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Noedig
2010-08-11, 07:36 PM
So I'm playing my first fighter. Picked a human, got some good ability scores, and picked my first three feats. I'm going for a mobile, trip using fighter. Im using a halbred right now, I know its not as optimal as it could be. Any advice on gear, ect?

Feats are:

1 Dodge (1st)
1 Mobility (Human)
1 Combat Expertise (Fighter)

Planned:
2 Improved Trip (Fighter)
3 Exotic Weap Prof Spiked Chain (3rd)
4 Spring Attack (Fighter) (+1 Str = 18)
6 Combat Reflexes (6th)
6 Power Attack (Fighter)
8 Cleave (Fighter) (+1 ?)
9 Great Cleave (9th)
10 ?
12 ?
12 ?

gallagher
2010-08-11, 07:40 PM
spring attack is a trap, you want to be full attacking as much as you can.

if you want a real trip fiend, and all of it being Core, here is Saph's Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415)

also to look at for tips, here is Jack B Quick (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1:_Jack_B._Quick)

ericgrau
2010-08-11, 07:50 PM
Actually spring attack could work well with tripping and a reach weapon. You make sure you end up 5 feet away from the guy you trip. He can't attack you at all, even at a -4. More importantly he can't trip you back. If he gets up, he provokes. If he crawls towards or away from you, he provokes. There is no "5 foot crawl". You might want to get combat reflexes too. Full attacks won't matter as much until you get a source of haste like a caster or boots of speed. Then your 2nd attack is at full BAB instead of -5. At that point ya you'll want to full attack more often, but at least your first attack on each foe can be a spring attack b/c you have to move up to him anyway.

If you want to get much out of power attack at higher levels you need a way to overcome the AB penalty. Missing after you reach high damage output is devastating. That means shock trooper cheese, pumping your attack bonus and/or fighting low AC foes. If "low AC" comes from a lot of weenies, that's when cleave will be useful too. Against foes that take time to drop cleave will likewise be of little use. If none of the above apply you'll get more damage out of weapon focus (more hits) and weapon specialization (more net damage, after you count all the hits you lost to dumping AB into power attack).

EDIT: Wait a second, a halberd isn't a reach weapon. Trade it for a guisarme.

Boci
2010-08-11, 07:52 PM
Great cleave generally is not worth it, since by level 9 you will rarely be fighting things you can drop in one hit.

gallagher
2010-08-11, 07:59 PM
Actually spring attack could work well with tripping and a reach weapon. You make sure you end up 5 feet away from the guy you trip.

with previously stated reach weapon, he will already be 10 feet away after you hit him, so you wont need to move.

and if you shy away from a -5 to hit from your second attack, use that as the one to trip. you use a touch attack to hit them

ericgrau
2010-08-11, 08:00 PM
with previously stated reach weapon, he will already be 10 feet away after you hit him, so you wont need to move.
Oh ya. Hmm, guess there's no point then. Unless the enemy's full attack is nastier than yours. Then I can see a point, though it depends on the campaign. Certainly not the kind of campaign where you'd be cleaving if the baddy is so tough.

Andion Isurand
2010-08-11, 08:02 PM
You could take Martial Study (insert Desert Wind Manuver here) to add Tumble to your list of class skills and use it to help prevent provoking AoOs and gain extra AC when fighting defensively or performing an all out defense.

gallagher
2010-08-11, 08:09 PM
also, try and pick up a copy of dungeonscape. it literally makes the fighter worth playing for more than 2 levels. after 6 levels, you can bullrush opponants for 8d6 or so damage plus strength damage if you knock them into something solid. note that this means you can knock them into other opponents, who would also take damage.

Noedig
2010-08-11, 08:38 PM
Okay so after considering the above posts, here's the planned feats:

2 Improved Trip (Fighter)
3 Exotic Weap Prof Spiked Chain (3rd)
4 Spring Attack (Fighter) (+1 Str = 18)
6 Combat Reflexes (6th)
6 Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain)
8 Weapon Spec (Spiked Chain)

Any suggestions on light gear? I'd like to get the most out of my movement, so I was thinking mithril full plate.

gallagher
2010-08-11, 08:50 PM
Okay so after considering the above posts, here's the planned feats:

2 Improved Trip (Fighter)
3 Exotic Weap Prof Spiked Chain (3rd)
4 Spring Attack (Fighter) (+1 Str = 18)
6 Combat Reflexes (6th)
6 Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain)
8 Weapon Spec (Spiked Chain)

Any suggestions on light gear? I'd like to get the most out of my movement, so I was thinking mithril full plate.

what are the allowed books? because we can all collectively improve that build alot. for instance, getting rid of weapon spec.

also, does it have to be straight fighter?

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-11, 08:56 PM
Okay... uhhh...

Retrain out dodge and mobility using the Player's Handbook II rules. Don't take spring attack, don't take weapon focus, don't take weapon specialization.

consider these feats, which you will have the prereqs for:
curling wave strike (stormwrack)
stand still (expanded psionics handbook/srd)
knock-down (deities and demigods/sword and fist)
robilar's gambit (player's handbook II)
Hold the Line (complete warrior)
mage slayer (complete arcane)
deft opportunist (complete adventurer)
defensive sweep (player's handbook II)
improved combat reflexes (dragon magazine 340)
greater combat reflexes (dragon magazine 340)
Backstab (dragon magazine 340)
Jotunbrud (Races of Faerun)
Overhead Thrust (Draconomicon)

So it would look like...

H Jotunbrud
1 Combat Reflexes
F1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain
F2 Combat Expertise
3 Improved Trip
F4 Stand Still
6 Knock Down
F6 Weapon Finesse
F8 Power Attack
9 Hold the Line
F10 Deft Opportunist
12 Robilar's Gambit
F12 Close Quarters Fighting
F14 Curling Wave Strike
15 Defensive Sweep
F16 Mage Slayer
18 Improved Combat Reflexes
F18 Backstab
F20 Greater Combat Reflexes

There... you have a schtick, and every single feat furthers that schtick, and no feat is worthless. Yes, you ignore lots of feats with prerequisites you don't have that make that schtick MUCH BETTER, but this build makes it so that every feat makes you better at what you do (spiked chain tripping and attacks of opportunity). This build assumes some good stats, but fighters NEED great stats, and should probably be functioning at a higher point buy than casting classes anyway... the order of most of the feats can be changed...

mobdrazhar
2010-08-11, 09:02 PM
if you can take it i would suggest taking psycic warrior instead of fighter and take expansion as the first power for it as it will increase your size category to medium which will let you take full advantage of the spiked chain.

herrhauptmann
2010-08-11, 11:55 PM
Gavin, you forgot blindfight is a prereq for pierce magical concealment.
Greater/improved combat reflexes: Well the versions that aren't [epic] seem like they might be quite useful

I'd recommend taking weapon finesse sooner if you've got the dex to make combat reflexes worthwhile.
Jotunbrud for a human (players guide to faerun) is a must for trippers. It is not powerful build, it does not grant you larger weapons. What it does, is that it gives you a +4 on all opposed rolls in which being Large sized will be beneficial, if it's not beneficial, you don't need to count as large.

Vexing and adaptable flanker are useful if you can rely on allies for combat tactics.

There's a few skill tricks which relate to standing from prone in Complete Scoundrel. Take them.
I don't care how much you think you need the skill points, take them. Eventually you're going to fail a trip check, and the enemy is going to succeed on his to trip you. Now, you can elect to fall over (without dropping weapon) and stand back up without eating an AOO. Useful at lower levels when large numbers of mooks are likely, thus preventing you from taking more AOOs. Useful at high levels when quite a few enemies will have equal or greater reach, and they'll deal more damage per hit than you can.

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-12, 04:30 PM
Ah, Right... I should edit that... anyone have any ideas for "low prerequisite feats" that help this concept that weren't in my list? With the idea that each and every feat taken actually HELPS, rather than simply being a tax to get to an actual good feat?

The reason I left out Jotunbrud was that I was trying to leave out feats with weird requirements and stuff. But I'll put it in and move Weapon Finesse up. I *think* this build requires STR 13, Dex 15, Int 13? I think??

By the way, if anyone needs help finding MOST of those feats, most of them are here, I think...

http://www.realmshelps.org/datafind/feats.shtml

though you will have to mess around with the spelling of stand still and knock down and such to find them.

Oh and keep on upping your Dex. You only really need the minimum STR for the feats in question, which is either 13 or 15, I can't remember...

herrhauptmann
2010-08-12, 06:47 PM
Maybe we should shift to offering item suggestions.
Blanket statement:
Restful armor crystal (MiC), durable OR blueshine armor (Dungeonscape or MIC), everbright weapon. Sleep in armor, and now your armor and weapon can't get destroyed via rust/acid damage.
If you know you're not going to be moving much, Interlocking armor from Races of Stone (RoS) will be useful. Move only 5 feet in your turn, and armor goes up by 2.
SMoking weapon from Lords of Darkness, +1 cost, grants 20% concealment (and a stinking cloud effect if someone tries to grapple/pass through your square)
Retribution amulet (BoED version). Punish them for hurting you in melee. Retaliation armor (same sorta thing, but not as strong)

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-15, 04:06 PM
Okay, edited my build again, it looks like there are a TON of great feats in Dragon Magazine #340, you should maybe try and track that down?