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View Full Version : The final BBEG! Blackguard gish!



true_shinken
2010-08-14, 04:04 PM
As some of you might already know, the campaign I DM is about to come to a close, after 2 years of gaming.
I want it to end with a really big battle between armies as background and the final battle between the party and the big bad evil guy, the brother of the group's paladin. I expect quite a climatic battle.

So, I had this character built like an aasimar Battle Sorcerer/Blackguard/Abjurant Champion... but I don't think he'd be a challenge to the group as is. I don't exactly know yet which characters will be fighting him aside from the paladin (an aasimar Swordsage/Paladin/Shiba Protector, actually), but I expect them to try to pull anti-magic and silence on him, so I need high HP and base attack. Basically, he needs to be a build with an actual good chassis, not only buff. He has a sword called Balmung, which has the same abilities as the Sword of Kas. I don't have the rest of his gear set up yet, but since he is the king of a country, I'm not really worried about wealth limitations on his gear.

So, I need a good ECL 20 gish build that includes Blackguard and functions well even without buffs. Thoughts on this?

DanReiv
2010-08-14, 04:34 PM
Blackguard synergize well with hexblade, UA evil Paladin, and anything with evasion.

Giving you full BAB, very high saves, meetle and evasion. Better yet, you don't even need that much class level.

Hexblade 4/Paladin of tyranny 2/BG 2 with a ring of evasion is pretty solid. Toss in a CHA based caster, Abujrant champion, and an obscene amount of wealth and you're all set.

Maerok
2010-08-14, 04:50 PM
Enough Duskblade (use a Cha-casting variant) to get Arcane Channeling might be good. If you're the DM, you could fudge classes/feats to give him that ability anyway. I usually combine Arcane Strike feat, Arcane Channeling, Swift Casting, and a spell-storing blade for some nasty hits.

TooManyBadgers
2010-08-14, 04:57 PM
Does Gish mean Arcane?

Because Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/Ur-Priest 9 is about as Blackguard-y as you can get and has 9th level spells without a needlessly complex build or anything.

[I'm assuming this needs to be a legal ECL20 build for some reason, instead of just a CR20 encounter. Because you could just slap Aura of Dispair/Dark Blessing/sneak attack/sorcerer casting on a Cleric frame and be done with it, if you wanted.]

DanReiv
2010-08-14, 05:05 PM
Actually, for the abjurant champion's road, you definitly need shield on your spell list. Leaving only with Sorc and Wu-Jen for the caster side.

I'd also consider the counterspell ring from Comp Arcane (not the one from MIC, less interesting) to cast aside an AMF and the Silent Spell feat to counter silence.

jiriku
2010-08-14, 05:05 PM
For a more durable encounter that's less subject to flukey effects like AMF, consider a CR 18 blackguard with another CR 18 worth of helpful minions. An evil bard would be pretty handy, as the buffing from a bard can't be AMF'd, countered, or dispelled.

DeltaEmil
2010-08-14, 06:09 PM
How many rounds do you expect your BBEG! to survive?
If less than two rounds, or even only one, just give him some stuff that will make him memorable, or make it so that he gives his minions a combat bonus, and he focuses on defending and using attacks to intimidate and cause panic on the player characters.

Rad
2010-08-14, 06:31 PM
If you're worried about silence, give him sudden silent metamagic. 1/day he can cast with no verbal component. He can use that to dispel the silence or dim. door away.
You can also have a ring of counterspelling with "silence" in

Unfortunately a single BG never lasts more than two rounds. If you want the fight to last give him some competent liuteneants to fight the group at the same time.
Also, contingent spells. Anything that delays the group.
Illusions of himself being somewhere else. If they meet him after three fakes they'll have wasted some stuff and will also be a bit more careful before investing more rather then going all'out on round 1

true_shinken
2010-08-14, 06:38 PM
If you're worried about silence, give him sudden silent metamagic. 1/day he can cast with no verbal component. He can use that to dispel the silence or dim. door away.
You can also have a ring of counterspelling with "silence" in
That would mean the party's efforts to make the fight more feasible are wasted. I dislike that. I'd rather have their actions have some effect.


Unfortunately a single BG never lasts more than two rounds.
I don't think so. The party won't fight him 'fresh', they will be coming from a battle. Also, he will be at the very least 5 levels above them. With beefed up defenses, I believe it might be a long struggle.


Also, contingent spells. Anything that delays the group.
I used this on the quirky miniboss squad; Delay Death + Heal. I could add multiple Delay Deaths + Heal on this guy, even.


Illusions of himself being somewhere else. If they meet him after three fakes they'll have wasted some stuff and will also be a bit more careful before investing more rather then going all'out on round 1
A nice idea, but I'll have them spend their resources in other battles before. I think illusions would be anti-climatic in this case.



Blackguard synergize well with hexblade, UA evil Paladin, and anything with evasion.

Giving you full BAB, very high saves, meetle and evasion. Better yet, you don't even need that much class level.

Hexblade 4/Paladin of tyranny 2/BG 2 with a ring of evasion is pretty solid. Toss in a CHA based caster, Abujrant champion, and an obscene amount of wealth and you're all set.
Story-wise, he was a good-aligned gish until he became a Blackguard, so Hexblade is a bit off. Good suggestion, though.



Enough Duskblade (use a Cha-casting variant) to get Arcane Channeling might be good. If you're the DM, you could fudge classes/feats to give him that ability anyway. I usually combine Arcane Strike feat, Arcane Channeling, Swift Casting, and a spell-storing blade for some nasty hits.
I'm tryingto make this a bit more by-the-book, but thanks.



Does Gish mean Arcane?
In this case, yes it does. It's part of the backstory.



Because Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/Ur-Priest 9 is about as Blackguard-y as you can get and has 9th level spells without a needlessly complex build or anything.
Oh, I forgot to mention. My world only has spells of up to 6th-level.


Actually, for the abjurant champion's road, you definitly need shield on your spell list. Leaving only with Sorc and Wu-Jen for the caster side.
Isn't Wu Jen Int-based? I'm going with Sorcerer by now.


I'd also consider the counterspell ring from Comp Arcane (not the one from MIC, less interesting) to cast aside an AMF and the Silent Spell feat to counter silence.
Like I told Rad, I dislike this approach. I'd like the players action to actually do some damage.


For a more durable encounter that's less subject to flukey effects like AMF, consider a CR 18 blackguard with another CR 18 worth of helpful minions. An evil bard would be pretty handy, as the buffing from a bard can't be AMF'd, countered, or dispelled.
Minions could work, perhaps I should add a few demons to the encounter just to make things a bit more interesting.


How many rounds do you expect your BBEG! to survive?
If less than two rounds, or even only one, just give him some stuff that will make him memorable, or make it so that he gives his minions a combat bonus, and he focuses on defending and using attacks to intimidate and cause panic on the player characters.
I'm shooting for a long, climatic battle here.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-14, 07:02 PM
How about getting a few levels of prestige paladin of tirany?

true_shinken
2010-08-14, 07:48 PM
How about getting a few levels of prestige paladin of tirany?
Since I'm already using Blackguard, I don't see the point.

TooManyBadgers
2010-08-14, 08:18 PM
Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/Suel Arcanamach 4/Abjurant Champion 5, then?

Only 5th level spells, but they'd if 6th is the highest available, that shouldn't be too bad.

19/20 BA, full undead/fiendish cohorts, swift buffs, a few interesting tagalong effects to attacks (4d6 Sneak attack, poison, dispels, AC's arcane strike thing... all should work in silence, even if the scarier standard buffs don't).

Mix in the feat from Drow of the Underdark that allows swift poison application for something memorable to make non-magic combat interesting. Maybe add Whirling Blade from CAdv/SpC for slightly more interesting combat and poison-delivery.

Maybe also add a Sudden Stunning weapon (DMG2) to narrow the PCs' action advantage.

If you want the build to fit the narrative, this could work if you build it to have started Paladin 10/Suel Arcanamach/whatever=>Blackguard.

Thurbane
2010-08-14, 08:26 PM
Duskblade 6/Blackguard 4/Mystic Theurge 2/Legacy Champion 8.

BAB +17, 14th level Duskblade casting, 10th level Blackguard casting. You can use Martial Study (shadow hand) to get Hide as a class skill for Duskblade (or swap out 1st level of Duskblade for Ranger). Will be very MAD however (STR, CON, INT, WIS, CHA) - INT and WIS only need to be 14 for Duskblade & Blackguard casting, though.

Duskblade spells/day: 6/9/8/7/3 (+ bonuses)
Blackguard spells/day: 2/2/2/1 (+ bonuses)

...if you don't want to use Legacy Champion, you could go MT 10 - that will drop your BAB to +15, but increase Duskblade casting to 16 (6/9/9/8/6).

If action advantage is an issue (and it will be) have him grab an (Improved) Familiar - preferably one that can manipulate magic items. Give him some ranks in UMD and have the familiar blasting away with a Rod of Many Wands - getting zapped simultaneously by Enervation, Evard's Black Tentacles and Solid Fog ought to help level the playing field (or some other combo).

Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/Suel Arcanamach 4/Abjurant Champion 5, then?
How does Paladin 1 qualify for Blackguard, or any of the other PrCs?

TooManyBadgers
2010-08-14, 08:42 PM
How does Paladin 1 qualify for Blackguard, or any of the other PrCs?
11th level fallen paladins get to trade their paladin levels for Blackguard levels.

This isn't one of those ugly loophole early-qualification things [those always leave a bad taste in my mouth]; it's one of the central features of the Blackguard class.

jguy
2010-08-14, 09:01 PM
Well just one thing for spell wise. You could save some cash on your guys gear by easily converting the Paladin spell "Holy Sword" to "Unholy Sword". Your weapon would become a +5 Unholy Sword. Just a thought.

Runestar
2010-08-14, 09:15 PM
11th level fallen paladins get to trade their paladin levels for Blackguard levels.

This isn't one of those ugly loophole early-qualification things [those always leave a bad taste in my mouth]; it's one of the central features of the Blackguard class.

It is still debatable if this allows you to ignore the blackguard's qualifications, though as the DM, what the players don't know can't hurt them. Too much. :smalltongue:

Another possibility is nar demonbinder (unapproachable east). Think there is a free preview somewhere. A 7th lv prc which starts with 4th lv spells and eventually gives you 8th lv spells. Maybe paladin1/blackguard10/demonbinderX?

Starbuck_II
2010-08-14, 09:22 PM
Nereid (3 HD/3LA) Paladin of Tyranny 3/Blackguard 10/Warrior of Darkness 1

Cha to AC/Saves. Enemies get -2 penalty to saves. Immunity to fear.
Force Grip (Drown at will) by touch (assumming just 4 attacks from BAB, you can make 4 /rd). They are a save/begin drowning.
3 rd/day, can full attack in conjunction with move action.
Displacement at will.

Oh: trade in the Pally levels for Blackguard. If playing the character in a game you'd have to wait for 11th lv pally, but no worries since already happened we assume.

Thurbane
2010-08-15, 12:06 AM
11th level fallen paladins get to trade their paladin levels for Blackguard levels.

This isn't one of those ugly loophole early-qualification things [those always leave a bad taste in my mouth]; it's one of the central features of the Blackguard class.
Hmm, I had not noticed that before...many thanks for bringing it to my attention. :smallwink:

AdamSmasher
2010-08-15, 12:43 AM
To be perfectly honest with you, PCs love to make rocket tag. There are only three ways to have a BBEG not get curbstomped by your party and only two of them are good.

1. The Bad One: Having him vastly out level your group so that they can't destroy him. A character too high level will just beat down your PCs one by one and hopefully die before he gets to the last of them, not fun.

2. Giving him cohorts. Add summoned demons to his side. Add lieutenants. A single guy will get whomped, but a team matching their own inspires tactics and makes for a fun game.

3. Make him the same or higher level as the PCs. Give him max HP for every dice. Quadruple that. If he can dish out the same damage as an average PC, he needs to have more HP than ALL your PCs combined or it won't be fair. He will lose and you won't be able to stop it, especially if you don't want him to be able to defend against the PCs attacks.


I would suggest combining 2 and 3. Give him cohorts to add some strategy, and add a boat load of health to him. If he drops like a chump after the third or fourth successful hit (Like an appropriately HPed BBEG will) then that's majorly disappointing to a PC. Believe me. If, on the other hand, the party has to wail on him while trying to get through his armor and passed his shield for 10 rounds while he slowly pounds them and his cohorts make things miserable for them, the PCs will LOVE IT.

Love it.

I've been on all sides of this scenario, as both PC and DM. It's unsatisfying for EVERYONE to have a BBEG that puts out too much damage or can't take enough. Give him allies and give him an obscene amount of hitpoints, and I guarantee everyone will have fun. Rules be damned.

WinWin
2010-08-15, 12:45 AM
As ruler of a kingdom he might have had a few contingent buffs/dispels placed on him via Craft Contingent Spell in CArc.

Not going to help against the AMF. Could help against the first couple of debuffs. Can still be dispelled...Though a contingent shaped Greater Dispel that goes off when he is targeted could strip away a buff or two from nearby PC's, alternatively it can act as a counterspell.

If the BG can choose the location of the fight, such as a throne room or something, have it protected by a Forbiddence type of effect. At least something to prevent a Scry and Die. There might also be a few nonmagical traps set up in the area as well. The BG may still take damage from his own traps, especially if in an AMF, but so will the PC's. He may even have a custom 'Trap' on or near his throne to provide a healing spell. A magical trap like this can be disabled by an AMF, disabled by a rogue, or destroyed by attacks.

As for classes, there is an adaptation of Jade Pheonix mage called Ebon Pheonix mage, which is evil. It could work well with Suel Arcanamach and Paladin. Additionally, don't forget the poison use class feature of Blackguard. Poison will still function in an AMF.

I hope this gives you some ideas

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-15, 12:51 AM
Aren't there some classes and templates whose purpose exists ONLY to increase survivability, and delay the character's inevitable death, without actually improving, you know the character's deadliness?

jguy
2010-08-15, 01:02 AM
Well I know that the Mineral Warrior template is a good one since it gives a minor boost to strength but really good boost to Con (+4) and gives them DR 8/Adamantine. Allow him to make him take a much bigger hit for longer.

Morph Bark
2010-08-15, 04:32 AM
For a more durable encounter that's less subject to flukey effects like AMF, consider a CR 18 blackguard with another CR 18 worth of helpful minions. An evil bard would be pretty handy, as the buffing from a bard can't be AMF'd, countered, or dispelled.

Bardic music can be AMF'd, since supernatural ability don't work in an AMF.

Albonor
2010-08-15, 06:41 AM
Ok, so you want a long, tough battle against a blackguard.

You need him to have:
1) Immunities. Scary when it happens and protects you from the anticlimatic failed save on the second round. Finger of Death is a buzz killer for everyone but it's legal.

2)Saves. They and should find somethings that DO work against him or it's no fun. But BIG saves to make it very hard to affect him with a game winner. Idealy, the BBEG dies from a long a well executed plan or after a long battle that takes away is MANY...

3) Hit points. He will be struck at so not matter the kind of AC you want him to have, make sure he can survive the various ways they wail at him.

4) A sense of urgency. The PCs will have less fun if they can seriously say: "we can do this all day". He must be able to hit them with status effects and damage very reliably. How much and how surrely is enough is up to your knowledge of their character sheets but still...

So, with these details in mind, I prensent you with:

Barbarian 4/Fighter 2/Blackguard 10/Doomguard 4*// Cleric with the right domain 5/Walker of the Wastes 10**/ Cleric 5.

*Planar handbook
**Sandblast? The book about the desert?

Result?: 1) Undead as of the 10th level of Walker of the Wastes with no level adjustment. Should do the trick against everything but disintegrate.

2) That FORT bonus and the Will score will hold very well. Since we was not an elf the blackguard side of the built, we could not go for an evil version of the champion of Correlon in Races of the wild and get Armored evasion. He still has a minimal bonus in Reflex but he also has a ton of...

3) Amazing hit points. Dry lich allows for CHA to hp so you're covered with your blackguard built. And a score of d12s. And a full mythril armor +5 stolen from an angel (dad?) to keep the fast movement of the barb and a great AC against that 3rd an 4th attack. And fast heal to take advantage of that longer fight and create a sense of urgency.

4) He can smite for a lot, cast spells like a level 17th cleric or a CL of 12 for the blackguard spells (not a lot of effect at this point I agree) and simply rage and wail like a maniac for a lot of dammage. Against flying opponents? Wind walk and charge a clever use of quicken spell, fire strike, miracle (I know you where thinking about it), gate, harm, destruction, a crapload of buff spells and maybe even shapechange.

So: BAB +20. HP: 12 + 12d10+ 7d12 + 20x CHA
Saves: FORT +17+CHA(x2?), REF: +6+CHA+DEX WILL: +14+CHA+WIS
Immunities: undead

You need a final score of 18 in WIS for your spells but you can cas in full armor without a problem.

With the plant domain and all those buffs, you can expect to survive a LOOOOOOONG time and make them pray for a lucky break. Except you are immune to crits, death from massive damage, sneak attacks....


Hope that helps!

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-08-15, 08:57 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention. My world only has spells of up to 6th-level.

Battle Sorcerer 4/ Fighter 1/ Spellsword 7/ Blackguard 3/ Abjurant Champion 5
Feats: Battle Caster, Combat Casting, Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Sunder, Divine Might, Arcane Strike, and Frightful Presence. Use the Metamagic Specialist ACF (PH2) for Sorcerer.
Spells Known (8/4/4/3/3/2/1), caster level 19 (equal to BAB)
0th- detect magic, read magic, message, mending, mage hand, arcane mark, sonic snap, and dancing lights
1st- shield, protection from good, alarm, and nerveskitter
2nd- wraithstrike, bladeweave, web, and see invisibility
3rd- phantom steed, haste, and vampiric touch
4th- ray deflection, black tentacles, and greater mirror image
5th- cloudkill, and wall of force
6th- greater dispel magic
Items: +2 Wrathful Healing Greatsword in a lock gauntlet, Eternal Wand of Hound of Doom (CW), +3 Mithril Full Plate, Gemstone of Moderate Fortification (Draconomicon), three Lesser Rods of Extend, Lesser Rod of Quicken, Circlet of Rapid Casting with +6 Cha, Armbands of Might with +6 Str, and Scroll of Wall of Greater Dispelling Screen (CL 20), Scroll of Wall of Iron (CL 12), and Permanency: Arcane Sight. That's a little bit over budget, but not by much. Wrathful Healing costs a +3 and heals the wielder for as much damage as it deals, including bonuses from strength and power attack.

You don't have to use Metamagic Specialist on any spell with a Swift casting time, since only spells with a casting time of a standard action or more take longer to cast with metamagic. The Lesser Rod of Quicken should be used with Haste if cast in combat, the Circlet can be used with Web when needed. The Rods of Extend should be used with Wraithstrike so it lasts two rounds per casting, and with Bladeweave so he should only have to cast it once. He should try to use Black Tentacles, Wall of Force, and Web to split up his opponents so he only has to engage a few of them at a time. Vampiric Touch and Cloudkill are there for use with Channel Spell, Cloudkill is a particularly dangerous choice if not quickly dealt with.

Tactics:
He should have Alarm cast in a few spots so he knows ahead of time when they'll show up. As soon as it goes off he should use Channel Spell to sore a Cloudkill in his sword. His battleground of choice should be a large, rectangular open room (20-30 ft. by 60-80 ft.) with a very high (30+ ft.) ceiling. It should probably be in ruins, such as an old cathedral or the dining hall of a castle that's been under siege for some time. For a room this size and height there would probably be rows of pillars along its length. There should be two entrances/exits, one at each end There should also be an opening in the ceiling or wall near the center, not very big, and shaded by trees and a curtain across it. He's placed an Alarm spell at the approach to each entrance, so he knows which way they'll be coming and when. The entrances should be long hallways no more than 10 ft. across, strewn with rubble making them difficult terrain. Each should take a 90 degree turn and go another 10 ft. before it opens up into the room. There should be some super-low-CR mooks in both hallways to delay their approach. If they approach down both hallways simultaneously, he'll Wall of Iron one of the entrances.

He'll cast Web at the corner of the hallway so it spreads 20 ft. down the hallway from the turn, completely fill the turn and the remaining 10 ft. hall after the turn, and 10 ft. into the room from the hallway. The portion that spills into the room can be supported by the pillars in the room. He should also place the Dispelling Screen across the hallway in the web so anyone who enters the room must pass through it. The room should be well lit, likely from candles or torches near the floor so that up high is naturally dark.

Prior to combat he should prepare for their arrival by casting Extended Shield (40 min), Extended Protection from Good (40 min), See Invisibility (190 min), Phantom Steed (19 hrs), Darkness near the ceiling (30 min via Blackguard), Ray Deflection (19 min), Greater Mirror Image (19 min), and Hound of Doom (5 min). As they're making their way through the web he can cast Extended Haste (38 rnd) and Extended Bladeweave (38 rnd), and fly up to the ceiling and lurk in the darkness 70 ft. from the entrance. Trying to spot him they'll be standing in a well lit room looking into darkness, plus he'll be somewhat distant and they'll be making their way through the web hence distracted.

Surprise Round (after several pass through the dispel wall): Nerveskitter, Wall of Force across the entrance blocking half of them out of the fight. Spells cannot pass through the Dispelling Screen to remove the Wall of Force, so they would have two obstacles to bypass.
1st round: Black Tentacles to hit as many of them as possible, take note of how many magical auras are on each opponent in the room. Maybe spend the next round or two targeted dispelling the ones with the most auras.
2nd round: Mount moves him to within melee and readies an action to move away after he finishes his assault. Extended Wraithstrike, Arcane Strike (6th level slot), Divine Might, Power Attack for -19 (+40 damage with the armbands), and full attack with Haste and Bladeweave active, releasing the Cloudkill (targeted effect for 1d4 Con/round for 19 minutes!). Mount moves him back to the ceiling and into the darkness.
3rd round: Mount does the same thing as on the previous round. Quickened Web centered on anyone not grappled by the tentacles (even if they have Freedom of Movement it will provide total cover), Arcane Strike (6th level slot), Divine Might, Power Attack for -19 (+40), full attack. Mount moves back into the darkness.
4th round: Black Tentacles, spend a move action to channel another Cloudkill into his sword.
Subsequent rounds: Repeat the previous 3 rounds: Wraithstrike and full attack, quickened spell if necessary and full attack, black tentacles and channel spell, repeat. Once he's out of 6th level spell slots he should start using lower level slots but try not to run out of anything. This guy hemorrhages spell slots so he can run out of steam very quickly. His steed will likely be destroyed very early, but he shouldn't be afraid to go toe-to-toe with them as long as he keeps throwing crowd controls and using the pillars for cover. His sword should keep him healed, and it can be supplemented with a rod of quickened Vampiric Touch when necessary. He should be able to take one hand off his sword to cast and still be able to make attacks in the same round.

true_shinken
2010-08-16, 08:29 AM
Thanks a lot for all the suggestions.
I like the idea of using fallen Paladin for him. Never occured to me. The build with Suel Arcanamach looks really, really good and elegant. I'll probably go for that.

Many people are mentioning specific weapons, but I already have him with the Sword of Kas (not actually the Sowrd of Kas, but the same stats). I could make him dual-wield it with a sudden stunning sword of graceful strikes, though. Evilish.

As for gear, I'm cashing in the charisma synergy. Gauntlets of heartfelt blows and slippers of battledancing are a must.

I like the (improved) familiar idea, also. I'll be sure to use it. With starting Con 18 and starting Cha 20, with a Con+6 and a Cha+6 item, buffing Con with every level up and with tomes to match, we end up with Con 34 and Cha 30. Pretty respectable. I'll simply give him max HP - the build I'm going for (ex-Paladin/Blackguard/Suel Arcanamach/Abjurant Champion) has 16d10 and 4d8 hp. 192+240=432 hit points. That's A LOT of hit points.

Now, this guy may have 20 contingencies. I will have Delay Death (trigger: battle begins) and Heal (trigger: hits 0 hp) on. Suggestions of more suggestions? Maybe 20 is too much? I want a big, interesting battle - but I also want the players to survive!

Whirling Blade + Sculpt Spell, coupled with the sudden stunning weapon, looks like a sure way to open the battle.

Any more thoughts?

chaotoroboto
2010-08-16, 11:25 PM
Thanks a lot for all the suggestions.
I like the idea of using fallen Paladin for him. Never occured to me. The build with Suel Arcanamach looks really, really good and elegant. I'll probably go for that.

Many people are mentioning specific weapons, but I already have him with the Sword of Kas (not actually the Sowrd of Kas, but the same stats). I could make him dual-wield it with a sudden stunning sword of graceful strikes, though. Evilish.

As for gear, I'm cashing in the charisma synergy. Gauntlets of heartfelt blows and slippers of battledancing are a must.

I like the (improved) familiar idea, also. I'll be sure to use it. With starting Con 18 and starting Cha 20, with a Con+6 and a Cha+6 item, buffing Con with every level up and with tomes to match, we end up with Con 34 and Cha 30. Pretty respectable. I'll simply give him max HP - the build I'm going for (ex-Paladin/Blackguard/Suel Arcanamach/Abjurant Champion) has 16d10 and 4d8 hp. 192+240=432 hit points. That's A LOT of hit points.

Now, this guy may have 20 contingencies. I will have Delay Death (trigger: battle begins) and Heal (trigger: hits 0 hp) on. Suggestions of more suggestions? Maybe 20 is too much? I want a big, interesting battle - but I also want the players to survive!

Whirling Blade + Sculpt Spell, coupled with the sudden stunning weapon, looks like a sure way to open the battle.

Any more thoughts?

I find it's really nice to have BBEG fights have an obvious and interesting and unavoidable environmental component.

The most recent one I can think of is a combat a friend of mine and I laid out (he statted it) that had a wizardly type who teleported between floating platforms with crystals that buffed him. When the party attacked the crystals, they took some amount of damage. While the BBEG was buffed, he was almost unhittable. Once the crystals were gone, he was still no slouch.

The other one I like and that I've had well is Final Fantasy style morphs - When the guy gets to some threshold, he transforms as the evil he's corrupted with takes him over - you can escalate, and shift styles, at the same time as you signal that the party is actually taking him down.

true_shinken
2010-08-17, 07:44 AM
I find it's really nice to have BBEG fights have an obvious and interesting and unavoidable environmental component.
I like those as well, but the characters will fight him during war, mid-battlefield, so it's kinda hard to come up with anything. I'd love suggestions.


The other one I like and that I've had well is Final Fantasy style morphs - When the guy gets to some threshold, he transforms as the evil he's corrupted with takes him over - you can escalate, and shift styles, at the same time as you signal that the party is actually taking him down.

That's pretty awesome, but kinda hard to translate to D&D terms.
I have a mini-boss that is a dragon with levels in assassin, for example. He hates his dragon form and pretends he is a human. He initially fights the PCs human-shaped, and when he hits 1/2 hit points, he assumes his more powerful dragon form (all those natural attacks plus Rapidstrike and Sneak Attack... ouch).
I can't kinda figure out how to it here, though. Perhaps a contingent polymorph? To what form?

chaotoroboto
2010-08-18, 02:53 AM
I like those as well, but the characters will fight him during war, mid-battlefield, so it's kinda hard to come up with anything. I'd love suggestions.

That's pretty awesome, but kinda hard to translate to D&D terms. I have a mini-boss that is a dragon with levels in assassin, for example. He hates his dragon form and pretends he is a human. He initially fights the PCs human-shaped, and when he hits 1/2 hit points, he assumes his more powerful dragon form (all those natural attacks plus Rapidstrike and Sneak Attack... ouch). I can't kinda figure out how to it here, though. Perhaps a contingent polymorph? To what form?

Well, I look at things this way: You have a base starting point, which is Blackguard & Associates. If the party and the BBEG both cast their buffs and then run straight at each other with swords pointing forward, then eventually they will whittle down hitpoints and one side will be a victor.

So you have a linear progression, where both sides have their energy decrease over time.

The point of environmental, shapechanging, and other effects is to turn that line into a big wobbly wave. So in any big encounter, I try to have things that:

1. ESCALATE - For example, the Blackguard receives a boon from his Dark God as said Dark God hedges his bet. The Blackguard takes what appears to be a devastating blow, but instead the air around him turns dark, he grows fangs, and grows into giant size. In a flash of dark energy, he pushes everyone adjacent back, knocking some of you prone! Reflex Save, suckahs!

2. DE-ESCALATE - Again, by example, the Blackguard's retinue of clerics chanting to El Dark God are all slain, and the displeasure of the Dark God is manifest as the Blackguard loses the magical aura surrounding him, and you wonder just how substantially he has been weakened. De-escalations generally should be something that the obvious effects of are something to give the party joy, and the party should be responsible.

3. MULTIPLY - Anything that DOES OR COULD synergize with an escalation or de-escalation, treat as a multiplier. So if there's a field that decreases the amount of healing done by holy magic and increases the amount of damage done by unholy magic, then the party and the Blackguard will both attempt to make the most of that. If the aura surrounding the Blackguard was some kind of negative energy field, then the party gets twice the bonus when that aura drops.

So with that in mind, for big fights I try and have at least one party-triggered escalation and one party triggered de-escalation, and two multipliers - usually one is disspellable somehow, and one is permanent.

For polymorphs, I think that for a Blackguard, transforming into something more resembling that god's non-human servants is great. So an Asmodean blackguard would take on certain Devilish qualities and maybe gain a special power off a devil's statblock. The polymorph should be accompanied by a flurry of action, or an obvious result. For a trigger, I'd say that if at any point the Blackguard takes more than a certain amount of damage during a round, that sets it off. Alternately, when it gets to a hitpoint threshold.

For environmental effects, the biggest question is: how long have the Blackguard and his minions had unfettered access to the ground in question? If it's weeks, then icons may have been scattered throughout the field and made to provide certain advantages to the forces of evil. (Dispell? Smash them!) If it's centuries of evil Kings ruling the land for their Satanic masters, then it could be corruption that has seeped into the soil itself, and as the fight escalates, the soil starts to dissolve away, revealing a bedrock the color of blood and with malicious effects if one even stands on the barren patches. If the battle goes on long enough, an actual mouth to hell opens, and when the BBEG is killed, instead of him falling over dead, the mouth closes around him as he fails to scrape his way out, screaming in despair. But in the meanwhile it does acid damage to anyone standing in it.

Also for a battle, having sharpshooters hidden with longbows taking potshots from some 300 or 400 yards away, disappearing into the trees and then taking potshots again a round or two later, or having support groups hidden away, and casting buff/debuff effects on the field as a whole would make the combat hectic and intense.

For large fields, having a magic source that is powered by a large contingent far away might not be disspellable by a simple dispel magic or antimagic field, but it should be disspellable by some other tactic, such as hunting the clerics down, breaking the physical parts of their connection, perhaps a dispel magic with a few complex checks thrown in. But each attempt should have a potentially negative effect - is it worth taking sonic damage to break these icons when it's just a bump to the Blackgaurd's AC? Is it worth it if I fail? Performing these acts usually work as a great de-escalation, because it makes things move faster afterwards, and gives the party a mid-fight sense of accomplishment.

Sorry, lots of words.

true_shinken
2010-08-18, 10:21 AM
Sorry, lots of words.

Well, thanks for all the suggestions. ^^