Jirix=Evil Genius?

[Dr.Epic]

Disclaimer: I am not saying Jirix is an evil genius. I am saying he is the Evil Genius in context.

So, after trying to figure out who fills what role in the Five Bad Band (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveBadBand), I'm left struggling with what role Jirix is. Here's what I got:

Big Bad: Xykon (duh)
Dragon: Red Cloak
Brute: Monster in the Darkness
Dark Chick: Tsukiko

The only real role left is is Evil Genius and Jirix is the only person left in Team Evil. Thoughts?

[hamishspence]

Redcloak fits the Evil Genius role better. Sometimes characters can overlap- Redcloak has traits of the Evil Genius as well as the Dragon.

And a character may play one role in one group, and a different in another.

Within the Church of the Dark One, Jirix might be the Dragon to Redcloak's Big Bad.

[Dr.Epic]

Redcloak fits the Evil Genius role better. Sometimes characters can overlap- Redcloak has traits of the Evil Genius as well as the Dragon.

See that's what I thought but his role as Dragon just fits better.

[Scarlet Knight]

Goblin Dan - Evil GENIUS

[hamishspence]

See that's what I thought but his role as Dragon just fits better.

He's a better Dragon than an Evil Genius- but a better Evil Genius than Jirix so far.

[BRC]

Tropes are not Rules.
You can't assign somebody a role simply because it fits a trope definition. Tropes are tendencies people on TVtropes have noticed in Media, not hard-and-fast rules for writing, tropes are brought about by writing, not the other way around. Simply because TVtropes includes "Evil Genius" as one of the roles in a villainous group, and Team Evil has such a group, does not make Jirix an evil genius simply by process of elimination.

[hamishspence]

True- I was looking at it more along the lines of "Redcloak has a bit in common with the Evil Genius, and a bit more in common with the Dragon"

rather than "Redcloak Is the Evil Genius/Dragon".

[Roc Ness]

Xykon's a bit evil genious too, isn't he?

[Dr.Epic]

Xykon's a bit evil genious too, isn't he?

What? How?

[Crisis21]

I fail to see how Xykon is the Evil Genius in any capacity. He might have the smarts for it, barely, but nothing else about Xykon fits this role.

Xykon is the Big Bad, full stop. Nothing else works for him.

[Gift Jeraff]

I feel like quoting SPoD's (I think) signature about TVTropes, but I'm lazy.

Anyway, Jirix is the Wattson. There's a chance he can become the Dragon, given what Xykon said (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html), but if that ever happens who knows what the rest of Team Evil would look like.


Xykon's a bit evil genious too, isn't he?
You are confusing Xykon being a [lazy] genius who is evil, with the "Evil Genius" trope. The Evil Genius of the Five Bad Band is the brains behind the operation. It's Redcloak's schemes and strategy, thus he is the Evil Genius (and Dragon).

[Lemur Bear]

Honestly, I would set it like this:

Big Bad: Xykon
Dragon: Red Cloak
Evil Genius: Red Cloak
Brute: Tsukiko (in a Psycho for Hire (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PsychoForHire) kind of way)
Dark Chick: Tsukiko

MitD is more of a Team Pet (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TeamPet) than a Brute, but there is merit to calling him the Brute. He just doesn't fight much except in his own side things which aren't battles, but incidental damage.

[Gift Jeraff]

Both Monster-san and Tsukiko both fit both the Brute and the Dark Chick, both in their own ways. (Okay, so I just wanted an excuse to overuse "both", but still.) The MitD was brought onto the team with a Brute role in mind, but he's the defector from the group--the odd man thing out.

As said above, tropes are tendencies, not rules, and not everything has to fit into neat little boxes.

[Poppy Appletree]

The MitD was brought onto the team with a Brute role in mind, but he's the defector from the group--the odd man thing out.

I don't think MitD is going to be the only defector - it seems pretty likely that Redcloak isn't going to be with Team Evil for much longer, whether through his actions or Xykon's.

[Mando Knight]

The Evil Genius of the Five Bad Band is the brains behind the operation. It's Redcloak's schemes and strategy, thus he is the Evil Genius (and Dragon).
Even so, Xykon is constantly manipulating Redcloak to get what he wants. He's far more devious than Redcloak, but he lets him make plans and deal with recruiting and appeasing the goblinoids since Redcloak had the phylactery and potential to master the divine half of the Gate ritual... and because he's a bit lazy with detailed stuff like that. With how he's tricked Redcloak into his pocket, Xykon is a bit more of the mastermind...

[Nimrod's Son]

Thoughts?
"TVTropes is 90% horsecrap" springs immediately to mind. :smallsigh:

[B. Dandelion]

I hate the "five (man/bad) band" thing. People have this compulsion -- every single works page absolutely must have its cast lined up with the roles. It seldom makes any sense and it's never interesting. I love Tropes on the whole but I wish to God they'd eliminate that one with extreme prejudice because I hate it so much!

...Character Alignment (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CharacterAlignment) is obnoxious too, what with the tendency for every Draco (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DracoInLeatherPants) fangirl to argue that their evil-as-sin lust object is really chaotic neutral. It's the absolute go-to alignment for anyone trying to argue an evil character is just misunderstood.

[Fiery Diamond]

Curse you, OP! You made me waste 3 hours of my life on TVTropes!:smallmad:

[sockmonkey]

All tvtrope links should be spoilered. That place is only slightly more addictive than chocolate flavored crack.

[Kurald Galain]

Xykon is the Big Bad, full stop. Nothing else works for him.

Wellll...

One could argue that the Snarl is the Big Bad, and that Xykon is The Dragon.

[Laeric]

"TVTropes is 90% horsecrap" springs immediately to mind. :smallsigh:

^^This +10%

[hamishspence]

...Character Alignment (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CharacterAlignment) is obnoxious too, what with the tendency for every Draco (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DracoInLeatherPants) fangirl to argue that their evil-as-sin lust object is really chaotic neutral. It's the absolute go-to alignment for anyone trying to argue an evil character is just misunderstood.

You'll find people who argue that the torturing serial killer Dexter from the book Darkly Dreaming Dexter, also a TV series, is Chaotic Neutral, since according to them "Evil must hurt, oppress, kill, the innocent- anyone unwilling to harm the innocent can't be evil in D&D terms"

[Kish]

Disclaimer: I am not saying Jirix is an evil genius. I am saying he is the Evil Genius in context.

So, after trying to figure out who fills what role in the Five Bad Band (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveBadBand), I'm left struggling with what role Jirix is. Here's what I got:

Big Bad: Xykon (duh)



The Big Bad - Counterpart to The Hero. Large And In Charge, with an inner circle of mooks to do their bidding and often also an Evil Army as well. Often will be more difficult to identify early on because of the very nature of a Big Bad. Occasionally pulls double duty as the Evil Genius.

Xykon does fit that.

The Snarl doesn't fit any of it.


Dragon: Red Cloak



The Dragon - Counterpart to The Lancer. Usually more physical than their boss, and commonly the most trusted member of the bunch. Good for leading Mooks, and sometimes the most 'classy' looking. Much like The Lancer, in the absence of a Sixth Column, The Dragon is the most likely to betray the team (especially if they're The Starscream), and may bear their share of resentment towards the Big Bad. More likely to be The Hero's Evil Counterpart or Worthy Opponent within the context of the story than the Big Bad is.

Meh. It's not too much of a stretch if you really want to cram him into the trope. (However: Redcloak. One word. Not "Red Cloak.")


Brute: Monster in the Darkness



The Brute - Counterpart to The Big Guy. If the Dragon doesn't lead the Mooks, they will. While likely not better in a fight than The Dragon, is often the most physically powerful and often the most sadistic. Likes to fight and get his hand dirty, and is usually second best to the Dragon at doing so. Oh, and they are big, and sometimes (but not always) pretty dim.

Bolded parts are for WTF. No.


Dark Chick: Tsukiko


The Dark Chick - The counterpart to The Chick, they can vary quite significantly, and is chiefly defined by looking or acting wildly different from the other members, adding color to the group. It's this member that stands out for one reason or another, and may be considered the "freak" or loose cannon of the group, particularly by her own members. If in an optimistic setting, she will be the one most likely to be redeemed and not die horrifically. If not, then she becomes a one part Dominatrix and one part Yandere for The Hero (if male) if she holds any type of romantic interest towards him at all. Or just one or the latter.

That is--there is no reason to describe Tsukiko that way other than trying to cram her into a TVTropes role. She is not "chiefly defined by looking or acting wildly different from the other members" any more than Xykon himself is. ...In fact, you'd be slightly less blatantly trying to force a set of three or four miscellaneously shaped pegs into five round holes if you'd put her as the Brute and the creature in the darkness as the Evil Chick.


The only real role left is is Evil Genius and Jirix is the only person left in Team Evil. Thoughts?
One: Why are you doing this?

[Crisis21]

Wellll...

One could argue that the Snarl is the Big Bad, and that Xykon is The Dragon.

Anyone can argue anything. Whether or not the argument has merit is another thing.

The younger Xykon from early parts of SoD fit The Dragon position fairly well. Current Xykon on the other hand has the attitude of, 'you either work for me or I kill you in painful and degrading ways'. This is Big Bad attitude, full stop. To be The Dragon instead of the Big Bad, you have to not be in charge which Xykon clearly is.

The Snarl is not the Big Bad. Being the Big Bad requires both a degree of self-awareness that we have yet to see attributed to the Snarl, and forces working for you. The Snarl works alone. If the Snarl fits any mold, it is World-Ending-Abomination, the type of thing the Big Bad is usually trying to control/unleash.

[hamishspence]

That's usually referred to as "Bigger Bad".

Instead of looking at Team Evil as a Five Bad Band, and trying to see who fits what pre-chosen trope, instead maybe look at the characters themselves, and see what tropes approximately fit them.

The Character Sheet for OoTS:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/OrderOfTheStick

shows how this has already been done.

[SPoD]

Look, I hate TV Tropes for what it has done to our discussion of media. But at least read the terms Kish has quoted and understand their meaning before applying them based on visual appearances.

According to this one way of looking at characters, Tsukiko is obviously the Brute. She leads the minions into battle, she is the most sadistic (save Xykon himself), and she likes to get her hands dirty.

The MITD would then be the Dark Chick (despite being male). He acts wildly different from the others and is the most likely to be redeemed.

Xykon is the Big Bad, for obvious reasons. And Redcloak pulls double duty as the Evil Genius and the Dragon.

Jirix is just Redcloak's Watson. He doesn't rate full membership (yet). And the roaches are the Team Pet.

And now I just feel dirty inside.

[hamishspence]

True- I don't often edit TV tropes- but maybe those two could do with an edit.

My most recent edit was adding Leviathan melvillei to the Kraken & Leviathan page, as well as to More Teeth Than the Osmond Family.

[Nimrod's Son]

Why are you doing this?
I heard OotS is a TVTropes-based webcomic, and it's Rich Burlew's job to try and tick off each trope one by one.

I forget where; I read it on the internet somewhere. :smallwink: