View Full Version : Greater Manyshot vs Full Attack

Darius Rae
2010-08-09, 10:31 AM
What it says in the title. In what situations is Greater Manyshot superior to a Full Attack?

The only advantage I can see is that you can move an Greater Manyshot, at a huge penalty. You can only 5 foot step and Full Attack. Assume I have a way to move 20ft as a free action, and that I am playing a swift hunter with a good BAB. Is there ever a time that I would use Greater Manyshot over a Rapid Shot Full Attack? Is Greater Manyshot only useful when you have to take a Move Action and then a Standard Action?

Supporting maths (yes its plural, like the internets) or in game experience would be greatly appreciated.

2010-08-09, 10:31 AM
You get precision damage on each arrow, I think.

2010-08-09, 10:34 AM
Exactly. Also, Surprise Rounds. Also, Factotums. And as mentioned in the OP, Scouts. But it's not useful to everyone.


RMS Oceanic
2010-08-09, 10:37 AM
Scouts benefit the most from Greater Manyshot, I think.

You have either +15/+10/+5 at 1d8+STR or move 10 feet and get +9/+9/+9 at 1d8+5d6+STR per arrow. And if you took improved skirmish and move 20 feet instead, that improves to 1d8+7d6+STR

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-08-09, 10:46 AM
Aside from the whole "multiple attacks as a standard action is great" and "trading a higher attack bonus for more precision damage" issues, it's also helpful when your attack bonus is such that your first two attacks would normally hit and your second two don't, since a -8 penalty puts it right above your third iterative bonus. For instance, you can use RS + full attack to get two good hits in on the BBEG or GM to get four good hits in on his minions, so even if you don't have a source of extra damage you can clear the field faster. It's not always useful, but it's a nice option to have for a dedicated archer.

2010-08-09, 10:51 AM
It's advantageous when you only have a standard action. Such cases include:
- Surprise Round
- Moving (especially if using Flyby Attack)
- Gaining extra Standard Actions (Celerity, Belt of Battle, Anticipatory Strike, Cunning Surge, etc.)
- Being denied actions (Slow-type effects)

It's also advantageous when you fight an opponent with AC under your To Hit (on higher levels, with archers in particular, it happens quite a bit). Your Greater Manyshot only takes -8 on every arrow so if your base To Hit is 6 higher than opponent's AC, they all hit on 2, while of your iteratives, the two latter ones have much more substantial penalties (-12 and -17 respectively, assuming Rapid Shot which you of course should be using).

Though it's still kinda not worth it since you're giving up an attack for a better chance at hitting with the fourth. But still, it's worth noting that it's not strictly worse in that case. So yeah, primarily Manyshot is used when you for a reason or another are restricted (or prefer; sometimes you'll want to move even if you strictly speaking could full attack - quite often in fact for an Archer) in your ability to take the full-round action and need a standard action attack with some punch.

Though Manyshot actually has the edge over Greater in some cases as a single attack roll is much easier to boost than multiples; True Strike, Fell Shot, Spot the Weak Point and so on enable a single touch attack/easy hit and Manyshot delivers some pain with just a single roll.

Greater's primary advantage is applying precision damage for each arrow and thus working great for a Skirmisher in particular, but also Sneak Attackers/Sudden Strikers (for these purposes, they're rather the same).

EDIT: Seems about everything I typed got ninja'd. Ah well, at least I was comprehensive.

2010-08-09, 11:50 AM
also true strike. afect the 1 attack, cause you aim and shot all arrows on 1 attack, so is +20 too all them ;)

2010-08-09, 12:30 PM
It's -2/-2/-7/-12/-17 vs. -8/-8/-8/-8
Looking at just the first 4 attacks, the average penalty is -5.75 AND there's one more minor attack.

Or -2/-2/-7/-12 vs. -6/-6/-6
Again, -3.7 average vs. -6, plus a minor extra attack.

A full attack is strictly better any time you can do it. BUT if you're using precision damage and need to be within 30 feet to get it, greater manyshot could have its uses. It depends if your DM uses battle fields much larger than 50 feet (10 inches in miniatures space). You can get around the attack penalty with feats like ranged weapon mastery, though with the minimal pre-reqs and large bonuses I think these are a little cheesy. Bracers of archery and a small race help too.