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AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-15, 08:25 PM
So, how do you be a balanced DM?

My first campaign was crap. No one could tell, since we were all begginers, but looking back on it, it was horrible. Namely, we had 7 players. The part included an Archon, Half-Dragon, 2 Raksasha, Lizardfolk, and Drow. Everythong was insane.

I have another RL about to start up, and I feel like Im going to be way to restrictive. I already kind of have been in the setup.

Any suggestions on how to be a more balanced DM?

Boci
2010-08-15, 08:27 PM
Use only the races from the PHB, or LA 0 races. Certainly no race with an ECH (LA + racial hitidie) above +3. Ask players to only use classes you or they understand. Trust them to explain their abilities to you.

Traveler
2010-08-15, 08:28 PM
Define a "balanced DM". It sound like your asking more for a balanced campaign.

PId6
2010-08-15, 08:29 PM
Eh, maybe try using the actual rules on monster races? Creatures with Level Adjustment and Racial Hit Die count towards the total number of levels you can have, and you can't take them at 1st level. For that reason, most monster races (like Rakshasa, Lizardfolk, Drow, etc) are hideously underpowered.

DabblerWizard
2010-08-15, 08:37 PM
By balanced, it sounds like you want to be fair and easy going. Is that right?

Teaching a DM to be this way, is rather difficult, especially from scratch, not knowing you at all. Much of the way you DM, beyond literal rules reading, will have to do with your personality. Yet, there are behaviors you can take on that might make your job a bit more fair.

In some way, being fair has to do with being calm and reasonable. Spend time thinking about what your players tell you. Sometimes they'll want to change minor things, like teaching their horses tricks with a nature check. Other times, they may want to take on more than you can handle. In either case, breathe, and stay calm. That in itself, can help a lot.

Another thing to consider is allowing each of your players the chance to impact the adventure. Some of them may already be loud mouthed, and you don't have to worry about getting these people's input. Others may be more quiet, and may need to be asked what they want their character to be doing in a situation. Allow them all to have a voice.

I might be able to give more specific feedback if you give us a sense what you think you struggle with.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-15, 08:46 PM
^

Not being a complete ass and not letting the players being a dragon. Thanks for the tips


Use only the races from the PHB, or LA 0 races. Certainly no race with an ECH (LA + racial hitidie) above +3. Ask players to only use classes you or they understand. Trust them to explain their abilities to you.

Sounds good.


By balanced, it sounds like you want to be fair and easy going. Is that right?

Teaching a DM to be this way, is rather difficult, especially from scratch, not knowing you at all. Much of the way you DM, beyond literal rules reading, will have to do with your personality. Yet, there are behaviors you can take on that might make your job a bit more fair.

In some way, being fair has to do with being calm and reasonable. Spend time thinking about what your players tell you. Sometimes they'll want to change minor things, like teaching their horses tricks with a nature check. Other times, they may want to take on more than you can handle. In either case, breathe, and stay calm. That in itself, can help a lot.

Another thing to consider is allowing each of your players the chance to impact the adventure. Some of them may already be loud mouthed, and you don't have to worry about getting these people's input. Others may be more quiet, and may need to be asked what they want their character to be doing in a situation. Allow them all to have a voice.

I might be able to give more specific feedback if you give us a sense what you think you struggle with.

Yeah. Honestly a few players had been more careful reading the rules then I had.

Boci
2010-08-15, 08:47 PM
^

Not being a complete ass and not letting the players being a dragon. Thanks for the tips

Pretty much. If you can give us more details about what went fron with your last game we could give you more tips, but those 2 should help a lot.

Flickerdart
2010-08-15, 08:48 PM
Look at the capabilities of monsters compared to the PCs, not their challenge rating. The vermin and other animals, for example, don't hold a candle to the Monstrous Crab or Shadow. A Dire Wolf or Unicorn has a to-hit of +11, meaning that it might practically auto-hit some or all of your 3rd level party members that have neglected AC. And that's from a CR-equivalent monster, where the party is only supposed to expend 20% of its resources! Against that same Shadow or an Allip, the party has no chance if it has no magic weapons (half of a character's WBL at this point).
That's another thing - wealth is vital. Wealth is how non-magic classes keep up. Swear by the WBL table in the DMG - you might think, as a new DM, that giving your players a whole 300 GP for that Orc they killed is ludicrous, but 300 GP isn't all that much, and it's cash they need to survive. Levels without cash means that they're less well-equipped to handle tougher challenges.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-15, 08:50 PM
Pretty much. If you can give us more details about what went fron with your last game we could give you more tips, but those 2 should help a lot.

It was pretty much a plot-less Dungeon crawl. Half way through, half the players wanted to switch their characters, and I submitted. Some plot happened revolving around questing for some Bug Egg's for a wizard.

The game ended prematurely and a Wizard NPC selfdestructed taking out a black dragon and a few of the players :smalleek:

Flickerdart
2010-08-15, 09:03 PM
It was pretty much a plot-less Dungeon crawl. Half way through, half the players wanted to switch their characters, and I submitted. Some plot happened revolving around questing for some Bug Egg's for a wizard.

The game ended prematurely and a Wizard NPC selfdestructed taking out a black dragon and a few of the players :smalleek:
You should always have a plot in mind, even if it's loose. In fact, having only a loose plot is good for when your PCs decide to switch sides and hang out with Lord Wrongbadman instead of Sir Radiant. Discuss motivations with your PCs - they get believable and deep characters, and you get plot hooks. When in doubt, roll on a table to see which beloved family member got abducted by bad people.

Bosh
2010-08-15, 09:08 PM
Eh, maybe try using the actual rules on monster races? Creatures with Level Adjustment and Racial Hit Die count towards the total number of levels you can have, and you can't take them at 1st level. For that reason, most monster races (like Rakshasa, Lizardfolk, Drow, etc) are hideously underpowered.

This. This. This.

Shadowleaf
2010-08-15, 09:09 PM
It's not very hard to throw together a decent group, first of all:

Where is the party?

Why are they there? (Who sent them, are they meeting up there, are they meeting someone there, have they been summoned by someone, etc)

Why is the party travelling together / why would the party travel together?

What goals do they have?

What would you as a DM have them do? Let's say you want them to fight demons. Ask yourself: Why would an adventurer fight a demon? Perhaps he wants to do good, perhaps because he's getting paid. Who would pay an adventurer to kill demons? A Cleric. Why would the Cleric want to stop the Demon? Because the Demon is doing something evil. What's something evil? Enslaving a village. Have the group walk into the village, and slowly notice something is odd.


It is all about the trail of thought. Keep asking yourself questions, and keep it coherent. Soon, you will have a decent plot which actually makes sense.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-16, 12:16 AM
If you're new at plot and the like, pick up an adventure module or three. There's a fair amount of freebie ones around if you don't want to pay for one. Grab stuff that sounds interesting to you, flip through em, see if they sound appropriate, and modify as needed.

Yeah, lotsa rules reading is good. Im amazed how many people don't read through the rules much before playing. Whenever I pick up an RPG, I read through at least the core books cover to cover.

Aroka
2010-08-16, 12:30 AM
Stick the PHB for your first few campaigns (first 50 sessons or so, I guess). Use WBL and CRs and ELs. The rules fall apart in various extremes, but with a bunch of new players, it all works pretty fine.

kyoryu
2010-08-16, 02:38 AM
Learn to say no - but do so when necessary, not just arbitrarily.

Your game takes place in a world. Things exist in your world, and some things don't exist. If you know what's in your world, you can set lines on what is and is not allowable. Maintaining a consistent game world will anchor your game, and allow the events to have meaning.

Two great phrases are "no, but" and "yes, but". "No, but" is used to disallow something, but give the player alternatives that are similar or may scratch the same itch. "Yes, but" is used to "soft deny" players, by allowing them to do things, but letting them know exactly why it's a bad idea and how their lives will be made miserable by their choice.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-16, 08:21 AM
If you're new at plot and the like, pick up an adventure module or three. There's a fair amount of freebie ones around if you don't want to pay for one. Grab stuff that sounds interesting to you, flip through em, see if they sound appropriate, and modify as needed.

Yeah, lotsa rules reading is good. Im amazed how many people don't read through the rules much before playing. Whenever I pick up an RPG, I read through at least the core books cover to cover.

Free? Where?

Yeah. Between 8 people we had 2 PHBs. Some people were clueless and (2)others had it memorized.

I had a rule that the players couldn't read the MM or DMG. Was that, well, a bad idea?

@ Everyone Else: Thanks for the great advice. Im saving this stuff in a MS Word document.

Boci
2010-08-16, 08:26 AM
I had a rule that the players couldn't read the MM or DMG. Was that, well, a bad idea?

Do remeber the magic item section of the DMG. As far as the MM goes, as long as they are not playing a race from it, reading it is not neccisary.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-16, 08:32 AM
Do remeber the magic item section of the DMG. As far as the MM goes, as long as they are not playing a race from it, reading it is not neccisary.

Yes. I worded that poorly. I didn't let them read it cover to cover.

Flickerdart
2010-08-16, 10:00 AM
Keeping the players away from your Monster Manual will limit the abuse on Druids a bit, since they can't cherry-pick forms and companions the character isn't familiar with. The DMG, however, contains prestige classes, so it might be a good idea to let the players read those if they want to guide their build towards one.

onthetown
2010-08-16, 10:02 AM
I suck at being balanced. My players fear for their characters' lives 24/7 and see every nook and cranny as some sort of trap. I've driven them to paranoia.

But they love the campaigns and I make sure that they're having fun while fearing for their characters' lives. So maybe that's balance.

HunterOfJello
2010-08-16, 10:02 AM
Play with less players. 4 should be the maximum for a new DM, and having that many players will be difficult enough.

MarkusWolfe
2010-08-16, 10:04 AM
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/checkfortraps

Almost everything you need to know as a DM can be found within that series of articles.

Also, 3.5 or 4.e?

AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-16, 12:42 PM
Play with less players. 4 should be the maximum for a new DM, and having that many players will be difficult enough.

Yes. This next game will only have 3 or 4


Keeping the players away from your Monster Manual will limit the abuse on Druids a bit, since they can't cherry-pick forms and companions the character isn't familiar with. The DMG, however, contains prestige classes, so it might be a good idea to let the players read those if they want to guide their build towards one.

Yes well, they only got to 3rd Level. They were aloud to read that section. One of the Raksahas' started as an Assassin. Something about instant qualification.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/checkfortraps

Almost everything you need to know as a DM can be found within that series of articles.

Also, 3.5 or 4.e?

I'll check it out, thanks.

3.5 for the original game. Though I own the 4E core, so I could go either way for the next one.

Flickerdart
2010-08-16, 12:51 PM
Yes well, they only got to 3rd Level. They were aloud to read that section. One of the Raksahas' started as an Assassin. Something about instant qualification.
Rakshasa have a certain amount of Outsider HD, so they can use those to qualify for prestige classes. However, those HD are still levels the character has to have taken (never mind the hefty LA), so a proper Rogue or whatever can get in earlier.

There's really no problem in allowing monstrous races. With a few exceptions, they're considerably weaker than equal-ECL characters with real character classes. For example, the Drow has a level adjustment of +2, meaning that he will have 2 fewer levels than, say, an Elf. A Half-Dragon has a +3 level adjustment. Rakshasa have 7 racial hit dice and a level adjustment of +7, so it's a 14th level character. Compared to a 14th level Human Sorcerer, a Rakshasa is pretty awful.

Ormur
2010-08-16, 05:39 PM
Withholding material, like the DMG and MM, from your players can make things easier for you initially and it's can also make things fun for the players. Everything is new and shiny and they have know idea what things do. It has a bit of magic to it but once they and you become more experienced you should probably recognize that they'll know just as much as you do about the mechanics.

Weasel of Doom
2010-08-16, 06:10 PM
Some of the stuff on this website might help with building adventures if you have some time to browse through, particularly node-based design and the gm-tips.

http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/creations.html

And this might help with creating adventures I guess

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/ab

and here are some prebuilt adventures

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030530b&page=1

Tyndmyr
2010-08-16, 07:15 PM
Withholding material, like the DMG and MM, from your players can make things easier for you initially and it's can also make things fun for the players. Everything is new and shiny and they have know idea what things do. It has a bit of magic to it but once they and you become more experienced you should probably recognize that they'll know just as much as you do about the mechanics.

I wouldn't recommend withholding per se...but make sure they have a good grasp on what they have, first. There are a *lot* of materials out there. Instead of saying "you can't read the DMG", which will last until they discover that they can read the SRD for free online, and it has almost everything on it...say, "I'd prefer you didn't read the DMG until you know the PHB fairly well". Get the basics down, and then branch out from there.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-17, 07:49 PM
I just want to say, I didn't know about LA when I DMd this campaign. :smallfrown:

Anyway, new possible players know about the SRD so withholding won't happen. Though, I'll tell them to keep away from the monster section. Im in the mindset that they'll enjoy it more. As Ormur said, everything is new and shiny. And playing 4E would do that too, but Im not sure I'm willing to do that.