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View Full Version : Phantasm: The Imagining (NWoD Homebrew Project, any takers?)



Malfunctioned
2010-08-16, 02:36 PM
It's no secret that I love White Wolf's World of Darkness. But I've recently been wanting to try my hand at trying to create my own fan-line for it, ala Genius: The Transgression. Unfortunately, as much as I want to create it I would probably find it very hard to do so by myself and I also cannot decide on what the line should actually be about, so far I've had two ideas but both of them seem to be encroaching onto other lines.

Revenant: In this you would play murdered mortals who simply refused to die when their time came. Instead they rose from the dead intent on revenge on their murderers, but before they can do that they must fight their own degradation into mindless undead whilst also taking down the same. The revenants would be split into their 'groupings' by either the way they died or the emotion that was behind their murder. The only problem is I feel this could encroach slightly onto the territory of Geist: The Sin Eaters due to the whole 'rising from the dead' thing.

Elemental: For some, yet undecided, reason, the characters have become part of the elements themselves. Perhaps they are actually the child of a full elemental on one side or they've come into contact with the 'pure' form of the element. The characters would have to resist the pull towards becoming part of nature themselves, essentially dissolving into thin air and becoming sheer forces instead of living creatures. Their abilities would be given to them by which of the four (five? six?) elements they are linked to. This one may be a slight too close to Changeling and Promethean.

So any advice or questions? Offers of help maybe?

IcarusWings
2010-08-16, 04:08 PM
I'd love to help out, but I'm still relatively new to the rules (read them through about a month and a half ago), I really like them though.

One I've wanted to do was Ghost: The Something, as there don't seem to be any rules for playing ghosts I've come across so far and it would be fun.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-08-16, 04:29 PM
Phantasm: The Imagining might be an interesting concept. Players would play as beings composed almost entirely of the dreams of humanity, balancing the belief and hope that powers them against the ever-encroaching nightmares of the subconscious.

Malfunctioned
2010-08-16, 04:53 PM
Phantasm: The Imagining might be an interesting concept. Players would play as beings composed almost entirely of the dreams of humanity, balancing the belief and hope that powers them against the ever-encroaching nightmares of the subconscious.

That is...good. Very good. I think I might actually run with this. I'll just have to think how we could do the whole five factions thing. I think either the typical supernatural attribute or the mortality stat should be named Lucidity.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-08-16, 04:59 PM
That is...good. Very good. I think I might actually run with this. I'll just have to think how we could do the whole five factions thing. I think either the typical supernatural attribute or the mortality stat should be named Lucidity.

If you do take this idea, I would like to be very actively involved. Otherwise it's something I'd run with myself, as I've actually grown very attached to the concept. :smallbiggrin:

Malfunctioned
2010-08-16, 05:02 PM
Well I'd be very glad to have on board with this as I think I will be using it. What ideas have you got so far?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-08-16, 05:08 PM
Well I'd be very glad to have on board with this as I think I will be using it. What ideas have you got so far?

Not many, actually. I'm open to pretty much any suggestions, as tossing around a bunch of ideas will get us the farthest.

A good way to split up the factions would be amenable though. Perhaps save the creatures of nightmare for non-player characters...at least at first. So 5 different factions of dream entities...maybe by the emotion behind the dream? I'm not sure.

Fear, Hope, Love...?

Malfunctioned
2010-08-16, 05:12 PM
It does depends upon whether they are created of the dream or the emotion behind the dream, for instance, a phantasm created of a fear dream would themselves be scary and fearsome, one produced by the emotion would be themselves be fearful. But yeah, the emotions behind the dream do seem like a good way.

Fear, Happiness, Desire, Anger and Sorrow would probably be a good place to start.

Kallisti
2010-08-16, 05:13 PM
Changeling: The Lost has some pretty extensive rules for dreams, their denizens, and oneiromancy. You might want to have a look at them; they have some pretty interesting stuff, and it'd give you a place to start for the mechanics of dreamrealms.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-08-16, 05:18 PM
It does depends upon whether they are created of the dream or the emotion behind the dream, for instance, a phantasm created of a fear dream would themselves be scary and fearsome, one produced by the emotion would be themselves be fearful. But yeah, the emotions behind the dream do seem like a good way.

Fear, Happiness, Desire, Anger and Sorrow would probably be a good place to start.


Hm. The former is a good question. I sort of like the idea of these creatures being vulnerable to extremes of the emotion they are born out of.

I'd also change Happiness to Joy, as Happiness just seems out of place in terms of naming conventions.

un_known
2010-08-16, 05:23 PM
One thing you might want to do for Phantasm: The Imagining would be similar to Geist: Sin-Eaters.

They are a human with everyday problems and stuff but it is at night that they gain their powers through dreams. Like you'd sort of have two characters, one being a Dream creature and the other being the human.


I would also like to help with this and I can think of some rather interesting ideas for different dream things.

I would tend to stay away from happy emotions behind dreams as NWoD tends to keep to a dark feeling. So it would make more sense for things like: Desire/Lust/Temptation, Aggression/Anger/Rage/Animosity, Sorrow/Despair/Melancholy/Depression, Fear/Terror/Anxiety, Confusion/Panic, Jealousy/Malice et cetera.

Malfunctioned
2010-08-16, 05:29 PM
One thing you might want to do for Phantasm: The Imagining would be similar to Geist: Sin-Eaters.

They are a human with everyday problems and stuff but it is at night that they gain their powers through dreams. Like you'd sort of have two characters, one being a Dream creature and the other being the human.


I would also like to help with this and I can think of some rather interesting ideas for different dream things.

I would tend to stay away from happy emotions behind dreams as NWoD tends to keep to a dark feeling. So it would make more sense for things like: Desire/Lust/Temptation, Aggression/Anger/Rage/Animosity, Sorrow/Despair/Melancholy/Depression, Fear/Terror/Anxiety, Confusion/Panic, Jealousy/Malice et cetera.

Well I'll be happy for anyone who wants to help to join in. I'm not too sure if being a human and a phantasm could go quite well.

I do quite like the those emotions though, but Joy can be quite a dark emotion. As the Phantasm could lose Lucidity they could become more and more prone to outbursts of the emotion. Just imagine a small-scale reality warping Joker.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-08-16, 05:30 PM
Yeah...you can do evil, evil things with the concept of Joy. That said...where is it written we have to limit ourselves to 5 factions?

Malfunctioned
2010-08-16, 05:37 PM
Good point. Though we have to make sure they don't overlap much.

Lust, Rage, Despair, Joy, Terror, Malice and Panic sound quite good to me.

Kallisti
2010-08-16, 07:33 PM
I'm not sure Terror and Panic are sufficiently different to deserve separate factions.

Malfunctioned
2010-08-16, 07:39 PM
So Terror (Fearborn), Rage (Angerborn), Despair (Sorrowborn), Joy (Blissborn? Doesn't sound right to me, any suggestions?), Jealousy (Maliceborn) and Desire (Lustborn). Does that sound good to people?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-08-16, 07:58 PM
So Terror (Fearborn), Rage (Angerborn), Despair (Sorrowborn), Joy (Blissborn? Doesn't sound right to me, any suggestions?), Jealousy (Maliceborn) and Desire (Lustborn). Does that sound good to people?

The emotions do. The names, less so. I'll look through my greek and latin lexicons tonight and see if I can come up with anything better.

Also, on the topic of terrible joys...a 5 dot power has to be something like this idea I had ages ago.

Dread Cage of Unimaginable Bliss: The basic premise is that, in a single instant, you show someone an image of perfect, unending, and almost incomprehensible happiness. For the rest of their life they are tormented by existence itself, for nothing, nothing, can ever compare with that joy that they seek to find again, even for a second, with every atom of their being.

un_known
2010-08-16, 08:06 PM
Oh my I love that so much!

Terror:Formidonisortus
Rage:Saevioortus
Despair:Desperortus
Joy:Tripudiumortus
Jealousy:Zelusortus
Desire: Votumortus


Ortus means birthed and thefirst part is the word in latin. So despair birthed or as we'd translate it, born of despair.

IcarusWings
2010-08-17, 05:50 AM
The emotions do. The names, less so. I'll look through my greek and latin lexicons tonight and see if I can come up with anything better.

Also, on the topic of terrible joys...a 5 dot power has to be something like this idea I had ages ago.

Dread Cage of Unimaginable Bliss: The basic premise is that, in a single instant, you show someone an image of perfect, unending, and almost incomprehensible happiness. For the rest of their life they are tormented by existence itself, for nothing, nothing, can ever compare with that joy that they seek to find again, even for a second, with every atom of their being.

Surely that would be a lust/desire power. This is why I think that joy should be rolled into lust. It's not so much the dream, but residue emotion the dream leaves in you afterwards. This is easy for the dark emotions, if you wake up from a scary dream you're still scared for a while when you wake up etc. but with a blissful dream full of ecstasy, you don't wake up happy, you wake up wanting more.

hamishspence
2010-08-17, 05:53 AM
Maybe theres a "World of Dreams" the characters come from that, can manifest (rarely) in the world as "phantasms" which are usually dismissed by mortals watching as momentary daydreams, and most of the hazards come from the various nightmares mortals dream up?

Malfunctioned
2010-08-17, 01:23 PM
I like that idea and I think we really should go with them fighting against nightmares.

One thing I want to try and do first is to work out their morality system. I think I'll be going with the name Lucidity for it, the higher the Lucidity the more human-like their thought patterns and in control of their emotions they become.

However this would mean that their though patterns would have to be quite different from a normal human since their entire minds would be mainly controlled by a single emotion instead of the collection of them that most humans have.

un_known
2010-08-18, 12:35 PM
We could build an entire dream world for them. One that constantly changes and is always new but has certain fixed points called, Dream Catchers. These Dream Catchers would be the driving force behind Phantasms, they originally are just emotions in humans but when a Dream Catcher grabs hold of them they become something tangible and real.

Dream Catchers would be set up in different domains around the Dreamscape, usually with a sort of Phantasm city built up around one. But once you leave an area with a Dream Catcher the Dreamscape becomes distorted by all the emotions and conflicts of dreaming humans. So basically you could be walking along a nice paved road in a forest and suddenly have a whirlpool of quicksand forming before you and rising up in the form of a nightmare an explorer had ever since they almost died in quicksand.

We could introduce various ways of gettingrid of things like this, helping a person battle their nightmares or destroying them yourself. Helping the person would require you to find/gather their embodiment in the Dreamscape and help them overcome their fear through more RP stuff. Or battling it through fighting. Some Nightmares would be to powerful for you to fight and so you would have to help the human overcome their fear, while others you could just fight.

For creating Phantasms and their Lucidity system. You could then tie them down to the human that created them (Sort of like my original idea but different) Their lucidity would be that they are keeping the humans mind safe but as they battle more nightmares, or even become nightmares themself their human counterpart begins to slip into maddness. And from their we can set up a sort of mutation system because of how warped the human mind can become when driven by nightmares.

IcarusWings
2010-08-18, 01:00 PM
How will these Phantasm's be able to interact with the real world? This is kinda a necessity as NWoD (as opposed to OWoD) modules are supposed to be able to be mixed and matched. And it's sort of a problem if your party is composed of say, a hunter and werewolf, and then a phantasm who only exists in the dream world.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-08-18, 01:01 PM
How will these Phantasm's be able to interact with the real world? This is kinda a necessity as NWoD (as opposed to OWoD) modules are supposed to be able to be mixed and matched. And it's sort of a problem if your party is composed of say, a hunter and werewolf, and then a phantasm who only exists in the dream world.

I figured the Phantasms would indeed by physical entities. They might interact with the shady boundaries between reality and dreams, but they are primarily real beings.

un_known
2010-08-18, 01:05 PM
How I'd imagine it working with something like that would be you'd put one person in your group down as the person whos imagination created you. And so you can manifest yourself in the physical world and your stronger the closer you are to the person who imagined you, or you can pull your allies into the Dreamscape for different amounts of time via the Dream Catchers.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-08-18, 01:07 PM
How I'd imagine it working with something like that would be you'd put one person in your group down as the person whos imagination created you. And so you can manifest yourself in the physical world and your stronger the closer you are to the person who imagined you, or you can pull your allies into the Dreamscape for different amounts of time via the Dream Catchers.

This seems interesting, but I'd rather avoid it. Being tied to an individual is slightly annoying...but does anyone else have any opinions on the matter? This is just my opinion.

un_known
2010-08-18, 01:13 PM
Being tied to an individual would be a bit hard sometimes, mainly when they can't be there. But some of the things I see that would be helpful would be the fact you could be inside their head and then some thugs corner your person they are about to really kill or hurt him and you suddenly manifest scare them to death or just kill them and then help your person.

Or we can scrap the idea of you beign tied to a person in your group and just put it as your a figment of a human mind driven by 1 emotion and as you battle nightmares and other attrocities you slip deeper and deeper into the nightmares themselves.

We'd keep it that you can be in both worlds and that you can pull your friends into the Dreamscape with you.

IcarusWings
2010-08-18, 01:15 PM
I figured the Phantasms would indeed by physical entities. They might interact with the shady boundaries between reality and dreams, but they are primarily real beings.

That's what I thought it was at first too, but then people started saying about them living in dreamworlds and I thought everyone else was thinking that they would be made of dream-stuff and living in dreamland etc. etc.

un_known
2010-08-18, 01:24 PM
I'm imagining Phantasms as being things made of Dreamstuff that can intrude upon the mortal world. They would be able to freely travel between worlds. Possibly we could make it that they can travel to the mortal world freely but to get back to the Dreamscape they must find a tear of somekind in the fabric of Dreams. This would also make sense for other members of the party to be able to come along with them.

IcarusWings
2010-08-18, 01:36 PM
I'm imagining Phantasms as being things made of Dreamstuff that can intrude upon the mortal world. They would be able to freely travel between worlds. Possibly we could make it that they can travel to the mortal world freely but to get back to the Dreamscape they must find a tear of somekind in the fabric of Dreams. This would also make sense for other members of the party to be able to come along with them.

But the problem with this is that, even if other party members come along, it means that a significant portion of the story/chronicle will likely be spent on the dreamworld, meaning that the phantasm steals the spotlight of the story.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-08-18, 01:59 PM
I'm gonna say we ground this mostly in the real world. It's more fitting with the WoD mentality, I think, and gives the game a darker feel.

erikun
2010-08-18, 02:33 PM
The idea of Phantasm is interesting. I'm a fan of WoD (both editions) and would be interested in helping out.

I think that having every character as a person, or a potential person, would be best. Even going with the idea of a Phantasm being created through strong emotion, there is no reason why it needs to be seperate from a living individual. After all, people who sleep rarely remember their dreams - perhaps Phantasms, who come into being through emotional tramas, do not realize their waking lives? Dreams and dreamworlds would have different perceptions of time. Being gone for 16 hours - or even 3 months - wouldn't be noteworthy for beings with no sense of time.

Another interesting point to tie into the WoD worldview is the concept of anchors. Ghosts treat anchors as highly emotional objects and locations, a way to stay connected to the world. A Phantasm, especially one from a person, would probably have anchors as well. They may not know what they are or why they are important - especially if the Phantasm doesn't know their waking lives - but they do know they are important and that they are a way to get from dreamworlds into the real world, much like a ghost.

Of course, none of this needs to be set in stone. A Phantasm may "commonly" be created by a sleeping person dealing with emotional trama, but it doesn't have to be. One could be created by intense emotions of a group or at a location, or even still be around after the person has died. And while Phantasms may not remember their waking lives, higher level powers could allow them to do so, or be active while otherwise "asleep".

sdream
2010-08-19, 09:29 AM
I hated how different spirits were from ordinary characters in WoD and made an alternate major template, acts primarily like every other character (can be attacked and can attack) except:

- Spirits can boost social and mental actions like vamps do physical actions
- Spirits which break a sworn oath suffer -1 SUCCESS per roll until they make full amends
- Spirits not inhabiting bodies must spend 1 PP for each physical action
- Spirits not inhabiting bodies cannot become armored although they may have defense
- Only Spirits using max Animalism, Dominate, Embody, or Auspex may move over a meter from an anchor
- A spirit which takes full lethal damage is dispelled, not unconscious or dead
- A dispelled spirit returns 24 hours later at the anchor of it's choice
- Only by being dispelled when no anchors remain is a spirit destroyed
- Every day a spirit gains 1 PP and heals one lethal or aggravated damage
- Spirits gain PP (instead of WP) by inducing others to perform the spirit's virtue/vice
- Spirits may spend a PP to shift presence instantly from one anchor to another (if unobserved)
- Spirits may freely shift between anchors at the same location

Anchors
- Spirits may have a number of anchors up to rank*2 (or more with merits)
- Additional anchors are each a 3 point merit for everyone
- Only places, things, or people with a strong connection to the spirit may be made anchors
- Trying to make an anchor requires 1PP, an hour of contact, and then a successful rank roll
- Even when able to move physical things, spirits may not move their anchors themselves
- Besides physical destruction, purposeful acts of desecration can sever anchors
- Place anchors are largest and hardest to destroy, but non-mobile

Spirit Powers - Vampire Disciplines of Animal control, Domination, Majesty, Nightmare, Obfuscate, and Auspex

Other powers:
Transit - 1 - Your may choose to cause neither traces nor sound when moving
- 2 - may walk on any surface, regardless of solidity or gravity
- 3 - for 1 PP may pass through objects without interacting for 1 turn
- 4 - may freely transit between anchors without cost when unobserved
- 5 - for 1 PP may take another with them when transiting
Omnipresence - 1 - awareness of general events and people near all anchors
- 2 - hear, see, and speak clearly at all anchors simultaneously
- 3 - may spend 1 agg to split in two for 24 hours, sharing everything but actions
- 4 - can maintain primary rank copies indefinitely (creating and replacing still costs 1 agg)
- 5 - copies each have their own health pool, healing and dispelling separately
Embody - 1 - May make gentle manipulations at close range without cost (small objects, levers, buttons)
- 2 - for 1 PP/rank turns may become physical or gain embody rank to all physical actions
- 3 - when unobserved, may possess an anchor undetectably (may take mental actions only)
- 4 - may spend 1 agg to create and inhabit a permanent, armorable living body
- 5 - for 1 PP may possess, manipulate and travel as a machine, doll, or item with joints

This is part of my work in progress simplifying and standardizing all the supernaturals (and providing allies, like ghouls for all of them, and allowing the mixing of major template+minor templates) over here:

https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Accb-5R4pH_zZHg1ejJtd183MWMzYzQ3cXBx&hl=en

My project is to strip ALL the fluff and condense the crunch of each type of supernatural to 2 pages (1 page for mortal heroes), but you are welcome to use any of my crunch that strikes your fancy for your project creating one new supernatural with lots of fluff like the nWoD books.

Triscuitable
2011-03-26, 11:56 AM
SUPER BUMP!

Do NOT let this project die! From what I've seen, this is an AMAZING thread where everyone has become totally devoted. I may be new to the World of Darkness, but gosh darnit, I'm not gonna let something like this just sit on it's but and not go anywhere!