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Zerkai
2010-08-10, 09:44 PM
I've been looking up warforged a lot recently, but the whole armor thing just confounds me. Been disusing Warforged with a friend of mine who was relatively new to DnD.

Friend: Started looking up Warforged components. A lot of possibilities here, parts that add bonuses to picking locks, spot/listen, darkvision...
Me: Yeah, but what about armor?
Me: ._.
Friend: They're made of metal.
Me: Yeah, but that Composite plating only gives a +2 bonus to armor, equal to light leather armor, compared to a suit of full plate, which gives 8 armor bonus.
Friend: Can they wear armor?
Me: No
Friend: No one has ever made custom built armor that a warforged could wear?
Friend: Or, ya'know, attached armor plating to a warforged?
Friend: This is not rocket science.

... He has a point. Maybe I just haven't found anything about it yet, is there any way to have an armor bonus equivalent to Full Plate?

tyckspoon
2010-08-10, 09:47 PM
The (Material) Body feats can change the Warforged's composite plating; Mithral Body is about equivalent to a mithral breastplate, IIRC, and Adamantine Body gives the same stats as Adamantine Full Plate. Other than that I'm not aware of anything, but if desired it wouldn't be much of a stretch to make said feats available as purchasable component upgrades instead.

AslanCross
2010-08-10, 09:47 PM
Take the Adamantine Body feat. Bonus equivalent to full plate, and you can actually take it at level 1. (Full plate, by WBL, is normally not available at Lv 1). It gives the same ACPs as masterwork full plate and adds to your fortification.

The Mithral Body feat gives you a +5 armor bonus and a smaller armor check penalty.

All warforged armor can be enchanted as if they were masterwork armor.

Also noteworthy: the warforged default Composite Plating counts as UNARMORED, and thus stacks with the Monk AC bonus, for what it's worth.

EDIT: I was counting on being Shadow Hand Swordsage'd on this one.

Fouredged Sword
2010-08-10, 09:48 PM
Its a feat that can be taken at level one. You can have a variety of types of armor. The full plate option is adamintine plateing. It grants full plate like armor the same as adimantine full plate.

At level one...

Yeah... Warforged are powerful as a race.

Snake-Aes
2010-08-10, 09:51 PM
I've been looking up warforged a lot recently, but the whole armor thing just confounds me. Been disusing Warforged with a friend of mine who was relatively new to DnD.

Friend: Started looking up Warforged components. A lot of possibilities here, parts that add bonuses to picking locks, spot/listen, darkvision...
Me: Yeah, but what about armor?
Me: ._.
Friend: They're made of metal.
Me: Yeah, but that Composite plating only gives a +2 bonus to armor, equal to light leather armor, compared to a suit of full plate, which gives 8 armor bonus.
Friend: Can they wear armor?
Me: No
Friend: No one has ever made custom built armor that a warforged could wear?
Friend: Or, ya'know, attached armor plating to a warforged?
Friend: This is not rocket science.

... He has a point. Maybe I just haven't found anything about it yet, is there any way to have an armor bonus equivalent to Full Plate?

That's about it. Their plating actually occupy the armor slot, so either they replace the plating or remove it entirely (both require a feat). It can be enhanced as a suit of armor would, tho.

Zerkai
2010-08-10, 09:59 PM
Ah, thanks for the help guys :D

AslanCross
2010-08-10, 10:06 PM
Just for reference, the feats are available in the Eberron Campaign Setting and in Monster Manual III (which features the Eberron races minus Kalashtar).

Escheton
2010-08-10, 11:08 PM
There is also the ironwood(?) plating for warforged druids.
Think there is a plating feat that lets you be unplated so no spell failure. I do recall you are actually able to wear robes and armor with that one.
Would have to look it up to be sure, I might later.

dgnslyr
2010-08-10, 11:09 PM
Why, for reasons other than "balance," does changing the armor plating on a Warforged require a feat rather than a modest sum of gold? A feat is more of a new trick your character has learned, while changing the armored plating is more along the lines of an equipment change. I don't see why you couldn't find someone experienced with how Warforged are put together and ask him to rebuild you, for a price, unless the external plating is attached firmly to the parts beneath to the point where removal is nigh impossible after creation.

AslanCross
2010-08-10, 11:10 PM
There is also the ironwood(?) plating for warforged druids.
Think there is a plating feat that lets you be unplated so no spell failure. I do recall you are actually able to wear robes and armor with that one.
Would have to look it up to be sure, I might later.

That's called Unarmored Body. Indeed, you can wear armor in that form, but it's kind of counter productive to take a feat to be just like everyone else.

Halae
2010-08-10, 11:24 PM
Why, for reasons other than "balance," does changing the armor plating on a Warforged require a feat rather than a modest sum of gold? A feat is more of a new trick your character has learned, while changing the armored plating is more along the lines of an equipment change. I don't see why you couldn't find someone experienced with how Warforged are put together and ask him to rebuild you, for a price, unless the external plating is attached firmly to the parts beneath to the point where removal is nigh impossible after creation.

essentially, that's the same as asking for a new skin. once you're on the opperating table, you have a good chance of habving all your insides fall out (which warforged, who have wooden insides rather than metal have to consider as well, since it'll fall out too. what, you didn't think they get that ability to heal using cure spells from their metal, did you?). Every species would be wary of something like that, construct or otherwise. sure, you could find someone who is incredibly skilled with warforged and can make a new body for one, but who would find the time, intelligence, and do the research for something with so little a market?

Technically though, feat retraining will do that for you

Escheton
2010-08-10, 11:31 PM
That's called Unarmored Body. Indeed, you can wear armor in that form, but it's kind of counter productive to take a feat to be just like everyone else.

But think of the flavor! The people on the Flavor Op board love this sorta thing...uhm...wait, ow yeah, nvm.

It fits well with the prestigeclass that slowly turns you into a real boy.

But seriously:
It would allow the warforged rogue/fighter to fix traps with no armor check penalty and simply insta-don his called fullplate when combat breaks out.

Also nice for magerobes.

Prime32
2010-08-11, 05:29 AM
It fits well with the prestigeclass that slowly turns you into a real boy.Reforged get to trade out their Body feats for free anyway. I think they get Unarmored Body at their last level, or at least something like it.


If you want to put additional plating on a warforged, enchant his existing armor and say you're adding extra layers.

AslanCross
2010-08-11, 06:46 AM
But think of the flavor! The people on the Flavor Op board love this sorta thing...uhm...wait, ow yeah, nvm.

It fits well with the prestigeclass that slowly turns you into a real boy.

But seriously:
It would allow the warforged rogue/fighter to fix traps with no armor check penalty and simply insta-don his called fullplate when combat breaks out.

Also nice for magerobes.

Reforged gets Unarmored body automatically, as mentioned above. But yes, you do have a point. Actually, armor with the "called" property (forget what it's called exactly) can instantly appear on the warforged's body. One can take advantage of that, I guess.

Project_Mayhem
2010-08-11, 06:57 AM
but who would find the time, intelligence, and do the research for something with so little a market?

House Cannith?

panaikhan
2010-08-11, 07:56 AM
As stated above, most modifications to a Warforged's plating require 1st-level-only feats.

So, my advice is as follows:
Either pick the plating you want at character creation, or, have someone make a suit of armour for the warforged that is slotless.
Or, make a cloak that gives an armour bonus (warforged can still wear cloaks).

Edelweiss
2010-09-09, 04:16 PM
I've read it around here somewhere though, a level 1 feat that is worth around 16,000g is not too shabby. Because for lower levels the adamantite body feat is pretty powerful. In the long run however, losing a feat can be upsetting. So my advice is to plan around the expected length of the campaign I suppose.

Marnath
2010-09-09, 05:24 PM
It gives the same ACPs as masterwork full plate and adds to your fortification.

The Mithral Body feat gives you a +5 armor bonus and a smaller armor check penalty.


No. It's not a real ACP, which are doubled for swim. It's actually just a straight up penalty.


Why, for reasons other than "balance," does changing the armor plating on a Warforged require a feat rather than a modest sum of gold? A feat is more of a new trick your character has learned, while changing the armored plating is more along the lines of an equipment change. I don't see why you couldn't find someone experienced with how Warforged are put together and ask him to rebuild you, for a price, unless the external plating is attached firmly to the parts beneath to the point where removal is nigh impossible after creation.

Go to a plastic surgeon, and ask them to cut your skin off and sew a different ethnicity of skin on. We'll see how long you live through that, eh?

Hague
2010-09-09, 05:42 PM
You CAN make a warforged armor upgrade:



A warforged component usually occupies the same
space on the body that a magic item of the same kind normally
would. Components that do not occupy any space on
the body cost twice what they would cost as ordinary magic
items.

This means that you can make warforged armor with the right spells. However, don't count on it being able to explicitly have armor qualities but that should be left to the DM to decide. Warforged mage armor generator? Sure. Sunbeam gem or crystal lenses, and so on.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-09-09, 06:44 PM
I don't see why you can't just make Warforged Barding. IIRC the Armor/Robe slot restriction only applies for magic item effects.

Hague
2010-09-09, 06:47 PM
Barding takes up the armor slot. You can only wear one suit of armor at any given time, mundane or magical.

0Megabyte
2010-09-09, 07:30 PM
While mechanically, the loss of a feat kind of sucks, at least if you're playing a long term game, it's still the best way to represent how different Warforged are.

They were created in their current form as is from the production line. That feat and its "only available at first level" thing represents the fact that they were made that way to begin with. They aren't shaped like humans. They're war machines, built specifically for battle. It really does give them some great flavor.

Marnath
2010-09-09, 07:32 PM
Another point in favor of the Body feats is your prison warden can't steal your skin the way he could armor. Kind of an iffy bonus though, as it might just make them kill you instead.

Saurus33
2010-09-09, 07:47 PM
Go to a plastic surgeon, and ask them to cut your skin off and sew a different ethnicity of skin on. We'll see how long you live through that, eh?

Problem being, in this game you can swim around in molten rock for a while and be fine after you cleric buddy says "Healburnsadioso!". Also grafts, which do exactly this, but for organic people. If meatbag here can replace his eyes, tendons, muscles and spine for cash, why not the guy who is actually machinelike?

Marnath
2010-09-09, 07:56 PM
Problem being, in this game you can swim around in molten rock for a while and be fine after you cleric buddy says "Healburnsadioso!". Also grafts, which do exactly this, but for organic people. If meatbag here can replace his eyes, tendons, muscles and spine for cash, why not the guy who is actually machinelike?

I suppose they're more complex or something. I mean, it takes a creation forge to make them, and those are artifacts.

Hague
2010-09-09, 07:59 PM
They can, it's called Craft Magic Arms and Armor. If the Warforged would like to change their armor later, just add the cost of the modified armor type into the magical item crafting. As long as you pay the cost, you should be able to do it. Keep in mind though, that the warforged will have to be present during all the crafting time.

You couldn't for instance, change their standard armor into adamantine armor unless you also made it into adamantine +1 armor. However, doing this wouldn't qualify you for any feats that require any of the body-type feats.

Marnath
2010-09-09, 08:01 PM
They can, it's called Craft Magic Arms and Armor. If the Warforged would like to change their armor later, just add the cost of the modified armor type into the magical item crafting. As long as you pay the cost, you should be able to do it. Keep in mind though, that the warforged will have to be present during all the crafting time.

You couldn't for instance, change their standard armor into adamantine armor unless you also made it into adamantine +1 armor. However, doing this wouldn't qualify you for any feats that require any of the body-type feats.

It doesn't work that way. You have to have built an item of the special material to begin with.

BladeofOblivion
2010-09-09, 08:01 PM
I suppose they're more complex or something. I mean, it takes a creation forge to make them, and those are artifacts.

Well, did you expect them to imbue a piece of steel and other random parts with intelligence using a regular hammer and anvil? That's a little tough.

Hague
2010-09-09, 08:07 PM
Where does it say that? You telling me there aren't spells that can transmute one material into another? Why not? As long as I preserve the actual cost in gp then there is no difference between making a breastplate out of steel by hand and fabricating it.

You can't declare an absolute like that in a game full of wonder.

Marnath
2010-09-09, 08:08 PM
Where does it say that? You telling me there aren't spells that can transmute one material into another? Why not? As long as I preserve the actual cost in gp then there is no difference between making a breastplate out of steel by hand and fabricating it.

You can't declare an absolute like that in a game full of wonder.

If there are rules for transmuting steel to adamantite, I certainly have never heard of them.

The Rabbler
2010-09-09, 08:13 PM
Well, did you expect them to imbue a piece of steel and other random parts with intelligence using a regular hammer and anvil? That's a little tough.

let's be fair; the intelligence was an accident.

Hague
2010-09-09, 08:15 PM
Are you telling me that you're unwilling to accept that even though you can make the warforged's armor burst into flames, reflect spells, and prevent critical hits but you are unwilling to allow it to increase in size, bulkiness and change material through the use of magic? I apologize sir if this offends you but that seems a little silly.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-09-09, 08:18 PM
I agree with the guy that said that there's really no reason you can't just make barding for a warforged. It makes the composite plating redundant, but the rules say you can only gain the benefits of one item in that slot, they don't actually say that you can't wear two items in the same slot. The penalties, however, do stack. So if you put a half-plate barding on your warforged he gets a -7 acp and a -2 penalty from his composite plating for a total -9 to the usual skills and a -16 to swim, and he has to pay double for the privilege, since it's barding and not just a half-plate.

Chrono22
2010-09-09, 08:28 PM
I see no problem wit h letting a player upgrade his composite plating- but it should cost 50% more than standard armor because of unusual construction. Furthermore, unless the PC is fishing out the cash for special materials, his composite plating won't have the qualities of adamantine or mithral (as the mithral/adamantine body feats do).

Kelb_Panthera
2010-09-09, 08:34 PM
One material can be changed into another instantaneously by the wish spell. Steel to adamantine, steel to mithral, mithral to adamantine, whatever you like. Precedent lies in ELH's rules for the creation of adamantine and mithral golemns. Doesn't necessarily change the volume of the material altered though.

Marnath
2010-09-09, 08:37 PM
I see no problem wit h letting a player upgrade his composite plating- but it should cost 50% more than standard armor because of unusual construction. Furthermore, unless the PC is fishing out the cash for special materials, his composite plating won't have the qualities of adamantine or mithral (as the mithral/adamantine body feats do).

Umm, no. Normal composite can be enchanted just fine by RAW. The discussion is whether you can transmute steel to adamantite. Which I guess you could use wish for, sure. But it shouldn't give you the benefit of Adamantite Body, since allowing simple spells to give you feats would break things.

Chrono22
2010-09-09, 08:55 PM
Umm, no. Normal composite can be enchanted just fine by RAW. The discussion is whether you can transmute steel to adamantite. Which I guess you could use wish for, sure. But it shouldn't give you the benefit of Adamantite Body, since allowing simple spells to give you feats would break things.
1. I wasn't referring to enchanting it. I was referring to replacing the armor components so that it imparts the benefits of heavier or lighter armors.
2. That is NOT the top of discussion, this is:

Friend: Started looking up Warforged components. A lot of possibilities here, parts that add bonuses to picking locks, spot/listen, darkvision...
Me: Yeah, but what about armor?
Me: ._.
Friend: They're made of metal.
Me: Yeah, but that Composite plating only gives a +2 bonus to armor, equal to light leather armor, compared to a suit of full plate, which gives 8 armor bonus.
Friend: Can they wear armor?
Me: No
Friend: No one has ever made custom built armor that a warforged could wear?
Friend: Or, ya'know, attached armor plating to a warforged?
Friend: This is not rocket science.

... He has a point. Maybe I just haven't found anything about it yet, is there any way to have an armor bonus equivalent to Full Plate?
.. which is exactly the topic I addressed. Don't let that stop you from carrying on, though, the current discussion that's derailing the topic is still very interesting.:smallsmile:

As an aside, it should be noted that enchanting exotic armor costs the same amount as enchanting ordinary armor- it's the actual construction of the armor that costs more.

balistafreak
2010-09-09, 09:39 PM
But it shouldn't give you the benefit of Adamantite Body, since allowing simple spells to give you feats would break things.

I feel like (Greater?) Heroism is a "simple spell" with a significantly long duration that allows one essentially have a Fighter bonus feat.

There is this psionic power that is actually called "Feat Leech" or something. Although I think it only does psionic feats in particular.

To say nothing of spells that completely obsolete (admittedly bad) feats in practical usage barring the classic counterexample of "you are naked".

... this is not helping the case. :smalltongue:

Marnath
2010-09-10, 05:50 PM
I've been looking up warforged a lot recently, but the whole armor thing just confounds me. Been disusing Warforged with a friend of mine who was relatively new to DnD.

Friend: Started looking up Warforged components. A lot of possibilities here, parts that add bonuses to picking locks, spot/listen, darkvision...
Me: Yeah, but what about armor?
Me: ._.
Friend: They're made of metal.
Me: Yeah, but that Composite plating only gives a +2 bonus to armor, equal to light leather armor, compared to a suit of full plate, which gives 8 armor bonus.
Friend: Can they wear armor?
Me: No
Friend: No one has ever made custom built armor that a warforged could wear?
Friend: Or, ya'know, attached armor plating to a warforged?
Friend: This is not rocket science.

... He has a point. Maybe I just haven't found anything about it yet, is there any way to have an armor bonus equivalent to Full Plate?

If this is the question, then the answer is even simpler. Yes, they have made custom armor plating for Warforged. It's called Adamantite Plating and is available as a feat. :smallwink:

Chrono22
2010-09-10, 06:20 PM
Houseruling that warforged can have their composite plating upgraded for the cost of an exotic armor is also a perfectly reasonable option.
So, if you wanted your composite plating to have an armor bonus of +8, a check penalty of -5, and a spell failure chance of 35%, it would cost you 2475 gp, 50% more than the cost of a normal suit of masterwork full plate armor.
Obviously it would not confer all the benefits of adamantine armor or the adamantine body feat. Unless, of course, the PC is willing to pay alot extra.