours in argument.

That was my job as a Dish Network satellite TV installer. Those who sold them the services lied to them and I had to go through this every day for a year, with both customer service, the customer, and my manager yelling at me for something I had no control over.

I refuse to work any job that provides a service ever again.

Sounds a lot like Comcast too (it seems that all tv providers are awful). Comcast claims they care about their customers, but we've had issues with channels that don't come in clearly. We've told Comcast about this several times now, they say they're going to come out and see if they can figure out what the issue is and look at the stuff at the street, yet never seem to show up and actually do something. I think they're probably one of the worst companies I've come across in terms of actually caring about customers.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm happy with the quick reply I got.

I'm just waiting for the call right now. I'm trying to prepare myself for it because I'm fairly nervous... I'm writing out my goals of what I want to get from this conversation. Obviously, an apology for that monster's behaviour. I don't want to be obligated to buy back the helmet. I want the correct phone number to call for Canadian returns so that I can give it to Greenhawk. And I think they should make their return policy more accessible.

I'll settle for the first two, though.

Stick with the facts of what happened, and how you feel about how the company/woman reacted. I would try not to rant about what's happened, just be calm. You can suggest what you would like to happen as well.

[Fiery Diamond]

...
Wow.
...
I am amazed. At this whole fiasco.
...
I feel for you.

[IonDragon]

I'll settle for the first two, though.
Don't settle for less than you feel you deserve. And general advice for negotiating: Aim higher than you expect to achieve so they can nock you down a few pegs and put you right where you'd like to be anyway. You get what you wanted from the start and they get to feel like they made some progress (similar tactic to what car sales people do with the sticker price).

EDIT: You should direct him here if he does call back. His company has definitely lost my money (not that I ride, in fact I find horses much too docile, like cows that run. I'm more of a dog person. Big dogs. Ones that can kill me or larger).

[Keld Denar]

Does Canadia have a version of the Better Business Bureau? I've had good luck with sending them a nastygram and getting VERY serious responses from the company. Its all fun and games until you bring somene's INTERNATIONAL reputation into it. Thats about as high as you can raise the stakes, short of a law suite (which I don't suggest in this case, its only $100).

Mention that you've spoken with the president of the company and you aren't satisfied with his focus on customer service. Cite EVERYTHING you've told us so far, including the anti-Canadian...racism? Nationism? Somethingism? That is a MASSIVE black mark against a company. Also, most companies keep recordings of phone conversations (for training and QUALITY CONTROL purposes)...ask the president to be provided with a recording of your talk with Ms. Roberta. Don't let him change the topic, and if he does, call him out on it. Say: Sir, I appreciate your focus on the quality of your product, but I'm addressing the quality of your customer service right now. When I'm satisfied, we'll talk about the quality of your product. Otherwise, he'll just keep changing the topic to smokescreen the obvious problem.

Honestly, if I was you, I'd be more outraged at the service than the product. Products break. I work in manufacturing, even the most stringent quality control process as a degree of error that can not be removed (or is too expensive to remove). If they had just accepted this, refunded the product, and been done with it, they wouldn't have the problem they have. Instead, they've bullied you, mistreated you, slandered you, and from the looks of it, may be attempting to cover the whole ordeal up. Don't stand for that.

[Pocketa]

Shenanigans, report them to a consumer watchdog group, and block'm.

[Ilena]

Ignore them and get on with your life.

The thing is if your into horses its one of the most interconnected (i think) communities you can imagine, i have a friend who can go anywhere there is riders and find someone she knows. So word of mouth is VERY big in the industry. Something like this could sink a company easily :P But i hope everything goes ok for you, it is nice the CEO of the company DID talk to you even if he sounds like a bit of an idiot, myself i should wear a helmet but cant really afford it, one thing that might help is I was told by someone at my local store here, that a bike helmet would work too, just doesnt look as good. But both still protect.

Hope everything works out for ya.

[Dr. Bath]

including the anti-Canadian...racism? Nationism? Somethingism?


Xenophobia.

Also threads don't get deleted generally. Also also pretty sure complaining on the internet is never going to get you sued ever, so don't worry about it.

[enigmatime]

Wow

Just... Wow.

I have never been through that before but I have to say... Your awesome for sticking up for yourself. You fought off racism, talked to the President of that company, and you're fighting jerks like us Americans. I applaud you. It is people like that Roberta that give America a horrible name.

In terms of all of this, I have nothing new to suggest. I respect you.

Edit: By the way, is there a group for this on Facebook? I will join it right away.

[IonDragon]

Also threads don't get deleted generally. Also also pretty sure complaining on the internet is never going to get you sued ever, so don't worry about it.

Also "Any...(body)...that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

Ben Franklin said that. Exercise your right to complain. You can complain as much as you like about anything that has happened until they serve you with a cease and desist.

[onthetown]

Edited at the top.

I'm just horrified by all of this. What a bunch of jerks.

I'm going to go buy back my helmet next week, because they can show me how to do up the part that came apart if it happens again.

The store chain manager lady was very kind to me, which is the only reason I'm considering buying it back. She doesn't hold anything against me even after all of this and she's still very patient with me.

[Forever Curious]

*resist urge to alert Anonymous*

Once again, my faith in humanity is reduced to ashes. My condolences.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Locked by OP request.