PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Favorite stupid error?



Dubious Pie
2010-08-12, 03:20 PM
My favorite is that a pouch costs and weighs less with stuff in it than empty.

Private-Prinny
2010-08-12, 03:23 PM
Some of my favorites are
Heal by Drowning.
Monks aren't proficient with Unarmed Strikes
Buy a ladder, split into two 10' poles, profit.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-12, 03:59 PM
Holy Water having a negative weight.

Tinydwarfman
2010-08-12, 04:04 PM
Sandshaper PrC ability lets create small object made out of sand a minute in the past. This is because the time it requires is relative the DC to create the object, and you can get a DC of negative 5.

DM: The swarm of Kobolds charges at you.
PC: Actually, I create a wall of sand 5 minutes ago that stops their charge.
DM: Wait, what?

Keld Denar
2010-08-12, 04:06 PM
How about the fact that in just about every splatbook, there is an example character that doesn't qualify for the PrC showcased? The big offender I can think of atm is the Greenstar Adept example is a bit short on BAB to have the build he has.

AtopTheMountain
2010-08-12, 04:08 PM
How about the fact that in just about every splatbook, there is an example character that doesn't qualify for the PrC showcased? The big offender I can think of atm is the Greenstar Adept example is a bit short on BAB to have the build he has.

Complete Psionic has the sample for that storm-based PrC who is listed as CG. He's a Divine Mind serving St. Cuthbert.

FMArthur
2010-08-12, 04:10 PM
My favourite by far is crafting zero cost items with a free action. I like it because you can craft a club out of a table leg in the midst of a bar room brawl. Someone here brought it up and it's the best, most practical and reasonable rules fumble in D&D as far as I know.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-12, 04:11 PM
My new favorite is that "sleeping" in armor gives you penalties, but it is unclear whether "resting" counts as sleeping or that you suffer any penalties from failing to sleep.

Ergo, everyone should just Rest in their armor and never sleep - no more nightime ambush worries! :smalltongue:

I also found an amusing PF Stupid Trick: at-will Create Water allows you to create 2 gal. / level which vanishes 1 day after it has been created. A 1st level Cleric can flood out a dungeon with something like 144K gallons of water and then wait a day for the dungeon to dry out.

EDIT: FMArthur's example is also great :smallbiggrin:

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-08-12, 04:39 PM
Holy Water having a negative weight.

Wait, what?


My favourite by far is crafting zero cost items with a free action. I like it because you can craft a club out of a table leg in the midst of a bar room brawl. Someone here brought it up and it's the best, most practical and reasonable rules fumble in D&D as far as I know.

That's pretty awesome, not going to lie.

I'm a big fan of Sanctum Spell cheating squeezing in requirements two levels early for prestige classes and the like.

Doodleface
2010-08-12, 04:44 PM
A Vow of Poverty gives the subject a 'strong aura of good' but also makes him 'immune from any attempts to .. discern his alignment."

Lots of outsiders have similar features.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-12, 04:49 PM
Wait, what?



An empty flask weighs 1.5 pounds.
A flask of Holy Water weighs 1 pound.

Thereforce, the holy water itself must weigh -0.5 lbs.



A Vow of Poverty gives the subject a 'strong aura of good' but also makes him 'immune from any attempts to .. discern his alignment."

Lots of outsiders have similar features.

This isn't entirely useless - it does prevent people from knowing if you're Lawful or Chaotic.

Keld Denar
2010-08-12, 05:12 PM
How about the fact that the Ruby Knight Vindicator is depicted with a giant symbol of St Cuthbert, even though the class is fluffed as being elite knights of WeeJas. I don't think the Stern Lady would be too keen on her followers masquerading, especially not as clerics of HIM.

Kurald Galain
2010-08-12, 05:21 PM
Shadow Magic being 20% or 30% real to anyone who passes the saving throw, but if you cheese it out enough it can become 120% real (or more).

Elderly people getting better hearing and eyesight, because they get a wisdom bonus.

Also, as Elan puts it, there are no rules for tummy aches.

Private-Prinny
2010-08-12, 05:22 PM
How about the fact that the Ruby Knight Vindicator is depicted with a giant symbol of St Cuthbert, even though the class is fluffed as being elite knights of WeeJas. I don't think the Stern Lady would be too keen on her followers masquerading, especially not as clerics of HIM.

You mean the hilt decoration that looks kind of vaguely sort of like St. Cuthbert's symbol?

Boci
2010-08-12, 05:25 PM
Shadowsilk armour in ToM. Maximum armour bonus is +10, dex bonus is +2, speed failure chance is 15%, but 0% in shadowy darkness. Arcane check penalty of -1.

awa
2010-08-12, 06:24 PM
not technically an error just completely nonsensical their is a prestige class in frost burn that gives your punches ice damage its designed for barbarians (already not a great class) but in the fluff it mentions druid members who are particularly feared the problem being that the benefit only applies to punches not claws or bite so the class has absolutely no synergy with druid on top of not advancing any of the druids features

Aroka
2010-08-12, 06:30 PM
An empty flask weighs 1.5 pounds.
A flask of Holy Water weighs 1 pound.

Thereforce, the holy water itself must weigh -0.5 lbs.

'cause flasks come in one size only.

AslanCross
2010-08-12, 06:31 PM
Empty vials have weight. Potions weigh nothing. :D

(Though actually, the empty flasks are probably something hand-sized. The DMG clearly describes potions as really tiny containers that are about the size of pill canisters.)

Greenish
2010-08-12, 06:44 PM
You mean the hilt decoration that looks kind of vaguely sort of like St. Cuthbert's symbol?Also in the collar. : And in the belt. And he has a really funky grip of the falchion.

not technically an error just completely nonsensical their is a prestige class in frost burn that gives your punches ice damage its designed for barbarians (already not a great class) but in the fluff it mentions druid members who are particularly feared the problem being that the benefit only applies to punches not claws or bite so the class has absolutely no synergy with druid on top of not advancing any of the druids featuresYou can use Unarmed Strikes in wild shape. But yeah, most any PrCs for druids are flat out worse than continuing as a druid.

Besides, barbarians are decent enough as a base for a build, and even a straight one is one of the sturdiest and most damage-dealing of (non-magic using) beatsticks.

Claudius Maximus
2010-08-12, 06:53 PM
Don't forget that every flask of Holy Water contains five pounds of silver.

Also, the Positive Energy Plane is one of the best places in the universe for undead. They gain the HP just like everyone else, but are immune to the explodification effect.

arrowhen
2010-08-12, 06:56 PM
An empty flask weighs 1.5 pounds.
A flask of Holy Water weighs 1 pound.

Wouldn't you expect a holy flask to weigh less than one that wasn't full of holes?

My favorite is the one in Complete Divine, on page XX.

Private-Prinny
2010-08-12, 07:00 PM
Also in the collar. : And in the belt. And he has a really funky grip of the falchion.

I'm not sure we're looking at the same picture. I can't see a collar or belt.

Eurus
2010-08-12, 07:03 PM
Also, the Positive Energy Plane is one of the best places in the universe for undead. They gain the HP just like everyone else, but are immune to the explodification effect.

...What? :smalleek: I assumed there was a rule somewhere about bad things happening to undead in majorly positive-dominant planes, or something...

Greenish
2010-08-12, 07:04 PM
I'm not sure we're looking at the same picture. I can't see a collar or belt.This one: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/tob_gallery/99699.jpg[Edit]: Most interestingly, he does worship St. Cuthbert, as his statblock reveals.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-12, 07:08 PM
Wouldn't you expect a holy flask to weigh less than one that wasn't full of holes?

My favorite is the one in Complete Divine, on page XX.

*Groans loudly*

Private-Prinny
2010-08-12, 07:10 PM
This one: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/tob_gallery/99699.jpg[Edit]: Most interestingly, he does worship St. Cuthbert, as his statblock reveals.

Maybe I'm just missing it, then. Good catch on the statblock, though.

Tokiko Mima
2010-08-12, 07:19 PM
I like how the whole Burning Hate (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor_the_Burning_Hate) school of thought is based on a single caption that WotC was too lazy to change when they simultaneously made specific spells evil aligned with no apparent criteria.

Curmudgeon
2010-08-12, 07:19 PM
By far my favorite is that a standard action ranged attack provokes attacks of opportunity, but a full attack (without regard to type) doesn't provoke. So when you shoot just one arrow in some enemy's face you'll let your guard down, but when you shoot a lot of arrows in their face you're just peachy. :smallsmile:

Claudius Maximus
2010-08-12, 07:23 PM
The BoVD spell Flesh Ripper is basically impossible to cast, since it requires you to be both undead and an outsider. You can only have one type, so I don't even think some kind of templated undead fiend would count.

On the subject of BoVD spells, the section on corrupt magic states that no corrupt spell has a material component or a permanent duration. The book features several that have these things.

The ToB "errata" adds some very interesting things to the Firesnake maneuver.

Wonton
2010-08-12, 07:36 PM
Warning: This post contains no examples of stupid errors.

You know, a couple of months ago, while angry at some stupid rule of this exact nature, I considered starting a "101 stupid rules" thread, but then I thought that it wouldn't be very popular. And now I've completely forgotten the rule I was unhappy with. Damn. :smallfrown:

Khatoblepas
2010-08-12, 08:28 PM
The BoVD spell Flesh Ripper is basically impossible to cast, since it requires you to be both undead and an outsider. You can only have one type, so I don't even think some kind of templated undead fiend would count.

Actually, there is a total of ONE creature that can cast that spell. An Atropal Abomination (EPH) has both the Undead and Outsider types.

Of course, since the Atropal was updated to 3.5 and not the Flesh Ripper spell... you can only cast it if you're playing 3.0.

Talking of the Atropal, it has Regeneration and is undead. What's up with that? If it doesn't have it, it's pretty damn weak compared to the other Abominations, but if it does have it, it's nigh impossible to beat without the macguffins of good. How am I supposed to rule it? :P

TooManyBadgers
2010-08-12, 08:32 PM
Polymorph.

Kylarra
2010-08-12, 08:35 PM
ToB errata

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-08-12, 08:44 PM
The BoVD spell Flesh Ripper is basically impossible to cast, since it requires you to be both undead and an outsider. You can only have one type, so I don't even think some kind of templated undead fiend would count.

Wouldn't a 20th level undead monk be able to cast it, though, as they only count as Outsiders for spells and effects?

Lev
2010-08-12, 08:45 PM
"I went to the geomancer and he gave me a discount so it only cost me 4,700g from these diamonds."
"WHAT? We need 5000g of diamonds, go back and buy some more!"
"....."

How about 100 blank pages are worth more than a wizard's spellbook that contains 100 blank pages and a nice covering and stuff?

I really like the sandshaper one, good post.

theMycon
2010-08-12, 09:02 PM
'cause flasks come in one size only.

They're both explicitly 1 pint. However, the logic that "a pint of water, by definition, weighs 1 pound, so they must be talking about the holy water itself" does not hold; since (as pointed out above" it contains 5 pounds of silver.

For reference, 5 pounds of silver is just under a cup, or half a pint.

Greenish
2010-08-12, 09:15 PM
They're both explicitly 1 pint. However, the logic that "a pint of water, by definition, weighs 1 pound, so they must be talking about the holy water itself" does not hold; since (as pointed out above" it contains 5 pounds of silver.

For reference, 5 pounds of silver is just under a cup, or half a pint.For further reference, the silver isn't in the water, it goes *poof* when the spell to bless the water is completed, like all material components.

olentu
2010-08-12, 09:33 PM
While not necessarily my favorite the scorpion tail whip or whatever that thing was named is a good one.

Amphetryon
2010-08-12, 10:11 PM
They're both explicitly 1 pint. However, the logic that "a pint of water, by definition, weighs 1 pound, so they must be talking about the holy water itself" does not hold; since (as pointed out above" it contains 5 pounds of silver.

For reference, 5 pounds of silver is just under a cup, or half a pint.

Which is why my old group used to refer to holy water as "a damp silver brick."

Stompy
2010-08-12, 10:21 PM
Faerie Mysteries Initiate.

Dubious Pie
2010-08-13, 12:59 AM
ToB errata


Faerie Mysteries Initiate.

Explain please.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-08-13, 01:02 AM
Explain please.

The ToB errata actually contains a lot of errata... the problem is that the vast majority of it is a copy of Complete Mage errata rather than actual ToB errata.

To paraphrase FMI "After 15 minutes of stimulating exercises with your partner, you may instead use your Intelligence modifier in place of your constitution modifier to determine bonus HP."

Kylarra
2010-08-13, 01:02 AM
Read it for yourself (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata)

Mikeavelli
2010-08-13, 02:16 AM
This one: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/tob_gallery/99699.jpg[Edit]: Most interestingly, he does worship St. Cuthbert, as his statblock reveals.

WTF is up with all those belts?

olentu
2010-08-13, 02:25 AM
WTF is up with all those belts?

Probably asked hennet for fashion advice.

Wonton
2010-08-13, 02:38 AM
Probably asked hennet for fashion advice.

Or Dante. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/28-Devil-May-Cry-4) wordswordswords

Boci
2010-08-13, 06:13 AM
My favourite by far is crafting zero cost items with a free action. I like it because you can craft a club out of a table leg in the midst of a bar room brawl. Someone here brought it up and it's the best, most practical and reasonable rules fumble in D&D as far as I know.

And in the same vein,
PC: Do you have any clubs or quarterstaffs?
Shop keeper: Sure, here have them for free.
PC: Can I interest you in some fire wood?

Faleldir
2010-08-13, 06:57 AM
Thanks to Simulacrum, a spell component pouch contains a piece of every individual creature's body.

Greenish
2010-08-13, 07:27 AM
To paraphrase FMI "After 15 minutes of stimulating exercises with your partner, you may instead use your Intelligence modifier in place of your constitution modifier to determine bonus HP."Actual text: "You and a partner with the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat practice 15-minute regimen of cultural rituals that grant you special bonuses on skill checks or combat rolls."

"Passions: You and your partner engage in an exuberant sensual act. The ritual leaves both partners invigorated, allowing you to use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Constitution modifier to determine bonus hit points."

Psyx
2010-08-13, 07:33 AM
The rapier drawn with the hilt on completely back-to-front, making the weapon pretty much unusable.

Dire flails. Seriously: What the heck?!

Mercurial weapons: What moron ever thought that this was a good plan.

Gnomish hook hammers: Mind your elbows!

Project_Mayhem
2010-08-13, 07:58 AM
Thanks to Simulacrum, a spell component pouch contains a piece of every individual creature's body.

Brilliant!

KillianHawkeye
2010-08-13, 08:10 AM
The rapier drawn with the hilt on completely back-to-front, making the weapon pretty much unusable.

What book is that picture in?

Greenish
2010-08-13, 08:15 AM
The rapier drawn with the hilt on completely back-to-front, making the weapon pretty much unusable.I've wondered what's up with that. If it was just one picture, I could shrug it off as an artist having been tired/drunk/high, but I've seen it in many D&D illustrations.

Also, is this how you use kukris: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cd_gallery/81339.jpgReally?

Stompy
2010-08-13, 08:22 AM
Thanks to Simulacrum, a spell component pouch contains a piece of every individual creature's body.

Don't forget that it contains mini-tarts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideouslaughter.htm) as well. Never go hungry again!

Speaking of which, a ranger has no nature "code of conduct", and can thus eat her animal companion and renew it in 24 hours, whenever she pleases. Thus a ranger never goes hungry either (assuming you grab big animals and space out the meals).

Also, I brought up Faerie Mysteries Initiate in the same vein that a poster brought up polymorph, it is not an error per se, but what part of exuberant sensual act screams Intelligence? (To this day I still make fun of this feat, even suggesting that my next character shall be a Necropolitan Grey Elf with this feat. I call this build Zombie McLovin.)

Crasical
2010-08-13, 08:37 AM
Actual text: "You and a partner with the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat practice 15-minute regimen of cultural rituals that grant you special bonuses on skill checks or combat rolls."

"Passions: You and your partner engage in an exuberant sensual act. The ritual leaves both partners invigorated, allowing you to use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Constitution modifier to determine bonus hit points."

I remember showing that to my gaming group. There was immature snickering and discussion of what the 'Exuberant sensual act' could possibly be. I'm determined to throw a Faerie Mysteries Initiate at the party at some point but can't decide what sort of int-based character to use, outside of a wizard.

Crasical
2010-08-13, 08:41 AM
Speaking of which, a ranger has no nature "code of conduct", and can thus eat her animal companion and renew it in 24 hours, whenever she pleases. Thus a ranger never goes hungry either (assuming you grab big animals and space out the meals).

You can have a heavy horse as your animal companion, so dig in! However, you need 24 hours of uninterrupted prayer to call a new one, so bringing in horses to be slaughtered for meat is pretty much all you will be doing, depending on how you decide 'uninterrupted' goes.

Lhurgyof
2010-08-13, 08:45 AM
Some of my favorites are
Heal by Drowning.

Huh? Explain, please. xD

Psyx
2010-08-13, 08:45 AM
^good money-earner, though.

Horsemeat sausages, anyone?


"What book is that picture in?"

I can't remember. I think it's the quickblade rapier that gives a bonus to bluff for feinting. It's a colour picture, top of the page. Part of a panel. It might be second in from the left. Complete warrior, perhaps?

Chineselegolas
2010-08-13, 08:51 AM
"What book is that picture in?"

I can't remember. I think it's the quickblade rapier that gives a bonus to bluff for feinting. It's a colour picture, top of the page. Part of a panel. It might be second in from the left. Complete warrior, perhaps?
You meaning Complete Adventurer, page 117?

hamishspence
2010-08-13, 08:51 AM
Huh? Explain, please. xD

From the SRD:


Drowning

Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description.

When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

It is possible to drown in substances other than water, such as sand, quicksand, fine dust, and silos full of grain.

The key bit is:


In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp).

The Heal by Drowning bit- is when a person who is already at negative hit points, is subjected to drowning, and thus, by a literal reading, their hit points are reset to 0 regardless of what they were before.

What it doesn't say in the description, is how you stop drowning- there is nothing that says that if you're pulled out of the substance that is drowning you, that you immediately cease to be Drowning.

KillianHawkeye
2010-08-13, 09:07 AM
What it doesn't say in the description, is how you stop drowning- there is nothing that says that if you're pulled out of the substance that is drowning you, that you immediately cease to be Drowning.

It would seem that it ends when you cease attempting to hold your breath, since drowning is only only the result of failing a Con check to continue holding it. But you're right that it's not clearly and explicitly mentioned.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-13, 09:12 AM
It would seem that it ends when you cease attempting to hold your breath, since drowning is only only the result of failing a Con check to continue holding it. But you're right that it's not clearly and explicitly mentioned.
Wait... since unconscious creatures cannot take any actions (like holding their breath) does this mean they cannot drown? :smallconfused:

Amphetryon
2010-08-13, 09:12 AM
I remember showing that to my gaming group. There was immature snickering and discussion of what the 'Exuberant sensual act' could possibly be. I'm determined to throw a Faerie Mysteries Initiate at the party at some point but can't decide what sort of int-based character to use, outside of a wizard.
They need to face an INT 20+ Sun Elf Factotum with FMI and Fonts of Inspiration. They won't be snickering long.

KillianHawkeye
2010-08-13, 09:14 AM
Wait... since unconscious creatures cannot take any actions (like holding their breath) does this mean they cannot drown? :smallconfused:

Drat, you have thwarted me!! :smallmad:


:smallwink:

Crasical
2010-08-13, 09:17 AM
"What book is that picture in?"

... Holy Crap, DON'T eat them!

A heavy horse is worth 200 gold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#mountsAndRelatedGear), and you can summon one every 24 hours.

Much better than a profession check if you're looking to get money in the downtime between adventures.

Lhurgyof
2010-08-13, 09:31 AM
That is interesting... Both that you can heal from it, and it never underlines when you're done drowning, it merely says "The next round"

Stompy
2010-08-13, 09:37 AM
They need to face an INT 20+ Sun Elf Factotum with FMI and Fonts of Inspiration. They won't be snickering long.

If you thought that was bad, you should see the FMI partner! :smalleek:

Harris the Ford
2010-08-13, 09:45 AM
More of a typo than a dumb rule but in the weapon tables in the PHB it lists unarmed damage as 1D33. I kept wanting to play a monk and asked my friends who had a D33 I could use. Took them a while before they got the joke. I think there are multiple typos like that in the gear tables (bullwips do D44?) at least in my version.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-13, 09:47 AM
IIRC, one such error appears in the spell table of a full casting class.

33 spells in a level is frigging awesome.

Cyrion
2010-08-13, 10:06 AM
IIRC, one such error appears in the spell table of a full casting class.

33 spells in a level is frigging awesome.

Isn't that just a fair exchange for the fact that you don't get any spells of another (I think it was the next level lower) level? :smallwink:

Psyx
2010-08-13, 10:45 AM
... Holy Crap, DON'T eat them!


Sorry... must have been channelling my Belgian ancestors.

Popertop
2010-08-13, 10:52 AM
Those two sap weapons that deal subdual do 1d63 and 1d64.
Rogue/Paladin, keepin the peace.

Doug Lampert
2010-08-13, 11:44 AM
And in the same vein,
PC: Do you have any clubs or quarterstaffs?
Shop keeper: Sure, here have them for free.
PC: Can I interest you in some fire wood?
Good one.

Thanks to Simulacrum, a spell component pouch contains a piece of every individual creature's body.
And at level 13 your wizard can use this ritual and a piece of a level 26 wizard to create a totally loyal level 13 wizard slave for 1300 XP. You get that back with plenty of extra in one encounter.

But wait! There's MORE! Any planetar has spells as a level 17 cleric (including planetars with only 14 HD). So at level 14 we can make a Simulicum of an advanced Planetar and I have a slave with cleric casting at level 17 when I'm only level 14.

Neat.


A Vow of Poverty gives the subject a 'strong aura of good' but also makes him 'immune from any attempts to .. discern his alignment."

Lots of outsiders have similar features.


This isn't entirely useless - it does prevent people from knowing if you're Lawful or Chaotic.

How so? Detect Law and Detect Chaos spells don't detect a character's alignment, they detect an aura's alignment, and the rules for the spells give the strengths of the auras for various creatures (including characters with no source for their aura other than being a character of that alignment).

Since the VoP still gives you an aura of Good it can't simply supress all alignment auras. So apperantly they can't detect your alignment but they can still detect your auras which is the normal way to determine alignment.

I suppose if someone invented some sort of hypothetical spell that directly detected a character's alignment rather than his aura's alignment it would work on that. Without the part where he clearly does have a strong aura I'd assume that 'immune from any attempts to .. discern his alignment' meant it supresses the auras, but since it clearly doesn't there's no reason to suppose he loses the normal aura of chaos or law.

Starscream
2010-08-13, 12:28 PM
... Holy Crap, DON'T eat them!

A heavy horse is worth 200 gold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#mountsAndRelatedGear), and you can summon one every 24 hours.

Much better than a profession check if you're looking to get money in the downtime between adventures.

No, the real fun is when you're a paladin and you repeatedly hock your mount.

After selling it, you have 2 hours per level to get out of dodge before it returns to the celestial realms. You can also dismiss it as a free action when you feel you're in the clear. Then summon it again tomorrow.

Not very lawful of you, though. But I bet a Paladin of Freedom could justify it, especially if you sell it to someone evil and donate some of the proceeds to charity.

Skaven
2010-08-13, 12:31 PM
Drown healing.

Peregrine
2010-08-13, 02:30 PM
The shadow veil (Magic Item Compendium p.133).
...while in shadowy areas, you are treated as if you had concealment against creatures lacking darkvision, blindsight, or some other sensory ability that does not rely on light.

So, this 16,000gp item gives you concealment when standing in areas of shadowy illumination, right?

You know what else gives concealment when standing in areas of shadowy illumination?

Areas of shadowy illumination! :smallmad:

(For the record, it was also present in Libris Mortis, where it cost 6,000gp less, and gave a better deflection bonus to AC. So not only did they not think this "concealment when in shadows" thing was redundant, they actually decided it was better than they first thought!)

Tinydwarfman
2010-08-13, 02:35 PM
The shadow veil (Magic Item Compendium p.133).

So, this 16,000gp item gives you concealment when standing in areas of shadowy illumination, right?

You know what else gives concealment when standing in areas of shadowy illumination?

Areas of shadowy illumination! :smallmad:

(For the record, it was also present in Libris Mortis, where it cost 6,000gp less, and gave a better deflection bonus to AC. So not only did they not think this "concealment when in shadows" thing was redundant, they actually decided it was better than they first thought!)

.... Oh wow, I had a good laugh at that one. Please tell me it was errata'd later to be 50% concealment or at least something.

Popertop
2010-08-13, 03:17 PM
The entire monk class

Starbuck_II
2010-08-13, 03:20 PM
The shadow veil (Magic Item Compendium p.133).

So, this 16,000gp item gives you concealment when standing in areas of shadowy illumination, right?

You know what else gives concealment when standing in areas of shadowy illumination?

Areas of shadowy illumination! :smallmad:

(For the record, it was also present in Libris Mortis, where it cost 6,000gp less, and gave a better deflection bonus to AC. So not only did they not think this "concealment when in shadows" thing was redundant, they actually decided it was better than they first thought!)

To be fair, you get what you pay for.

Scorpian Whip does 1d43 damage I think.

NelKor
2010-08-13, 03:53 PM
Not major, but something i found a bit silly in Heroes of Horror there is a prestige class, Fiend Blooded and the Sorcerer example doesn't actually qualify for it.

akma
2010-08-13, 04:29 PM
In another post in this forum someone said that according to the rules, you have to make a DC 10 in a listen check to hear and understand what people in front of you say.

Lev
2010-08-13, 04:38 PM
To be fair, you get what you pay for.

Scorpian Whip does 1d43 damage I think.
I've seen that. Apple's Adobe Reader FTL.

Zodiac
2010-08-13, 04:41 PM
What DC was it to know that bears live in caves?

EDIT: Oh wait, I think that's 4e.

Hmmm. The sarrukh's manipulate form ability being as open ended as it its (and the rest is history).

Eldan
2010-08-13, 04:46 PM
15, I think. Or was that "bears attack with claws"?

FMArthur
2010-08-13, 04:50 PM
In another post in this forum someone said that according to the rules, you have to make a DC 10 in a listen check to hear and understand what people in front of you say.

Similarly, it is virtually impossible in D&D to see the sun.

Eldan
2010-08-13, 05:13 PM
Hell, it's impossible to see the moon. Or a mountain. Or clouds.

Peregrine
2010-08-15, 11:58 AM
In another post in this forum someone said that according to the rules, you have to make a DC 10 in a listen check to hear and understand what people in front of you say.

Well, that's actually not too bad... the average person (with 10 Wis, no ranks, and no Alertness) can just take 10 to hear and understand what's being said. People who roll their listen checks are those who periodically say, "Hmm? Sorry, wasn't listening, what did you say?"

And people with below 10 Wis? You have to speak slowly and loudly to them. :smalltongue:

Tinydwarfman
2010-08-15, 04:40 PM
Well, that's actually not too bad... the average person (with 10 Wis, no ranks, and no Alertness) can just take 10 to hear and understand what's being said. People who roll their listen checks are those who periodically say, "Hmm? Sorry, wasn't listening, what did you say?"

And people with below 10 Wis? You have to speak slowly and loudly to them. :smalltongue:

Except that's like 1/6 of people. And anyone who reaches middle age. FAR too many people.

Curmudgeon
2010-08-15, 04:59 PM
Except that's like 1/6 of people. And anyone who reaches middle age.
You've got it backward. WIS improves with age, meaning you pay better attention to the things you hear and see. All those sample humanoids in the Monster Manual with WIS 9 will, as soon as they reach middle age, stop saying "Eh? What was that again?" for those ordinary conversation Listen checks; they can just "take 10" and succeed.

Wonton
2010-08-15, 05:35 PM
The shadow veil (Magic Item Compendium p.133).

So, this 16,000gp item gives you concealment when standing in areas of shadowy illumination, right?

You know what else gives concealment when standing in areas of shadowy illumination?

Areas of shadowy illumination! :smallmad:

(For the record, it was also present in Libris Mortis, where it cost 6,000gp less, and gave a better deflection bonus to AC. So not only did they not think this "concealment when in shadows" thing was redundant, they actually decided it was better than they first thought!)

This is great, I'm gonna suggest this item as being awesomely powerful to the party Rogue and see if he notices. :smallbiggrin:

Siosilvar
2010-08-15, 05:52 PM
IIRC, one such error appears in the spell table of a full casting class.

33 spells in a level is frigging awesome.

Complete Adventurer's Vigilante.

As printed:
{table=head]Level|1st|2nd|3rd|4th
1st|0|-|-|-
2nd|1|-|-|-
3rd|2|0|-|-
4th|3|1|-|-
5th|3|2|0-
6th|3|3|1-
7th|3|3|20
8th|3|3|31
9th|3|3|32
10th|3|3|33[/table]

Eldan
2010-08-15, 06:00 PM
Hmm... I bet something interesting could be done with this.

FMArthur
2010-08-15, 06:08 PM
And its 3rd-level spells are mostly better than its 4th-level ones anyway. :smalltongue:

It can still cast its 4th-level spells with Versatile Spellcaster and still wind up with far more slots (duh) than it was intended to have. Maybe this printing error would make me interested in playing this class... but I doubt it. :smallamused:

lesser_minion
2010-08-15, 06:19 PM
To get some classics out of the way:

Commoner Package Relay Service.
Using a Tower Shield to spawn a hide check.


I'd include Anticipate Teleport, because of the whole "it takes 20 seconds to teleport if they knew you were coming, but no time at all otherwise" and the rather bizarre effect it has on Dimension Doors, but it's not really that bad.

By the way, Spot is not a stupid mistake -- if you have line of sight to something, you don't need a spot check to see it unless it's actively hiding or a special case (which is what the encounter distance rules are).

And the vigilante is a typesetting error, which is excusable, not stupid. I'm pretty sure a consensus was reached that it was so blatant that it didn't constitute RAW as well (note that the W stands for 'Written', not 'Printed').

Ilmryn
2010-08-15, 06:32 PM
The sample character for the Master of Nine PrC in ToB doesen't qualify for it until he already has levels in it!

Volos
2010-08-15, 06:34 PM
Not so much of an error by the book as by everyone who thinks they know the rules.

You cannot auto-fail or auto-succeed a skill check. This is limited to combat and attack rolls. Unless the DM is using the critical success/failure alternate rule from the DMG. I've had so many DMs use the alt rule without stating it and then get confused when I claim a succeed on unlocking a chest (DC 25) when I have +30 to the check and I roll a nat 1.

lesser_minion
2010-08-15, 06:50 PM
The rules only require type-checking when you gain a template. If your type changes later, you don't lose the template. As a result, acquiring a template that can't be applied to your creature type is a simple matter of:

Polymorph into something that qualifies Acquire the template. ??? Profit!

Boci
2010-08-15, 06:54 PM
And the vigilante is a typesetting error, which is excusable, not stupid. I'm pretty sure a consensus was reached that it was so blatant that it didn't constitute RAW as well (note that the W stands for 'Written', not 'Printed').

I agree its clearly a typo, but I think that its magnitude arguably qualifies it as stupid. Typos are always going to be present and that must be accepted, but one as aserious as that is note worthy.

Amphetryon
2010-08-15, 06:56 PM
I agree its clearly a typo, but I think that its magnitude arguably qualifies it as stupid. Typos are always going to be present and that must be accepted, but one as aserious as that is note worthy. I hope that was deliberate, because I lol'd. :smallsmile:

lesser_minion
2010-08-15, 07:03 PM
I agree its clearly a typo, but I think that its magnitude arguably qualifies it as stupid. Typos are always going to be present and that must be accepted, but one as aserious as that is note worthy.

My understanding is that it wasn't even WotC's fault (hence the rant about rules as written vs. rules as printed).

Oh, and another classic is the omission that makes it impossible to die of starvation or thirst.


I hope that was deliberate, because I lol'd. :smallsmile:

Muphry's Law strikes again.

Boci
2010-08-15, 07:11 PM
My understanding is that it wasn't even WotC's fault (hence the rant about rules as written vs. rules as printed).

I'm confused. It's their book and it has a pretty obvious typo in it that proof readers should have noticed. How is that not WotC's fault?


I hope that was deliberate, because I lol'd. :smallsmile:

Nope, just a dyslexic person typing at 1.30 in the morning.

lesser_minion
2010-08-15, 07:12 PM
I'm confused. It's their book and it has a pretty obvious typo in it that proof readers should have noticed. How is that not WotC's fault?

Ignoring WotC's QA squad's willingness to sign off on anything even if it's worse than being spayed or neutered without anaesthetic, they probably outsource their printing. I'm assuming it was a screwup at the contractor, not in the manuscript.

Scorpions__
2010-08-15, 07:15 PM
My understanding is that it wasn't even WotC's fault (hence the rant about rules as written vs. rules as printed).

Oh, and another classic is the omission that makes it impossible to die of starvation or thirst.



Muphry's Law strikes again.

I hope that was intentional...






DM[F]R

Boci
2010-08-15, 07:15 PM
Ignoring whoever signed off on it, WotC probably outsources their printing. I'm assuming it was a screwup there, not in the manuscript the contractor was sent.

Probably, but WotC is still ultimatly responsible for the quality of their products, no matter how much of the work they out source. Not a seriously typo, since the intent is clear, but a pretty stupid one all the same.

lesser_minion
2010-08-15, 07:16 PM
I hope that was intentional...

That wasn't actually a misspelling. Muphry's Law states that there will be some form of error with anything you write criticising someone for spag errors or typos.

aivanther
2010-08-15, 10:49 PM
Not major, but something i found a bit silly in Heroes of Horror there is a prestige class, Fiend Blooded and the Sorcerer example doesn't actually qualify for it.

To be honest, with the prereqs written, who would take fiend blooded? Its meant for sorcerers it seems, but takes 8 CROSS CLASS skillranks...

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-15, 10:53 PM
To be honest, with the prereqs written, who would take fiend blooded? Its meant for sorcerers it seems, but takes 8 CROSS CLASS skillranks...

It is a nice way to expand a Duskblades spell list, a two level dip only looses you one point of BAB and depending onwhen you take it you can get stuffs that is nasty when channeled, bestow curse is the first that spring to mind

NowhereMan583
2010-08-15, 10:55 PM
Commoner Package Relay Service.

I actually haven't heard of this one. How does it work?

drengnikrafe
2010-08-15, 10:57 PM
I actually haven't heard of this one. How does it work?

Several hundred/thousand/million/billion commoners stand in a row, and all ready an action to take a package from the commoner on the left and hand it to the commoner on the right. Your package arrives anywhere in the world in 6 seconds or you get your money back.

My favorite stupid error is probably the design of the Samurai.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-15, 10:58 PM
I actually haven't heard of this one. How does it work?

My guess the same as the commoner railgun, line up a few hundred* commoners, each one drops the object as a free action in the hands of the other commoner which has a ready action to do the same.

lesser_minion
2010-08-16, 04:50 AM
Yes, it's just the practical version of the Commoner Railgun. In the actual Commoner Railgun, the item deals damage as a normal thrown object -- you basically treat it as if it had teleported from one end of the line to the other.

DeltaEmil
2010-08-16, 05:01 AM
In 3.x, you can't ever recognize for example a bear unless you succedd on a knowledge check (DC 10 + hit dice), and don't know that bears live in a cave and use claws either. :smallamused:
That's especially most hillarious with player characters at higher level, who might not even know their own race and name because of that.

Psyx
2010-08-16, 07:22 AM
Several hundred/thousand/million/billion commoners stand in a row, and all ready an action to take a package from the commoner on the left and hand it to the commoner on the right. Your package arrives anywhere in the world in 6 seconds or you get your money back.

My favorite stupid error is probably the design of the Samurai.

...And of course a 3.0 Master Samurai could - given that they don't roll enough '1's on to hits rolls - arrive just after the package...

Quietus
2010-08-16, 08:45 AM
...And of course a 3.0 Master Samurai could - given that they don't roll enough '1's on to hits rolls - arrive just after the package...

Better, is that anyone with enough ranks in Ride could just set up a bunch of horses every other five feet, and deliver it all themselves, taking even LESS time - rather than the cumulative one standard action used across the line as a ready, they can fast mount/dismount as a free action.

AtopTheMountain
2010-08-16, 11:12 AM
In the Equipment section of the PHB, it claims that "all classes except the Druid, Monk, Rogue, and Wizard are proficient with all simple weapons." A quick look back at the Classes section: "Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons..."

OracleofWuffing
2010-08-16, 12:32 PM
Guess how many caltrops are in a 2-pound bag of caltrops.:smallwink:

lesser_minion
2010-08-16, 12:37 PM
Guess how many caltrops are in a 2-pound bag of caltrops.:smallwink:

Enough for a single 5 foot square... what's the problem here?

OracleofWuffing
2010-08-16, 12:42 PM
The fact that two one-pound caltrops are just as effective at filling a five-foot square as twenty tenth-of-a-pound caltrops.

lesser_minion
2010-08-16, 12:48 PM
The fact that two one-pound caltrops are just as effective at filling a five-foot square as twenty tenth-of-a-pound caltrops.

That's just a 'not stated' thing, I think, not a particularly retarded issue.

Given that the DM's advised not to let caltrops work on huge creatures, they probably aren't one pound.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-16, 12:59 PM
The fact that two one-pound caltrops are just as effective at filling a five-foot square as twenty tenth-of-a-pound caltrops.
Does it say caltrops are 1 lb apiece somewhere? I thought it did, but I couldn't find it on the SRD.

OracleofWuffing
2010-08-16, 01:02 PM
That's just a 'not stated' thing, I think, not a particularly retarded issue.
Doesn't change the fact it's still my favorite stupid error. :smallbiggrin:


Does it say caltrops are 1 lb apiece somewhere? I thought it did, but I couldn't find it on the SRD.
No, it doesn't give a weight for caltrops, period. It says a two-pound bag of them will fill a five foot square, though.

Another one is that Warlocks don't lose anything for changing their alignment, so their alignment restriction is irrelevant. Just be sure to punt a puppy or something just before you level-up, then give a copper to a beggar five seconds afterwards.

Kurald Galain
2010-08-16, 01:13 PM
No, it doesn't give a weight for caltrops, period. It says a two-pound bag of them will fill a five foot square, though.
They're made of aluminium. :smallbiggrin:

lesser_minion
2010-08-16, 01:20 PM
An iron caltrop with 3cm spikes seems to add up to about 0.2 ounces as far as I can tell. That gives you just under four spikes per square foot.

* Edit from the future... one ounce per caltrop, one caltrop per square foot. Apparently I decided to be ironic without realising it...

Curmudgeon
2010-08-16, 04:55 PM
An iron caltrop with 3cm spikes seems to add up to about 0.2 ounces as far as I can tell. That gives you just under four spikes per square foot.
I don't know where you're getting that weight information, but it's much too low. This isn't steel you're talking about, but soft iron. Anything that flimsy would just be mangled under a boot sole. Wrought iron nails, used in replacing flooring in historic homes, are notorious for bending if hammered even a bit off-axis ─ and that's typically driving through soft pine floorboards.

A caltrop's "up" spike is going to be perpendicular to the ground, but boot impact is going to be at a diagonal in the direction of movement. So functional caltrops need to be sturdy enough to penetrate when stepped on as much as 45 degrees off from vertical. That necessitates much more massive construction ─ more than double the thickness, meaning more than 8x the weight.

What we're left with is the conclusion that a quite small number (maybe about 7) of caltrops per 5' square is enough, statistically, to have the listed effect of a BAB +0 attack. That's the D&D world for you. :smallconfused:

lesser_minion
2010-08-16, 05:16 PM
I don't know where you're getting that weight information, but it's much too low.

Density of iron is about 7900 kg.m-3

Volume of a cone, 30 mm in length and 5mm in radius at the base is 785.4mm3

There are 1,000,000,000 mm3 in 1 m3, so the density comes out as 7.9 e -6 kg.mm-3 for a mass of 6.20 grams, which is just under a quarter of an ounce.

Four of them make about one ounce, so my original figure was wrong (ironically enough).

Even so, that's 32 to a bag, or at least one every square foot.

As for the construction, while I did fudge things, I assumed something a lot heavier than four nails welded together. I already know that nails aren't guaranteed to bore a hole straight through a foot.

Curmudgeon
2010-08-16, 05:54 PM
Volume of a cone, 30 mm in length and 5mm in radius at the base
Nails aren't, and never have been, conical. Modern steel nails are cylinders with a cone tip. Iron nails are shaped like an obelisk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelisk) (which word is appropriately derived from the Greek for "nail"). Soft iron has modulus of elasticity and yield strength both about 1/3 that of steel: it's 3x easier to deform.

I'm afraid your geometry and dimensions are just whacked.

lesser_minion
2010-08-16, 05:59 PM
Nails aren't, and never have been, conical. Modern steel nails are cylinders with a cone tip. Iron nails are shaped like an obelisk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelisk) (which word is appropriately derived from the Greek for "nail"). Soft iron has modulus of elasticity and yield strength both about 1/3 that of steel: it's 3x easier to deform.

I'm afraid your geometry and dimensions are just whacked.

I'm assuming a cone. The actual shape probably varies depending on who made the things, but no, a caltrop is generally not four nails duck-taped together. Both the PHB and Wikipedia seem to support the idea of pyramidal spikes, not nails, at least for the caltrops used in D&D. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop)

Cones might be a stretch, but they are not as unreasonable as you make them out to be.

awa
2010-08-16, 06:53 PM
i don't honestly feel the commoner rail gun is a big error it only comes up when your already trying to mess with the system something like the monk not being proficient with his fists or example characters who cant qualify for their prestige class are errors.

lesser_minion
2010-08-16, 06:56 PM
i don't honestly feel the commoner rail gun is a big error it only comes up when your already trying to mess with the system something like the monk not being proficient with his fists or example characters who cant qualify for their prestige class are errors.

That is kind-of true, but it always gets brought up on this kind of thread.

Another popular one is the PrCs that impose multiclassing penalties (they shouldn't, but the rule was omitted from the 3.5 DMG).

Peregrine
2010-08-17, 10:43 AM
In 3.x, you can't ever recognize for example a bear unless you succedd on a knowledge check (DC 10 + hit dice), and don't know that bears live in a cave and use claws either. :smallamused:
That's especially most hillarious with player characters at higher level, who might not even know their own race and name because of that.

I think you're confusing 3e and 4e here. In 3e, the rule is that Knowledge DC 10+HD tells you "a bit of useful information" about the monster's "special powers or vulnerabilities". And that's explicitly a "general" rule, meaning, IMO, "make exceptions for common sense (like recognising a dragon)". It's a tad silly and overly simple, but not too bad.

4e, on the other hand, tries to overcome the overly simple and generic 3e rules by setting specific "Lore" DCs for each creature using the relevant knowledge skills (Nature, Religion, etc.) -- and in doing so, it makes the situation worse. That's the edition that requires a DC 15 check to know that bears live in the forest, and DC 20 to know that dire bears attack with their claws.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-17, 10:58 AM
I think you're confusing 3e and 4e here. In 3e, the rule is that Knowledge DC 10+HD tells you "a bit of useful information" about the monster's "special powers or vulnerabilities". And that's explicitly a "general" rule, meaning, IMO, "make exceptions for common sense (like recognising a dragon)". It's a tad silly and overly simple, but not too bad.

4e, on the other hand, tries to overcome the overly simple and generic 3e rules by setting specific "Lore" DCs for each creature using the relevant knowledge skills (Nature, Religion, etc.) -- and in doing so, it makes the situation worse. That's the edition that requires a DC 15 check to know that bears live in the forest, and DC 20 to know that dire bears attack with their claws.
For full reference:


In many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s HD. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster.

For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information.
Since "identify monsters" is explictly listed in this description, it's safe to say that the names of bears is on this continuim.

Of course, recall that you only get one piece of information per 5 points. So it could be impossible for a commoner to both identify a bear and know that it lives in the woods at the same time :smallamused:

4E, at least, has a +1/2LV modifier. So no, a 1st Level Peasant might have a hard time identifying animals (DC 10 or 15, I don't recall) but at least they have a chance. Even with an WIS 10, a 4th level NPC (say, a town guard or a lackey) has a +2 to his checks (and a +7 if he's trained in Nature). By comparison, our 3.5 Commoner who has all Knowledge Skills as cross-class is going to need a DC 13 to identify a horse (and a DC 16 for a brown bear!) even if he becomes a 20th level Commoner. Knowing more than two additional facts about these animals is impossible for our dear 20th Level Commoner :smallfrown:

...and this is why it is a Stupid Error in 3.5 which is ameliorated in 4.

Peregrine
2010-08-17, 11:06 AM
Since "identify monsters" is explictly listed in this description, it's safe to say that the names of bears is on this continuim.

You're right about "identify" being in there, but I would contend that living in the forest and attacking with claws are neither special powers nor vulnerabilities of bears; I'd say it's all part and parcel of knowing what a bear is (identifying it).

And again, there's that "in general" exception, which while being frustratingly open-ended, is more or less an acknowledgement that applying the rule too literally will cause some silly cases. 4e, on the other hand, explicitly spells out that yes, it takes Nature DC 20 to know that dire bears attack with their claws.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-17, 11:15 AM
Edition Warz Digression

You're right about "identify" being in there, but I would contend that living in the forest and attacking with claws are neither special powers nor vulnerabilities of bears; I'd say it's all part and parcel of knowing what a bear is (identifying it).

And again, there's that "in general" exception, which while being frustratingly open-ended, is more or less an acknowledgement that applying the rule too literally will cause some silly cases. 4e, on the other hand, explicitly spells out that yes, it takes Nature DC 20 to know that dire bears attack with their claws.
It still remains that 3.5 had the silly rule of parceling out "one piece of useful information" per +5 DC, which lead to most people never knowing anything about even common animals - farmers not knowing much about cows, for example.

In 4E, a DC 20 check doesn't just say "dire bears attack with claws" it says "these are all the ways dire bears can attack; also you know their name, keywords, and assorted bits of useful Lore." This parcels out information in more useful (and, IMHO, reasonable) chunks. Plus, the Heroic/Paragon/Epic tiering of Knowledge Skills means that "low powered" exotic creatures are not more familiar to peasants than cows. Consider that a 3.5 Commoner must pass a DC 16 INT check to "identify" a Brown Bear, but only a DC 13 to "identify" an Air Mephit.

Gametime
2010-08-17, 11:37 AM
And again, there's that "in general" exception, which while being frustratingly open-ended, is more or less an acknowledgement that applying the rule too literally will cause some silly cases. 4e, on the other hand, explicitly spells out that yes, it takes Nature DC 20 to know that dire bears attack with their claws.

Knowing that a bear uses its claws to attack instead of, say, its mouth is actually a pretty relevant piece of information for fighting it, and wouldn't have been extremely common knowledge in the vaguely medieval setting that D&D usually aims for. It's hard to remember, knowing all we know now, that once upon a time predator animals were extremely dangerous and actually pretty mysterious; encountering a bear was reasonably likely to be fatal, and knowledge of these deadly creatures wasn't as ubiquitous as you assume.

Which isn't to say that requiring that specific DC to know bears fight with claws is entirely accurate, simply that it isn't as absurd as you seem to claim.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-17, 11:59 AM
encountering a bear was reasonably likely to be fatal, and knowledge of these deadly creatures wasn't as ubiquitous as you assume.

Er...bears don't primarily eat humans. We have occasional spats with them, yes, but them attacking and killing us is definitely the exception, not the rule.

And RL bears do attack with both claws and mouth, and this was reasonably well known. It could also be easily inferred from "has bigass sharp claws". So yeah, it's pretty absurd.

The fact that they lived in forests was also pretty well known.

hamishspence
2010-08-17, 12:02 PM
The term "bear hug" is a misnomer- bears don't squeeze people, they simply hold them with their claws so they can sink fangs into them.

Yet in older editions, D&D bears hugged people, doing much of the damage from the hug.

Sometimes game designers are inaccurate. Maybe less knowledgeable people in the game world could be similarly misinformed about bears- not knowing that they claw and bite people, and believing that they hug people.

SurlySeraph
2010-08-17, 01:03 PM
Another one is that Warlocks don't lose anything for changing their alignment, so their alignment restriction is irrelevant. Just be sure to punt a puppy or something just before you level-up, then give a copper to a beggar five seconds afterwards.

Same with Dread Necromancer. A Dread Necromancer/ Sacred Exorcist could have both turn *and* rebuke Undead, not that there's much point to that.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-17, 01:35 PM
Same with Dread Necromancer. A Dread Necromancer/ Sacred Exorcist could have both turn *and* rebuke Undead, not that there's much point to that.

Two pools for DMM*? good if you are a DMM Persist Cleric jusr dipping DN to get more turn attempts or you either house ruled DMM to also aply to arcane spells (or play without errata)

*Assuming there is no clause in Sacred Exorcistfor the turns attemptsto stack with previous turn/rebuke abilities.

Also didn't Sacred Exorcist needed to be Lawful Good or lawful neutral? (Or am I thinking on other class?)

hamishspence
2010-08-17, 01:42 PM
Sacred Exorcists are "Any Good"- so can't be combined with Dread Necromancer.

Same with Exorcists of the Silver Flame (Eberron Campaign Guide)

Church Inquisitors are LG or LN (an LN Church Inquisitor could also be an LN Dread Necromancer) but they have no particular turning abilities.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-17, 01:49 PM
Sacred Exorcists are "Any Good"- so can't be combined with Dread Necromancer.

Same with Exorcists of the Silver Flame (Eberron Campaign Guide)

Church Inquisitors are LG or LN (an LN Church Inquisitor could also be an LN Dread Necromancer) but they have no particular turning abilities.

That the class I was thinking of.

SurlySeraph
2010-08-17, 03:50 PM
Two pools for DMM*? good if you are a DMM Persist Cleric jusr dipping DN to get more turn attempts or you either house ruled DMM to also aply to arcane spells (or play without errata)

*Assuming there is no clause in Sacred Exorcistfor the turns attemptsto stack with previous turn/rebuke abilities.

Also didn't Sacred Exorcist needed to be Lawful Good or lawful neutral? (Or am I thinking on other class?)

The problem being that you'd need to make your Dread Necro spells count as divine to use DMM. There are few ways to do that, and fewer that any sane DM would allow.

@V: See my "any sane DM" clause.

Greenish
2010-08-17, 03:55 PM
The problem being that you'd need to make your Dread Necro spells count as divine to use DMM. There are few ways to do that, and fewer that any sane DM would allow.Southern Magician, I seem to recall, does the trick.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-17, 05:28 PM
Two pools for DMM*? good if you are a DMM Persist Cleric jusr dipping DN to get more turn attempts or you either house ruled DMM to also aply to arcane spells (or play without errata)

*Assuming there is no clause in Sacred Exorcistfor the turns attemptsto stack with previous turn/rebuke abilities.

Also didn't Sacred Exorcist needed to be Lawful Good or lawful neutral? (Or am I thinking on other class?)

Bolded the important part

Dark Herald
2010-08-17, 07:04 PM
I actually own a copy of Complete Adventurer that starts, runs for 15 pages, and then starts over again with the title page. The rest of the book is normal, just the first 15 pages are duplicated.

Needless to say, this is my favorite stupid error by far, eliciting responses even from non gamers.

FMArthur
2010-08-17, 07:05 PM
Does it end 15 pages early? :smalleek:

Dark Herald
2010-08-17, 07:08 PM
No, It ends at the epic section as normal. It's like 15 free bonus pages.

Ghastly
2010-08-25, 03:32 PM
Not really an error, but I found it hilarious. Forgotten Realms has Helm, god of guardians and protection, and Helm Dwarf-Friend, ruler of the city of Sundabar. Ordinarily, not all that bad, but in Thomas M. Reid's Emprean Odyssey series, both played prominant, though unrelated roles. Was a little confusing, at times.

Greenish
2010-08-25, 04:40 PM
Valenar elves get martial weapon proficiency to Valenar Double Scimitar as a racial bonus feat. They don't have weapon familiarity to treat it as a martial weapon, so I don't know how that works out.

The very same page also has a weapon style feat for Valenar Double Scimitar, which requires EWP: Valenar Double Scimitar.

gorfnab
2010-08-26, 02:21 AM
A miner, as in a 1st level commoner, can't mine unless they have adamantine tools or an obscene strength because of the hardness of stone.

In a fight between a 1st level commoner and a house cat the winner is the one gets the better initiative.

Jallorn
2010-08-26, 02:40 AM
How about the one uber-monster that should have like +10 LA, but instead has +1?

Black Ethergaunt, that's the one.


Sacred Exorcists are "Any Good"- so can't be combined with Dread Necromancer.

Same with Exorcists of the Silver Flame (Eberron Campaign Guide)

Church Inquisitors are LG or LN (an LN Church Inquisitor could also be an LN Dread Necromancer) but they have no particular turning abilities.

Actually, Dread Necromancers just have to be "Any Non-Good" to take the class initially, they have no rules for losing their abilities if they become good. So by RAW, Dread Necro can be any alignment after level 1.

Adumbration
2010-08-26, 02:50 AM
I like the swordsage skill fumble a lot, myself.

lesser_minion
2010-08-26, 04:20 AM
I like the swordsage skill fumble a lot, myself.

That's the +50% to skill points at first level, correct?

Esser-Z
2010-08-26, 06:54 AM
Yeah, x6 instead of x4.

The best, though, is the Tome of Battle errata. It's a damn good thing my group includes a couple people familiar enough with the rules to work out our own!

lesser_minion
2010-08-26, 07:04 AM
The best, though, is the Tome of Battle errata. It's a damn good thing my group includes a couple people familiar enough with the rules to work out our own!

Isn't that technically a 'monumental screw-up' as opposed to a 'stupid error'?

Esser-Z
2010-08-26, 07:06 AM
Well, yes. But it's a stupid monumental screw up!