Belkar a "Ranger"

[My2Cents]

Ok, I know it is indesputable cannon that Belkar is a Ranger with a bit of Barbarian.

But for arguments sake, how can we be sure? :smallbiggrin:

He has killed helpless animals (the mouse in the inn)
He sucks at animal empathy (mikos horse)
He hasnt taken any ranks in survival (whos the better tracker?)
He has never been shown with an animal companion
He has said that hes a ranger (but can you really trust anything he says?)
At one point he uses a divine-magic scroll, after having his wisdom increased.
But maybe he has a few ranks in use-magic-device, and just lied about needing wisdom because he didnt want to help out.

Yes, I know I'm not actually going to convince anyone that hes not a ranger, and that this debate is a lost cause.

[Morty]

None of this proves he's not a ranger. It proves he's bad at being a ranger.

[Kish]

The best ranger who ever lived could not command a paladin's mount. Killing helpless animals is about being Chaotic Evil; rangers are by no means barred from doing so, and may, in fact, take Animals as a favored enemy. His rudimentary ability to track despite having no ranks in Survival and a crippling Wisdom penalty is only because he has the Track feat as a class feature. And he certainly has been shown with Mr. Scruffy.

[137beth]

If he's not a ranger, explain his Wild empathy check
and The fact that he could use Durkon's scroll when his wisdom was boosted.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

He is a ranger because he has said as much.. He uses teh TWF specialization. Mr. Scruffy is also thought to be his animal companion. It's not proven yet, but very likely. His low wisdom score means he can't cast ranger spells.

[DemLep]

Belkar calls himself a Warrior. V is the one who tells him he is a Ranger and I believe after the Miko encounter he puts a rank in survival not to be out done be her. Not positive on that though.

[Kish]

Belkar calls himself a Warrior.

Check the very first strip.

V is the one who tells him he is a Ranger and I believe after the Miko encounter he puts a rank in survival not to be out done be her.
What evidence is there of this? Bear in mind that he would have to have put a rank in Survival on his next level up; he couldn't suddenly produce a skill point out of sheer irritation at Miko.

[DemLep]

So he does say he's a Ranger in the first comic. He must forget between there and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html). He also seems to only know of the TWF part of a Ranger at that point.

As for survival I said I wasn't positive and I can't remember if or when it would have happen to dig through the archive. And yes I know it would be at the next time he level.

[Kish]

So he does say he's a Ranger in the first comic. He must forget between there and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html).

"Can there not be facets of life that are not defined solely by class?"

Belkar's not saying his class is warrior. He's saying he's a warrior, which, regardless of his class name, he is.

He also seems to only know of the TWF part of a Ranger at that point.

Well, he's forgotten that rangers can normally cast spells, certainly.


As for survival I said I wasn't positive and I can't remember if or when it would have happen to dig through the archive.

If you mean onstage, no, Belkar has never indicated that he put any ranks in Survival.

[monomer]

So he does say he's a Ranger in the first comic. He must forget between there and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html). He also seems to only know of the TWF part of a Ranger at that point.

As for survival I said I wasn't positive and I can't remember if or when it would have happen to dig through the archive. And yes I know it would be at the next time he level.

Well, he seems to have remembered that he's a Ranger again with some Barbarian levels by this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0610.html).

[DemLep]

@Kish: I don't know. At that point they seem to very distinctively describe themselves by their class. That was my view on it at least. As for the survival skill; guess I was wrong.

@monomer: Oh I forgot his levels in Sexy Shoeless God of War. What are the prerequisites for that PrC? Halfling, BAB of some sort I'm sure.

[onthetown]

So he does say he's a Ranger in the first comic. He must forget between there and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html). He also seems to only know of the TWF part of a Ranger at that point.

As for survival I said I wasn't positive and I can't remember if or when it would have happen to dig through the archive. And yes I know it would be at the next time he level.

A chaotic Ranger who loves to fight is, technically, a warrior:

warrior (ˈwɒrɪə)

— n
a. a person engaged in, experienced in, or devoted to war
b. ( as modifier ): a warrior nation

[C13: from Old Northern French werreieor, from werre war ]


He was describing himself, not his class.

Edit: Wait a minute -- levels in Sexy Shoeless God of War? I assumed that was also describing himself (albeit with delusions of grandeur)... Has he started taking classes and prestige classes for every title he gives himself now?

[Kish]

@Kish: I don't know. At that point they seem to very distinctively describe themselves by their class.
What class is Girard, if that's the only way they describe themselves?

We know he has a ranger dip for feats and...that's it. We can surmise based on his mastery of illusions. He is probably a wizard or a sorcerer or a bard, or all three. But a primary (non-dip) class for him has never been mentioned.

The characters, like most people, describe themselves in multiple ways. Their classes are one of those ways. Not the only one. And I hope you're not serious about "Sexy Shoeless God of War" being a class.

[Dusk Eclipse]

What class is Girard, if that's the only way they describe themselves?

We know he has a ranger dip for feats and...that's it. We can surmise based on his mastery of illusions. He is probably a wizard or a sorcerer or a bard, or all three. But a primary (non-dip) class for him has never been mentioned.

The characters, like most people, describe themselves in multiple ways. Their classes are one of those ways. Not the only one. And I hope you're not serious about "Sexy Shoeless God of War" being a class.

I am sure I have seen that on the homebrew forum.

[DemLep]

Edit: Wait a minute -- levels in Sexy Shoeless God of War? I assumed that was also describing himself (albeit with delusions of grandeur)... Has he started taking classes and prestige classes for every title he gives himself now?


What class is Girard, if that's the only way they describe themselves?

We know he has a ranger dip for feats and...that's it. We can surmise based on his mastery of illusions. He is probably a wizard or a sorcerer or a bard, or all three. But a primary (non-dip) class for him has never been mentioned.

The characters, like most people, describe themselves in multiple ways. Their classes are one of those ways. Not the only one. And I hope you're not serious about "Sexy Shoeless God of War" being a class.

Not sure what his class would be. And I'm not saying every character describes themselves that way. Just that the PC's were for a time.

No, I wasn't, but I do think it would be an awesome class. Damn I wish that subtleties of speech were easier to convey over the internet.

[Maquise]

The cast page says Belkar is a ranger, just to point that out.

[Kish]

Doesn't count! The cast page says Haley is human and we all know she's half-dragon, half-celestial, and half-fiend.

[monomer]

@monomer: Oh I forgot his levels in Sexy Shoeless God of War. What are the prerequisites for that PrC? Halfling, BAB of some sort I'm sure.

I don't understand what you are getting at here. From Panel 9 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0610.html):

Shojo: Answer the question. What are you?
Belkar: Uh.. a Halfling?
Shojo: What else?
Belkar: A ranger? with a sprinkling of barbarian?

That pretty much tells me that Belkar is fully aware of what class levels he has, which are completely in-line with what the rest of the order thinks, and what is shown in the comic.

[the_tick_rules]

None of this proves he's not a ranger. It proves he's bad at being a ranger.

This sounds about right to me.

[Puschkin]

In strip #22 Roy also says Belkar is a Ranger and Belkar approves:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0022.html

[Volthawk]

@Kish: I don't know. At that point they seem to very distinctively describe themselves by their class. That was my view on it at least. As for the survival skill; guess I was wrong.


So, you think Belkar is an NPC class (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/warrior.htm)? :smalltongue:

[thubby]

He has killed helpless animals (the mouse in the inn)
rangers don't have to be nice to animals. as has been mentioned in other threads, you can sell your companion for horse meat if you want.

He sucks at animal empathy (mikos horse)
paladin mounts are magical beasts

He hasnt taken any ranks in survival (whos the better tracker?)
tracking is fairly useless

He has never been shown with an animal companion
the cat


At one point he uses a divine-magic scroll, after having his wisdom increased.
But maybe he has a few ranks in use-magic-device, and just lied about needing wisdom because he didnt want to help out.
were that the case, he still could have feigned not having enough wisdom. and do you really think he has the charisma for UMD? or the INT to invest in it?

[kyoryu]

Belkar's a Ranger. No question about it. His character as a whole is a parody of min-max munchkin behavior.

Forgetting that he's a Ranger, and thinking he's a Fighter, is just another poke at the same joke - he only took the class for the combat bonuses in the first place, he's literally forgotten about his other class abilities.

(there's also a bit of meta-gaming fuzziness between Belkar and his player in this, but that's to be expected since lack of RP is one of the behaviors that Belkar parodies)

[Orzel]

Belkar's a Ranger. No doubt.

In truth, I once did play a ranger who didn't use half his class features. Ranger is one of the few ways to get feats without meeting the prerequisites.

Belkar could have easily put his focus in Str and just ate the racial penalty. It's not smart but it's not that stupid either.

By picking Ranger over Fighter for at least 11 levels he gets:
one step down on HD
-4 bonus fighter feats
+2 bonus non-fighter feats
a loss of some armor proficiencies
A better skill list
More skill points
Actual Class features

A fair trade if all you care about for your class is the ability to stab two people at once. TWF Fighters suck anyway. :smalltongue:

[David Demola]

Ok, I know it is indesputable cannon that Belkar is a Ranger with a bit of Barbarian.

But for arguments sake, how can we be sure? :smallbiggrin:

He has killed helpless animals (the mouse in the inn)

Hunters do it all the time.


He sucks at animal empathy (mikos horse)

Miko's horse is celestial. It's different.



He hasnt taken any ranks in survival (whos the better tracker?)

Just because he didn't take any ranks in it doesn't mean he isn't a ranger...it just means he's a bad ranger.



He has never been shown with an animal companion

Mr. Scruffy clearly has that kind of bond with Belkar.


He has said that hes a ranger (but can you really trust anything he says?)

What fun would he get out of lying about being a ranger?


At one point he uses a divine-magic scroll, after having his wisdom increased.

And?


But maybe he has a few ranks in use-magic-device, and just lied about needing wisdom because he didnt want to help out.

Or he's deficient in wisdom and intelligence, and the boost gave him the stat bonus to Use Magic Device to use the magic device.

...and I'll let the last quote stand on its own.


Yes, I know I'm not actually going to convince anyone that hes not a ranger, and that this debate is a lost cause.

[DemLep]

So, you think Belkar is an NPC class (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/warrior.htm)? :smalltongue:

Yes, and he came from a village of epic level commoners!


I don't understand what you are getting at here. From Panel 9 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0610.html):

Shojo: Answer the question. What are you?
Belkar: Uh.. a Halfling?
Shojo: What else?
Belkar: A ranger? with a sprinkling of barbarian?

That pretty much tells me that Belkar is fully aware of what class levels he has, which are completely in-line with what the rest of the order thinks, and what is shown in the comic.

I was stating stuff from before that point. Which happens after he is told he is a Ranger. Only Kish mention of the first comic would go against the idea.

I would also like to say that I'm pretty sure no one honestly think Belkar isn't a Ranger. This thread was set up to see if he could be shown to be something else. And it can be done.

[Bongos]

I always thought the main reason Belkar decided to be a ranger was because of the ranger and their use 2 weapons at the same time....and that that was part of the joke of why he was a ranger.

Have we ever seen Belkar use a barbarian ability?

[DemLep]

I always thought the main reason Belkar decided to be a ranger was because of the ranger and their use 2 weapons at the same time....and that that was part of the joke of why he was a ranger.

Have we ever seen Belkar use a barbarian ability?

He uses Rage once. And I think something else.

[Nilan8888]

Belkar's a ranger... he just also happens to be just about the worst ranger ever. :smalltongue:

[devinkowalczyk]

He is a terrible ranger
but that happens

like my friends gnome barbarian

[Kish]

Your friend's gnome barbarian is a terrible ranger?

[thubby]

He is a terrible ranger
but that happens

like my friends gnome barbarian

actually, if you get giant fighting feats (i forget where they're from, but they want you to be 2 size categories smaller than your target) you can make a pretty impressive small melee character.
you'd be surprised how much stuff is large or larger.

[Nilan8888]

He is a terrible ranger
but that happens

Well, when the Paladin is a better Ranger than you are...

It might be funny actually to underline this sometime before Belkar dies where it turns out that just about anyone in the party... or anyone they run into on the street... is better at being a Ranger than Belkar is.

Belkar's better described as a homicidal cat-owner than a Ranger.

[Dr.Epic]

He has killed helpless animals (the mouse in the inn)

There's no rules about what a ranger can and can't kill to be a ranger. Hell, even druids can kill animals.


He has never been shown with an animal companion

Mr. Scruffy. Class feature or not, the cat is an animal and Belkar's companion.


He has said that hes a ranger (but can you really trust anything he says?)

So everything Belkar says is automatically a lie? When he explained to Celia Roy died?

[137beth]

The fact that he told his conscious (in the form of Shojo) that he is a ranger/barbarian means either he IS a ranger, or he THINKS he is a ranger. Somehow, it just doesn't seem plausible that Belkar could think he is a ranger without having any ranger levels.