PEACH Air Goblin Ninja

[IdleMuse]

Just need a quick opinion on this build; playing in a quick one-shot and need to fill the sneak-attack damage-dealer role.

Shadow Goblin Ninja

Air Goblin

STR 10
DEX 22 -> 24 (+7)
CON 8
INT 16 (+3)
WIS 8
CHA 8

1| Swashbuckler 1 | Weapon Finesse, Carmendine Monk, Evasive Reflexes, EWP(Spiked Chain)
2| Monk 1 | Stunning Fist
3| Swordsage 1 | Shadow Blade, Weapon Focus
4| Monk 2 | Combat Reflexes
5| Swashbuckler 2 |
6| Rogue 1 | Ascetic Rogue
7| Rogue 2 |
8| Swordsage 2 |
9| Swashbuckler 3 | Daring Outlaw, (Acrobatic Backstab)

Maneuvers & Stances (* readied)
1| Stance: Child of Shadow, Maneuvers: Clinging Shadow Strike*, Shadow Blade Technique, Burning Blade*, Wind Stride*, Counter Charge, Sudden Leap
2| Stance: Assassin's Stance, Maneuver: Strength Draining Strike*

ACFs
- Arcane Stunt: Grace -> 4/day Expeditious Retreat
- Invisible Fist: Evasion(monk) -> Invisibility (1 round in every 4)
- Penetrating Strike: Trap Sense -> Half SA on immune foes

Equipment
+1 Ki Focus Deadly Precision Spiked Chain 18325
Monk's Belt 13000
Bracers of Opportunity 2300
Hideaway enchant on Spiked Chain 2000
mwk Hide tool 50
mwk Thieves tools 100
Scroll of Summon Undead I 25
200gp

_Specifics_
AC 23 (10 base, +7 dex, +3 int, +1 size, +1 monk, +1 dodge)
Max attack: Spiked Chain +16 (+6 BAB, +7 dex, +1 Focus, +1 enhancement, +1 size) for 10d6+16 (1d6 weapon, +7d6 SA, +7 dex, +1 enhance, +3 int, +1d6+5 burning, +1d6 strike)

Sorry the formatting isn't the best, should be readable though. Everything on there has been okayed, just for reference, including the slightly hairy options of taking Carmendine Monk before actually having a monk level (debatable RAW), and treating Ascetic Rogue as stacking for SA damage (as table in CAdv, not text), so it's not really a question of legality, more, playability.

Obviously this guy's schtick is sneak attacking, mostly using the Acrobatic Backstab skill trick to accomplish an opportunity if necessary. The combination of chain, Combat Reflexes, and Evasive Reflexes means I hopefully can avoid too many people getting too close to me, stepping backwards as I'm approached. I haven't written skills up but assume he buys all the traditional sneaky skills including max tumble for the skill trick. He certainly isn't lacking skill points at any rate. In the same way, I haven't decided which flaws to give him yet.

I'm a little leery on the ToB stuff, never played a Swordsage before, so do point out if there's better maneuvres i've overlooked, or if I calculated something wrong (in any part of the build really). The equipment is a bit mutable really, the scroll is only in there for a laugh, and so I have around number of GP left (for bribes etc). If there's anything important I've forgotten please enlighten me.

General PEACH appreciated and welcome.

[IdleMuse]

Bump for some actual feedback.

Anything I need to particularly add to the build? Would it be better as a straight rogue? What about choices of flaws? I was thinking the low-will one, and possibly the low hp one? I know I'm already taking a hit there from CON 8. Maybe the low-fort one? The DM for this game has expressly mentioned that Murky-Eyed WILL be relevant, and the two -2toattacks flaws are rolled into one by houserule. What about the Arcane Stunt from CMage? I chose Expeditious Retreat, are any of the other options better?

Just general opinions? Too cheesy? Too underpowered for a high-op game? How would you go about taking him down?

[Eldariel]

Ouch. Anything you can do about that 8 Con? 'cause you aren't just hurting, you're hurting there. That means your average HP will be around Wizard-levels, and you intend on hitting things head-on with few protections. I wouldn't run around with less than 14 Con when on the front.

Flaw selection should be rather obvious:
- Vulnerable
- Pathetic Charisma or Inattentive

Your saves aren't gonna be so low that you should dump them, nor so high that you can afford a penalty so stay away from those. Also, umm, get Mage Armor cast on you or use armor. Swordsage Wis to AC (provided DM reads Carmendine for all such abilities, not just Monk) applies in light armor so you could put that on no problem (you'd only lose out on Flurry of Blows from Monk); something like a +1 Mithril Shirt would vastly improve your survivability and cost mere 2000gp. Mage Armor would be optimal, of course.


You need 3 Rogue-levels to take Penetrating Strike and sorta for Daring Outlaw too (tho Assassin's Stance sorta-kinda qualifies you). Reordering things should help there.

Your maneuvers...well, they're alright. Though you need to pick a prerequisite for Sudden Leap; Wolf Fang Strike is quite good for you (as you can do secondary unarmed attack with it and UA Strike qualifies for Finesse and Shadow Blade). I'd probably pick up Power Attack from the Monk-levels since you don't need to meet prerequisites for feats from Monk-levels and that's the only way you're getting it. It's fine with two-handed Spiked Chain.

Cloak of Deception makes Invisible Fist a bit less amazing, but c'est la vie; you can still use them in conjuction. Oh, and definitely make sure to pick up Distracting Ember; priceless for triggering Sneak Attack. It's Desert Wind. Also, you may want to build up to Wallbreaker, or Mountain Hammer from Stone Dragon. Overall, I'd probably take quite a bit of more ToB for this build. Rabid Wolf Strike is something I'd look forward to too. And I'd take Island of Blades over Child of Shadow simply because you need to flank for SA and Island makes it possible basically everywhere.

[IdleMuse]

Thanks for the feedback!


Ouch. Anything you can do about that 8 Con? 'cause you aren't just hurting, you're hurting there. That means your average HP will be around Wizard-levels, and you intend on hitting things head-on with few protections. I wouldn't run around with less than 14 Con when on the front.

I know it hurts, I'm somewhat relying on mages to get me back up again if necessary; there's really no way I can up this sensibly.


Flaw selection should be rather obvious:
- Vulnerable
- Pathetic Charisma or Inattentive

Your saves aren't gonna be so low that you should dump them, nor so high that you can afford a penalty so stay away from those.

DM disallows Pathetic, and I'd rather not lower my AC since I have such low hp, the more AC the better. hence...


Also, umm, get Mage Armor cast on you or use armor. Swordsage Wis to AC (provided DM reads Carmendine for all such abilities, not just Monk) applies in light armor so you could put that on no problem (you'd only lose out on Flurry of Blows from Monk); something like a +1 Mithril Shirt would vastly improve your survivability and cost mere 2000gp. Mage Armor would be optimal, of course.

DM ruled that Carmendine only applies to Monk, not similar abilities.
I could switch out the Bracers of Opportunity for Bracers of Armor +1? Probably +2 if I switch things around. It's also likely we'll have someone that can cast Mage Armour in the party, but I wouldn't like to rely on them.

Or... with the skill ranks I have, I can probably get enough UMD to warrant wands of Mage Armour and Shield, is that more sensible?


You need 3 Rogue-levels to take Penetrating Strike and sorta for Daring Outlaw too (tho Assassin's Stance sorta-kinda qualifies you). Reordering things should help there.

Herp derp, the Penetrating Strike was just a mistake, I forgot when Rogues get Trap Sense +1. Assassin's Stance is letting me qualify for Daring Outlaw (DM ruled than since it was an innate ability to me, it counted, where stuff like Deadly Precision didn't).


Your maneuvers...well, they're alright. Though you need to pick a prerequisite for Sudden Leap; Wolf Fang Strike is quite good for you (as you can do secondary unarmed attack with it and UA Strike qualifies for Finesse and Shadow Blade). I'd probably pick up Power Attack from the Monk-levels since you don't need to meet prerequisites for feats from Monk-levels and that's the only way you're getting it. It's fine with two-handed Spiked Chain.

Cloak of Deception makes Invisible Fist a bit less amazing, but c'est la vie; you can still use them in conjuction. Oh, and definitely make sure to pick up Distracting Ember; priceless for triggering Sneak Attack. It's Desert Wind. Also, you may want to build up to Wallbreaker, or Mountain Hammer from Stone Dragon. Overall, I'd probably take quite a bit of more ToB for this build. Rabid Wolf Strike is something I'd look forward to too.

Cool, thanks for the tips here. If this character is ever going to level up, it'll probably take a lot more Swordsage levels later on. If I take lvl10 in Rogue, (mostly to get the aforementioned Penetrating Strike), and finish the back 10 levels in Swordsage, i'll get 8th level maneuvers, which is pretty nice. It's a pity the Shadow Sun Ninja class is a bit poo really.


And I'd take Island of Blades over Child of Shadow simply because you need to flank for SA and Island makes it possible basically everywhere.

The main mechanic for getting reliably getting SA is Acrobatic Backstab; Child of Shadow is there so I have a guaranteed way of gaining at least some concealment, if it becomes relevant.

Anyway, thanks an awful lot for the advice.

[Eldariel]

I know it hurts, I'm somewhat relying on mages to get me back up again if necessary; there's really no way I can up this sensibly.

How are the stats generated? If it's point buy, it'd be pretty automatic to cut out 2 points of Dex (drop it to base 16 [18 with Goblin-modifiers]) and add 6 to Constitution. 'cause honestly, in the frontline with 8 Con...I mean, mages have better things to do than constantly try to keep your ass going.


DM disallows Pathetic, and I'd rather not lower my AC since I have such low hp, the more AC the better. hence...

Well, it's only 1 point. Really, the impact isn't all that huge, and it's more of a matter against mooks with lower attack bonuses than the big hitters. Generally, it's one of the less impactful flaws as one hit is unlike to kill you, but one failed save can very well kill you or worse (failed Will-save can lead to you killing the rest of your party).


DM ruled that Carmendine only applies to Monk, not similar abilities.
I could switch out the Bracers of Opportunity for Bracers of Armor +1? Probably +2 if I switch things around. It's also likely we'll have someone that can cast Mage Armour in the party, but I wouldn't like to rely on them.

Or... with the skill ranks I have, I can probably get enough UMD to warrant wands of Mage Armour and Shield, is that more sensible?

Wand of Mage Armor or Shield is kinda meh; Mage Armor is hours/level so one casting in the morning from a real caster will do but Wands are Caster Level 1 so you'll run out of charges rather quickly. Get Bracers if there's no way you're getting Mage Armor, but Mage Armor is cheaper (Pearl of Power I for the caster should have you covered) and lasts hours/level.

Tho if going for Lone Wolf-style, I guess you need Bracers; again, Wands run out and the duration is pretty pathetic. Shield-spell would be really nice (no other such source of Shield-bonus without actually wielding a shield, something you can't do), but it lasts only for 1 minute so it can be difficult to arrange for encounters. That said, UMD is probably still worth having. Some Wands can be lifesavers (and Grease pretty much guarantees SAs again). It's worth noting that Acrobatic Backstab can only be used once per encounter (same with all skill tricks) so while it's a useful SA enabler, you can't rely on it.

[IdleMuse]

How are the stats generated? If it's point buy, it'd be pretty automatic to cut out 2 points of Dex (drop it to base 16 [18 with Goblin-modifiers]) and add 6 to Constitution. 'cause honestly, in the frontline with 8 Con...I mean, mages have better things to do than constantly try to keep your ass going.

Yeah, I suppose that logic makes sense. *makes change*


Wand of Mage Armor or Shield is kinda meh; Mage Armor is hours/level so one casting in the morning from a real caster will do but Wands are Caster Level 1 so you'll run out of charges rather quickly. Get Bracers if there's no way you're getting Mage Armor, but Mage Armor is cheaper (Pearl of Power I for the caster should have you covered) and lasts hours/level.

This is something I never quite got; surely any caster needs CL5 to buy the Craft Wand feat; so all wands should have an effective caster level of 5 at least? Or is it based on your caster level, so 0? Can someone prod me towards/quote the bit of the rules I need here?


That said, UMD is probably still worth having. Some Wands can be lifesavers (and Grease pretty much guarantees SAs again). It's worth noting that Acrobatic Backstab can only be used once per encounter (same with all skill tricks) so while it's a useful SA enabler, you can't rely on it.

Derp, I always forget that about skill tricks. I generally find that with a max tumble and a use of Acrobatic Backstab I can get through _most_ encounters without failing to SA. A wand of Grease is probably going on the shopping list as well though, since I was planning to but a fair number of points in UMD anyway.

[Eldariel]

This is something I never quite got; surely any caster needs CL5 to buy the Craft Wand feat; so all wands should have an effective caster level of 5 at least? Or is it based on your caster level, so 0? Can someone prod me towards/quote the bit of the rules I need here?

You're allowed to lower your caster level if desired. CL1 Wands are cheapest; a CL 5 Wand of Mage Armor would cost 3750 already, for example. So simply a matter of economy.


Derp, I always forget that about skill tricks. I generally find that with a max tumble and a use of Acrobatic Backstab I can get through _most_ encounters without failing to SA. A wand of Grease is probably going on the shopping list as well though, since I was planning to but a fair number of points in UMD anyway.

Get Distracting Ember in there; ensures full attack SA every other round, and works with Penetrating Strike to SA anything.