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View Full Version : [3.5] Help me pimp my spellbook



katans
2010-08-19, 02:19 AM
Hi folks,

I'll be playing a tiefling diviner 5 / divine oracle 10 soon (banned Enchantment) in the Forgotten Realms. I'd like to have some reviews about my spell selection. I tried to cover as many fields as possible, but I still feel like it's not perfect yet.

Feats-wise, I went for the prereqs for DO and Archmage (which I plan to take later on), plus Quicken Spell for good measure. I picked a lesser rod of Extend on the side.

Allowed sources are PHB, DMG, FRCS, PGtF, CW, CAdv, Cdiv, CArc, and the DM is absolutely not ready to expand the list.

Here's what I've picked so far:

Level 0 : all but Daze

Level 1 : Comprehend languages, Feather fall, True strike, Grease+, Silent image, Mage armor, Invisible servant, Ventriloquism, Magic missile, Ray of enfeeblement, Endure elements

Level 2 : Detect thoughts, Rope trick, Web, Create magic tattoo, See invisibility, Resist energy, Augury

Level 3 : Phantom steed, Arcane sight, Dispel magic, Nondetection, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Wind wall, Stone shape, Magic circle against evil, Greater magic weapon, Haste, Divination

Level 4 : Greater invisibility, Polymorph, Orb of fire, Assay resistance, Fear, Anticipate teleportation, Dimensional anchor

Level 5 : Wall of force, Fleshshiver, Rary's telepathic bond, Freezing fog, Summon undead V, Greater Blink, Commune

Level 6 : Analyze dweomer, Probe thoughts, True seeing, Greater dispel magic, Chain lightning, Contingency

Level 7 : Greater Teleport, Greater scrying, Limited wish, Greater shadow conjuration, Waves of exhaustion, Energy immunity

Level 8 : Greater Prying Eyes, Polymorph Any Object, Mind Blank, Maze, Greater Planar Binding, Clone

I don't have money left for more spells at the moment, so adding a spell would mean removing another one.

Please, GiTP, help me pimp my book !

BR
K.

Soren Hero
2010-08-19, 02:48 AM
are you looking for some cheese? i've always been fond of taking Simulacrum as a level 7 spell...you get a clone of any creature you've seen/defeated, and it's permanently under your control...imagine the shenanigans

katans
2010-08-19, 03:13 AM
Considered it originally, but there are major drawbacks: 12-hour casting time, need for large amounts of snow while I don't know where in the Realms we'll be playing (don't feel like spending 2 Greater Teleports every time) and how fast-paced the whole thing will be, and the outrageous XP cost (I'm already 1 level late due to LA, so I'm not that excited by the idea). Simulacrum is one of those spells that allow a huge amount of theoretical cheese, but not really playable cheese.

katans
2010-08-19, 07:38 AM
Another important information: I don't know the party's exact composition yet, but I'll be the only arcanist. There will be 1-2 clerics, and the rest will be non-casters or half-casters.

Keld Denar
2010-08-19, 10:18 AM
I see a distinct lack of Slow. Slow is REALLY good, especially since you have Quicken Spell.

Solid Fog is amazing. Learn it. Its 2 rounds of no-save remove from combat for any baddy that doesn't have FoM or teleportation. Use it to divide and conquer.

Glitterdust is pretty good. At level 15, its still has an ok chance to blind, but where it really lights up is combined with Detect Invis, you can use it to negate invisible foes.

Divination is a 4th level spell. Check the Oracle domain, its 4th.

Freezing Fog is 6th.

Illusory Pit (SpC, not sure if it was a reprint) is pretty amazing for stopping large groups of non-flying monsters. You have to keep concentration on it, but its a multi-target mez that ends with a round of stun even after it breaks. If you mez most of the bad guys, your party can clean up the un-mezed ones, and then break out the mezed ones one at a time. EZMODE.

Eldariel
2010-08-19, 10:34 AM
Few things. You'll want (with Keld Repeats):
- Glitterdust
- Pyrotechnics
- Familiar Pocket [CArc]
- Slow
- Stinking Cloud
- Bands of Steel [CArc]
- Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
- Solid Fog
- Orb of Force
- Enervation
- Duelward [CArc] (poor spell but worth scrolling at least; when you know you're gonna fight a caster, it can be a lifesaver)
- Contact Other Plane
- Overland Flight
- Teleport/Dimension Door (natural for Contingency, and easier level slots)
- Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability [CArc]
- Probe Thoughts [CArc]
- Cloak of the Sea [CAdv]
- Plane Shift
- Ghostform [CArc]
- Brilliant Aura [CDiv]


For snow, there's always Minor Creation/Major Creation, Teleport and such; it shouldn't be a problem, really.

Soren Hero
2010-08-19, 12:20 PM
Considered it originally, but there are major drawbacks: 12-hour casting time, need for large amounts of snow while I don't know where in the Realms we'll be playing (don't feel like spending 2 Greater Teleports every time) and how fast-paced the whole thing will be, and the outrageous XP cost (I'm already 1 level late due to LA, so I'm not that excited by the idea). Simulacrum is one of those spells that allow a huge amount of theoretical cheese, but not really playable cheese.

the 12 hour casting time might be a problem if you needed a simulacrum immediately, but preparation is key and you are a diviner. preparation is your middle name. taking advantage of downtime is crucial to success for wizard. if you have to bunker down somewhere for a couple hours, like say while you're waiting around in a rope trick. the ice might be a little problem. i've always had the cleric cast create water, and i used a cold spell, which a fair dm might rule creates ice (my dm likes thinking outside the box). Wizards Magic users shouldn't have much of a problem getting ice/snow, considering they have the power to alter the universe and such...there is always re-fluffing the spell to work with sand/dirt/grass/water or any other material easily available in your Realm

the poster above me suggested minor/major creation but i don't think that will work
Minor Creation
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Unattended, nonmagical object of nonliving plant matter, up to 1 cu. ft./level
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You create a nonmagical, unattended object of nonliving, vegetable matter. The volume of the item created cannot exceed 1 cubic foot per caster level. You must succeed on an appropriate skill check to make a complex item.

Attempting to use any created object as a material component causes the spell to fail.
Material Component

A tiny piece of matter of the same sort of item you plan to create with minor creation.

katans
2010-08-23, 05:07 AM
Solid Fog is amazing. Learn it. Its 2 rounds of no-save remove from combat for any baddy that doesn't have FoM or teleportation. Use it to divide and conquer.

I already have Freezing fog, which basically does the same.


Divination is a 4th level spell. Check the Oracle domain, its 4th.

Freezing Fog is 6th.

In CDiv and CArc, respectively, those are 3rd and 5th level spells (according to Crystalkeep at least, but I'll double-check at home). SpC is not an allowed source, see above.

Other suggestions:
- Glitterdust: yes, gonna think about it.
- Pyrotechnics: Frankly not impressed. I've got other spells for battelfield control
- Familiar Pocket [CArc]: I have no familiar.
- Slow: OK
- Stinking Cloud: Gonna think about it. Maybe I'll take Cloudkill instead.
- Bands of Steel [CArc]: Single target up to Medium... if this wasn't a lv 15 game, I'de consider it, but here...
- Otiluke's Resilient Sphere: yup, good idea
- Solid Fog: Freezing fog ?
- Orb of Force: gonna consider it, I'm not quite sure if it's worth it.
- Enervation: I have better no-save-just-suck spells already.
- Duelward [CArc] (poor spell but worth scrolling at least; when you know you're gonna fight a caster, it can be a lifesaver): Good catch.
- Contact Other Plane: I've already got Commune, which is infinitely more reliable.
- Overland Flight: Phantom Steed does it better.
- Teleport/Dimension Door (natural for Contingency, and easier level slots): DDoor is worth a try, Teleport... meh, greater version is more reliable.
- Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability [CArc]: As I said, no familiar.
- Probe Thoughts [CArc]: Meh. Nothing a beefed-up Diplomacy check couldn't duplicate, and we're a level 15 party.
- Cloak of the Sea [CAdv]: This is indeed worth a scroll.
- Plane Shift: Two clerics in the party.
- Ghostform [CArc]: Greater Blink is more reliable as a defense spell, and I have other means of traveling through matter.
- Brilliant Aura [CDiv]: that's a druid spell, I believe...

Thanks everybody for the feedback !

Torq
2010-08-23, 09:36 AM
SpC is not an allowed source, see above.

I'd fight for letting this be a legal source. I think it makes casting double-the-fun.

dextercorvia
2010-08-23, 10:48 AM
Divination is a 3rd level spell for the Oracle domain in both CD and SpC.

Eldariel
2010-08-23, 10:49 AM
You should pick Familiar with Obtain Familiar-feat; honestly, it's totally worth it. Doubles your actions!


- Pyrotechnics: Frankly not impressed. I've got other spells for battelfield control

Use it with a Bullseye Lantern for a nice 120' cone blind.

Ghostform is obscene 'cause you can operate inside matter. Which is pretty awesome as non-incorporeals just can't really detect you or affect you, while you can go to town.

And Plane Shift is always worth having in your BOOK at least; you never know when you get separated or are needed to carry out a solo mission. Besides, your save DC is higher without Heighten Spell and you can use it to blast things with Immunity to Mind-Affecting and poor Will-saves into their demises.

Solid Fog is similarly lower level version of Freezing; best make most out of your lower level slots.


Re: Brilliant Aura, you're right. Get Brilliant Blade [CArc] then; Aura was updated to be for all IIRC but that must've been Spell Compendium.

katans
2010-08-24, 07:03 AM
You should pick Familiar with Obtain Familiar-feat; honestly, it's totally worth it. Doubles your actions!

Even with Obtain familiar it's still linked to my crappy 5 class levels...


Use it with a Bullseye Lantern for a nice 120' cone blind.

Pretty sure my DM is gonna call shenanigans on this one...


Ghostform is obscene 'cause you can operate inside matter. Which is pretty awesome as non-incorporeals just can't really detect you or affect you, while you can go to town.

The part about not having line of sight or line of effect to neither my opponents nor my allies makes this kinda moot, or am I missing something? I'm not exactly out on my own.


Solid Fog is similarly lower level version of Freezing; best make most out of your lower level slots.

That's an argument, but I only have so much 4th level spell slots... Gotta think about it.


Re: Brilliant Aura, you're right. Get Brilliant Blade [CArc] then; Aura was updated to be for all IIRC but that must've been Spell Compendium.

Single-target boost with a range of touch that's only useful against armored opponents. I'm not exactly transported.

Eldariel
2010-08-24, 08:33 AM
Even with Obtain familiar it's still linked to my crappy 5 class levels...

Nope, Obtain links it to your arcane caster level, not class levels. And honestly, Familiar gets all the abilities you need in the first 3 levels; its HD and skills are linked to your HD and skills so your class level doesn't matter for that regard and the abilities familiar gains on higher levels are rather irrelevant (or at the very least unnecessary).


Pretty sure my DM is gonna call shenanigans on this one...

*shrug* I don't see why, it's a light source and they can be directed and Pyrotechnics works with light sources. It's not better than Glitterdust anyways, just has different applications. But that's one of the reasons it's good. The second mode isn't bad either tho; smoke's always useful.


The part about not having line of sight or line of effect to neither my opponents nor my allies makes this kinda moot, or am I missing something? I'm not exactly out on my own.

If you're in a wall, you can still act from there and if you use area-effect spells (or True Strike), you don't need LoS for 0 chance of missing. Incorporeals attack from inside walls regularly; you can do the same. If necessary, use some divinations to "see" outside enough to locate targets.


Single-target boost with a range of touch that's only useful against armored opponents. I'm not exactly transported.

It can be a huge boost tho; Brilliant Energy is a bad ability 'cause of how limited it is, but the spell can be cast when it's actually useful. Again, scroll, not something to prepare, but when you face the BBEG with ~+15 armor-based AC bonus, you'll be happy your Fighter can now PA for 15 thanks to your Brilliant Blade. It's a handy enhancement. Heck, it's useful vs. a Hecatoncheires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#hecatoncheires); 58 is far easier to hit than 70.

WinWin
2010-08-24, 10:36 AM
shrink item has good ultility

telekenisis is one of the best offesive spells of it's level.

Both are core.

Beorn080
2010-08-24, 03:14 PM
Ya, I'd say swap out the familiar for an ACF, and pick up Obtain Familiar. If you have access, Improved Familiar grants access to some incredibly powerful familiars.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870010/The_Familiars_Handbook_--_2007

At 5th lvl, you can pick up an air elemental, and at 7th, an imp, which has insane abilities. Both can use wands and weapons I believe.

As for spells, definitely solid fog. Can even use it to feather fall.

katans
2010-08-25, 01:49 AM
OK, thanks people, I'll work on it a bit and come back with the results.