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pife
2010-08-17, 10:40 AM
DISCLAIMER** This post is entirely too long, too vague, and generally clouds the issue I am trying to clear up. In short, if it weren't my first post ever, I might be really mad at myself.


Okay, so consider this a social experiment. I am one of those lurkers who loves to read posts, but never actually posts anything myself. So, the social experiment is this; Knowing that I'm looking for "constructive" advice, and I'm patently NOT looking for recommendations for alternate games, how many friendly, non-snarky responses can I get about campaign ideas?

I'm wanting to run an Old World of Darkness Werewolf game for my wife and son. (Well, lets be honest, my son wants to play a Werewolf game, so we're indulging him). I've been gaming for 25 years, mostly DnD 1-2-3-3.5-4. I've played in Vampire games a number of times, but I've never run a WoD game.

Basic campaign concepts:
*A full pack of (5) Children of Gaia (each auspice represented).
*PG/PG-13 content required (limiting, but my son doesn't need to be hearing about cracking down on child porn rings, or demonic impregnations, or ritual disembowelments.
*Pack Alpha (the Ahroun, my wife) is a tough urban 19 y/o, heart of gold, all that.. Wanted to be in the FBI, was heavily involved in the Neighborhood Watch (you can't make this stuff up, lol). Her goal for the pack.. To combat all evil she runs across, large and small
*Pack Totem: Raccoon- So being sneaky and curious will provide lots of opportunities for trouble.

Geographic Location is a very fluid concept atm.. Not Africa, not Asia. Sept is dominated by CoG, but caern is open to visitors. Other Fera are possible as NPC's.

BBEG- A very well hidden Settite who is pulling all kinds of strings with numerous red herrings leading up to him. (I even want his followers to be misled about who/what he is). I'm thinking he's had centuries to come up with multiple layers of influence, and he holds the "punk cards" of many Elders (Garou and Kindred) throughout the area

Since my wife has been so disparaging of the Ratkin in conversations, I feel the need to add them to the story as some sort of Deus ex machina saviors for one of those "Holy Gaia we're gonna die"!! moments..

Finally, I'm wanting to have a Mage of low/middling power, but street-savvy, knows the way the world is (sort of). He will be on a quest that will parallel the pack's, and they will run into/see him from time to time. I'm even hoping that they take him for a bad guy (but hope they stop short of shredding him, because he's NOT one).

Okay, that's a lot of gunk, but.. Dangit, I don't have a story.. I've been wracking my brain and tossing out ideas left and right.. I think it's because I'm nervous about finally running a WoD game, and it being my sons first gaming experience.

So, looking for simple concepts (nothing epic), that don't require too much thinking to get them started.. (And metagaming will be right out, because they don't know what metagaming IS, thank God) I only added the flavor above because in tossing out various plans for stories, these are the elements I liked and kept.

Thanks for any ideas you might have.
**Edit: Not necessarily looking for ideas incorporating my Ratkin, mage, or Settite issues, just mentioning them to point out that the game will be incorporating different types of antagonists/protagonists.

Psyx
2010-08-17, 10:59 AM
I'd ponder where you're going to set it. Or just where you're globetrotting.

Now normally I'm a big fan of 'run what you know' and basing somewhere that you are familiar with so you can go off-piste. However; adding your son makes it potentially an interesting learning experience.

What cultures and nations are you familiar with, or that you'd like your son to learn more about?

You have a really good opportunity to really open a young mind to the world here, and bring to their attention a lot of global issues.

Now I know that OWoDWW can be very tree-huggy, but that's an important issue these days.

If there's a Settite, then there obviously needs to be a Silent Strider who can impart some useful but rather biased knowledge before being horribly killed, just as the players are getting attached.

Ratkin mad inventor types are fun. Maybe they have some device of Mcguffin that the party need to use.

pife
2010-08-17, 11:10 AM
Well, as for setting, a couple of ideas I have..

A hidden Aztec (or similar) temple

The subterranean remains of a pre-Aborigine Austrailian culture (alien and advanced, no ray guns or anything, just architectural and cultural advancement

Getting in the middle of (or being entangled in) a Camarilla assault to retake a thoroughly entrenched Sabbat city (New York, L.A., Mexico City come to mind- Mexico City could lead into the Aztec plot tree, but that's just a thought

As far as what concepts I'd like to instill in my son, I'd love to teach him that just because people are different than you (The Ratkin, a friendly-ish Gangrel, etc) that doesn't make them evil, stupid or fearsome. I'd also like to teach him to work together as a team (work smarter, not harder), and to think problems through rather than just react. And finally, I want to teach him that even though the government (in this case the septs Elders, or even the Garou Nation as a whole) is sometimes misguided, and occasionally they're dead wrong, but they're still to be respected and sometimes, just sometimes, it's YOU that's wrong. (Want to instill that "take responsibility for your own actions, admit when you're wrong kind of thing)..

And I'm loving the Ratkin Mad Scientist thing!!

mint
2010-08-17, 11:11 AM
black spiral square-dancers, you have to fight them.

KillianHawkeye
2010-08-17, 03:25 PM
black spiral square-dancers, you have to fight them.

The fact that they can somehow dance in a square and along a spiral at the same time is merely proof of their insanity and depravity. :smallbiggrin:

SurlySeraph
2010-08-17, 04:12 PM
black spiral square-dancers, you have to fight them.

Pentex is doing bad things. Stop them.

Reluctance
2010-08-17, 04:31 PM
Stop. Look at your notes. Look at your books. Look at your son. It sounds like you're having trouble because you want to throw in everything possible, when it also sounds like you're putting together a campaign for a kid. When running for children, short and simple arcs are ideal.

You pick the oWoD game that's about Captain Planet vs. the forces of villainy, pollution and general ickiness, and you try to complicate it with a supernatural hodgepodge? Banes make wonderful villains because you can beat up on bad guys in full on video game style, while the real world can be run as Gotham City; sure, things are dark and people are grouchy, but you don't kill actual humans and they don't do the really "mature themes" stuff.

See if you can draft another person or two. Two-person games tend to lack certain intraparty dynamics. It might work if your wife is happy being the sidekick to your son's main character, essentially making this a solo+ game, but otherwise you're missing out on a big chunk of what makes this a fun social exercise.

And for the plot, start with a small setting and a simple introduction. You're a happy, shiny, tree-huggy werewolf. The minions of badness are doing bad things. Find them and stop them. You can introduce the whole rest of the oWoD after everybody - yourself included - has gotten comfortable with the basics.

Jornophelanthas
2010-08-17, 05:54 PM
It sounds like you have no plot, but you do have the basics of a setting and a decent sense for the dramatic. However, these should breed story ideas on its own. All you need is to give each major NPC his or her own agenda (e.g. the sept elders, that one sept elder who is at odds with the rest, the mage, the BBEG, that other pack the players run into regularly). This can be as simple as "I want to become a Garou hero," or "I want to make money by selling these clothes", but it can also be more complex and underhanded, such as "I will not let anyone steal my glory by defeating the big monster first," or "I want to create a mob of psychopathic killers by selling these tainted clothes that will turn their wearers insane." The players themselves should also gradually develop their own goals as the story progresses.

If you have these NPC agendas in place, then any NPC entering a scene with the players will have an attitude towards the players based on his/her personal goals and his/her perception of the players' goals. If these agendas clash with what the players want, you have conflict. If multiple NPCs with conflicting agendas are present, with the players in the middle, you can have many different outcomes. The fun part is that once you have such a web of goals and agendas, all you have to do is think what would be a logical next step for each major NPC, and use a suitable one of these as a story hook for the players' next adventure. Also note that while many actions by NPCs may happen offscreen, the players may sooner or later run into any consequences of these actions, which results in another story hook.

To start things up, it generally helps to use a McGuffin, i.e. an object or person (or place) that multiple parties are interested in for any number of reasons. Have one of these parties send the players in, and have one or two other parties take their own measures. No matter who ends up with the prize, the players will gain allies and enemies. The loser(s) may try to get the McGuffin back at a later time. The allies may ask for the players' help in the future, while the enemies may be out for revenge.

However, don't overcomplicate things beyond your own ability to stay on top and maintain continuity and the players' abilities to keep track of it all. Start out simple, with two or three agendas (one of which the players work for), and gradually introduce more NPCs (and their respective agendas) as required. Generally, don't introduce something new if something that is already there can serve the same purpose, or if the new element threatens your continuity. ("You Ratkin don't like intruders? Then why didn't we see you during our previous nine visits to this place?")

I hope this helps. It turned out quite long, so I'll stop now.

Umael
2010-08-17, 06:24 PM
Important question - how old is your son?

pife
2010-08-18, 11:03 AM
Wow, great responses folks, please keep em coming!!

To respond, my son is 8. I know, I know, a bit young, and I agree.. He's just been going INSANE watching his sisters and mother play DnD with me. So, we wrapped up the DnD campaign, and he wanted to be a Werewolf.. His sisters didn't want to be giant hairy slobbering dogs. (they say they'll wait for the next game, but I'm pretty sure they're just terrified of playing with their little brother). So, unless/until I can make the girls jealous of the great fun we're having in Garou-land, I won't be able to/want to add more players.. Keeping it strictly family for this game.

As far as a plot, you're absolutely right!! That's been my problem, I keep conceiving and trashing ideas, so I reached out to the Playground for help.. The idea I've been tossing around for a MacGuffin involved fetishes in the shape of Chess Pieces (Kings, specifically). They were not crafted by Garou, but rather centuries ago a Mage Dreamwalker who received information from an Incarna of Nature telling him to craft them, and hide them in places of hidden power (potential future caern sites). Each piece represents the progenitor of a Garou tribe (I'm still tweaking this idea), and will grant the owner (and/or owners sept/totem/etc) a significant power with which to fight the Wyrm (or Weaver). An old prophecy will finally make sense when x event occurs, causing y effect, caused by z group <the party, probably in an accidental and altogether unpleasant kind of way> (haven't figured that part out yet) Modern Mages will be after the pieces, as will the Garou (obviously), as will the BSD, creating competition and a sense of urgency.

All that being said, "Reluctance" is dead on the money.. This is a campaign that is going to revolve around an 8 year old.. So, for his benefit, I'm going to keep the concepts simple, turning it into a scavenger hunt.. Their best bet will be to talk to the spirits (nice animal ghosts, as he refers to them), who will keep giving them hints (and side quests) in order to track down each successive piece. Some of the more complicated plot points are there for the benefit of my wife, who is slightly more discerning than "is it a monster? I want to kill it with my claws".. (Plus, I'm hoping that my daughters get over their distaste at being "wet dogs".. They're 14 and 12, so they would be better able to absorb some of the more detailed concepts). More to come, your advice and insight are a great help!!

Umael
2010-08-18, 11:19 AM
...

If you get this to work, I might have to see about recruiting my own kids into a game...

pife
2010-08-18, 11:35 AM
Well, my 12 and 14 year old daughters have been playing for about 2 years.. As long as there's either interesting descriptions or lots of stuff to fight, they're pretty into it. They're not so big on the whole "thinking" thing though.. They WANT to be railroaded, they don't want to forge their own path. I'll beat that out of them eventually..

Beatings will continue until morale improves!!

Umael
2010-08-18, 12:50 PM
Well, one of the players in our gaming group has brought his 15-year-old daughter (actually, she might be 16 now). She's one of our favorite players now; apparently, she's out there, corrupting her friends from schooland runnnig/playing in her own games.

The thing is, even one year can mean a tremendous amount of difference in the ability of a child to comprehend a storyline, understand the details of the game, and deal with more mature material.

That all said... how is your son at being "railroaded"?

(For that matter, how is your wife?)

pife
2010-08-18, 01:49 PM
Haha.. Good question Umael.. One of the biggest problems we have in our games is that my wife (and daughters) love having the story unfold around them, but they don't like putting forth much effort to get to it. What I mean is.. I could tell them that a mystical toxin was put in the well of the town, poisoning all of the townsfolk.

Now, me, if I were playing, might perform different divinations at the site, schmooze around the town buying drinks and trying to figure out who the movers and shakers are in town, and who might want it to be harmed, who stands to gain from the death of the townsfolk, I would determine what KIND of poison was used, and how it was administered. From that I would try to determine where it came from. Can the local theives guild be "persuaded" to tell me if someone has recently purchased that toxin.. Stuff like that.

My wife and daughters would spend about 6 real time hours going to funerals, caring for the pets of the deceased, and telling me how bad it sucks that "I" killed everyone in a town. and going to the local mayor/noble and expect to be TOLD who to go after. If I don't give this information to them, they'll ask my in-group NPC for the answers. If he doesn't have the answer, they're stumped, lol.

But, on the up side, my wife has started to "get it", and is starting to grow as a player. She's starting to figure out the questions to ask, and the details to listen for (because they're normally there)..

My son.. Heck, I'm pretty sure he's going to be railroading ME.. He's used to just using his imagination for all of his games, where he makes all the rules up as he goes, lol. This is going to be a little different for him. But, he's asked some extremely interesting questions pertaining to werewolves, and I'm seeing a spark of natural roleplayer in him.

But, I'm wanting to give as much content as possible, without causing nightmares. So I'm not going to be fixating on the frothy yet bloody drool sliding down the roaring Ahroun's chin, or the frenzied and frenetic cavortions of the sweaty and lithe bodies of the cage dancers at the local Succubus Club.. Less visceral on the descriptions, but I'll try to make up for that with a slightly more cartoonish style of describing things that still gets the point across, but doesn't overload him. (And I mean Smurfs, not Cow and Chicken style of "cartoonish"..

Satyr
2010-08-18, 01:49 PM
I am currently running a WtA campaign heavily on old action series, (McGyver, A-Team, Renegade, Dukes of Hazard...) with large explosions a simple, episodic stories - every session works as one episode and a story closed in itself, there is an intro music and credits at the end.
I think this very simple approach makes easier for children to follow.
I would probably try and create a Robin Hood style - campaign, perhaps with a "nomadic" pack that travels from place to place and help people who have problems - something like detectives, helpers for endangered caerns, helping the helpless and so on.

Reluctance
2010-08-18, 01:59 PM
I could give you pointers on enticing your girls. If they like hippie new agey stuff, play that up. If they have other animal preferences, that's what other fera are for. But the underlying issue is probably much more deep-seated; the things that an eight year old would enjoy will seem painfully childish to them. Still, if your son has any geeky best friends and you're not in the gaming closet, bringing one of them in could easily make it much more fun for your son, not to mention getting someone else into the hobby.

Let me strongly suggest flipping through both nWoD stuff as well as non-WoD WW material. oWoD combat is widely acknowleged as being slow and messy, two things that go poorly with younger children. Crib rules freely to make things faster and simpler at the table. Along those lines, if you can swing it, simplify his character sheet. "Gnosis" and "primal urge" are just so many funny sounds to most kids that age.

Otherwise, best of luck to you, and let me say how jealous I am that you can get full-family geekery going on.

Jornophelanthas
2010-08-18, 02:42 PM
If you are preparing a story for an eight-year-old, I foresee a number of potential problems you need to overcome in order to make it work. Personally, I would be daunted by such obstacles and instead choose a game system and story with a lower threshold, such as D&D. Feel free to disagree.

1. The World of Darkness is at its core a horror setting for mature players. While Werewolf is an action game, horror is never far below the surface. Your daughters are right: Werewolves are terrifying, slobbering monsters with violent urges they can't fully control. If you want to make this suitable for your son, you have a big challenge in downplaying the horror elements in Werewolf: the Apocalypse, without losing the setting's inherent character. If you don't do it enough, it might cause nightmares. If you overdo it, though, the setting will no longer make sense. It's a balancing act.

2. While, yes, railroading works best for (very) young players, in my opinion the World of Darkness (whether old or new) is not a game system really suitable for railroading, but offers many handholds for a more sandbox game instead. Still, Werewolf: the Apocalypse is the WoD system that is most lenient to such an approach and it could therefore work.

3. I believe you have too story elements going on already. In order to keep a young child's attention, my advice would be to tone down the number of different agendas and notable NPCs.

If you are railroading, you don't need a great number of different factions interacting with the players, because the relatively few options you give them (compared to a more sandbox game) is not worth the complexity. Additionally, to keep things moving, you don't want to spend too many scenes "just talking" and reducing the number of NPCs is a good fix for that.

If you have a general idea for a McGuffin, then my suggestion would be the following forces:
- the players and the Garou elder(s) who send them after the McGuffin
- the Mage who planted the McGuffin (perhaps he's not dead?)
- one rival for the McGuffin from the Wyrm
- one rival for the McGuffin not of the Wyrm (either Mages, Ratkin or another Garou pack / tribe)
- one or two potential allies (e.g. spirits, that one Mage you mentioned)
And still only introduce these one at a time.

I would advise against the following:
- Using too many different Fera, each with their own philosophy. This becomes confusing fast.
- Having Mages attempt to explain their Magick or their Traditions. This is even more confusing than using too many Fera.
- Using all thirteen Garou tribes. Starting out with only Children of Gaia is a neat idea.
- If the BBEG is a Vampire, don't use any other Vampires. For impact.
- The Wyrm biting its own tail, i.e. Black Spiral Dancers fighting Fomori fighting Vampires. Unless you want to make this the focus of a story.

By all means, you can use a single Corax or Bastet as a superficial contact, or have a pack of Ratkin be deus ex machina, but leave the players in the dark about such an NPC's cosmic role or philosophy.

In general, though, it would be best to outline each faction as clearly as possible. This can be done by making both the Wyrm and Garou Nation (and perhaps even the Spirit World) appear as monolithic entities. Once your players are familiar with these concepts, you can slowly add some nuance, according to your story needs.

Again, this became too long. I hope some of the above can be of use to you.

Final note:
If you are familiar with the Harry Potter books, I would suggest (re-)reading the first book. At heart, it's a mystery novel with a very complex storyline for the discerning readers, but it offers plenty of action, adventure and riddles for the younger readers to enjoy, even though these may not fully "get" the mystery plot. Such a double-tiered story structure might be an example for the campaign you're building.

Dingle
2010-08-18, 06:29 PM
Considering the 8 yr old, you could always try the saturday morning tv show method of foiling the plans of the bbeg, but they'd need to fit into some larger and more dastardly plot to keep others interested.
e.g. illegal nuclear waste dumping leads to using nuclear power to unearth sealed evilness (bane)

I'm chatting to my werewolf ST on an IM.
My werewolf ST says:
"if the player is new, the best thing you can do is run an introductory game. run him through his first change, introduce him to his tribe, run his rite of passage. that is a great way to start."
and:
"expose a greedy corporation dumping toxic waste in unsafe areas.
that seems family friendly"
and:
"he could even be the owner of the corporation
which in itself is a subsidiary of pentex. wouldn't be the first time pentex has hired vampires
it could start as the boy's rite of passage, find out who's dumping the waste, and it could lead him to the corporation. he exposes them, pisses off the vampire, and suddenly he's opened a whole can of worms(?) on himself"
and:
"anyway, you should tell him all this, and more if he reads the storyteller's guide :P"

Kingboy
2010-08-18, 07:26 PM
Considering the 8 yr old, you could always try the saturday morning tv show method of foiling the plans of the bbeg, but they'd need to fit into some larger and more dastardly plot to keep others interested.

Hmm, now there's a part of my mind that wants to dig up my old WW books and figure out a way to use them to run a Gargoyles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargoyles_%28TV_series%29) campaign. Large angry creatures doing good to thwart the machinations of the Big Bad's Xanatos Gambit (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosGambit)—the essential definition of which involves plots and schemes that, even if foiled by the protagonists works to further the Bigger Picture—in a Saturday Morning idiom will do that. :)

As for the Werewolf campaign...

I am curious as to what sort of character your son will be playing (other than tribe, which we all know). I ask only because the comment about "nice animal ghosts" makes me wonder if someone of this age and temperament might not be an ideal choice to be a lupus character, something that I have seen many adult players have a very hard time with, mostly because of a certain amount of "growing up" makes the mindset hard to grasp, even amongst role-players.

pife
2010-08-18, 09:52 PM
Actually, I was hoping he'd go lupus as well. He's far more instinctive and reactionary than he is thoughtful and reserved.. I thought he'd make a great lupus.. (And I chose his merits and flaws for him, based on his personality.. Daredevil, Overconfident, Common Sense (I had to throw him a bone there), etc. He's going to roleplay that character naturally, and at least Daredevil and Common Sense got him something in return, and Overconfident at least got him a point or two.. But, after due consideration on his part (the deciding factor was that his natural form is Crinos, so he gets to sleep that way, lol), he chose to be a metis Ragabash. With no tail. And I'm fairly certain he chose to have no tail so it wouldn't distract him and he wouldn't chase it.. See.. Definitely lupus material, lol.

Jornophelanthas
2010-08-19, 05:43 AM
Are you sure Metis is the way to go?

Because, for one, Metis are looked down on by Garou in general, being regarded as freaks of nature. Less so by Children of Gaia, but they still look on them with pity. Even if a Metis may rise in the ranks like any other Garou, they will never be regarded as full equals by others. Are you ready to expose your son to discrimination and bigotry, and the receiving end no less? You may have to if you introduce any other tribe.

Secondly, Metis characters are the result of sexual perversions. While it is possible to go the way of "being Metis means your mommy and daddy are both werewolves", there is still the fact that Metis are deformed. The "no tail" deformity should not be seen as missing a useless body part that we humans don't have anyway, but rather as a chronic lower back injury that makes it hard to communicate through body language (which is part of Garou speech patterns). Additionally, Metis are often bullied and ridiculed because of their deformities (see the above point).

Finally, there is the character's backstory to contend with. What happened to the character's parents? Are they alive? Killed in action? Executed or banished for their transgression? Is your wife playing one of the parents? If so, will her character be treated differently because of the shame?

It can be very hard to work these things into the story in a way that does not make a child player feel unwanted or unappreciated. Because a Metis can never truly overcome the stigma of being Metis in a society as set in its ways as the Garou nation. At the very least, Metis characters lose their innocence very early in life.

pife
2010-08-19, 07:21 AM
Jornophelanthas, you are SCARY good at this.. As far as the metis, you are absolutely right, just as you've been with every point you've made so far.. As far as blending the savage horror of WoD with the interpretative powers of an 8 year old, I've been leaning toward an oversimplification. Like you said, "Mommy and Daddy are werewolves", but I don't want to go into the whole "sexual perversion" aspect, even though that's exactly what it is. Lucky for me, 8 year olds (for better or worse) will usually take what they're given as far as explanations. I'm not wanting to explore the shame of creating (or being) a Metis. They will be picked on (an object lesson against bullying?), but as you say, less in the Children of Gaia than would be the case for other tribes, which is one of the reasons I chose CoG.

To steal someone elses phrase, I might have to "Saturday Morning Cartoon" it. My bad guys are going to have to be a little more cliche, dastardly rather than twisted. It'll be like turning the "gore" option off on some modern video games. The full content of the game is too much for him, but he just wants to bash bad guys. My wife and I are only agreeing to play werewolf with him because his sisters abandoned him just before he got to try playing for the first time, and this was his choice. Well, he IS a typical little brother, and they're typical teenagish sisters.

Let me put it this way.. Remember the old Batman show? (Especially when compared to the new movies) "Bam", "Pow", "Zap"? Now, if you extrapolate what Joker and Riddler and all of the criminals were ACTUALLY doing to get on Batman's bad side, it wouldn't have been G rated anymore. That's kinda where I'm heading with this game. Sort of like the difference between Frankenstein (the novel by Shelley) compared to the Munsters.. Yeah, it'll be a little goofy and campy, and it's TOTALLY not going to be the canon WoD, but for his first foray into gaming, if I can keep him laughing and excited, I might create a roleplayer for life..

But again, you're absolutely correct. On the face of it, Werewolf is the wrong game for an 8 year old novice.. But.. I'm temporarily burned out on DnD, and my "game library" is as follows.. Mage: the Ascension, Mage: the Sorcerors Crusade, Vampire: the Masquerade, Vampire; the Dark Ages, Werewolf, Hunter, Twilight 2000 (2E), DnD 3/3.5, and DnD 4E.. If you exclude DnD as an option (which I'd like to do for now, for my sanity), T2K is too complex IMO, as is Mage, Vampire is even darker than Werewolf, and I'm not quite sure where I'd put Hunter.. Lol, was thinking about going online and buying "OG", the caveman game where you only know a limited number of words, and running from dinosaurs is the highlight of the day. (If anyone has played this, let me know, because I'm really tempted to get it).

You guys have convinced me that I was adding too many moving parts to my Werewolf campaign ideas, so I'm definitely taking that advice.. Any other thoughts on story ideas are highly anticipated and highly appreciated. Playgrounders are awesome!

Jornophelanthas
2010-08-19, 08:57 AM
You have Hunter: the Reckoning? Why not consider it?

I see a number of advantages over Werewolf:
- It's very easy to railroad, because you as Storyteller can use the Heralds, the Hunter symbols or any number of little clues in the players' surroundings to steer the action. It's actually harder to sandbox.
- The basic concept is simple: taking back the night from supernatural creeps, without any weird cosmology (apart from the Heralds)
- Taking back said night from said creeps pretty much consists in beating up the bad guys, but also requires a modicum of planning, preparation and investigation. Not to mention the Mercy approach.
- The players characters are not monsters per se, but the horror element here is that they gradually become more like the supernatural freaks that they're fighting, and less like the ordinary humans they want to save. This can be played up, or downplayed, as you please.
- The supernaturals in a Hunter setting don't have to be more than cardboard villains, because Hunters are typically only interested in making them stop. Although it would be nice if there's a supervillain mastermind to thwart in the end.
- Your storyline could be converted to a Hunter setting, because neither the McGuffins nor the BBEG you mentioned are specific to the Werewolf setting.

There are also disadvantages, of course.
- Your players may already be seriously invested in Werewolf.
- The stock enemy in Hunter are the walking dead, and zombies may already be nightmare material.
- Hunters are the only line of defense against the bad guys, and can't fall back on friendly animal ghosts or even more experienced elders.
- Hunters die more easily than Werewolves. Surprise is their main advantage over their enemies, because Hunters came into existence only very recently. If they screw up, someone will wind up dead.
- Crossovers with other oWoD systems is more difficult, because Hunters are not supposed to understand their enemies. In fact, the Storyteller is discouraged from using other setting materials, because players may be jaded. ("The dog in the dumpster turned into a huge slobbering monster? Don't worry, it's just a Bonegnawer.") If your players are unfamiliar with oWoD, this is a non-issue.

pife
2010-08-19, 09:56 AM
Haha, he ALMOST picked Hunter.. He actually HAD picked it, and then started flipping through the Werewolf books and loved the pictures.. From that moment on, it's been the all-werewolf channel.. 24 hours a day of 8 year old rantings about werewolves, lol. It's kinda cute actually.. He asked his mother if she needed help making her character, and when she took a long time, he wanted to look over her character to make sure that she was doing it right.. Just wish I had a more child friendly game in my repertoire..

I'm definitely going to talk to my wife about it.

On a related, but definitely side-conversation.. We don't have more players because we don't know any. Just moved to South Texas a couple of years ago, and just haven't really met any other gamers.. Is there a good online resource for locating local players? I'd love to join a steady group somewhere. My wife has only ever played with me <pun not inended>, and, as I've never been able to be a "player" in those games, she's never really had a "group" to play with. <all you pervs get your chuckling done now, lol>

It would be great if we could either join a group where I could just play a PC, or at least have an experienced player or two so that she could see how it's done..

Reluctance
2010-08-19, 12:56 PM
First, there's a player recruitment subforum on here. Either look around or post something. Second, game shops are usually a useful nexus you can use to network. And third, you never know which of your friends are interested until you ask. (That last is dependent on how far you are into the gamer closet, although far more people nowadays are neutral or curious rather than stuck on old 80's stereotypes.) Even just mentioning to some of your friends that you like to game can get you enough nibbles to get an adult group started up.

As to Jornophelanthas' suggestions, remember that you can freely ignore anything in any of the books. Do you want to downplay the physical and social ramifications of being a metis? Go right ahead. Want to ignore the rules for frenzy? You probably should. Want the Wyrm's main goal to be tying damsels to railroad tracks? It's your game. You can freely tone back or cut out any elements you dislike. R-rated situations and violent/grim imagery are not mandated by any of the rules.

Ruleswise, let me strongly suggest at the least automating defense and soak to either subtract dice from the attacker's pool equal to your full relevant rating, or subtracting successes after the roll equal to half your relevant rating. That cuts down on extra dice rolling in combat significantly, as you do not want exciting action scenes to get bogged down into slow rolling sessions. Dropping the frenzy rules is probably a very wise idea, as your son's image of werewolves probably doesn't include blacking out and shredding all those nice innocent people around him. And most importantly, since we are on a board full of game geeks after all, you might want to post a separate thread asking what are good rule systems for eight year olds. That'd probably get more direct results than a thread about oWoD campaign ideas.

tcrudisi
2010-08-19, 01:13 PM
My suggestion? Back-track a little. The pack is just being formed. The elders have said, "You five form a whole pack ... but you are still divided into 5 parts. The time has come for you to work as one and become one: to truly become a pack. It is time for your trial." Then run them through a trial to become a pack, followed by a trial to select their pack totem. Obviously, they've decided on Raccoon, but they still need to convince Raccoon to have them, which is another trial in itself, probably in the spirit world ... where they bump into a Dreamspeaker who is trying to "convince" (aka - get in my fetish!) a Raccoon spirit to help him, since the Dreamspeaker needs to be sneaky in order to ... well, that's where the other plot ideas come in. You said you wanted him to be working on something that was similar, yes? There you go. Plus, it's the first excuse to run into him.


On a related, but definitely side-conversation.. We don't have more players because we don't know any. Just moved to South Texas a couple of years ago, and just haven't really met any other gamers.. Is there a good online resource for locating local players? I'd love to join a steady group somewhere. My wife has only ever played with me <pun not inended>, and, as I've never been able to be a "player" in those games, she's never really had a "group" to play with. <all you pervs get your chuckling done now, lol>

It would be great if we could either join a group where I could just play a PC, or at least have an experienced player or two so that she could see how it's done..

Done! You have a player right here! All you have to do is move up to Raleigh, NC. :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: Heck, I even enjoy running oWoD as well!