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View Full Version : [3.5] Proceeding into the Tomb of Horrors



strider24seven
2010-08-11, 09:58 AM
Alright, playgrounders... the DM has decided to throw us at the Tomb of Horrors. I don't know, however, if he is trying to TPK us (I've never played the Tomb before, but I've heard tales). Here's the party status:
~Faerun Campaign, Gestalt, 36 pt buy, 4 players, all level 9, 2 Traits, 2 Flaws
~Any material is allowed, provided it is run by the DM beforehand
~We are standing just outside of the Tomb, at the very beginning of the module
~We have 10,000 gp to spend, and an Artificer to craft with
~At the end of the previous session, we had to each draw 3 cards from The Deck of Many Things. We each got a Moon (!), so we have 11 Wishes to spend.
~The Artificer drew a Sun card, and the DM ruled that the 50k XP was to be added as a bonus to his craft reserve, ignoring his normal limit.
The Party Fluff:
We are a group of mercenaries, whom I (the Factotum) cobbled together from the School of Broad Horizons and the wilds of Rashemen. We have been utterly ruthless in our missions/jobs, with no good characters until now. We've survived a short urban campaign and 2 treks through the Underdark. We raided a Spirit Bear's barrow (DM stole the idea from NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer) and started a war between Amn and Tethyr. We have functioned well as a group or in "Let's split up, gang!" moments. We are also awesome.
The players are all using former characters of mine after an early near-tpk:

The Artificer (yes the DM allowed Eberron material in a Faerun campaign:
Race: Human
Alignment: Neutral
Naked Stats: 10/12/14/22/10/14
Class: Artificer 9//Warlock 4/Psion (Shaper) 1/Cannith Wand Adept 3/Chameleon 2
Deck Draws: Sun (Portable Hole+50k Craft Reserve), Moon (3 wishes), Star (+2 INT)
Tactics: WAND ABUSE!!! Other than that, he's the party crafter, so we get oodles of stuff. He is a secondary skillmonkey. He can heal and battlefield control with wands and scrolls. He can also create lots of stuff between the Mark of Making and Creation, Minor Psionic, like Black Lotus Extract.
Future build: Unknown. Full Artificer on one side, but the other is up in the air.

The Dwarf

Race: Duergar
Alignment: Chaotic Good (switched from CE)
Naked Stats: 16/10/24/12/12/10
Class: Duergar LA 1/Ex-Monk 2/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Fist of the Forest 1/Deepwarden 2/Bear Warrior 1/Warshaper 1//Ranger 1/Dwarf Paragon 3/Dragonfire Adept 2/Crusader 2/Fighter 1
Deck Draws: Balance (from CE to CG), Star (+2 CON), Moon (3 wishes)
Tactics: He's a bear that tanks and hits things. He can battlefield control with Thicket of Blades and Entangling Exhalation. He can also charge with Shock Trooper+Leap Attack. He also has the longest full-attack sequence of the party, with Unarmed Strike+Natural Attacks.
Future Build: Frostrager, then 4 more levels in Bear Warrior. Otherwise unknown.

The Pouncer

Race: Strongheart Halfling
Alignment: Neutral
Naked Stats: 14/18/14/12/14/12
Class: Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Crinti Shadow Marauder 5//Swordsage 9
Deck Draws: Moon (4), Skull (we ended up fighting 4 Dread Wraiths, because we helped him out), Key (A really good Spiked Chain)
Tactics: He just charges things and teleports. He abuses mounted charges and teleport+Battle Jump to get lots of Full Attacks. He specializes in Shadow Hand maneuvers and uses Gloom Razor to consistently flat-foot his enemeies. He gets Shadowpounce next level, so he can just annihilate things by teleporting on top of them. Oh, and he rides an Advanced Magebred Warbeast Fleshraker.
Future Build: Finish CSM, then possibly take Jaunter. Otherwise unknown. Possibly a Monk dip for Sun School+Snap Kick.

The Factotum (me!)

Race: Changeling
Alignment: Neutral
Naked Stats: 12/12/12/22/8/15
Class: Factotum 9//Changeling Rogue 1/Marshal 2/Fighter 2/Master of Masks 1/Master Thrower 1/Chameleon 2
Deck Draws: Star (+2 INT), Flames, Moon (1 wish)
Tactics: 5-fold: Poison, Fear, Tripping, Iajutsu, and Versatility. He uses Master of Poisons and Virulant Toxic Assassination Gnome Quickrazers to poison foes with Black Lotus and make them cower through Imperious Command and Intimidating Strike. He trips people with Master Thrower's Trip Shot and Gloves of Tarnahirn the Vigilant, and he can destroy them with Iajutsu Focus. If none of that works, he can use any martial or exotic weapon through Master of Masks 1, so he can whip out something for the job.
Future Build: 7 more levels in Chameleon, 1 level dip in Exemplar, possibly finish Master Thrower.


So, we can function really well as a group. We are all versatile; 3 of us have some form of healing (wands, opportunistic piety, crusader strikes), 3 of us have battlefield control (wands, fear/tripping, entangling exhalation), and all of us have some form of nova ability (wands, iajutsu, pouncing charges).
We have really good equipment.

We can reliably take on creatures 3-4 CR above our ECL. We defeated 4 Dread Wraiths from the Skull Card, using our Shirts of Wraith Stalking.

My questions are:
1) Are we ready for the Tomb of Horrors, or is the DM trying to kill us off?
2) What should we spend our money/wishes on? We're all at a loss with 11 wishes to burn. My only idea was to wish for 4 Collars of Umbral Metamorphosis (continuous) or 4 Psychoactive Skins of Proteus.
3) Any advice on the future of these characters, builds, tactics etc. is welcome and appreciated.

Diarmuid
2010-08-11, 10:07 AM
Have everyone wave to the Artificer as he walks in and solos the place. Try to negotiate a share of the loot even though you will not have earned it.

Twilight Jack
2010-08-11, 10:33 AM
The 3.5 Tomb of Horrors is a joke. With two or three exceptions (which I will not spoil here), the entire thing consists of level-appropriate challenges, which can be largely negotiated by the same combinations of good mechanics and smart play that see your characters through any other scenario.

If your characters are reasonably optimized, you should be able to manage it.

The reputation of the Tomb is based upon its 1e incarnation, which existed before the notion that every bad thing that happened to your character deserved a saving throw. That module was an exercise in hideously unfair DM sadism and character death. But while cosmetically identical, the mechanics of 3.x ensure that things in the new version can be saved against, so its now mostly a collection of hideously unfair close calls.

Also, it's an adventure intended for straight 9th level characters, whether in 1e or 3.x. Especially in 3.x, going in with gestalt characters nullifies a good portion of the danger. You're less likely to have a nasty Save or Die effect targeting one of your poor saves, and your larger class skill list gives you better odds of having the skills needed to navigate a given challenge.

And all the wishes you guys have pretty much mulches any notion of a proper level of power for a 9th level party anyhow. Hopefully, the DM will not be as cruel in his management of your wishes as he will be in the running of the Tomb itself, although he really should be precisely that cruel.

Post-script: I will say this: All of your characters' combat abusiveness won't do them much good here. Combat isn't what kills you in Acererak's Tomb.

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-11, 10:38 AM
*whistles*...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163734

Basically, looking at the 3.5e version (ask the dm if they are using that one, maybe?), than we figured out it can be soloed by an ecl 5, stealth-specced Beguiler.

strider24seven
2010-08-11, 11:12 AM
Have everyone wave to the Artificer as he walks in and solos the place. Try to negotiate a share of the loot even though you will not have earned it.

Seriously? Are we (or at least, is he?) too strong for the Tomb? I realize that it's mostly puzzles and "you die, no save" traps, but we've done that as a group before. Hirelings, ftw.

Edit: Checked out the Beguiler run. Yikes. Guess it's just another dungeon run for us then. And yes, we are using the 3.5 version.

Edit Edit: I guess I should clarify, I will not read the module as not to spoil the adventure. Even reading Violet's theoretical run made me felt dirty.

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-11, 11:34 AM
Seriously? Are we (or at least, is he?) too strong for the Tomb? I realize that it's mostly puzzles and "you die, no save" traps, but we've done that as a group before. Hirelings, ftw.

Edit: Checked out the Beguiler run. Yikes. Guess it's just another dungeon run for us then. And yes, we are using the 3.5 version.

Edit Edit: I guess I should clarify, I will not read the module as not to spoil the adventure. Even reading Violet's theoretical run made me felt dirty.

If you are running it in that 3.5e version... it's not that big of a deal. If you are throwing out the idea of saves, it IS a big deal of a dungeon. It's just an 'appropriate to your level trap filled dungeon' in 3.5e rules.... lots of things allow saves... The reason it puts the fear of god into 1e characters is that it crammed as much "no save, you die" arbitrary traps and rules into as small a space as possible.

Oh, and it should be, "The artificer and factotum who both spent some time preparing to rogue it up walk in and duo the place."

Twilight Jack
2010-08-11, 12:35 PM
If you are running it in that 3.5e version... it's not that big of a deal. If you are throwing out the idea of saves, it IS a big deal of a dungeon. It's just an 'appropriate to your level trap filled dungeon' in 3.5e rules.... lots of things allow saves... The reason it puts the fear of god into 1e characters is that it crammed as much "no save, you die" arbitrary traps and rules into as small a space as possible.

Not merely arbitrary, but unfair and counter-intuitive. Many of the traps and puzzles contain "clues" to their solution. Oftentimes, the most rational solution based upon the clues presented leads to the one course of action that guarantees your messy demise.

At other times, the very process of gathering clues about the room in which you find yourself turns out to be the fatal mistake.

At yet other times, triggering a no-save death trap is the only way forward within the dungeon. And since you don't know it when you encounter it, there's no way to prepare for it and save a character or two. You literally are taxed one PC death, without warning, as a payment for continuing.

Oh, and the module specifically instructs DMs to waste hirelings wholesale in the early rooms, by having them stumble into deathtraps at every turn. That way they're not there to die heroically in your stead when things get REALLY nasty.

I mean, it makes sense that the designer of the dungeon would be that sadistic, but it's a real beast to play when one wrong move means your immediate death without even the hope of a lucky die roll to save you.