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View Full Version : Challange, make the most powerful level 1 possible



Blargg Grandig
2010-08-09, 11:09 AM
I propose a challange: Who can make the most powerful non-forgotten realms, level one build here? Feel free to use any other official sourcebooks, core or non for this task.

There is no cap or specifics for "power" it can be anything from doing a crapload of damage, to breaking the game.

I'll leave you at it and see what you come up with. Have fun :smallwink:

Tyndmyr
2010-08-09, 11:16 AM
IE, most powerful non-pun-pun.

I would suggest trawling the banned stuff from the arena/neverending dungeon. That stuff got banned for a reason, almost invariably because it's broken at level 1.

Morithias
2010-08-09, 12:16 PM
Human, Wizard, Fell Drain + Easy metamagic, use level 0 cantrip as a level 1 spell now that deals a negative level on a touch attack hit.

Will kill any other level 1 character that isn't immune to negative levels.

Eloel
2010-08-09, 12:22 PM
Human, Wizard, Fell Drain + Easy metamagic, use level 0 cantrip as a level 1 spell now that deals a negative level on a touch attack hit.

Will kill any other level 1 character that isn't immune to negative levels.

You're doing it wrong.

Try Sonic Snap as the cantrip for auto-hit, no save, no AC.

Flickerdart
2010-08-09, 12:37 PM
For characters who are immune to negative levels, Launch Bolt using Colossal crossbow bolts.

Siosilvar
2010-08-09, 12:42 PM
Ignoring ridiculous spell usage...

Totemist endurance build? Shape rageclaws and wormtail belt, wear as much armor as you can afford.

Rageclaws essentially give you another 10 hp (the 10 between 0 and -10) at no penalty. Wormtail Belt will give you +2 natural armor.

Hit things with a morningstar.

Eloel
2010-08-09, 12:49 PM
If you're set on doing melee;

Dragonborn Water Orc Barbarian with Greatsword, grab Power Attack, go for 18 Str/Con (assuming 32pb)

2d6+14 damage at +8 attack bonus while raging.
Also, 20hp while raging.

I can already hear the ka-boom.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-09, 12:56 PM
Javelin builds are good at level 1. Enough damage to generally instagib, and they can do so at range. Handy advantage.

For endurance, crusader builds are your friend.

Eldariel
2010-08-09, 01:00 PM
If you're set on doing melee;

Dragonborn Water Orc Barbarian with Greatsword, grab Power Attack, go for 18 Str/Con (assuming 32pb)

2d6+14 damage at +8 attack bonus while raging.
Also, 20hp while raging.

I can already hear the ka-boom.

You'll want some Dex; 18/14/16 tends to be vastly superior. This generates 22/12/20, which is alright tho bit low on Dex; every point counts on the first levels.

Also, Whirling Frenzy and Pounce are a gimme; 26 Str gives you +9 To hit so two attacks at +7 tends to be a vastly superior option, and with Pounce you can use 'em from anywhere. 2d6+12 x2 much? Average 42 damage and capable of dealing it even against Adamantine; 2 more with Power Attack if you pick it up, of course. Reckless Rage would add 1 more damage and To Hit. Tho I'd just pick Brutal Throw and benefit of being able to do it ranged too.

SurlySeraph
2010-08-09, 06:25 PM
Human, Wizard, Fell Drain + Easy metamagic, use level 0 cantrip as a level 1 spell now that deals a negative level on a touch attack hit.

Will kill any other level 1 character that isn't immune to negative levels.

Add Midnight Metamagic (+Azurin) or Metamagic School Focus (+ being a specialist Evoker) so you can do it with Magic Missile, and use Arcanist's Gloves (MiC) to do the same trick with Magic Missile. Auto-killing any two people of your level (three if you can raise your CL by 2 more, which isn't that hard) once per day (twice if you're a specialist Evoker) is a nice trick.

Alternately, a Warforged Crusader with Stone Power. Total pain in the ass to kill.

@V: I don't think templates work the way you think templates work.

Starbuck_II
2010-08-09, 06:34 PM
Rockman: Dwarf Dustform x20 + Incarnate x20 Lv 1 Barbarian
Stats:
Str 50 Dex 3 Con 18 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 8.
NA +2.
Hp 12 +4 =16.
Feat:
Power attack.

Terrible AC, but you kill anything you hit at low levels.
Why is Int 16? Because you roll stats 20 times (good chance of getting one 18 and a 16 for both stats).

Dwarf also gets best Prc so good advancement later. Shoot for Deepwarden for Con to AC because your AC sucks right now.

Fouredged Sword
2010-08-09, 06:44 PM
And if you can get you hands on a wand of control undead you can use those negative level slain foes. Anything killed by negative levels raises as a whight in 24 hours. Tie the body up and threaten to kill the whight if it dosen't fail it's save. Now you have a CR 3 minion that deals negative levels at level one.

What more as a natural whight it can create spawn! Spawn are loyal to the origonal, who is loyal to you. Army of life drinking undead at level one for the win!

herrhauptmann
2010-08-09, 06:51 PM
Add Midnight Metamagic (+Azurin) or Metamagic School Focus (+ being a specialist Evoker) so you can do it with Magic Missile, and use Arcanist's Gloves (MiC) to do the same trick with Magic Missile. Auto-killing any two people of your level (three if you can raise your CL by 2 more, which isn't that hard) once per day (twice if you're a specialist Evoker) is a nice trick.


Not really an autokill if you can get blocked by shield. Besides, you can't afford those gloves until after getting in a few fights and getting gold/equipment.

A warrior build with a net should do pretty well. Touch attack to net them, and opposed strength checks to control their movement. Even without those, they're now well and truly screwed, especially if you back up and start with the javelin next turn.



And if you can get you hands on a wand of control undead you can use those negative level slain foes. Anything killed by negative levels raises as a whight in 24 hours. Tie the body up and threaten to kill the whight if it dosen't fail it's save. Now you have a CR 3 minion that deals negative levels at level one.


Control undead is a 7th level spell. You can't put it in a wand. Period.
And if you could put it into a wand, a wand would cost over a 1000 gold for even 1 charge. (375*spell level * casterlevel * 2 for buying) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingWands). And that'll net you a grand 13 minutes.

Myth
2010-08-09, 07:20 PM
Inb4 level 1 Paladin and Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu.

I'd go for a Druid. Basically use Wild Empathy until you convince the nearest Dire Bear you can find to be your buddy (perhaps bring in buckets of fish for circumstantial bonuses to the roll).

silversnowe
2010-08-09, 09:55 PM
Eschewing D&D definitions of power...
High Int and Cha Aristocrat, with skills in Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Gather Infomation, Sense Motive, and several scrolls of Charm Person. Why do anything yourself when you can get other people to do it for you? :smallcool:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-08-09, 10:06 PM
Psychic Warrior 1, Expansion and Up The Walls. Make the character plus his gear weigh at least 500 pounds. Manifest Expansion (standard), run up a wall at least 10 feet and jump down onto as many as four opponents. You take no damage for having jumped down. As per falling object rules, those four opponents each take 20d6 damage, no attack roll, no saving throw.

Touchy
2010-08-09, 10:17 PM
Eschewing D&D definitions of power...
High Int and Cha Aristocrat, with skills in Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Gather Infomation, Sense Motive, and several scrolls of Charm Person. Why do anything yourself when you can get other people to do it for you? :smallcool:

High Int and Cha rogue, with skills in Bluff, Diplomancy, Intimidate, Gather Information, Sense motive, AND use magic device. Everything you can do I can do with more skill points and ranks in Use Magic Device. :smallcool:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-08-09, 10:24 PM
High Int and Cha rogue, with skills in Bluff, Diplomancy, Intimidate, Gather Information, Sense motive, AND use magic device. Everything you can do I can do with more skill points and ranks in Use Magic Device. :smallcool:

A first level Aristocrat gets about three times the starting wealth that a first level Rogue would get, so it can buy far more scrolls. Don't forget to buy a 'masterwork tool' for each of those skills to add a +2 Circumstance bonus.

Bosh
2010-08-09, 10:35 PM
How about a first level human cleric using divine metamagic to pump up the save DC and then hit them with any spell that'd make them suck if they fail the save. Command works OK but there's got to be something better out there somewhere.

dextercorvia
2010-08-09, 11:09 PM
I'd take the Human Focused Specialist(Evoker) with the following changes

Swap Familiar for Animal Companion -- Wolf (Great at 1st, sucks eventually)
Swap Scribe Scroll for Improved Inititive
Flaw: Fell Drain
Flaw: Easy Metamagic(Fell Drain)
Human:Metamagic School Focus(Evocation)
1st: Wild Cohort -- Wolf

4 level 1 Fell Drain Sonic Snaps
3 level 0 Fell Drain Sonic Snaps (Thanks to MSF)
2 Beatsticks to get in the way of anything that beats you in initiative

Cespenar
2010-08-10, 01:12 AM
Psychic Warrior 1, Expansion and Up The Walls. Make the character plus his gear weigh at least 500 pounds. Manifest Expansion (standard), run up a wall at least 10 feet and jump down onto as many as four opponents. You take no damage for having jumped down. As per falling object rules, those four opponents each take 20d6 damage, no attack roll, no saving throw.

Wow. Super Mario.

JaronK
2010-08-10, 01:55 AM
Human Wizard 1 with Signature Spell and Eschew Materials (I think you need a flaw for a prerequisite). Use Launch Bolt as your only weapon, doing rediculous damage. Sell your spell book. Buy a horde of Riding Dogs and Magebreed Riding Dogs, as well as a few Mules. Have your dogs slaughter everything.

JaronK

ericgrau
2010-08-10, 02:00 AM
You're doing it wrong.

Try Sonic Snap as the cantrip for auto-hit, no save, no AC.

Query: Is level 1 pun pun still level 1 with obscene stats and special abilities, or does he somehow raise his level too? B/c auto-killing pun pun with another simple cheesy trick would be amusing.

hamishspence
2010-08-10, 04:21 AM
Control undead is a 7th level spell. You can't put it in a wand. Period.
And if you could put it into a wand, a wand would cost over a 1000 gold for even 1 charge. (375*spell level * casterlevel * 2 for buying) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingWands). And that'll net you a grand 13 minutes.

You can put it in a scepter (Lost Empires of Faerun) which is basically a more powerful wand that can have up to two spells, of up to 7th level.

Unfortunately, given that the original post said "non-forgotten realms" this option may not be available.

Bharg
2010-08-10, 04:24 AM
Some overpowering psionic shenanigan, maybe?

Fortuna
2010-08-10, 04:32 AM
An epic wizard with a superfortress who gotone of his mindraped minions to drain him to level one so he qualified?

A gestalt of two of the more powerful characters posted here?

A level 1 Lightning Warrior?

Yeah, apart from the first one I'm just being facetious.

Frog Dragon
2010-08-10, 04:51 AM
Just one upping the water orc there.
Dustform Incarnate Construct Orc (In the process, the Water orc con bonus is nullified).
+8 to Str, -2 to Dex, -2 Wis, -2 Cha Note that the dustform creature template makes int and con nonabilities, which is then rolled for in incarnate construct. The goodie here is the +8 Str. Go barbarian, rage, PA people with a greatsword.
Assuming unmodified str 18, you get str of 30 when you rage. Damage would be 2d6+17. Attack bonus +10.

Eldan
2010-08-10, 05:47 AM
Level one anything, with a twelve page background explaining why I'm emperor of the continent?

Hey, the DM could allow it.

Bayar
2010-08-10, 06:13 AM
If you're set on doing melee;

Dragonborn Water Orc Barbarian wizard with Greatsword, grab Power Attack, go for 18 Str 16 Con 13 INT (assuming 32pb)

2d6+14 damage at +9 attack bonus while having Fist of Stone.
Also, 3d6+15 damageat +9 attack bonus while also having Enlarge Person active.

I can already hear the ka-boom.

Tweaked it for you.

Eloel
2010-08-10, 06:15 AM
Query: Is level 1 pun pun still level 1 with obscene stats and special abilities, or does he somehow raise his level too? B/c auto-killing pun pun with another simple cheesy trick would be amusing.
Likely, Pun-Pun has Energy Resistance: Yes to all energy types.

Hmm...

Human Sorcerer, 18 cha, Easy (or Practical) Metamagic, Fell Drain, Energy Sub: Acid, Energy Sub: Electricity (2x flaws)

You can cast 4x Fell Drain Sonic Snaps per day.
For stuff resistant/immune to sonic, or stuff that are in Silence, put them into great pain with finger snapping acidy or zapping goodness.

Tweaked it for you.

Except you're not proficient in greatsword, and have no BAB

Critical
2010-08-10, 06:17 AM
Level 1 Kobold Paladin. :smallamused:

Eldan
2010-08-10, 06:20 AM
It's not set in FR, so I assume that means no Sarrukh. Otherwise, the contest is meaningless.

Though it's probably still possible to make a wish loop with Pazuzu.

Tyger
2010-08-10, 08:34 AM
Control undead is a 7th level spell. You can't put it in a wand. Period.
And if you could put it into a wand, a wand would cost over a 1000 gold for even 1 charge. (375*spell level * casterlevel * 2 for buying) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingWands). And that'll net you a grand 13 minutes.

Unless he meant Command Undead maybe? That works just fine.

Person_Man
2010-08-10, 08:43 AM
If it's for 1 battle, then Sorcerer is the way to go.

If it's for "all day" then it's Incarnate. Astral Vembraces for DR 4/magic, Mantle of Flame for 2d6 retributive Fire damage every time someone hits you, and Lightning Gauntlets for 2d6 electricity damage every round as a touch attack. (Assuming you can take 2 flaws for an extra soulmeld and essentia. Otherwise you'll be limited to two of the above).

Fouredged Sword
2010-08-10, 08:46 AM
I did infact mean Command Undead, a much more reasonably priced. It is still out of your price range, but you can use fell drain sonic snap to kill other level 1/2 adventureres for cash.

A command undead wand costs only 900gp per charge and is CL 3.

okpokalypse
2010-08-10, 08:55 AM
Psychic Warrior 1, Expansion and Up The Walls. Make the character plus his gear weigh at least 500 pounds. Manifest Expansion (standard), run up a wall at least 10 feet and jump down onto as many as four opponents. You take no damage for having jumped down. As per falling object rules, those four opponents each take 20d6 damage, no attack roll, no saving throw.

This (At L1) is better done with an overweight Monk w/ Hidden Talent (Expansion), some Flaws and reduiculous Jump... Your target weight+gear pre-expansion is 500 Lbs, which you can do pretty easily. Get a good enough Jump ability and you only need to get 10' up to cause the 20d6 10'x10' cataclysm... You never need to rely on a structure to get yourself at the necessary height to drop. The check is, I believe only DC 10 for you given your speed and size.

Starbuck_II
2010-08-10, 10:39 AM
Just one upping the water orc there.
Dustform Incarnate Construct Orc (In the process, the Water orc con bonus is nullified).
+8 to Str, -2 to Dex, -2 Wis, -2 Cha Note that the dustform creature template makes int and con nonabilities, which is then rolled for in incarnate construct. The goodie here is the +8 Str. Go barbarian, rage, PA people with a greatsword.
Assuming unmodified str 18, you get str of 30 when you rage. Damage would be 2d6+17. Attack bonus +10.

My character Rockman has 50 Str, 54 when raging, I think he beats that.

Siosilvar
2010-08-10, 10:53 AM
Hmm... since you said level 1, not ECL 1...

Nah, I'm not going to do that to you. There are far too many templates out there anyway.

dextercorvia
2010-08-10, 09:48 PM
My character Rockman has 50 Str, 54 when raging, I think he beats that.

At ECL1? Do tell.

Boci
2010-08-10, 09:51 PM
At ECL1? Do tell.

He already did earlier in the thread. Took incarnate and Dustform 20 times each.

Coidzor
2010-08-10, 10:11 PM
*ahem* Infinite army of simulacrums. Wizard 1 + Precocious Apprentice feat. Add Knowledge the Planes to taste.


WANT MORE CHEESE? YOU GOT MORE CHEESE.

How would you like a PET EFREET at LEVEL ONE?
They're just giving away PET EFREETS at LEVEL ONE!
All you need to to is BRIBE YOUR WIZARD MASTER.
that way he'll say you're a PRECOCIOUS APPRENTICE
Because apprentices GET ALL THE CHICKS
I mean ALL THE CHICKS
I mean you'll have to BUILD A HENHOUSE for ALL THE CHICKS you'll be getting
AND then you can cast SUMMON MIRROR MEPHIT
SUMMON MIRROR MEPHIT lets you SUMMON A MIRROR MEPHIT
MIRROR MEPHITS are the bomb
mirror mephits are NO MERE METHHEADS
mirror mephits let you CAST SIMULACRUM BY PROXY
YOU CAN HAVE A SIMULACRUM
Do you want a snowman?
SIMULACRUM!
Need someone to change your tires?
SIMULACRUM!
Want someone to GRANT WISHES?
SIMULACRUM!

Or wait... is that FR? :smallconfused: Doesn't... appear to be.

dextercorvia
2010-08-10, 10:20 PM
He already did earlier in the thread. Took incarnate and Dustform 20 times each.

Ah. I missed that. Is that even legal?

Starbuck_II
2010-08-10, 10:26 PM
Ah. I missed that. Is that even legal?

Yes, but it will require some good Background.
Basically, you qualify for Incarnate after dustform. This doesn't change after you take dustform again (you qualified again).

They cancel each other out.

It makes your Dex suck (so you'll make few Reflex saves), but you will hit the enemy easily at low levels (all levels really but this challenge was for 1st lv).

You also get +2 Natural armor out of the deal.

But you lose all racial benefits (except for being your own race type for Prestige classes).

dextercorvia
2010-08-10, 10:50 PM
Yes, but it will require some good Background.
Basically, you qualify for Incarnate after dustform. This doesn't change after you take dustform again (you qualified again).

They cancel each other out.

It makes your Dex suck (so you'll make few Reflex saves), but you will hit the enemy easily at low levels (all levels really but this challenge was for 1st lv).

You also get +2 Natural armor out of the deal.

But you lose all racial benefits (except for being your own race type for Prestige classes).

I'll stipulate that you could probably keep applying the templates, although, I've never seen a rule that would allow you to take a template twice. However, the Strength Bonus from Dustform won't stack with itself -- sure it's untyped, but it is from the same source.

derfenrirwolv
2010-08-11, 12:55 AM
Great wyrm gold dragon. 1 level in sorcerer

gorfnab
2010-08-11, 02:31 AM
Warforged Crusader with the Adamantine Body feat carrying a Morningstar and a Heavy Steel Shield is fairly robust at level 1.

Eldan
2010-08-11, 04:17 AM
I'll stipulate that you could probably keep applying the templates, although, I've never seen a rule that would allow you to take a template twice. However, the Strength Bonus from Dustform won't stack with itself -- sure it's untyped, but it is from the same source.

See, technically, you lose the dustform template when taking incarnate. So you take it again, become a construct again, take incarnate again...

dextercorvia
2010-08-11, 08:29 AM
See, technically, you lose the dustform template when taking incarnate. So you take it again, become a construct again, take incarnate again...

I don't see that in reading either template. You lose special attacks and special qualities when taking Incarnate Construct, but neither template is removed.

Even if you lose it, don't you lose the strength bonus? And if you don't, then it is still a strength bonus from the dustform template.

I like cheese as much as the next forumgoer, but I believe this is actually tofu -- It looks like a carton of feta, but has no taste.

Emmerask
2010-08-11, 10:04 AM
Level 1 Commoner with epic wizard dad and epic cleric mom.
They of course use magic to know If I´m going to be attacked or harmed each day and kill or enslave everything that wants to harm me :smallwink:

AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-11, 10:16 AM
Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu.

I did this.

The DM got pissed off and said I couldn't know about that. :smallsigh:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-08-11, 10:18 AM
A Spellhoarding Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 1, gets 3rd level Wizard spellcasting and doesn't have any risk of losing his spellbook. It doesn't require any flaws, traits, or variant rules, and you get 1d8+2+Con HP per level. It has proficiency in any light or one-handed martial weapon (armor spikes) and proficiency and weapon focus in any melee martial weapon. You get Scribe Scroll and Eschew Materials for free. You write your spells on your scales instead of in a book, but just as though it were in a book. You can lose a scribed spell to cast it as though from a scroll, so you can write down spells with costly material and xp components and then cast them as though that cost had already been paid. Since there's no limit on what level of spells you can learn and scribe, apart from a spellcraft check to understand it, you could potentially scribe 9th level spells and then cast them as though from a scroll, at 1st level.

Plus it can jump into Swiftblade at 5th level with flaws, so it works as a long-term character not just something that's strong at 1st level.

flabort
2010-08-11, 12:02 PM
:smalleek:
Biffoniacus, the only thing that could best that, is if you went pun-pun. and the only thing that could best pun-pun is both pun-pun and SVDDKLSBS (your post) in one kobold. Really. I think I'd ban kobolds as the DM, whether the build itself is broken already or not, just because of thier potential.

Really, casting 9th level spells, without needing to pay thier material or xp costs, at first level?! And then add nigh infinite int from pun-punning, and you're bonuses are extreme!

The Glyphstone
2010-08-11, 12:05 PM
Why not just...ban Pun-Pun? Kobold isn't necessary to become Pun-Pun, it's just traditional. If you're not a kobold, it adds one extra total Wish to the chain, but it still ends up in the same place.

SurlySeraph
2010-08-11, 12:36 PM
Really, casting 9th level spells, without needing to pay thier material or xp costs, at first level?!

If you can find the spell and scribe it and make the Spellcraft check. Requires a hearty dose of DM fiat and skill-boosting, but possible. Given the listed spell-scribing costs, it's not enormously better than just buying a scroll. Both are well above 1st-level WBL anyway.


And then add nigh infinite int from pun-punning, and you're bonuses are extreme!

"This would be really powerful if you were Pun-Pun in addition to doing it" does not make something really powerful.

Eldariel
2010-08-11, 01:45 PM
Why not just...ban Pun-Pun? Kobold isn't necessary to become Pun-Pun, it's just traditional. If you're not a kobold, it adds one extra total Wish to the chain, but it still ends up in the same place.

You don't just "ban Pun-Pun", you ban Wish-access to Candle of Invocation (or y'know, just rewrite Candle of Invocation in general; or even better, fix Gate), rewrite Manipulate Form and so on. "Banning Pun-Pun" (whatever that means; not being allowed to ascend to divinity is a small hurdle for Pun-Pun and you can still break the game with the tools in a thousand non-Pun-Pun ways) is just removing one of the billions of symptoms of the same problems; the problems are:
1) Manipulate Form on Sarrukh
2) Gate's unfortunate control clause
3) Candle of Invocation's cost/abilities
4) Wish's lack of cap on Magic Item costs
5) Ice Assassin in general

Fix those two problems and you fix a crapton of everything else too.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-11, 02:35 PM
You don't just "ban Pun-Pun", you ban Wish-access to Candle of Invocation (or y'know, just rewrite Candle of Invocation in general; or even better, fix Gate), rewrite Manipulate Form and so on. "Banning Pun-Pun" (whatever that means; not being allowed to ascend to divinity is a small hurdle for Pun-Pun and you can still break the game with the tools in a thousand non-Pun-Pun ways) is just removing one of the billions of symptoms of the same problems; the problems are:
1) Manipulate Form on Sarrukh
2) Gate's unfortunate control clause
3) Candle of Invocation's cost/abilities
4) Wish's lack of cap on Magic Item costs
5) Ice Assassin in general

Fix those two problems and you fix a crapton of everything else too.

Fair enough, but since [ 6) don't let players be Kobolds ] is missing from your list, I don't think we're disagreeing. I was just pointing out that being a kobold is in no way integral to Pun-Punism, it's just a legacy/grandfather clause from the original PunPun.

true_shinken
2010-08-11, 03:29 PM
I did this.

The DM got pissed off and said I couldn't know about that. :smallsigh:
FOOL!
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=awesomesquad.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fawesomesquad.files.wordpress.com% 2F2008%2F09%2Fmr-t-i-pity-the-fool.gif&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fawesomesquad.wordpress.com%2F200 8%2F09%2F14%2Fpity-the-fool%2F
That is why you should maximize your Knowledge checks!

Starbuck_II
2010-08-11, 04:52 PM
I'll stipulate that you could probably keep applying the templates, although, I've never seen a rule that would allow you to take a template twice. However, the Strength Bonus from Dustform won't stack with itself -- sure it's untyped, but it is from the same source.

WotC approves stacking same template.
They once made on website a triple 1/2 Dragon.

So if it is their intent that you can stack same template (if meet requirements each time): then do it if you wish.

EnnPeeCee
2010-08-11, 06:08 PM
What about a wizard/sorcerer with Power Word: Pain and a way to run away easily?

AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-11, 07:03 PM
FOOL!
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=awesomesquad.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fawesomesquad.files.wordpress.com% 2F2008%2F09%2Fmr-t-i-pity-the-fool.gif&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fawesomesquad.wordpress.com%2F200 8%2F09%2F14%2Fpity-the-fool%2F
That is why you should maximize your Knowledge checks!

Sadly, a level one half-orc barbarian lacks intelligence.