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ExtravagantEvil
2010-08-14, 11:39 PM
Greetings to all who live in the playground, I need some more assistance, I can't think of a way to do racial features for egyptian style dwarves. They still live in mountains, but now they're morbid, solemn and obsessed with the dead,what with their lands now turned to barren dust with zombies plaguing everything (Fall Out: New Egypt :smallcool:).
I'm keeping the basics, dark vision, 20ft speed, and the heavy lifting, but I don't know what to do after that, I know I'm getting rid of the Goblin, Orc, and Giant bonuses, but I don't know how to replace those.
I am using Sanity and Taint as variant rules in this, just letting you know.

Human Paragon 3
2010-08-14, 11:44 PM
Give them Hide from Undead as a 1/day at-will racial SLA (sort of like Whisper Gnomes get Silence). You can design some feats to give them extra uses of it, let clerics spend turn undead attempts to power it, or give them other death-related powers.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-14, 11:46 PM
Well, here's Desert Dwarves (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertDwarves):



-2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution
No stonecunning.
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against humanoids of the reptilian subtype (including kobolds and lizardfolk) and dragons (including half-dragons. This bonus replaces the normal dwarf's bonus against orcs and goblinoids.
+4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against dragons: This replaces the dwarf's dodge bonus to AC against giants.
+2 racial bonus on Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Knowledge (dungeoneering), and Profession (miner) checks
No racial bonus on Craft checks.


Swap the racial bonuses to attack and AC to both apply vs. Undead, and you might have a good starting point.

Human Paragon 3
2010-08-14, 11:48 PM
I always viewed the situational dodge bonuses as pointless minutae that rarely came into effect. Dwarves (and elves) are full of baggage like that. IMO 4e had the right idea about race design.

Eurus
2010-08-14, 11:50 PM
I love the idea of dwarves building pyramids, heh. Maybe replace the bonus to saves vs. poison with a bonus to saves vs. necromancy or the special abilities of undead?

Lhurgyof
2010-08-14, 11:53 PM
Egyptian Dwarves? Hmmm...

If their obsessed with Necromancy and such, give them a favored class as a spellcasting class, perhaps.
Give them Gentle Repose as a Spell-like ability?
Give them the racial attack rolls vs. Undead? Or, they're treated as one level higher for turning checks.
That's a good start.

devinkowalczyk
2010-08-15, 12:54 AM
Might also consider doing some research on the Valley of the Kings, seems right up their alley.
Really a lot of egypt is very dwarven, with all the stone work done.
The pyramids, the statues, the temples...

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-15, 01:27 AM
Consider combining abilities of Desert Dwarf (SRD) and Badlands Dwarf (Sandstorm) maybe?

Lets see to combining them:
-2 cha OR -2 dex, +2 con
Basic Dwarf Traits (Land Speed, Medium, Darkvision, Weapon Familiarity with all Dwarven Weapons, etc., except as options are replaced as shown here)
+2 racial bonus to survival, +2 racial bonus on search, +2 racial bonus to knowledge geography (these are some of the most useful skills in a wasteland survival situation)
*Watercunning, not stonecunning: Can make an automatic search check to find water if they come within 10 feet of a water related construction or hazard, and can use search to find water based traps like a rogue can
*Can go without water for 2 days, plus a number of hours equal to their constitution score, before experiencing the ill effects of concentration
*No bonus on appraise or craft
*+4 dodge bonus against the single most common, major threat desert creature type in your campaign setting, instead of against giants
*+1 racial attack bonus against the creature category that they get the dodge bonus against
*A custom version of the Unearthed Arcana / SRD Heat Endurance trait, and the Sandstorm Heat Endurance feat, which might read something like this:
Heat Endurance: Can exist comfortably up to temperatures including 120 degrees F. Gains +2 bonus on fortitude saving throws against both fire effects, and to resist hot weather.

Bhu
2010-08-15, 01:41 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bes

Thy might also worhsip Bes

Aroka
2010-08-15, 04:03 AM
I love the idea of dwarves building pyramids, heh.

☼Great Pyramid of Urist☼

It is made of sandstone. It menaces with spikes of camel bone.


Seriously though, Egyptian dwarves work well. Lots of mining, building pyramids and necropolises, brooding over the dead. They're a morbid race by default, so emphasize that. Lots of construct and undead guardians of the dead. Also, they must shave themselves entirely and wear fake beards.

0Megabyte
2010-08-15, 04:17 AM
Ahh. Good old Dwarf Fortress reference.

Anyway... why do you need to change that much? The Eberron setting makes elves death obsessed, and doesn't change the elven states one whit. Why not just play up the fluff, and leave the crunch alone?

Starshade
2010-08-15, 04:52 AM
Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman's Death Gate Cycle had one planet, Abarrach, who concisted of stone, lava tunnels, and a deserted dead ice surface, and extinct men/dwarven/elf races and a morbid "super race" who resurrected their dead to survive. Its possible to borrow some ideas from that:

Imagine dwarves dont worship dead, just resurrects their dead to survive, nessecity, not really out of religion. If the living can't farm the land, fight the rogue undead, etc. Why not make zombies and skeletons to do it? If they die; make more, etc.

What sanity rules do you use, Call of Cthulhu d20 as D&D supplement? (i got the d20 CoC book, not just had time to try it out yet...).

bansidhe
2010-08-15, 05:15 AM
Ooh and make them all walk like an eygyptian...:D


[sorry couldnt resist!]

endoperez
2010-08-15, 06:17 AM
Are you going to go with dwarves' taking their ancestor worship to the next level? A pretty basic nation of dwarves, just with a different set of burial rites. Vast but empty and dark underground cities, built with care but never inhabited, fully functional but only housing the dead. Eerie and ghostly, and empty.
Imagine generations upon generations of dwarves toiling their lives just so they'll get buried with functional weapons and armor, the dead of the entire race getting ready to save their nation from the prophecied doom. Dying alone with the body being wasted would be, not sinful, but a waste of resources. Imagine the moment when the armageddon finally comes, and the dwarves being ready for it. Think Ghost Martyrs of the Sapphire Guard, but much, much bigger.


If your dwarves are ancestor-worshipping and intrigued by death and undead, having Speak With Dead 1/day or something similar wouldn't be out of place. Favored class: Cleric and ability to always choose to rebuke undead regardless of alignment might also be appopriate.

Feel free to ignore this post if your dwarves are undead-smiting. Some of the earlier suggestions would work better, in that case.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-08-15, 06:31 AM
Green Ronin's Hamunaptra setting (D&D in mythical Egypt) just tweaks the fluff for dwarves.

Name: Ptahmenu
Created by Ptah, the dwarves are the craftsmen of Khemti, responsible for all the great works of the land - but as their buildings stand for generations out of memory, the perfection of their craft works against them, and like the wondrous monuments around them, the dwarves become taken for granted by the other races.
As society falls away from the golden age, becoming more corrupt, the human rulers treat them increasingly as slaves to build their monuments... A deep seated resentment is brewing among the "men of Ptah" - one last push is all it will take to spark off a rebellion.

(Paraphrasing and summarised - it struck me as an interesting angle on dwarves: a dwarven rebellion would be terrifying to behold...)

IdleMuse
2010-08-15, 06:35 AM
One homebrew rule I add to dwarves in my setting, to partially offset the removal of the enemy-specific bonuses, is as follows.

"Resilient (ex): Dwarves staggered by nonlethal damage do not fall unconscious until the nonlethal damage exceeds their hit points by their Constitution score or more. Dwarves are naturally resilient to bruises and knocks."

It's also worth mentioning I use (-CON) as the death threshold rather than (-10), so in a game without that houserule, I'd use "until the nonlethal damage exceeds their hit points by 10 or more".

It's a minor yet flavourful advantage, a bit like Diehard but only for nonlethal damage, that rarely comes up yet is easy to remember. They still remain staggered at negative hit points, so it's not like it's just +10hp.

Eldan
2010-08-15, 06:38 AM
I did Egyptian dwarves once. One of the most important things I added in the fluff was that, as is often the case, the dwarves were few in number, but they ruled a gigantic empire of slave races, mostly goblins, which they used to farm the fields and build their gigantic structures.

ExtravagantEvil
2010-08-15, 10:43 AM
What sanity rules do you use, Call of Cthulhu d20 as D&D supplement? (i got the d20 CoC book, not just had time to try it out yet...).

I use the d20 SRD variant sanity, I'm not sure if those are the same.

Here's a small bit of fluff that might assist here:

Their lands, as previously mentioned, were turned to zombie infested dust, so they are taking a "Fight fire with fire" initiative. They've been working on making the undead (I believe their ruler is a mummy, not sure) to see how to defeat them. So they craft/smite which, I think, is an interesting combo.

awa
2010-08-15, 10:52 AM
Egypt has plenty of water im not sure water finding mechanics or bonuses to survival make much sense

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-15, 01:49 PM
Egypt has plenty of water im not sure water finding mechanics or bonuses to survival make much sense

The OP said this was post apocalyptic Egypt!

devinkowalczyk
2010-08-15, 02:32 PM
Egypt has plenty of water im not sure water finding mechanics or bonuses to survival make much sense

Egypt is, was, and will be a desert
sure they have the nile and some oasises
but it is primarily a big sandtrap

TheThan
2010-08-15, 03:07 PM
I used dwarves as Arabic desert traders once, they work perfectly for that roll. They had a vast trading empire. You know caravans across the desert, trade ships etc.

I even an NPC off of this:

Riff Raff Sam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PeeO8ltmE8&feature=related), and one off of Yosemite Sam in “bugs bunny’s third movie, 1001 rabbit tales”. Which I can’t seem to find a link for.

tcrudisi
2010-08-15, 03:15 PM
I always viewed the situational dodge bonuses as pointless minutae that rarely came into effect. Dwarves (and elves) are full of baggage like that. IMO 4e had the right idea about race design.

While I respect your opinion, may I please ask that you refrain from just saying "4e does it better"? That type of comment doesn't really help the OP and could possibly lead to an edition war. Instead, try saying what elements of 4e you would give the new dwarves he is trying to create in order to make it better balanced in 3.5

Egypt was a center of trade back in the day; perhaps you could use that as an excuse to give an extra bonus language or two? Plus, I do like the bonus to survival and a bonus against undead (even if just the Hide from Undead SLA mentioned above).

Also, a houserule for automatic character death to anyone who says their dwarf walks like an egyptian.

ExtravagantEvil
2010-08-15, 03:18 PM
Good Morn, I've taken some of the things you said into account and have come up with this:

+2 Con, -2 Cha
Speed: 20ft
Vision: Dark, 60ft
+1 attack rolls v. Undead
+4 Dodge to AC v. Undead (Anything less generic than this with same fluff?)
+1 on Saves v. Necro
+1 Necro DC's
+2 v. Spells and spell affects
+2 Fort saves v. Poison
+2 Craft stone and metal
Stone Cunning
and the Heavy lifting bit Dwarves have

I was thinking of adding Taint resistance and so on, so what do you think should be added/removed from the list above?

Grytorm
2010-08-15, 03:23 PM
Egypt is, was, and will be a desert
sure they have the nile and some oasises
but it is primarily a big sandtrap

Yes Egypt is one large desert. But nobody lives where there isn't water, most of Egypt's population is on the Nile, and I think most of the land not near the Nile is worthless. Besides this you can dig canals spreading the water further.

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-15, 04:02 PM
I'd say...

+2 Con, -2 Cha
Speed: 20ft
Vision: Dark, 60ft
+1 attack rolls v. Undead
+4 Dodge to AC v. Undead (Anything less generic than this with same fluff?)
+1 on Saves v. Necro
+1 Necro DC's
+2 save v. Spells and spell affects
+2 Fort saves v. Fire, Hot Weather
+2 Racial to Survival, Search, and Knowledge Geography
Water Cunning
Thirst Survival
and the Heavy lifting bit Dwarves have
Heat Endurance

Human Paragon 3
2010-08-15, 10:32 PM
While I respect your opinion, may I please ask that you refrain from just saying "4e does it better"? That type of comment doesn't really help the OP and could possibly lead to an edition war. Instead, try saying what elements of 4e you would give the new dwarves he is trying to create in order to make it better balanced in 3.5


Wow, I thought my comment was pretty benign and self explanatory. OK, to be clear, what I meant was, lots of little abilities that are situational and you have to remember aren't very effective for making a flavorful race, which is their intent. Having fewer abilities that actually do something is better. It gets right to the point: What is this race about? What characteristics define what it means to be a Dwarf? Is it a situational dodge bonus? Probably not. Give them something they can actively do. Somebody above mentioned speak with dead as a 1/day racial SLA. That would be a great ability in my opinion.