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View Full Version : Questions:Karrnathi undead, how to kill a druid, and Memory loss



Kol Korran
2010-08-10, 09:00 AM
hi. i'm planning a campaign, and I've come across a few problems. i've decided to wrap them up in one thread, so not to open too many. if this is problematic, i will change that.

1) what rules do youuse for raising Karrnathi skeletons and zombies? do you use the regular "animate dead" spell or do youadd requirements? can it be used for non karrnathi? for non humanoids? (creating intelligent undead). can Karrnathi undead with more HD than stated in the book be created? (a 10 HD skeleton warlord?).
i'm asking this for both one of my BBEGs. (there are a few, complicated), and for one of my players that will probably play a cleric necromancer of Karrnath, and might go into the Bone Knight PRC.

2) in the first adventure, the party might stumble on the dead body of a druid, and probably the live animal companion. only i want the companion to be either a cockatrice, or a displacer beast, which demands the druid to be of 7th level. how did the druid die though? he investigated a sort of abberation bugs that can shoot stun darts and make a limited for of psiblast, and also a changling of up to 4th level might have been involved (class undecided, i'm thinking rogue, artificer, a wizard, or a combination). what could have reasonably killed a 7th level druid, without falling to the party's hands. I'm thinking a powerfull poison. any ideas?

3) one of my players is playing a half giant psychic warrior. he wishes to starts without memory, and to let me fill in the blanks, which i'll be glad to. i've allready established his identity as coming form a remote colony in xen'deric to deliver a message to some chamber dragon the party might meet later. question is- what wiped out his memory? a special poison again? why wasn't he just killed? (i might make it that he was actually of a higher level, maybe even the leader or leiutenent of the expedition, before suffering amnesia) any ideas?

thanks in advance for any answers!
Kol Korran

Maerok
2010-08-10, 09:32 AM
Combining 2 and 3, the half giant psychic warrior killed the druid? *Dun dun dunnn* And somehow in the fight he lost his memory due to a natural poison that the druid was going to use to sedate the bugs so he could find out more about them up close, but on sentients it causes a mind-wipe.

Lysander
2010-08-10, 09:37 AM
For #3, pixie arrows can cause amnesia:


Special Arrows (Ex)
Pixies sometimes employ arrows that deal no damage but can erase memory or put a creature to sleep.

Memory Loss
An opponent struck by this arrow must succeed on a DC 15 Will save or lose all memory. The save DC is Charisma-based and includes a +2 racial bonus. The subject retains skills, languages, and class abilities but forgets everything else until he or she receives a heal spell or memory restoration with limited wish, wish, or miracle.

Kol Korran
2010-08-12, 03:45 AM
No ideas about Karrnathi undead? anyone? really?
I like the idea of the half giant to have killed the druid excpet... it makes no sense plot wise. i'll have to think of making some Sense. maybe he could have then been hit by a pixie arrow of a pixie friend of the druid? Interesting...

any other ideas people, for the druid, the memory loss, and especially the Karrnathi?

MarvinMartian
2010-08-12, 04:49 AM
I'll give ago at answering your undead Karrnathi questions...

Depending on the level of the challenge you want to offer your PC's I would probably advise using "regular" undead in most encounters - seeing as these are fairly "easy" to make. So use the regular rules for creating undead.

For those special undead - I would advise making use of the following templates: Tainted Minion (Heroes of Horror), Evolved Undead (Libris Mortis), Gravetouched (Libris Mortis), Necropolitan (Libris Mortis), Revived (Libris Mortis). These are all pretty cool - some I have used others not - but they will give some extra flavor and variety to your undead. Karnathi being a place where they are secretly experimenting with creating more and more powerful undead you could easily incorporate any or all of these into your Eberron game.

As for some added flavor try the Hooded Pupils (Libris Mortis) template for those pesky "living" minions of powerful undead NPC's. Can make for some interesting twists for the preconceptions your PC's might have if they face off against lots of undead during your campaign.

Still for flavor and lots of interesting ideas I would advise both the Libris Mortis (great resource for all things undead) and the Heroes of Horror for some nice ideas on making and using Horror in your campaigns.

Kol Korran
2010-08-12, 04:55 AM
I should have perhaps made myself clearer before: by "Karrnathi undead" i'm talking about Karrnathi skeletons and zombies- the regular undead, just with intlliegenc, cunning, feats and skills.

what rules are there to create them? and i don't mean what DM monsters are out there, but what rules would PCs and NPCs use to create them?

can non Karrnathi be made into these skeletons and zombies? (i always imagined there to be some sort of ritual or accpetence by Karrnathi soldiers going into the militery that they might be animated back)

can the process be used for nonhumanoids? (can i make a karrnathi skeleton chimera?)

can Karrnathi skeletons and zombies be created with more (or less) than 3 HD?

Coidzor
2010-08-12, 05:24 AM
I would say non-Karnathi can be made into them, considering there's nothing special about Karnathi to distinguish them from the other humans of their world.

As for the rest, I don't think it's been addressed in the rules, so you'd have to find or come up with a homebrew fix.

What I'd do would be count is as a create undead type of undead, probably with the provision that the subject's soul has to be willing to come back and so is actually residing in the undead. Is basically a cross between necropolitan, awaken undead, and skeleton/zombie anyway, so, not too complicated, probably, to figure out how it would apply to other things.

FelixG
2010-08-12, 05:29 AM
How to kill a druid: a tree fell over on them :smallbiggrin:

Irony +1

MarvinMartian
2010-08-12, 06:08 AM
Aaha - regular Karrnathi undead (skellies and zombies) - are created using "special" Karrnathi rituals. Basically they are just enhanced skellies and zombies. I guess the "rules" for making them would be to create some sort of Karrnathi template that you can apply to the base creature. Similar as to how the Zombie template is used in MM.

Too be honest I haven't bumped into such a specific template, but you could just eyeball the differences/similarities between the Karrnathi Zombies and Skeletons in EbCS and MM1 to get a feel for it and house rule your own "Karrnathi" undead template.

The intelligence and their being more powerful than non-Karrnathi undead seems (on my quick review of the relevant books) to be based on the rituals used in creating them - specific Karrnathi rituals (involving alchemical treatment of their bones according to EbCS) as opposed to regular animate/create undead run-of-the-mill spells.

Can non-Karrnathians be made into Karrnathi undead? My guess is yes - it seems a part of the ritual not the origin (or even the acceptance) of the creature being made undead. Although this is open to interpretation...

Can the process be used on non-humanoids? Of course - I wouldn't see why not, you have regular zombie/skeleton monsters so... Anyways your the DM - so why not...

More than 3HD - just use the regular rules for upgrading monsters (or look in Libris Mortis for some ideas on undead heroes and feats and such)

Less than 3HD... sure, but I would probably choose just to use regular skels and zombies from MMI for this.

Zen Master
2010-08-12, 06:17 AM
Karnathi Undead are created using an eldritch machine. So basically, without the machine, you get no Karnathi Undead - however much you might want to.

This machine is also how Karnath control the enormous numbers of undead they have.

Stompy
2010-08-12, 06:44 AM
2) Your abberations, wanting to get rid of the druid, hire sir (ma'am?) 4th level changling for an ambush. One day, the druid is following the obvious signs of these aberrations when she stumbles upon the trap, immobilizing her. You can use a pit trap, a bear trap, or whatever else you think is appropiate here. [Assume the changling has ranks in craft(trapmaking), hence he's integral for the plan]

Since druids aren't spectacular at range usually (and since she didn't prepare freedom of movement in case anyone asks), she wildshapes, and tries to get free, but to little avail. The time spent to get herself free is the same time where the aberrations kill (or capture) the animal companion, after doing so, the druid is wailed on by stun-blasts, psi-blasts, and a tanglefoot bag for insult until she is dead. The changling collects his/her blood money in the form of the druid's material possessions, and her body is left for the PCs to find.

3) His memory was wiped out by a conspirator. Your PC lost his memory when Styx water was slipped into his waterskin by said conspirator. What the conspirator did not realize, however, was that the Styx water needs to be fresh to completely and permanently erase someone's memories. Said conspirator, (leaving this part vague so that you can fill it in later) was expecting the complete memory loss, so they may have revealed their identity to your PC, where the PC may regain knowledge of that person in their memories whenever it is convenient for the DM to do so.

PS: Most of your plans involve poison. You sound like a fun DM. :smallbiggrin:

Bibliomancer
2010-08-12, 06:46 AM
1) It is implied in one of the Eberron sourcebooks (possibly Player's Guide to Eberron or the Forge of War) that Karrnathi undead can only be created from a human with at least 3 HD, which explains a) why the army doesn't consist entirely of them and b) why they don't just give their entire army a free +2.5 CR boost by killing them and reanimating them.

The actual process itself could well involve an Eldritch machine, preferably one linked to Mabar.

In the Forge of War, there are stats for a Karrnathi commander, a 5HD CR5 undead with attributes like other Karrnathi undead but higher mental abilities and an aura similar to the marshal. The aura bonus starts at +2 and increases by +1 for every 5 extra HD, to a maximum of +5 at HD20. With the right equipment, a 20HD undead of this type could easily by an undead BBEG (CR approximately 10, according to the MM's creature advancement guidelines).

Greenish
2010-08-12, 03:29 PM
Karnathi Undead are created using an eldritch machine. So basically, without the machine, you get no Karnathi Undead - however much you might want to.

This machine is also how Karnath control the enormous numbers of undead they have.
The Bone Knights wish to disagree.

Keld Denar
2010-08-12, 03:49 PM
There is a spell in Lost Empires of Faerun called Animate Dread Warrior. It allows the undead to keep most of the features it had in life. You could port that across to Eberron in for form of a spell called Animate Karnathi Undead or similar. Make it a secret spell, with only a few priviliged spellcasters able to learn it.

As far as the PsyWar, he could have temporarily been a host for a Quori spirit. When the spirit abandoned him (prior to becoming a PC), it tore something upstairs that caused a mental disconnect between its host period and the present. His brain is slowly recovering, piecing itself together as his Psionic talent increases, rebuilding synaptic pathways that conduct psychic energies, etc. Alternatively, some kind of Delkyr spirit from the far realm, whos inherant madness scared his psyche so bad it refuses to recognize itself (in a SAN-loss kinda way). Again, as the PsyWar grows in power, he gains the mental fortitude to withstand this madness and steal back bits and pieces of his memory from himself in a piecemeal fashion.

As far as what killed the drood? Something with a Ref save. Maybe some kind of net trap that immobilized it long enough for someone to gut it. Druids have very few weaknesses, but Ref save and touch AC are 2 of them.