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Ryu_Bonkosi
2010-08-20, 12:53 AM
Being unsure if this thread already exists I thought I would start one. At what point does a build stop being an optimized one and become just plain broken? I was curious, and would enjoy other people's insight.

(Also please, no posting a link to "Pun-Pun" that isn't optimized, it's just broken.)

JaronK
2010-08-20, 12:56 AM
It's broken when the character can no longer be challenged without fundamentally altering the campaign. I don't mean upping someone's HD a little or adding a class level to enemies here and there. For example, if the entire campaign is to make it to the mountain of doom where the artifact can be destroyed, and all you have to do once there is drop the artifact in a lake of fire thus winning the game, then Teleport Without Error is broken. If you need to kill a god, then Timeless/Flowing Time Genesis + Gate is broken. If the game is to find the hidden killer in the town, then Contact other Plane (asking a god of murder who did it) is broken. All of these just end, and thus break, the campaign without it being fun.

JaronK

tyckspoon
2010-08-20, 12:57 AM
Anything that goes infinite (or requires exponential notation to properly record, which is as close to infinite as makes no difference to the game) is a very clear and obvious line, IMO. Under that, almost anything can find a home in somebody's game, so I hesitate to call stuff out and out broken- usually it's just higher than (generic table)'s comfortable power level. Full-casters using undispellable persistent effects to be completely immune to HP damage and better than half of the status effects is pretty out there, tho.

Zeful
2010-08-20, 01:33 AM
Any build in which the only counter is itself or a God (non-epic).

ex cathedra
2010-08-20, 01:56 AM
It's broken when the character can no longer be challenged without fundamentally altering the campaign.

This, honestly. I don't think that I could sum it better.

There comes a time when "the wizard" (this representing any tier one or higher character) is simply no longer playing the same game as "the fighter" (this representing any tier 3 or less character). I'm not talking about the differences between a Full Attack and, say, Glitterdust; more accurately, there comes a time when a wizard has access to Planar Binding, Simulacrum, Gate, Genesis, and the like. At that point in the "fighter's" career, they're still full attacking. This causes tremendous difficulty in encounter design and party management, and is an example of a character transcending from optimized to broken (on an inherently relative level).

Psyx
2010-08-20, 09:59 AM
If the GM needs to start needing to develop specific strategies just to threaten the character; it's pretty broken.

When a PC is just 'better' than the rest of the party put together in almost every way it's broken. This might set the bar fairly low in cases where the rest of the party are 'causal' players, while one optimises; but that character in that campaign is kind of breaking it.