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Deadtissue
2010-08-17, 01:14 PM
Hello all,

I am new to the playground but from the reading I have done thus far I know I can count on some excellent feedback to my request.

I am joining a new campaign soon and have been nominated to provide the tank for the group. Its in the Forgotten Realms setting and the campaign is called Savage Tide (no spoilers pls). DM has told us its based in a Jungle City and we will face some aquatic threats and later in the campaign we "may" face demonic opponents.

That said I would like to make a warrior who hails from a tribe deep in the jungle where he was captured by a rival tribe and sold as a slave. Later he earns freedom and becomes a caravan guard and guide. This is how he will begin play.

I am interested in using the ToB stuff (Warblade specifically) but have only recently gotten it and conviced the DM to allow it. All core 3.5 is allowed and any Dragon material is subject to DM approval. The group I am playing with including myself have been playing together for a long time and I generally shy away from the fighter role as I find it lacks the versatility I so love.

So how would the playground build a Versatile Jungle Bred Warrior?

PId6
2010-08-17, 01:38 PM
Any of the ToB classes can work without much optimization. Crusader makes for a great tank, while warblade tends to be a bit more versatile and can be suited for a greater variety of combat styles. Swordsage is the most versatile of all three, but it's more of a mixture of rogue/monk than a tank. They're all quite fun to play, and quite effective even in the hands of someone new to ToB.

For this character, I'd say something more like warblade, since it doesn't have the divine fluff of the crusader and has access to Tiger Claw, which meshes well with the jungle theme. What type of combat style would you like to use? Two-handed weapon? Sword-and-board? Two-weapon fighting? ToB can support nearly any melee combat style (it's a bit lacking for ranged ones though), so any of them can work.

Greenish
2010-08-17, 01:44 PM
Warblade with a dip to ranger or barbarian with Able Learner for some skills.

Perhaps Strong Arm combat style ranger 2/warblade… handy skills, track, PA for free.

For aquatic threats, Aventi (Stormwrack) is basically a human who trades the extra feat for being able to breathe both water and air, as well as having a swim speed. It's still humanoid (human) and qualifies for Able Learner, as well as getting the bonus skill points.

[Edit]: Wait, which sources were allowed? Just Core, ToB & Dragon Mag?

Deadtissue
2010-08-17, 02:30 PM
For this character I was thinking using a Spear and Shield with a Falchion as a back up weapon (flavored as a big machete). Hoping the spear will help with the ranged equation.

I was thinking of dipping ranger or barb for the survival skills. Is there a maximum recommended dip for the Warblade (like wizard if you want 9th level spells at 20th you cannot lost more than 3 caster levels)?

Not sure about the Aventi and being from deep in the Jungle but I do not have Stormwrack handy I will check it out tonite.

{Edit} All official WotC material and Dragon stuff on a case by case basis.

Greenish
2010-08-17, 02:43 PM
I was thinking of dipping ranger or barb for the survival skills. Is there a maximum recommended dip for the Warblade (like wizard if you want 9th level spells at 20th you cannot lost more than 3 caster levels)?Well, you'd want to take an even number of levels in classes other than your main ToB one because of how Initiator Levels work. Technically, the more you delay your entry, the stronger moves you can pick up when you finally enter the ToB class, but in practise I'm not a fan of long delays because you still have to satisfy the prerequisites for the stronger maneuvers and besides, I want to get to the ToB goodness early.

I'd probably take just two levels before switching to warblade, especially when starting at lower levels. Ranger, barbarian or even both are good options. If you want more skills, feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) wilderness rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) gets maybe the best skill selection and fighter feats on first and second level, in exchange for losing a point of BAB.

Not sure about the Aventi and being from deep in the Jungle but I do not have Stormwrack handy I will check it out tonite.It does have a more ocean-y fluff, but there could be a tribe of 'em in a more swampy sort of jungle. After all, real life mangrove swamps have hosts of amphibian critters.

PId6
2010-08-17, 02:45 PM
Since maneuvers aren't nearly as powerful as spells, multiclassing usually isn't too big an issue, though you should still try not to overdo it. You can take as many as 6 levels of other classes before losing access to 9th level maneuvers by 20th level (without shenanigans), but that would delay your maneuver progression by a lot. Due to how initiator level is calculated (levels in warblade + 1/2 levels in other classes), you should generally take an even number of multiclass levels since that wouldn't further delay your maneuver progression.

As Greenish said, Ranger 2 (using Strong-Arm combat style from Dragon 341) gets you Power Attack as a free feat, along with a lot of skill points and more skills. Combined with human or aventi and the Able Learner feat (Races of Destiny), you can get the nature-y skills you need.

Alternatively, Barbarian 1/Fighter 1 and Able Learner gets you a bonus feat, Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ), and a climb speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#apeTotemClassFeatures) , along with Survival as a class skill, though you'll get less skill points than ranger. The climbing fits the jungle theme quite well though, and you can take Extra Rage (CWar) to get more uses of Whirling Frenzy (which is quite good).

Tokuhara
2010-08-17, 02:53 PM
For this character I was thinking using a Spear and Shield with a Falchion as a back up weapon (flavored as a big machete). Hoping the spear will help with the ranged equation.

I was thinking of dipping ranger or barb for the survival skills. Is there a maximum recommended dip for the Warblade (like wizard if you want 9th level spells at 20th you cannot lost more than 3 caster levels)?

Not sure about the Aventi and being from deep in the Jungle but I do not have Stormwrack handy I will check it out tonite.

{Edit} All official WotC material and Dragon stuff on a case by case basis.

Darfellan would be really flavorful for a jungle-themed race. You can swim, have an improved Hold Breath ability, and have a bite attack when all else fails. I actually say to avoid ToB in this case, since more than likely, memorizing maneuvers is a lot of work.

That said, the rageless barbarian variant from UA makes thematic sense. Combo this with Beastlord (Wolf or Ape) or Highland Stalker (pick up some scout levels on the side)

or, if this seems away from your plan, be a Raptoran Scout/Ranger and take Birdlord and Highland Stalker. This way, you are a savage, can summon the animals to your aid, and fly. Divebomb some guy, flyby attack them with some nasty piercing weapon, and fly off.

PId6
2010-08-17, 02:54 PM
Darfellan would be really flavorful for a jungle-themed race. You can swim, have an improved Hold Breath ability, and have a bite attack when all else fails. I actually say to avoid ToB in this case, since more than likely, memorizing maneuvers is a lot of work.
Maneuver cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a); print it, love it.

Greenish
2010-08-17, 02:56 PM
Alternatively, Barbarian 1/Fighter 1 and Able Learner gets you a bonus feat, Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ), and a climb speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#apeTotemClassFeatures) , along with Survival as a class skill, though you'll get less skill points than ranger. The climbing fits the jungle theme quite well though, and you can take Extra Rage (CWar) to get more uses of Whirling Frenzy (which is quite good).Excellent catch with the ape totem barbarian, I tend to forget some of those, but that is cool.

If you'd prefer skill more skill points, swapping the fighter level for a level in the aforementioned feat rogue variant works.

[Edit]:
Darfellan would be really flavorful for a jungle-themed race.Beware the wrath of the jungle-dwelling orca-men! The 20' land speed is a bit of a bummer though.

Tokuhara
2010-08-17, 02:58 PM
Excellent catch with the ape totem barbarian, I tend to forget some of those, but that is cool.

If you'd prefer skill more skill points, swapping the fighter level for a level in the aforementioned feat rogue variant works.

Or Wilderness Feat Rogue (essentially a Ranger//Rogue in one fabulous class)

Greenish
2010-08-17, 02:59 PM
Or Wilderness Feat Rogue (essentially a Ranger//Rogue in one fabulous class)I did mention wilderness rogue in one of the above posts, but I left it out of that suggestion because barbarian will grant the same skills as wilderness rogue anyway on the next level.

Tokuhara
2010-08-17, 03:04 PM
I did mention wilderness rogue in one of the above posts, but I left it out of that suggestion because barbarian will grant the same skills as wilderness rogue anyway on the next level.

That being said, I have a build that uses Wilderness Rogue:

Race: Raptoran (this way you can fly through the jungle)
Class: Wilderness Rogue 5/Birdlord 10/Highland Stalker 5
Weapons: Lances (x4. 1 in each hand and 1 in each foot)

You divebomb and slam both lances into your "prey" and be like a fricken bird of prey and gore everything

Greenish
2010-08-17, 03:10 PM
Weapons: Lances (x4. 1 in each hand and 1 in each foot)Raptoran feet are not shaped for wielding most weapons. The exceptions are the footspike and footbow, which explicitly allow you to wield them in your feet while in flight.

Highland Stalker, as far as my memory serves, is a rather bland climbing focused ranger-y PrC. What's it doing for the build?

Also, bird lord is a specialization of animal lord, right? I recall not having the greatest of impressions for that PrC, either. (And didn't it require Wild Empathy or an animal companion or something like that to enter?)

Deadtissue
2010-08-17, 06:07 PM
I just got home to my books, I like the aventi and will talk to my DM about them being the last few tribes in Faerun hidden down in the south my tribe living deep in the mangroves of the chult jungles. Maybe...

The advice is great and what I was looking for: So Aventi (if allowed) Ape Totem Barb for a 1st, followed by Strongarm Ranger for 2nd and 3rd then into Warblade (I lose an initiator level but get a bonus feat from Warblade if I enter at 4th).

I am thinking Iron Heart and White Raven any comments or suggestions there?



PId6 - Thanks for the card link:smallsmile:

Greenish
2010-08-17, 06:17 PM
The advice is great and what I was looking for: So Aventi (if allowed) Ape Totem Barb for a 1st, followed by Strongarm Ranger for 2nd and 3rd then into Warblade (I lose an initiator level but get a bonus feat from Warblade if I enter at 4th).I suggest taking your first level in ranger for the extra skill points. And again, ideally, an even number of non-initiator levels. You could grab, say, a fighter level for a feat.

PId6
2010-08-17, 06:20 PM
The advice is great and what I was looking for: So Aventi (if allowed) Ape Totem Barb for a 1st, followed by Strongarm Ranger for 2nd and 3rd then into Warblade (I lose an initiator level but get a bonus feat from Warblade if I enter at 4th).
Eh, the ranger levels are a bit pointless by then. You won't get the x4 skill points at 1st level, so it's only 4 extra skill points overall. You're better off just taking a level of fighter instead, since you'll get the same bonus feat and keep that initiator level.

If you really want skills, go Wilderness Feat Rogue 1/Barbarian 1, then go into warblade. The rogue's 8 skill points are multiplied at 1st level, netting you an extra 16 skill points by that alone, along with your bonus feat. You lose a point of BAB, but you keep your point of IL and get nearly everything else you could want.


I am thinking Iron Heart and White Raven any comments or suggestions there?
Those are pretty good choices. Also consider Diamond Mind, especially the save-replacing maneuvers (Moment of Perfect Mind is priceless on warrior-types) and the awesome strikes (such as the X Nightmare Blades and the Insightful Strike line).

Deadtissue
2010-08-17, 06:25 PM
Greenish I would be more convinced if you could suggest an ACF for the fighter level as I really do not want to write "fighter" on my character sheet LoL. I take your point though on the even number.

Maybe I should just take the Wilderness Rogue level and be done with it.