Question about human colonization

[Jan Mattys]

Hi Playgrounders,

I have just seen Pandorum (yeah, I know) with a friend.
After the movie, we started chatting about it and a question popped up. Having two different opinions about it, I decided to ask you all and hear your reasonings.

The end of the movie and the question (spoilered, just in case)

The surviving members of the flight of the Elysium emerge from the sea in Tanis, ready to start colonizing the new world. We are talking about a grand total of 1250 people, more or less.

The question is: will humanity survive, or are they doomed to fail? What we know:
- There's 1250 survivors.
- All of them (except the two main protagonists) start naked
- They have no equipment, (except the material the stasis chambers are made of)
- They will likely suffer of medium / long periods of amnesia
- The survivors are all modern (actually, future) men, so a certain understanding of the basic principles of physics and science can be taken for granted
- The Tanis natural environment is compatible with human life without any adaptation
- The survivors have been inoculated with a serum boosting their adaptive capabilities
- The remains of the Elysium starship they arrived with are lying in the sea and will probably contain useful materials.
- Sadly, at the moment of their arrival the colonists have no means whatsoever to explore the sunken ship.

What we don't know:
- The men / women ratio
- The specialization (or lack thereof) of the surviving crew members
- The hostility of the natural Tanis environment

Can 1200 men in such conditions survive, and, in the long run, prosper to create a new home world for the human race? What do you think?



Answer and motivate!

[GenericGuy]

I believe recent genetic studies have shown that there was a period of time when the human race's population was as low as 2,000(around 70,000 BC). Anyways yes I believe that would be enough genetic diversity for the race to survive, and modern humans are not as frail as most people believe(are insanely high endurance compared to other animals for one).

[Frozen_Feet]

Rough estimate is that a population of mere 200 inviduals would remain healthy for two centuries, given livable conditions. Only a century or so ago, there were only few hundreds of elks here in Finland; now there are tens of thousands, as the population was given a chance to recover.

So I'd say yes, they can survive... provided they didn't land in extreme conditions, like, say, a desert, glacier, or other environment inherently uninhabitable without special equipment.

[chiasaur11]

They all had genetic tweaking capable of turning them into supermonsters, didn't they?

Should do alright.

But are we sure that earth was really destroyed?

I've seen this game before.

You say you're sending three arks, tell the advertising account executives they're in Ark B, Ark A and C will be along shortly, and the planet will go boom and WHAM.

Rid of all the middlemen in one fell swoop.

[Fri]

I once heard that about 160 people is enough to sustain themselves genetically, that is to keep the recessive genes out and such. I can't give the quotation though.

But still, I believe that with that low number the people need to... control their familes, by that I mean to keep strict rules on which family can marry which family and such, to keep themselves from inbreeding.

edit: found a link about it http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=1270

[Caewil]

It won't matter much. 1250 people are more than enough to keep inbreeding problems to a minimum. Plus, without sufficient numbers of people, endemic diseases such as the common cold will likely go extinct. So the risk of lacking disease resistant genes is significantly decreased.

However, do they have livestock, cereal crops or any other means of food production? Without agriculture they're going to have to rely on hunting/gathering, which would retard any colonization effort significantly until native crops and animals can be substituted. Population growth would be low until then.

[Innis Cabal]

edit: found a link about it http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=1270

I'd take it a bit more seriously if someone had gone through and edited it. Otherwise ?you ?get ?this or thing?s like that. Makes it look sloppy and rather unprofessional.

[factotum]

I believe recent genetic studies have shown that there was a period of time when the human race's population was as low as 2,000(around 70,000 BC).

I thought it was even lower than that--down to a few hundred individuals.

[Fri]

I'd take it a bit more seriously if someone had gone through and edited it. Otherwise ?you ?get ?this or thing?s like that. Makes it look sloppy and rather unprofessional.

I think it's actually because of the age. something like, uncompatibility of the article with the new layout or format of the current website or something. It's from 2002.

[Poison_Fish]

Caewil pretty much has the golden question. The colony growth rate will largely be affected by their sustainability, and production capacity, of food and resources. Building a shelter can likely be done in most native environments (Be it digging, plant cover, etc.) but the scarcity or abundance of food, especially something that can be grown in mass, is going to be a very major factor in terms of restarting the human race. With supposed medical knowledge that the colonists have though, birth issues and basic health should be easier to maintain so one of the larger killers of the olden days won't be around much. So once again, the amount of food they can produce is golden question.

That being said, I know nothing of this series that spawned this question, but now I'm interested. Aha! here it is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandorum). I'm surprised I missed this with my love of sci-fi ;_;.

[chiasaur11]

Yeah, happens a lot in old parts of the 'net.

Not unprofessional, exactly, but unfortunate.

[Poison_Fish]

I blame getting in to deep to my other areas of interest. That and having to write thesis's.

[Fri]

I believe that chia was talking about the article that I linked, PF :smallwink:

[GolemsVoice]

Provided they find plants and animals that are edible, I'd say they shouldn't have too much problem surviving. I don't know anything about this movie, so I imagine they landed in an environment similar to Europe? Mild summers and winters, plenty of moisture?

They will struggle at the beginning, but building huts from trees and other material won't be that difficult. The real factor is how successfl they will be able to hunt, and gather. If they survivie the initial phase, they can start growing crops and domesticating livestock, and if they have a solid foundation from this, no problem!

[Cyrion]

They'll do fine as long as the choireboys don't start their own regime and focus just on hunting pigs and the other kids on the island.

[Yora]

Compared to prehistoric humans, modern humans have the huge advantage of physics and machines. If you know what you want to build and have a rough idea how it's supposed to work, it's a lot easier to do than if you didn't even know it's possible. Many extremely useful things are actually very simple, if you know how it works. You might not be able to build a combustion engine with nothing but sticks and sharp rocks, but a cart with wheels is much better than carrying heavy things on your shoulders.
I think the critical part is the first few weeks and months. After that people should be able to live quite well using bamboo-tech Robinson Crusoe style. :smallbiggrin:
Just make sure you start early with writing down basic blueprints for advanced machines you know, so later generations can use them once the neccessary infrastructure is developed. In some decades, someone will be very greatful about not having to come up with the concept for a combustion engine by himself.

[Poison_Fish]

I believe that chia was talking about the article that I linked, PF :smallwink:

Bah! It was late at night and I still have one paper I need to finish ;_;.

[warty goblin]

Compared to prehistoric humans, modern humans have the huge advantage of physics and machines. If you know what you want to build and have a rough idea how it's supposed to work, it's a lot easier to do than if you didn't even know it's possible. Many extremely useful things are actually very simple, if you know how it works. You might not be able to build a combustion engine with nothing but sticks and sharp rocks, but a cart with wheels is much better than carrying heavy things on your shoulders.


The problem - and this problem is vast - is that most people from a place with technology at least as advanced as modern America's are essentially clueless about how to actually locate, harvest, prepare and store food in a non man-made environment. I am no expert in this field, but I know enough to be aware that this is far complex than the prevailing wisdom would indicate, and with a bunch of naked people in the wilderness you've got literally a matter of days to figure this out before hunger and exposure vastly weaken them.

The questions of importance aren't 'can you make a cart' they're things like:

1) Do you know how to manufacture stone and wooden tools, using only non-manufactured materials?

2) Do you know how to track, ambush, and kill prey animals using only these tools?

3) Do you know how to prepare meat safely?

4) Do you know how to identify edible plants, and distinguish them from the ones that at best are indigestible, and at worst sicken or kill you?

5) Can you manufacture some form of clothing very quickly, at least sufficient to cover your feet? Because the natural environment is very hard on unprotected skin, and very few people living in a modern setting will have the protective callouses on their feet that enable them to walk around it without suffering painful and slowing injury, and running a significant risk of infection.

6) How about identifying clean drinking water? 'Cause unless you can do this, you've got two days, three tops.

Honestly my guess? Everybody ends up as food for some large predator, as soon as the nearest group figures out that they taste good, run slowly, and don't have sharp claws. Modern humans are too soft, weak, and lack the skills and knowledge necessary to survive in the wilderness without significant technological aid.

[JonestheSpy]

The problem - and this problem is vast - is that most people from a place with technology at least as advanced as modern America's are essentially clueless about how to actually locate, harvest, prepare and store food in a non man-made environment. I am no expert in this field, but I know enough to be aware that this is far complex than the prevailing wisdom would indicate, and with a bunch of naked people in the wilderness you've got literally a matter of days to figure this out before hunger and exposure vastly weaken them.


Jared Diamond wrote about this in his intro to his seminal work on the effect of environment on human history, Guns, Germs, and Steel. He said flat-out that the hunter-gatherers he spent time with in New Guniea were smarter than the average resident of a modern-industrial state, as evidenced that thy just knew so much more. The level of detail they held in their heads about their environment and how to survive in it dwarfed the sum total of what the average first-worlder knew about pretty much everything - they had to, just to live.

[Caewil]

Disease shouldn't kill too many of them yet. They're from another planet, so parasites and disease causing microbes will take a while to adapt to them. Most of the killer diseases for modern humans originated from livestock or other humans, of which there aren't enough for the diseases to become endemic (self sustaining within a population).

Diseases such as the common cold survive by spreading to non-resistant individuals constantly until the next generation is born without significant resistance to them. With a population of 1250, everyone will rapidly either be completely immune or dead.

They don't just have natural stuff, the statsis chambers/whatnot probably have metal and ceramic components. Most prey animals are afraid of humans only because of long periods of having adapted to our hunting skills. When humans arrived in the new world, the native americans and later, the europeans, they just killed most of the large animals. Having the ability to kill stuff from a range is an amazing advantage when animals don't expect it.

[devinkowalczyk]

I think they will be lost back to their stone age counterparts. The first generation will know that the ship is down in the ocean, but soon it will become a story and a legend. Something like a lost continent of advanced technology that was lost in a single night?

An interesting idea I came across is everything is built upon each other. If technology was lost, then you have to start over at zero. You cannot make anything from scratch except for the most basic items. So you basically have 1 generation to rebuild because once the primary information is gone then it will just be an attempt at duplicating what the next generation thinks we had.

[factotum]

I'm not too convinced about the "back to the stone age" thing. Mining and smelting metals is not something that requires high technological achievement (they were doing it quite happily in the Bronze Age five thousand years ago!), and more to the point, modern-day people have writing on their side. They might not be able to get back to the point of spaceflight before the first generation of colonists die out, but I don't think their children would be hunting animals with wooden spears and living in caves either!

[super dark33]

yep, of course they will survive. there will be predetors on the planet and herding animals (if this planet is suitable),

[devinkowalczyk]

I'm not too convinced about the "back to the stone age" thing. Mining and smelting metals is not something that requires high technological achievement (they were doing it quite happily in the Bronze Age five thousand years ago!), and more to the point, modern-day people have writing on their side. They might not be able to get back to the point of spaceflight before the first generation of colonists die out, but I don't think their children would be hunting animals with wooden spears and living in caves either!

Imagine if we took everything away from you and dropped you into the middle of the forrest.
You might be able to write a few things down, sure, but future generations would have to decipher them and key details or mistranslations would occur.

I think we would go exactly back to the stone age because finding and smelting iron to steel requires coke, a process not many people know how to do.

[Ponderthought]

What were forgetting here is these people are colonists. Some will have undoubtedly been trained in survival, manufacturing tools and basic agriculture. Modern, normal people would have problems, but these people knew they were headed to an undeveloped planet. Plus, Im sure there are some engineers, and those pods were a wealth of technology just begging to be re-purposed.

[leafman]

I think the big problem with the scenario is the number of people versus the amount of food those people will require to survive. The plant and animal population would need to be pretty large to sustain the colony long enough for the colonists to domesticate the indiginous life.

[tyckspoon]

I think we would go exactly back to the stone age because finding and smelting iron to steel requires coke, a process not many people know how to do.

:smallconfused:
I hope you're just being inexact, because there is a huuuuge range of technology in between the points of 'Stone Age' and 'able to refine steel on an industrial scale' (you can make enough steel for weapons with basically pottery and some knowledge of metallurgy.) Assuming the putative colonists can survive the first few weeks (starting out naked and with no known safe food and water supplies is a huge hurdle) they'll probably settle into early Industrial age technology; steam power runs just fine with copper and bronze. Copper- at least on Earth- has the notable trait of occurring in surface-accessible deposits, so the colony can have metal tools without first having to scrounge enough other materials to make working mining tools.

[GM.Casper]

Dont forget that a part of the ship is still sticking out of the water. If they get their hands on some spacesuits, they can access the ship. Remember all those cargo containers? Propably full of supplies to start a colony.

[devinkowalczyk]

:smallconfused:
I hope you're just being inexact, because there is a huuuuge range of technology in between the points of 'Stone Age' and 'able to refine steel on an industrial scale' (you can make enough steel for weapons with basically pottery and some knowledge of metallurgy.) Assuming the putative colonists can survive the first few weeks (starting out naked and with no known safe food and water supplies is a huge hurdle) they'll probably settle into early Industrial age technology; steam power runs just fine with copper and bronze. Copper- at least on Earth- has the notable trait of occurring in surface-accessible deposits, so the colony can have metal tools without first having to scrounge enough other materials to make working mining tools.

Yea, didn't know the exact stuff, so I just left it vague.

Question: How many average people have the knowledge to make something like a steam engine? refined copper/iron/metal? The average person doesn't. It just doesn't come up. You might be able to speed up human development with writing, but you would still need to hit all the markers of civilization.

What do you know without looking anything up? Do you know how steam engines work? How to create textiles? Take copper out of copper ore? Identify copper ore?

[Frozen_Feet]

Without really seeing the movie, all I can say is that anyone with a lick of sense would guarantee all people involved in a project like this would be highly trained in basic survival skills in addition to possible special fields. They'd be anything but 'average persons'.

[Knaight]

What do you know without looking anything up? Do you know how steam engines work? How to create textiles? Take copper out of copper ore? Identify copper ore?

Yet these goals are already defined and exist. The invention of the steam engine -to use your first example- requires figuring out that steam can be used as a power source, then requires figuring out that it would be a convenient power source for locomotion, then requires actually designing and building the thing. Those first two steps, a pair of epiphanies that represent the majority of the delay, are completely eliminated.

[chiasaur11]

Yet these goals are already defined and exist. The invention of the steam engine -to use your first example- requires figuring out that steam can be used as a power source, then requires figuring out that it would be a convenient power source for locomotion, then requires actually designing and building the thing. Those first two steps, a pair of epiphanies that represent the majority of the delay, are completely eliminated.

It's like the pet door.

The tricky bit is figuring out you need it. Once that's done, it's so obvious that it's surprising nobody did it first.

[Cyrion]

Yea, didn't know the exact stuff, so I just left it vague.

Question: How many average people have the knowledge to make something like a steam engine? refined copper/iron/metal? The average person doesn't. It just doesn't come up. You might be able to speed up human development with writing, but you would still need to hit all the markers of civilization.

What do you know without looking anything up? Do you know how steam engines work? How to create textiles? Take copper out of copper ore? Identify copper ore?

In addition to the excellent point already made about being trained colonists, if any of those folks are Boy Scouts (or gamers :smallwink:), there's a good chance that you've got some very good, applicable skills available to you. For example, yes, I can make textiles, rope, secure shelters, a variety of tools.

[Starshade]

My thought is it's possible colonists without any tools, equipment or components and machinery to use, salvaged workable gear from the ship, etc, building steam machines, and rebuilding workable technology ala 1840-1880's would be quite hard. Its possible, if there is NO gear to build with, the colonists would be having a wery hard time making anything approaching viking age or medival tech gear, and would be blown back to stoneage tech (native american pre white man, archaic european hunter or meso american stone city dvellers ala Maya). Id assume the persons would write down everything possible about science and high tech, and archaic tech they knew, to preserve it for coming generations.

But by the time they got the tools, those scriptures could wery well have been turned to their holy books, and worship the mighty Atom, with the divine messengers Einstein, Newton, Hawkins and making powerplant temples. :smallbiggrin:

[Elana]

Assuming people of average intelligence, who were trained in colonizing a new world.

I would say they reach stone age during the first 3 weeks.

After that it depends on what is available.

If the proper minerals are nearby they could have the bronze age in full swing by the end of the first year.

Steam powered engines should be around about at the same time.
(Steam engines can be build just with wood and stone if it should be really necessary)

Within 5 years they will have an industrial age..but due to the rather small population it will be very different from our industrial age.

For example it is very likely that they will not have coal or iron, but to have electricity. (Assuming there was copper. Without any reachable metals electricity would be problematic to say the least)

[Kcalehc]

They have the 'stasis chambers' no? so they quite possibly have a working source of electricity, metal, possibly some textiles and plastics all ready and to hand. It's likely that some of the colonists are engineers of some sort, possibly some military folks also; so you've elements that can repurpose what little equipment they have and perorm some basic survival tasks.

Assuming that the stasis things had any tubing, and various metal surfaces and that there is any kind of water available, a still (solar or using flame) is quite simple to manufacture. Mostly clean water is now available.

Smelting metal into crude weapons shouldn't be hard. Assuming there are rocks available to carve molds and build a furnace and that wood is available to make fire. It's not going to be anything awesome, but it'll help.

Assuming they can get or make blades then wooden spears, bows and arrows are not too difficult, as are palisades, huts and other shelter. Now you've got a base of operations and a standing army to defend it.

The hardest part, unless there is an already established heirarchy, will be the politics. Who's in charge, who decides what to do next, who allocates resources, who's fault is it we crashed in the first place? And many more questions will have to be decided (and likely rgued and possibly fought over. Splits in the population could be devastating for some (e.g. all the engineers and soldiers decide to leave all the artists and history teachers and form their own team somewhere else), and possibly create a situation where attrition from conflict keeps the population down.

[Gamerlord]

Hi Playgrounders,

I have just seen Pandorum (yeah, I know) with a friend.
After the movie, we started chatting about it and a question popped up. Having two different opinions about it, I decided to ask you all and hear your reasonings.

The end of the movie and the question (spoilered, just in case)

The surviving members of the flight of the Elysium emerge from the sea in Tanis, ready to start colonizing the new world. We are talking about a grand total of 1250 people, more or less.

The question is: will humanity survive, or are they doomed to fail? What we know:
- There's 1250 survivors.
- All of them (except the two main protagonists) start naked
- They have no equipment, (except the material the stasis chambers are made of)
- They will likely suffer of medium / long periods of amnesia
- The survivors are all modern (actually, future) men, so a certain understanding of the basic principles of physics and science can be taken for granted
- The Tanis natural environment is compatible with human life without any adaptation
- The survivors have been inoculated with a serum boosting their adaptive capabilities
- The remains of the Elysium starship they arrived with are lying in the sea and will probably contain useful materials.
- Sadly, at the moment of their arrival the colonists have no means whatsoever to explore the sunken ship.

What we don't know:
- The men / women ratio
- The specialization (or lack thereof) of the surviving crew members
- The hostility of the natural Tanis environment

Can 1200 men in such conditions survive, and, in the long run, prosper to create a new home world for the human race? What do you think?



Answer and motivate!
Haven't seen that movie, so I must ask:
Does the planet have a sentient species of at least tribal level already there? If so, depending on that species population and hostility, PROBLEM.
Otherwise, it would be very rough, but they might make it.

[Caewil]

I do in fact know how to extract and refine iron ore. I studied the method just after the hypothetical "what if you were teleported to the dark ages" thread. If they're lucky enough, they might be able to obtain bog iron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron). It's not high quality, but the method is fairly simple.

Also, producing most compounds shouldn't be difficult. All that is required is that earlier methods be used instead of modern, industrial ones. (saltpeter, sulphur, potassium, etc) I even learned to make gunpowder in science class so I'm fairly well-prepared if I ever get into a Connecticut Yankee situation.

[devinkowalczyk]

Few things, since I am already being doubted

How many non nerds, non oddballs (yes, myself included) know how to do jack other than push paper or work on a computer? Especially in the future. How many know how to smelt, craft, or work with their hands?


A note on one of them...
not to attack, but carving rocks to make iron weapons is not cost efficient in terms of energy or even a good method.
And I don't believe wood packs enough heat to melt iron.
Not to mention all the other chemicals you need to make a non brittle alloy.

The bog iron is a good idea. I had forgotten about that.

[factotum]

And I don't believe wood packs enough heat to melt iron.


Wood might not, but a charcoal furnace driven by bellows certainly would!

[warty goblin]

The thing is that working iron or essentially any other metal is irrelevant in this scenario. If the colonists manage to survive, they need to do it without complex tools that take lots of time and raw materials to create. If they depend on such tools, they will starve to death before they can get anything particularly useful done.

Only if they can survive does the ability to create complex tools become at all relevant. First however they need at least a reasonably sustainable source of food, clean water, and some form of shelter. Until that it doesn't matter if they're refining uranium to power their nuclear tipped hunting spears.

[Miklus]

Interresting question. I have not seen the movie, but unless they land in a dessert or an arctic wasteland, I'd say most of them will survive.

I assume most of the colonists are adults. There are no children (yet) and no old folks. This is a huge advantage. Everyone can either hunt or gather.

The first problem is fresh water. This should not be too hard to find. Just walk along the shore until you find a stream. If there are no water -> colony fail.

The next problem is food. If there is enough plants, berries, fruit and whatnot...problem solved. Some might be poisonous. Someone brave will have to be first and eat just a little piece. That will probably not kill them, only make them womit. Some roots might good to eats too. Snails, bugs, mushrooms...humans are omnivores. Huge advantage. During famines, people have eaten the bark off trees.

If there is little or no plants, they will have to hunt. Materials from the ship such as metal, ceramics or glass would make good spear heads. That and teamwork plus unsuspecting animals would give a good food source.

The next step will probably be to make a bow. This is harder than making a spear, but better at killing small animals. Fishing equipment is next on the list, if fish-like creatures are awailable.

I hope there are wood? If not, they will have to eat the meat raw. This might not be a problem as long as the meat is fresh. But fire would be nice for warmth too. Otherwise furs will have to do. Someone mentioned shoes, they are very importaint too.

So to sum up: They will survive and thrive if the climate and season is moderate. Humans are tough. Just think of the eskimos of Greenland. There are only ice, seals and big scary polar bears up there. But people have lived there for millinia. I one saw a nature program where a bushman ran down a Kudu (an antilope). He just ran after it for a couple of hours until the Kudu dropped from exhaustion, then walked up and killed it.

But...As a socierty, there are problems. No area can sustain 1250 hunter-gatherers. They will have to split up. Small tribes will form. There will be sqabbles over land. It will be the stone age all over again for a very long time, behaps for thousands for years.

Forget about steam engines and gunpower and whatnot. Humanity will have to climb back up the ladder one step at a time.

[devinkowalczyk]

lol
that kind of sums it up for me

[warty goblin]

I hope there are wood? If not, they will have to eat the meat raw. This might not be a problem as long as the meat is fresh. But fire would be nice for warmth too. Otherwise furs will have to do. Someone mentioned shoes, they are very importaint too.

There are plenty of things you can burn besides wood. Large animal dung works well, as does peat, although harvesting that is probably going to be rather difficult.


So to sum up: They will survive and thrive if the climate and season is moderate. Humans are tough. Just think of the eskimos of Greenland. There are only ice, seals and big scary polar bears up there. But people have lived there for millinia. I one saw a nature program where a bushman ran down a Kudu (an antilope). He just ran after it for a couple of hours until the Kudu dropped from exhaustion, then walked up and killed it.
Right, but it's not like the Inuit were simply dropped into the arctic one day and forced to figure out how to survive in an utterly alien environment from scratch, they (or their long distant ancestors) moved into the region more or less gradually so that existing skills and knowledge could be adapted.

Also I think 'just' is entirely the wrong word to use for running down and antelope. Doing so requires not only the physical endurance to run for most of a day - without shoes or water in that case IIRC - but also the skill to track the animal, and tracking is harder than people tend to think, particularly when you are pursuing a specific individual animal and not a herd. The last thing I'd imagine you want to do on an endurance hunt is to chase one animal for three hours, then get its tracks confused and tear off chasing another one.

Put another way, if the planet has edible food and drinkable water, a climate not too extreme, and breathable air it is possible for humans to survive there. The problem is whether or not a group of unprepared humans can master the skills they need to survive in the few days/weeks before they become too weakened, sick, and physically damaged to function if they don't.

[Caewil]

1) If there are fish in sufficient quantity, hunting is unnecessary. It isn't physically demanding like chasing antelope, you just have to know how to do it. Clams, crabs and all sorts of seafood should be in abundance.

2) The startle distance for animals in contact with modern humans is much longer than for animals which have never been exposed to them. Ranged weaponry, such as throwing spears or bows, would be incredibly effective against animals which don't run the second they see a human aiming at them.

[The_Admiral]

how about allergies?

[warty goblin]

1) If there are fish in sufficient quantity, hunting is unnecessary. It isn't physically demanding like chasing antelope, you just have to know how to do it. Clams, crabs and all sorts of seafood should be in abundance.

A fair point, particularly the shellfish. Getting fish out of deep water is harder.


2) The startle distance for animals in contact with modern humans is much longer than for animals which have never been exposed to them. Ranged weaponry, such as throwing spears or bows, would be incredibly effective against animals which don't run the second they see a human aiming at them.
That makes it easier yes, but lemme ask you this: How many people living in a modern industrial society have the physical coordination and skill to accurately throw a spear or javelin into a target thirty or forty feet away with enough force to inflict a significant wound? I suspect it is harder than most of us think it is.

[Hylleddin]

This isn't just a random group of people. These are colonists who have very likely to have been trained for wilderness survival. And like others have said, a lot of the important technologies for them is stuff that's easy to make, you just need to know it's useful.

However, they could be in quite a bit of trouble in the long term. They don't have any seed, and local plants are going to be all wild. A lot of the productivity of modern, or even Bronze Age crops is the millenia of breeding they've had. Any wild crops aren't going to have been breed like that. Look at wild corn versus corn crops. The wild stuff isn't any where near as productive.*

This will depend a lot on how good the local area is. the Pacific northwest could support small cities with just hunter-gathering (well, mostly fishing. You know what I mean). If they can keep dense enough, they can keep up a decent government and culture. But if it's too poor, Miklus's situation happens.

But, if they can retrieve seed from the colony ship somehow, it's a different story.

*Of course, if their biochemistry isn't compatible with local life for some reason, they're screwed.

[Knaight]

However, they could be in quite a bit of trouble in the long term. They don't have any seed, and local plants are going to be all wild. A lot of the productivity of modern, or even Bronze Age crops is the millenia of breeding they've had. Any wild crops aren't going to have been breed like that. Look at wild corn versus corn crops. The wild stuff isn't any where near as productive.*

*Of course, if their biochemistry isn't compatible with local life for some reason, they're screwed.

Presumably the world they were sent to wasn't picked at random and is actually easy enough to live on.

[Hylleddin]

Presumably the world they were sent to wasn't picked at random and is actually easy enough to live on.

Well, they were originally supposed to have the supplies in the ship. With them, I'm sure the world would be easy to live on. But yeah, I read a bit more about the movie, and their biochemistry isn't a problem.

[factotum]

I would consider it unlikely that they'd send colonists to a biochemically incompatible world with a bunch of seeds anyway--they'd have no idea if the seeds would take, or if the plants produced would be able to thrive despite the native flora and fauna!