Finding the proper alignment

[genericname]

I'm having some real trouble with coming up with an alignment for my wizard. The character concept is one of a man who seeks solely to strengthen himself through whatever means he can. Not for the standard "I want power to change things" that leads characters to become a BBEG later in life, but the absolute thirst for knowledge of magic and the power it gives. He wants to be the top of his game so to speak. Think of him like a wannabe version of The Archive from Dresden Files.

My problem is, I can't seem how to place him on the law/chaos bar. I think he would be True Neutral personally, as he takes no stock in any particular system or faith besides himself. But my friend (and future dm) thinks that he would be lawful just by having spent all of his time trying to improve himself.

Opinions? Thoughts?

[Saph]

Could be anywhere in the LN - N - LE - NE area, depending on how methodical he is and how far he's willing to go in pursuit of knowledge and power.

I'd guess True Neutral. If he's particularly organised and systematic about his long-term-plan about gaining power, Lawful Neutral.

[AtopTheMountain]

I'd need more info, but as given I'd probably peg him as True Neutral. I can see room on both sides -- he might not care about authority if it stops him from gaining power (Chaos), or he might have developed an extremely ordered and logical mind from years of study (Law).

EDIT: And ninja'd.

[Ravens_cry]

Lawful Neutral fits well in my mind. Unyielding dedication to a goal strikes this one as pretty lawful behaviour. Neutral because their reasons for wanting this goal are purely for their own self interest.

[ericgrau]

That description doesn't seem to say much about alignment. The first thing I'd do is leave the alignment field blank and not worry about it unless needed. There's not much point until you're hit by a word of chaos or something.

If you really need an alignment and your character's means of getting power is disciplined and rigorous then that's lawful behavior. Wizards in general tend to be lawful for this reason. If he doesn't have a set way of going about it then that's chaotic.

[Excession]

Do you really mean "through whatever means he can"?

If he really has limits at all then your character is going to end up committing evil acts solely for his own advantage. If you are, for example, killing people in order to experiment with necromancy I can't see any way of remaining neutral. Even if you don't enjoy it, or regret the losses that are required to further your knowledge, you're still murdering people for personal gain.

If you have some limits I could understand neutral, but if you'd burn down an orphanage in the pursuit of knowledge, you're evil. Probably an interesting sort of evil though.

[snoopy13a]

I'm having some real trouble with coming up with an alignment for my wizard. The character concept is one of a man who seeks solely to strengthen himself through whatever means he can. Not for the standard "I want power to change things" that leads characters to become a BBEG later in life, but the absolute thirst for knowledge of magic and the power it gives. He wants to be the top of his game so to speak. Think of him like a wannabe version of The Archive from Dresden Files.

My problem is, I can't seem how to place him on the law/chaos bar. I think he would be True Neutral personally, as he takes no stock in any particular system or faith besides himself. But my friend (and future dm) thinks that he would be lawful just by having spent all of his time trying to improve himself.

Opinions? Thoughts?

True neutral sounds right.

Self-improvement has nothing to do with being lawful or chaotic. After all, Robin Hood is the archetype for chaotic good and I'm sure he spent quite a bit of time practicing his archery.

The Lawful/chaotic axis is more of how your character percieves society and their role within.

[genericname]

How I want to play the character is in fact any means with a logic to them. If he needs to kill someone, ala a sacrifice, he would go for the least useful members of society in it. So, more likely to burn down a jail than an orphanage.

[PallElendro]

Unaligned.

[Chaelos]

Depends on "whatever means he can" actually means.

Would he murder a roomful of babies to get more power? Would he murder one person solely to get more powerful? If so, peg him as evil.

Would he steal from someone to get more powerful? That's certainly selfish, but more neutral than evil.

EDIT: Based on your comment, definitely evil. Lawful evil in the sense that he has an ordered mind, not in the sense that he obeys (or should obey) and kind of law.

[Zaydos]

True neutral, although as has been oft repeated the any means necessary may push him to the dark side.

[genericname]

So, you would generally agree that he is True neutral in serious danger of falling into evil.

That should be fun to play.

[ericgrau]

If he'll truly use any means to gain power without regard to method or madness, then that's chaotic. If he's that and rigorous and methodical about it (method to the madness?), then it's neutral as in lawful/chaotic. That is, neutral as in both not neutral as in neither.

I mean burning down jails sounds extremely chaotic. Besides being a wild act overall (even if it was another building), with a jail in particular you're telling the legitimate authorities of crime and punishment to "shove it" and "they're criminals, who cares if they burn instead of carrying out their sentence. Gimme mah powah".

[Zodiac]

Your character appears to be a utilitarian, so I would say that he is chaotic (I define law v. chaos as actually being the sliding scale between deontology v. consequentialism in order to make it less fuzzy), CN or CE depending on how far your character is willing to go in order to obtain power.

[Math_Mage]

Unaligned.

This. Wanting to become powerful is not a goal that implies an alignment. How you fill in that space on the sheet depends on how you fill out the character.

[Vitruviansquid]

To determine whether a character is more lawful or chaotic, I use this test:

Is your character afraid of/enraged by or comforted by the presence of policemen?

If afraid of or enraged by the presence of policemen, he's chaotic.

If comforted by the presence of policemen, he's lawful.

[Math_Mage]

To determine whether a character is more lawful or chaotic, I use this test:

Is your character afraid of/enraged by or comforted by the presence of policemen?

If afraid of or enraged by the presence of policemen, he's chaotic.

If comforted by the presence of policemen, he's lawful.

My Chaotic characters are comforted by the presence of policemen...easy bribe targets. :smalltongue:

[Zaydos]

If I'm lawful evil I have reasons to fear the cops, they might want protection money.

[Kaww]

Just write down N. It can go in any direction, and you have the freedom to reach your goals, whatever they might be.
DM will change it if it changes.

[Peregrine]

The Lawful/chaotic axis is more of how your character percieves society and their role within.

That's my view too. Lawful characters approve of society, tradition, order and norms, not just a methodical approach to their own desires. They tend to respect everyone's rules and laws, even when they don't follow them themselves (because two laws or rules can often conflict).


This. Wanting to become powerful is not a goal that implies an alignment. How you fill in that space on the sheet depends on how you fill out the character.

This goal isn't particularly aligned, but the means, motives and methods are. He does it for his own benefit, not to help nor to harm others (moral Neutral). He doesn't do things on a whim nor have particularly strong dislike for society and structure (not Chaotic). That much has been made pretty clear, leaving LN and N.

But, he doesn't seem to particularly like society, structure and norms, and doesn't act for the good of the many (not Lawful either, so ethical Neutral). He is more in the Lawful half of the box, and as others have said, he's got a few tendencies that could blossom into Evil down the track.

Count me in for True Neutral with a risk of sliding towards Evil, too.

[potatocubed]

Stick 'N' on the character sheet and then you can fill in some other letter later if you seem to be sliding in one direction or another.

(I'm betting he'll go NE eventually, but that's a matter for play to work out.)

[Psyx]

Being very meta in an IC way: A character wanting to be the BEST at magic would possibly want access to both good and evil spells. Thus he would recognise that in order to master such magics, he needs to tread the line between good and evil: committing to neither.

That's going to require discipline, and a non-chaotic attitude.

I'd go N or maybe LN. With a fall due at some point, no doubt.

After all: To be the best, you need time. A lot of time. Lichdom does that for you...

[Snake-Aes]

Being very meta in an IC way: A character wanting to be the BEST at magic would possibly want access to both good and evil spells. Thus he would recognise that in order to master such magics, he needs to tread the line between good and evil: committing to neither.

That's going to require discipline, and a non-chaotic attitude.

I'd go N or maybe LN. With a fall due at some point, no doubt.

After all: To be the best, you need time. A lot of time. Lichdom does that for you...

Or he could be evil, benefit from it and cast spells that let him cast Good spells.


Basically nothing the op said gives much on the alignment. The clearest statement is "whatever means he can". Taken literally, he's evil because of that.