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View Full Version : One round casting time - a big deal?



Kantolin
2010-08-13, 08:22 PM
I recently played an astral constructing psion, and noted it has a one round casting time and that I can't really shorten this any way I could figure out.

Upon which I did it anyway, and discovered that it hardly ever mattered. I was only hit /once/ amidst casting, and that was by an invisible bad guy who was standing behind me with a readied action to stab me if I cast anything (so it would've happened regardless).

Conversely, however, in my group nobody will even consider doing a one round casting time action unless they absolutely have to. When notified that metamagicing her spells would make them take a full round action, the most recent spellcasters(Who were spontaneous) summarily refused to take metamagics at all, or summon monsters on the vein of 'Don't do that, it'll take a full round action'.

So I'm curious: In normal play, have you had 'one round casting time' spells be horrible things? Do you have people that refuse to take spells or metamagics (as a spontaneous caster) because of this?

Boci
2010-08-13, 08:27 PM
I'm pretty sure one round casting time spells take effect at the beginning of your next turn. You're describing full round casting spells.

Saph
2010-08-13, 08:41 PM
A casting time of a full-round action means that you effectively give up your move action. This is what sorcerers and other spontaneous casters do when they use metamagic, and it's not all that big a deal if you're careful with your positioning.

A casting time of one round, however, is something quite different. This means that you start on initiative count 16 (or whatever) of this round, and finish at the start of your next turn on initiative count 16 of next round. This means the enemies have a full round to get out of range, spread out, or just gank the caster who's standing still, chanting, and generally holding up a sign saying "I'm casting a powerful spell! You should hit me really hard to disrupt it!"

I'm happy to use full-round-action spells, but I've got a very strong dislike for one-round spells if I can possibly avoid it.

Wonton
2010-08-14, 12:41 AM
However, if there ARE 1-round casting-time spells you really have to cast, there's the Rapid Spell metamagic feat (+1), which reduces it to a Standard action. Also, a neat trinket is the Chronocharm of the Uncaring Archmage, which allows you to do the same 1/day to a 3rd level or lower spell for 500 gp.

icefractal
2010-08-14, 04:38 AM
1-round is indeed pretty harsh. While the specialist Conjurer features that reduce it aren't available for Psionics, there is one way to (sort of) speed up Astral Construct: Link Power. It still goes off next round, but at least you're doing something in the mean time, and you're spending a standard action (or less) on the round you manifest it.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-08-14, 04:43 AM
Personal Construct (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) ACF, makes it a swift action for the low, low cost of your psionic focus. You have to augment it by the same amount and give it the same menu abilities every time, but each time you level up just pick what you'll be using the most and you'll be fine. You can just put its stats on a note card for quick reference, so the drawback is actually a bookkeeping dream. Again, it lets you quicken it for free, for the cost of your Psion 5 bonus feat.

Darrin
2010-08-14, 05:56 AM
It's a little pricey and only works for summons, but when you need a little leg up in the action economy:

Golden Desert Honey, Complete Mage p. 136. When used with a summon spell, reduces casting time from one round to one standard action. 300 GP.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-14, 07:10 AM
It's vastly easier for enemies who want to interrupt you to do so, because they need not ready an action to interrupt, but can do so on their usual turn. And frankly, seeing a caster doing a long spell is a great reason to try to break that up. In-combat summoning IS usually a terrible idea unless you have a way to mitigate the casting time.

Even one round casting is painful. Move actions are handy. Don't need them all the time, sure, but sometimes you do. I don't bother with metamagic on spont casters either unless this is either house ruled or otherwise mitigated. After all, the goal of metamagicing something isn't to make it worse.

Kantolin
2010-08-14, 03:32 PM
*Blinks*

*Re-reads the 'spontaneous metamagic' section*

Good lord, we've been additionally nerfing spontaneous casters by making their metamagics into one-round spells and not full-round spells. Things you learn!

Anyway though - well, I know you can be interrupted notably more easily when one-round casting. What I mean is that, generally speaking, that wasn't a problem for me. Usually because I was /waaay over there/, and the frontliners were occupying the enemies up front. Once in awhile there'd be an enemy vaguely near me, in which I wouldn't do it, and once in long while I'd end up surprised as an enemy did something like 5ft step away from the frontliner and peg me with a javelin, but I really only remember extremely niche situations where the 'one-round casting time' was a real detriment to me.

So I suppose what I mean is, while I know it /can/ happen, how often does it actually happen?

Saph's and Icefractal's responses are more what I'm looking for, though - they both avoid using 1-rounds. Tyndmyr's response brings up another point, though - our group is extremely low-optimization, so that may alter things a bit in favor of the 'it's okay to spend some time'.

But this is still more curiosity in general - do you avoid it? Have you been in situations where you've been interrupted - once in awhile, or commonly?

Edit: Oh also, thank you for that link! I always forget about the mind's eye helping out - that would've helped that shaper out. In this case, however, it didn't actually make a terribly big difference as he wasn't interrupted, but it's nice to know that there's a little help out there. I noted while making him that wizards have a small plethora of solutions for one-round summons, but psions do not.

FMArthur
2010-08-14, 04:08 PM
It depends on your group. I've had it be a disaster or a cakewalk with different folks. Some parties will protect and cover a casting ally as if he was disabled; some will just mind their own business. Some DMs ensure intelligent enemies take note and focus fire if they see a target so obvious, some have enemies always attack the closest player, and a few, alarmingly, have their NPCs treat such targets as non-threats and pass them by.

jiriku
2010-08-14, 05:01 PM
A druid player in my campaign is fond of summoning and other spells that take one full round. He typically waits until another PC is generating considerable threat, and goes out of his way to either hide from view or buff his defenses. Getting attacked is rarely a problem for him, although occasionally he runs into a problem because a spell that was useful when he started casting it last round isn't the best response to the situation as he's finishing it this round. Still, he has enough spell slots that a sub-optimal spell or two isn't going to sink him, and a belt of battle he can use to throw an extra spell once a day if he's really in a tight spot.

Greenish
2010-08-14, 05:04 PM
A druid player in my campaign is fond of summoning and other spells that take one full round. He typically waits until another PC is generating considerable threat, and goes out of his way to either hide from view or buff his defenses.Doesn't that waste a lot of time? Waiting and hiding and casting one-round spells… one would think the fight is often over before he has a change to contribute.

jiriku
2010-08-14, 05:17 PM
No, not really. He's probably the most effective player on the team, in fact, even though the others are all really solid.

balistafreak
2010-08-14, 07:50 PM
Doesn't that waste a lot of time? Waiting and hiding and casting one-round spells… one would think the fight is often over before he has a change to contribute.

He's a Druid. He has an Animal Companion. Yes, it's not that efficient, but since he's already got two sets of actions, it's not overly crippling for either his fun or the party to spend one of them in a less-than-efficient way.

Stupid OP Druids. :smalltongue:

Saph
2010-08-14, 07:55 PM
So I suppose what I mean is, while I know it /can/ happen, how often does it actually happen?

Saph's and Icefractal's responses are more what I'm looking for, though - they both avoid using 1-rounds. Tyndmyr's response brings up another point, though - our group is extremely low-optimization, so that may alter things a bit in favor of the 'it's okay to spend some time'.

But this is still more curiosity in general - do you avoid it? Have you been in situations where you've been interrupted - once in awhile, or commonly?

It doesn't happen that often, true. I think back when I played my summoner druid, I'd only get interrupted once out of every 4 or 5 summons. Problem was, the times I was interrupted were usually the really bad ones - now I've taken HP damage, wasted a spell and an action, and there's a monster trying to eat my face.

So I avoid 1-round casting times whenever possible because I know how inviting a target it makes you. Dumber enemies won't take advantage of it, but smart ones will.