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EdroGrimshell
2010-08-18, 05:28 PM
I'll be starting an urban gestalt campaign soon where the entire empire is ruled by tyranical wizards. The PCs are not allowed to use full casters (any class that gets higher than 6th level spells) since magic is highly regulated by the higher ups.

The party has the primary categories already (Arcane caster, divine caster, warrior, and skill monkey) and i'm the 5th wheel character. I specialize in neutralizing and killing enemy spellcasters, meaning i need to be fast, able to resist spells, and able to dispatch the mage.

So far, i know i'll be using ranger on one side. Maybe taking levels in the beastheart adept PrC.

Greenish
2010-08-18, 05:33 PM
I would go with the Incarnate, it goes well with everything and has excellent tricks (flight, SR/saves boosters, extra hitpoints and other assorted goodies).

[Edit]: I should also suggest wildshape and/or mystic ranger with Favoured Enemy: Arcanist.

Evard
2010-08-18, 05:49 PM
Unaprochable East has a mage slayer type class (prestige class) that goes off the barbarian :D

Been a while since I looked at it but from what I remember it was a fuuuun class :D

I think they had the ability to give themselves tattoos that held spells in them... hmmm

EdroGrimshell
2010-08-18, 05:57 PM
Should have said in the first post. No incarnum, psionics, or anything from ToM and ToB.

Mystic ranger, got it, and was planning on the Favored Enemy: Arcanist.

What should iput on the other side.

Greenish
2010-08-18, 06:01 PM
How about Duskblade to fix that Will save. It can take care of the offensive "spammy" spells while mystic ranger (with SotAO) does utility/buffs.

Iferus
2010-08-18, 06:05 PM
You might consider a swift hunter build. Either as the side that cannot use PrC's or in some full-gestalt way.

If you want to go about flanking with your animal companion, try to get some sneak attack at lower levels (i.e. before you can get PrC's).


Ooh, and take levels in the Occult Slayer prestige class.

Morph Bark
2010-08-18, 06:11 PM
Spellthief sound good?

Spellthief//Duskblade always sounded pretty good to me, personally.

Tetrasodium
2010-08-18, 06:18 PM
Occult slayer has some nifty bounce/redirect spell abilities along with various bonus's against targets capable of casting arcane spells, complete warrior I think.

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-18, 06:24 PM
You could take three levels of Knight for Bulwark of Defense and take Mage Slayer from PHB II for some antimage ability. For Extra Crazy, make it a Spiked Chain-wielding type with Ranger's TWF for free. As a side bonus, the Knight has a good Will Save.

Morph Bark
2010-08-18, 06:27 PM
You could take three levels of Knight for Bulwark of Defense and take Mage Slayer from PHB II for some antimage ability. For Extra Crazy, make it a Spiked Chain-wielding type with Ranger's TWF for free. As a side bonus, the Knight has a good Will Save.

With this, the Knockback feat will also be great, obviously. And somehow getting even more reach, as always.

Greenish
2010-08-18, 06:27 PM
You could take three levels of Knight for Bulwark of Defense and take Mage Slayer from PHB II for some antimage ability. For Extra Crazy, make it a Spiked Chain-wielding type with Ranger's TWF for free. As a side bonus, the Knight has a good Will Save.Mage Slayer eats up a good few of feats when you need Practiced Caster to bump CL back up (since Mystic Ranger is a pretty decent caster even without SotAO).

And you can't TWF with Spiked Chains. Strongarm Ranger gets Power Attack and some others as it's combat style, though I'd still go for wildshape.

[Edit]: If you get to push LA and RHD on the other side of the gestalt, a large race might be in order.

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-18, 06:29 PM
TWF doesn't apply to double weapons?

EdroGrimshell
2010-08-18, 06:37 PM
TWF doesn't apply to double weapons?

Spiked chain isn't a double weapon.

Greenish
2010-08-18, 06:39 PM
TWF doesn't apply to double weapons?You're confusing Spiked Chain with the Chain from Savage Species. Not that you'd want to TWF the latter though, since you'd lose the reach.

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-18, 06:40 PM
Seriously?

I can see the picture from here. There are two pointy sides and a non-pointy center. How can that possibly not be a double weapon?

Greenish
2010-08-18, 06:41 PM
Seriously?

I can see the picture from here. There are two pointy sides and a non-pointy center. How can that possibly not be a double weapon?Going by the picture, I'm not sure how it's a weapon at all. :smallamused:

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-18, 06:43 PM
Going by the picture, I'm not sure how it's a weapon at all. :smallamused:

Fair Enough. Never noticed that before. Maybe you could do it with the Monkey Grip feat?

Greenish
2010-08-18, 06:45 PM
Fair Enough. Never noticed that before. Maybe you could do it with the Monkey Grip feat?No dice. Monkey Grip specifically doesn't allow you to use two-handed weapons as one-handed.

[Edit]: It's pretty poor feat anyway. Spinning Swords would work though.

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-18, 06:49 PM
Spinning Swords works too. The point is that the Mage can't cast defensively while in your threatened area, so you have a chance to Disrupt them no matter what. Bulwark of Defense makes it harder to move out of your threatened area.

Greenish
2010-08-18, 06:52 PM
Spinning Swords works too. The point is that the Mage can't cast defensively while in your threatened area, so you have a chance to Disrupt them no matter what. Bulwark of Defense makes it harder to move out of your threatened area.Yes, I'm aware on how that comboes, except for the TWF part.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-18, 06:52 PM
A nifty trick for Gishes who want to take the mage slayer line. Abjurant champion capstone sets your CL at your BAB, and since you can apply penalties and bonus in the way that is more benneficial for you simply apply the capstone AFTER the CL reduction from mage slayer

Greenish
2010-08-18, 06:53 PM
A nifty trick for Gishes who want to take the mage slayer line. Abjurant champion capstone sets your CL at your BAB, and since you can apply penalties and bonus in the way that is more benneficial for you simply apply the capstone AFTER the CL reduction from mage slayerHa, brilliant.

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-18, 06:53 PM
The TWF part was mostly a joke. If it was possible, It would force them to make Two saves though.

Keld Denar
2010-08-18, 06:56 PM
Unfortunately, it would be 2 relatively low Conc checks. You'd be better off forcing one really high Conc check that the caster has no chance of making.

Plus, TWF (with Double Hit) on top of Mage Slayer is really REALLY feat intensive.

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-18, 06:57 PM
As I said, It was mostly a joke. Alternately, Ask your DM about Metafighting today! I can't find the link though.

Greenish
2010-08-18, 06:58 PM
The TWF part was mostly a joke. If it was possible, It would force them to make Two saves though.Mageslayer line, TWF line, EWP and Double Hit? Won't leave you much any feats for anything else, and the result is less than spectacular.

By "two saves", you mean concentration checks or what?

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-18, 06:59 PM
Yes, I meant concentration checks. My bad. And would you guys drop it? I already told you it was a joke!

Yorrin
2010-08-18, 07:00 PM
Since nobody has mentioned it yet: soulknife can be a viable option at higher levels thanks to knife-to-the-soul.

Iferus
2010-08-18, 07:05 PM
Hmm...
Just a little thought experiment to decrease MAD. Relying on both wisdom and charisma for a slayer archtype just doesn't feel right ;-)


Spellthief 20 // Ranger 1 / Monk 2 / Fighter 2 / Occult slayer 5 / XX 10


The last (prestige) class is going to be the defining role. You can choose just about anything with your BAB, Sneak Attack, Evasion and spare feats. Go for something with full BAB and charisma sinergy and you're off.

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-18, 07:10 PM
Hmm...
Just a little thought experiment to decrease MAD. Relying on both wisdom and charisma for a slayer archtype just doesn't feel right ;-)


Spellthief 20 // Ranger 1 / Monk 2 / Fighter 2 / Occult slayer 5 / XX 10


The last (prestige) class is going to be the defining role. You can choose just about anything with your BAB, Sneak Attack, Evasion and spare feats. Go for something with full BAB and charisma sinergy and you're off.

Full BAB and CHA Synergy... It's not a prestige class but you could try Gorgondantess' Remake of the Paladin, which is, frankly, awesome. Everything is based on Charisma, it has a d12 HD and full BAB. The class abilities and the casting are nothing to laugh about either. Your description of the wizards implies Lawful Evil, so the paladin is a perfect countermeasure. Just check with your DM.

Soranar
2010-08-18, 07:33 PM
Since nobody has mentioned it yet: soulknife can be a viable option at higher levels thanks to knife-to-the-soul.

could be because psionic classes are not allowed, just saying

Yorrin
2010-08-18, 07:39 PM
could be because psionic classes are not allowed, just saying

Well, he said magic, not psionics (unless I missed something >_>), but yeah, it's possible he has one of those DMs that consider them the same thing, or just bans psionics altogether.

EdroGrimshell
2010-08-18, 07:45 PM
No psionics, although we are using a mindblade feat chain, refluffed as natural magic in the blood.

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-18, 08:40 PM
Well... Mystic WILD SHAPE Ranger, definitely, and ask the DM to change the weapon options to some melee ones, and the fighting style option to something that helps with wild shape, like the bear wrestling one or something. As for the other side... not sure...

Greenish
2010-08-18, 08:45 PM
Well... Mystic WILD SHAPE Ranger, definitely, and ask the DM to change the weapon options to some melee ones, and the fighting style option to something that helps with wild shape, like the bear wrestling one or something. As for the other side... not sure...Wild shape loses combat style feats.

EdroGrimshell
2010-08-18, 08:48 PM
Where do i find the wildshape variant? I can't seem to find it.

Yorrin
2010-08-18, 08:49 PM
Unearthed Arcana. page 58, iirc.

EdroGrimshell
2010-08-18, 08:55 PM
Unearthed Arcana. page 58, iirc.

Huh, i could've sworn i looked there.

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-18, 08:56 PM
Its also here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantcharacterclasses.htm

And you're right, it does lose combat style.

mabriss lethe
2010-08-18, 10:56 PM
Why not factotum? Spellthief//Factotum could be rather fun.

Greenish
2010-08-19, 08:23 AM
Why not factotum? Spellthief//Factotum could be rather fun.Given how similar the two classes are, I'm not sure I'd gestalt them together (offhand, same BAB, same saves, same HD, same skillpoints, minor arcane casting). And then different stat priority.

Factotum in general though is a brilliant, brilliant class, both in itself and as a gestalt half. Duskblade//Factotum would be extremely well rounded and capable character.

Quirp
2010-08-19, 08:47 AM
Witch Slayer (Tome of Magic) has a nice capstone (when you can pump the DC), gives you mettle, full BAB, slippery mind and has some easy perequisites. I think a Ranger/Paladin/Witch Slayer/Occult Slayer // Spellthief might work as far as slaying casters goes: charisma synergy, can make casters useless, steals their spells. If Abjurant Champion is possible on the Spellthief side it would be even better.

EdroGrimshell
2010-08-19, 09:00 AM
Thanks guys, looks like i'll be going ranger // spellthief 3. Possibly a few warlock levels later in place of paladin (I'm Chaotic Neutral, and no i dont play chaotic stupid)

Now for feats that don't screw over my caster level.

Quirp
2010-08-19, 09:57 AM
Improved Initiative and Weapon Focus are necessary for Occult Slayer. Power attack is perhaps good to boost damage. If you go for Witch Slayer, Ability Focus might be nice for your capstone. Other feats depend on your chosen combat style.

Roc Ness
2010-08-19, 10:15 AM
Feat: Favoured Power Attack. (Complete Warrior)

Basicly, you get an even further increase in Power Attack when used against a favored enemy (Arcanists, in your case). With a two-handed weapon, the Power Attack conversion rate is 1:3, 1:2 with a one handed weapon (so its still very useful if you are TWF). Sadly, it doesn't have any effect with light weapons or, by extension, off-hand weapons.

Also, if you aren't *too* attached to Mystic Ranger, take the Solitary Hunter ranger variant. Lose Animal Companion for your Favored Enemy bonus to apply to attack rolls as well as damage rolls. At higher levels (I'm thinking 10), that's a +6 to attack and damage. Combine with Favoured Power Attack, and you get a straight +24 to damage if you are using a two-handed weapon, +18 with a one-handed weapon.

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-19, 10:45 AM
It may still be worth taking Mage Slayer, because it makes them pretty much unable to safely use spells in Melee.

Tokuhara
2010-08-19, 12:02 PM
I almost suggest picking a savage race with good SR so with the Mage Slayer/Witch Hunter, you are better at counteracting magic.