PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Assassin DMG Class...



gibbo88
2010-08-17, 06:40 AM
...what is everyone's thoughts on it? I'm tempted to give it a try for flavour however I don't want to be walking around powerless. If there is a specific problem with it I am open to suggestions to fix said problems.

Noodles2375
2010-08-17, 06:50 AM
It's a fine prestige class for rogue-ish people who want to keep being able to be sneaky/dps but also get some number of neat magic spells.

You get much fewer skill points, the uncanny dodge overlap is unfortunate, and depending on what campaign levels you use, you'll likely miss out on some or most of the rogue's "special abilities". But I think in overall power level, the spellcasting makes it actually a bit of a step up from the rogue.

hamishspence
2010-08-17, 06:53 AM
The "must be evil" requirement may be a little bit of a problem in some campaigns- unless you can get the DM to houserule it out- maybe replace with "any nongood"

DemLep
2010-08-17, 06:58 AM
You could house rule out the alignment thing all together. I never understood why assassins couldn't be good. Or just make an evil campaign or have a campaign were a sneaky evil character fits in with non-evil characters.

The one time I play the class it was pretty fun.

hamishspence
2010-08-17, 07:01 AM
The main reason was, people who took the PRC were assumed to have such a lack of respect for life, that they were willing to murder someone for no other reason than to take the class (not because they were, say, a villain that needed to be killed"

4E does allow for good and LG assassins in Dragon Annual- but only ones doing it for reasons other than profit. To deal with a villain that can't be dealt with any other way, for example.

Murder for profit is still seen as evil in that, just as in 3.5.

That said, if you're playing an Evil, or dark-edged Neutral, campaign, unmodified assassins can work fine- its only when the assassin has to adventure alongside strongly Good characters that it's a real problem.

zaulsiin
2010-08-17, 07:10 AM
If you want to play a non-evil assassin, there's always The Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a). It's basically identical to the Assassin, but is restricted to "non-chaotic" instead of "evil". Was originally posted as an April Fool's thing, I think, but it still works.

hamishspence
2010-08-17, 07:21 AM
I think there's quite a few homebrew class versions (rather than PRC versions) on this site somewhere.

One example:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163055&highlight=Assassin

DemLep
2010-08-17, 07:23 AM
And still does no good for my CG sniper :smalltongue:
Eat missiles from nowhere BBEG!!

true_shinken
2010-08-17, 07:55 AM
I never understood why assassins couldn't be good.

Because you need to murder someone to become an assassin. Killing an innocent person just so you gain power is an evil act.
Killing someone for money is also an evil act.
Assassins as written are evil. If you change the fluff, then you could change the requirements, but as written they are evil, no questions asked.

hamishspence
2010-08-17, 07:58 AM
There are some other PRCs that get Death Attack.

If it's the spell list- that's harder. I think there's an elven PRC in Champions of Ruin which, despite the book being mostly villain-centric, does not have an alignment restriction, and has some assassin-ish spells.

true_shinken
2010-08-17, 08:06 AM
There are some other PRCs that get Death Attack.

If it's the spell list- that's harder. I think there's an elven PRC in Champions of Ruin which, despite the book being mostly villain-centric, does not have an alignment restriction, and has some assassin-ish spells.

There is also Slayer of Domiel.

hamishspence
2010-08-17, 08:07 AM
Which has to be LG- so not good for the CG elven sniper either.

Does Complete Warrior have a PRC with Death Attack- something like Darkstalker Or am I thinking of something else?

DemLep
2010-08-17, 08:21 AM
Because you need to murder someone to become an assassin. Killing an innocent person just so you gain power is an evil act.
Killing someone for money is also an evil act.
Assassins as written are evil. If you change the fluff, then you could change the requirements, but as written they are evil, no questions asked.

The Special of killing somone for no reason other than join the assassins makes no sense. Unless it's going to give me ties to an evil organization, why other than the reason of calling them evil must you do this? How does it make you an assassin?


Which has to be LG- so not good for the CG elven sniper either.

Does Complete Warrior have a PRC with Death Attack- something like Darkstalker Or am I thinking of something else?

Darkwood Stalker.Must be Elf. Stupid Elves.

ZiggZagg
2010-08-17, 08:21 AM
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/assassin

There's the Assassin class redone for Pathfinder. I think it is a little, as it focuses more on the Death Attack portion, but it does give up the spell list, which depending on the build or flavor you are looking for, may or may not work for you

DemLep
2010-08-17, 08:23 AM
I hear PF is essentially 3.5 would there need to be any mechanic changes to port the class back to 3.5?

true_shinken
2010-08-17, 08:25 AM
The Special of killing somone for no reason other than join the assassins makes no sense. Unless it's going to give me ties to an evil organization, why other than the reason of calling them evil must you do this? How does it make you an assassin?
Only the assassins, as an organization, can train you to become an assassin. So you must join them in order to get the training. It's pretty clear in the class description. As I said, the assassin as written is a member of an assassin's guild. If you change the fluff, then maybe they won't be evil. Otherwise, they are evil. Simple as that,

Tyndmyr
2010-08-17, 08:29 AM
I hear PF is essentially 3.5 would there need to be any mechanic changes to port the class back to 3.5?

Skills operate slightly differently. Add 3 to the ranks of skills in prereqs. Done deal. Porting between systems isn't that hard.

Assassin is useful. Even if you don't want to go heavily into it, a one level dip gets you sneak attack progression, a death attack, poison use, and minor arcane casting. This is...really handy, especially considering you sacrifice essentially nothing to get in. Move silently? Hide? You were going to skill those up anyway. Four points in disguise? Hardly a waste.

DemLep
2010-08-17, 08:44 AM
I've always liked the class, just get few chance to use it since people get hung up on the whole evil thing. I look at assassin (in general) to be great stealth kills; assassins, ninjas, snipers and the like all fall under this. I try to stay away from oriental classes when it doesn't fit the setting though.

AslanCross
2010-08-17, 08:55 AM
The Assassin gets a great spell list if you have Spell Compendium.
Other than that, its primary class features don't really add much to a sneaky character. Death Attack's DC is rather easy to resist IIRC. (Despite being difficult to pull off)

Aroka
2010-08-17, 09:04 AM
Because you need to murder someone to become an assassin. Killing an innocent person just so you gain power is an evil act.
Killing someone for money is also an evil act.

But that's a nonsense requirement. Is killing an evil dictator and also making a profit and also joining a guild a bad thing? If it is, most adventurer PCs are evil - they go into dungeons to look for treasure, and kill things that gets annoyed at their poking around in their habitat.

Plus the notion that assassins have to work for pay is stupid - plenty of assassins are idealists. In fact, the original assassins were a group of religious extremists (they were a sect within a sect within a sect of Islam), not killers for hire, and assassin is regularly used to describe someone who kills for a political motive.

Greenish
2010-08-17, 09:18 AM
Plus the notion that assassins have to work for pay is stupidThe D&D assassin doesn't have to be paid to kill, almost the opposite - you can only join after killing someone without being paid to do it.

That said, I agree that the whole "all assassins must be members of the assassin's guild (regardless of whether the setting even has one*)" is silly, as is the "If you're so Evil, eat this kitten (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle6vgp6b47)" deal for joining.


*Think of Eberron. The Dragonmarked Houses jealously guard their monopolies, and assassination falls within the domain of Houses of Shadow, which recruit almost exclusively elves, and aren't even Evil as organizations. Are you really supposed to port over some generic flavourless assassin's guild?

DemLep
2010-08-17, 09:21 AM
Isn't there a feat which lets you increase range on your sneak attack? And would this transfer to death attack that normally can't be used at range?

Greenish
2010-08-17, 09:24 AM
Isn't there a feat which lets you increase range on your sneak attack? And would this transfer to death attack that normally can't be used at range?Crossbow Sniper increases your SA range to 60' with crossbows only. It doesn't affect Death Attack, but there's a spell (on Assassin list, too) that allows you to use Death Attack and Sneak Attack from 60' and gives you Darkvision for the same range, as long as you remain in the same place you cast it in. The duration is kinda shortish though.

Aroka
2010-08-17, 09:25 AM
Isn't there a feat which lets you increase range on your sneak attack? And would this transfer to death attack that normally can't be used at range?

It wouldn't, technically.

IIRC there's an assassin-type PrC in Champions of Ruin built around using a bow that gets Death Attack at 10th level and can use it at range ('course Death Attack pretty much sucks).

DemLep
2010-08-17, 09:26 AM
Ah thanks.
I'm thinking a Ranger/Assassin would be an interesting mix instead of the classic rogue/assassin.

Peregrine
2010-08-17, 09:31 AM
The Special of killing somone for no reason other than join the assassins makes no sense. Unless it's going to give me ties to an evil organization, why other than the reason of calling them evil must you do this? How does it make you an assassin?

Quite right. Assassins being evil because they have to kill someone to join the assassins is circular.

That said, I actually think the alignment restriction itself does make sense; I just interpret it differently. You're not just becoming "an assassin", you're joining "The Assassins", a death guild that really does comprise people who like to murder and figured out they could get paid for it.

(There are probably other "assassins" in the setting, but this guild may be to the fantasy world what the Hashishin were to the real world: the very origin of the word "assassin".)

That said, there's no reason not to refluff the class to something non-evil. If WotC had used the "adaptation" section (seen on most splatbook PrCs) at the time they wrote the DMG 3.5, I'm sure that would've been one of the suggestions.

DemLep
2010-08-17, 09:38 AM
Quite right. Assassins being evil because they have to kill someone to join the assassins is circular.

That said, I actually think the alignment restriction itself does make sense; I just interpret it differently. You're not just becoming "an assassin", you're joining "The Assassins", a death guild that really does comprise people who like to murder and figured out they could get paid for it.

(There are probably other "assassins" in the setting, but this guild may be to the fantasy world what the Hashishin were to the real world: the very origin of the word "assassin".)

That said, there's no reason not to refluff the class to something non-evil. If WotC had used the "adaptation" section (seen on most splatbook PrCs) at the time they wrote the DMG 3.5, I'm sure that would've been one of the suggestions.

It can always of coarse be houseruled out. I just never understood the point of the rule to begin with. Why make a guild out of a class and give no abilities for calling on the guild. It makes no sense. Sure an evil guild of assassins I get that. But I'm good at killing people, I mean good, and they never see it coming. Doesn't make you evil and would seem to me to be more on par what one is looking for in an assassin class.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-17, 10:20 AM
Assassin can be rather good with two points:
1) You have access to Spell Compendium
2) You don't ever try to use Death Attack unless you're on a solo sidequest.

It's playable with just 2) - since Rogue+Magic > Rogue, roughly a balanced trade against the Rogue Special Abilities you'd get.

Starbuck_II
2010-08-17, 10:22 AM
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/assassin

There's the Assassin class redone for Pathfinder. I think it is a little, as it focuses more on the Death Attack portion, but it does give up the spell list, which depending on the build or flavor you are looking for, may or may not work for you

Yeah and without spells, it kinda sucks.

The only good PF Assassin is Red Mantis Assassin, but most of their power is due to polymorph cheese.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-17, 10:52 AM
Ah thanks.
I'm thinking a Ranger/Assassin would be an interesting mix instead of the classic rogue/assassin.

Actually my favorite way of entering assassin is Ranger 2/Rogue 3/Assassin 10/something 5( rogue is perfectly good, but there are other options, maybe unseen seer, you may not gain more spellslots or other stuff but you can get other useful spells such as Hunters Eye or something along those lines.)

Tyndmyr
2010-08-17, 10:53 AM
Assassin can be rather good with two points:
1) You have access to Spell Compendium
2) You don't ever try to use Death Attack unless you're on a solo sidequest.


Death attack is a fine opener when you have surprise. Pre-combat rounds...why not study? Sure, the DC is low...but you could get lucky. Everyone rolls 1s. Plus, you still do sneak attack damage.

Greenish
2010-08-17, 10:58 AM
Pre-combat rounds...why not study?If you get pre-combat rounds, sure. This is, as Glyphstone alluded, easier when not traveling alongside a trigger-happy and heavily armed group of fellow adventurers.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-17, 11:06 AM
If you get pre-combat rounds, sure. This is, as Glyphstone alluded, easier when not traveling alongside a trigger-happy and heavily armed group of fellow adventurers.

I can vouch for this, the one time I convinced my DM to run an evil campaing I did my extra-sneaky assassin figuring since this was an assassination game that my party would comply with making sneaky characters, NO I got for party mates a Paladin of Tyranny in fullplate, a druken master and a a Necromancer.

Needless to say I was lucky to get one surprise round.

SurlySeraph
2010-08-17, 12:52 PM
Which has to be LG- so not good for the CG elven sniper either.

Does Complete Warrior have a PRC with Death Attack- something like Darkstalker Or am I thinking of something else?

Darkwood Stalker (only works on orcs) and Dark Hunter (an underground-focused guy. Low prereqs, full BAB, HiPS near stone walls, and Death Attack, but only 1d6 sneak attack).


It wouldn't, technically.

IIRC there's an assassin-type PrC in Champions of Ruin built around using a bow that gets Death Attack at 10th level and can use it at range ('course Death Attack pretty much sucks).

Justice of Weald and Woe, I think.

hamishspence
2010-08-17, 01:08 PM
Justice of Weald and Woe, I think.

Yup- I've checked and not only does it have no alignment restriction, but no race restriction, despite the fact that the organization is elf supremacist.

For an assassin-ish sniper that can be of any alignment and race, it seems ideal.

GreyMantle
2010-08-17, 03:38 PM
My favorite Assassin class is probably this one (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin_(3.5e_Class)). It's from the Dungeonomicon, is relatively balanced, and is pretty fun to play. The death attack functions more like a super sneak attack that can be used less frequently than an easy to make SoD, which I like. And it has no alignment restrictions.

FMArthur
2010-08-17, 04:17 PM
If all you want out of Assassin is its spells, the Chameleon PrC is way better than an Assassin at casting its own spells. :smalltongue:

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-17, 05:34 PM
My favorite Assassin class is probably this one (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin_(3.5e_Class)). It's from the Dungeonomicon, is relatively balanced, and is pretty fun to play. The death attack functions more like a super sneak attack that can be used less frequently than an easy to make SoD, which I like. And it has no alignment restrictions.

Umm balanced to what? the Tome series? IIRC the tome series is designed to bring non full casters up to to Full Casters.

Starbuck_II
2010-08-17, 09:25 PM
If all you want out of Assassin is its spells, the Chameleon PrC is way better than an Assassin at casting its own spells. :smalltongue:

Drawback not Spontaneous, but yes it does work. Wow, never noticed you choose your spell-list from from all arcane classes.

true_shinken
2010-08-18, 10:24 AM
Drawback not Spontaneous, but yes it does work. Wow, never noticed you choose your spell-list from from all arcane classes.

You still need to get the spells on your spellbook. Even with Extra Spell, each spell is gonna take you a whole day. Kinda time-consuming to get the whole assassin list.

DragoonWraith
2010-08-18, 10:52 AM
Umm balanced to what? the Tome series? IIRC the tome series is designed to bring non full casters up to to Full Casters.
Sort of, but this falls far short. +22d6 damage every other round looks remarkably like +11d6 damage every round, and the restrictions on Death Attack are massively tougher than Sneak Attack (no flanking, need to spend a round studying). The spells are nice, and HiPS, Uncanny Dodge, etc, are pretty sweet, but this is not a full-caster-equivalent class. This is Tier-3, I'd guess - a high-end Tier 3, maybe, but Tier 3. I'm not even sure it's all that high in Tier 3.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-18, 11:00 AM
Sort of, but this falls far short. +22d6 damage every other round looks remarkably like +11d6 damage every round, and the restrictions on Death Attack are massively tougher than Sneak Attack (no flanking, need to spend a round studying). The spells are nice, and HiPS, Uncanny Dodge, etc, are pretty sweet, but this is not a full-caster-equivalent class. This is Tier-3, I'd guess - a high-end Tier 3, maybe, but Tier 3. I'm not even sure it's all that high in Tier 3.

I admit that I just glanced at the table instead of just reading the whole class, I will read in more detail later today.

FMArthur
2010-08-18, 11:06 AM
Sort of, but this falls far short. +22d6 damage every other round looks remarkably like +11d6 damage every round, and the restrictions on Death Attack are massively tougher than Sneak Attack (no flanking, need to spend a round studying). The spells are nice, and HiPS, Uncanny Dodge, etc, are pretty sweet, but this is not a full-caster-equivalent class. This is Tier-3, I'd guess - a high-end Tier 3, maybe, but Tier 3. I'm not even sure it's all that high in Tier 3.

Yeah, I reacted like WTFIMBA the first time I saw it, but this class is actually just Battle Sorceror Junior. That Death Attack is nearly useless; an enemy that is going to be flat-footed for two turns in a row could be killed by any Rogue or just a PA Barbarian anyway, but you have to ensure this nearly-impossible requirement is met just to break even in combat. It's more likely to happen if you're initiating combat this way, but you pretty much have to be on your own and killing people from the shadows, which isn't happening in a dungeon or in a party that isn't interested in just watching you play. Poison is a terrible waste of time and resources.

And that's all there is in the class besides being a rotten Battle Sorceror. :smallconfused:

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-18, 11:26 AM
Upon a more extensive reading, I have to agree that it is not as OP as I first believed. Though I am not sure my DM would allow it, maybe If I offered to reduce the SA to rogue progression.

GreyMantle
2010-08-18, 08:02 PM
Upon a more extensive reading, I have to agree that it is not as OP as I first believed. Though I am not sure my DM would allow it, maybe If I offered to reduce the SA to rogue progression.

Are you talking about the Tome Assassin I linked? Because why in god's name would want to give it the rogue's sneak attack progression? The Assassin does not have SA, it has death attack. Death Attack is similar but still far from identical to SA. Giving DA the SA progression would be...not good. Like, at all. The whole point is that you deal damage less often, but you do more when you actually get to do your death attack.

(And, if your DM is so concerned, you really could just play a rogue, take mostly UMD and stealth-related skills, and just call yourself an assassin.)

DragoonWraith
2010-08-18, 08:06 PM
The Death Attack is really bad, though.

Greenish
2010-08-18, 08:41 PM
The Death Attack is really bad, though.You mean the homebrew one or the official one? The homebrew one is really bad design, the official just too weak to deserve the hoops you'll have to jump through.

Ormur
2010-08-19, 01:23 AM
A player in my campaign just used his death attack for the first time. He used the, usually advised against, tactic of waiting out three turns of battle (while invisible) just to deliver the final blow. The battle at least lasted long enough for him to do it and it wasn't close enough to threaten the other party member's lives either. However when he finally appeared behind the enemy in the fourth round, she succeed on the death attack DC but died because of the sneak attack damage, which was a lot. So he would have been better of just sneak attacking her in the first round.

I think the spells and a possibly faster sneak attack progression are the best things about the class (if you enter it after an odd rogue level).

Gahrer
2010-08-19, 05:57 AM
Isn't there a feat which lets you increase range on your sneak attack? And would this transfer to death attack that normally can't be used at range?

Sniper Shot allows sneak attack at any range, Snipers Eye allows death attack at range. (Both from spell compendium.) Since death attack looks like a enhanced sneak attack to me I allowed the assassin player in my campaign to use death attack at any range with that combo.

Overall the class is actually really nice. The spells are really nice (with spell compendium) - Wraith strike, for example, is a swift action and makes all your attacks touch attacks for one round. Neat to make those TWF-attacks with huge penalties hit.

My assassin player focused a lot on int and managed to kill some casters with death attack, but overall it isn't very awesome. However, he made up a feat that allowed him to trade sneak attack dice for death attack DC at a 1:1 ratio. That made the ability a LOT better in the late game. (Campaign ended on level 18.)
What I hadn't considered when I allowed the feat was Telling Blow he had taken earlier (add sneak attack on crits). Thus, the assassin was able to do double sneak attack damage if he critted with a sneak attack as I ruled it. Telling Blow plus his homebrewed feat plus his uncanny ability to score crits on almost all important deathattacks made for DC:s over 40. Ouch. :smalltongue:

Curmudgeon
2010-08-19, 06:10 AM
The biggest problem with Assassin or most any other prestige class is that it's devoid of options. There are plenty of Alternative Class Features (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872054/Alternative_Class_Features_III) for core classes, but nothing for even the core PrCs. Ideally you'd be able to swap death attack for something else, or at least boost it to where it's useful. But you're basically left with only a couple of feats: Ability Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#abilityFocus) and then, after a long wait, Improved Death Attack [Epic] (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedDeathAttack).

If you're going to try the class, I suggest talking with your DM about using Quick Reconnoiter to maintain your death attack study of a target while doing other things.

Starbuck_II
2010-08-19, 09:02 AM
You mean the homebrew one or the official one? The homebrew one is really bad design, the official just too weak to deserve the hoops you'll have to jump through.

You can cast a swift spell so you don't need to study target, ignore all concealment (concealment blocks sneak attack), auto-grant sneak attack (even if not denied dex/flanked), etc.

Examples:
1st:
Critical Strike:
3rd:
Vital Strike:
4th level spell:
Death Sight

I suggest scrolls/wands personally (Wand bracer?).

Greenish
2010-08-19, 09:06 AM
You can cast a swift spellWell yeah, there are some swift actions you can do, but I'm still not a fan of "use fullround action every other turn to do nothing". It's not fun.

Awnetu
2010-08-19, 12:02 PM
I recommend that if you have plans to do Death Attack, you hit assassin as early as possible. The DC is 10 + Assassin Level + Int mod, so if you start off later, your going to find yourself with one terrible Death Attack.

Talk your DM into Sniper's Eye if you can. (Not all campaigns allow spells from spell compendium) It lets you make death attacks from range.

The only feat if I recall correctly that boosts its DC is from the Epic Level Handbook, and thats only +2 dc for every time you take it.

Starbuck_II
2010-08-19, 12:16 PM
I recommend that if you have plans to do Death Attack, you hit assassin as early as possible. The DC is 10 + Assassin Level + Int mod, so if you start off later, your going to find yourself with one terrible Death Attack.

Talk your DM into Sniper's Eye if you can. (Not all campaigns allow spells from spell compendium) It lets you make death attacks from range.

The only feat if I recall correctly that boosts its DC is from the Epic Level Handbook, and thats only +2 dc for every time you take it.

Ability Focus also adds +2.
Greenish:


Well yeah, there are some swift actions you can do, but I'm still not a fan of "use fullround action every other turn to do nothing". It's not fun.

I'm confused why are you doing nothing?

Greenish
2010-08-19, 12:41 PM
I'm confused why are you doing nothing?To "reload" the Death Attack, though now that I look at it again it requires the target to have dex to AC while reloading, so meh.

[Edit]: Wait, are you talking about the official one or the homebrew?

true_shinken
2010-08-20, 09:35 AM
The biggest problem with Assassin or most any other prestige class is that it's devoid of options.

Well, Assassin has a lot more options than most other prestige classes, including an ACF - the psionic assassin.
Also, there is a weapon that boosts death attack. I believe it is in the DMG, even.

Malbordeus
2010-08-20, 10:06 AM
I always feel that high strength/BAB assasins are fun. so things like levels of duskblade/hexblade (with levels in ranger for skillz) possibly being an orc or goliath and having Awsome Blow/or powerattack... Orc Paragon? if your going to assasinate elvses.

then use a scythe or greataxe as your melee weapon and splatter the battlefield?

your dm might not even have an issue with the evil part, you can always be evil(light) and just do the murders to further your own goals after the one necessary to qualify for the class.

Curmudgeon
2010-08-20, 10:31 AM
Well, Assassin has a lot more options than most other prestige classes, including an ACF - the psionic assassin.
That's not an alternative class feature; it's a completely different class.

Also, there is a weapon that boosts death attack. I believe it is in the DMG, even. You mean this?

Assassin’s Dagger

This wicked-looking, curved +2 dagger provides a +1 bonus to the DC of a Fortitude save forced by the death attack of an assassin. Please note that's "the death attack of an Assassin", and not the death attack of any other class ─ including the death attack of a Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d), for instance.

DragoonWraith
2010-08-20, 10:44 AM
Curmudgeon - I know you're a huge proponent of RAW and everything, but would you seriously tell a player who was using the Psychic Assassin that he couldn't use that?

Curmudgeon
2010-08-20, 10:50 AM
Curmudgeon - I know you're a huge proponent of RAW and everything, but would you seriously tell a player who was using the Psychic Assassin that he couldn't use that?
No, but I'd call it out as an explicit addition to my short list of house rules. I do the same with great crossbows, because all the crossbow feats are also needlessly specific.
Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, or heavy) I let any mention of "heavy crossbow" in a feat or weapon special ability also cover great crossbows.

Flickerdart
2010-08-20, 11:06 AM
As long as we're discussing homebrew, I made an assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149439) too, with a death attack that doesn't suck.

true_shinken
2010-08-20, 11:51 AM
That's not an alternative class feature; it's a completely different class.
I'm not talking about the Mind's Eye's Psychic Assassin.
I'm talking about Secrets of Sarlona's Psionic Assassin.

Flickerdart
2010-08-20, 12:15 PM
I'm not talking about the Mind's Eye's Psychic Assassin.
I'm talking about Secrets of Sarlona's Psionic Assassin.
Someone should mail WotC a thesaurus.

hamishspence
2010-08-20, 12:22 PM
Paizo and WoTC have been known to use the same name for very different classes.

Dragon Magazine 310- Avenger (CG paladin variant)
WOTC online- Avenger (Lawful assassin variant)

Dragon Magazine 310- Incarnate (N paladin variant)
Magic of Incarnum- Incarnate- (new class with new magic system)

Flickerdart
2010-08-20, 12:33 PM
Beguiler - PHBII casting class
Beguiler - Shining South monster race

There's also incarnate, the psionic version of permanency.

In fact, this needs a thread... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9185142)