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heymejack
2010-08-22, 02:23 PM
So I'm dming a game, and my girlfriend, who has always been into faeries, wants to play a pixie rogue. I want to make sure she doesn't suck, cuz she'll get bored in game when the cavalier is doing x5 damage on a charge and she's doing nothing.

luckily, she's picked a good combo. the pixie gets greater invis, and she wants to throw daggers. because she's staying invisible, she gets her sneak attack on every hit, as long as she's within 30 feet. she's taken a decent con, so with spell resistance and damage reduct, plus the fly speed of 60, she shouldn't have to worry about getting caught up in the main combat crossfire.

again though, she's doing this for the flava. there is, as mentioned before, a paladin/cavalier with a standard issue stick up his ass, and we've got this fun idea about how she's gonna just follow him around and play harmless tricks on him, but also use her rogue abilities to help him. she'll be hidden for the first few sessions, so the rest of the party is going to be trying to figure out why all these weird things are happening around them.

So, on to my question. it is two headed.

1. how can i get as much sneak attack as possible on her, and make her as good as possible with her daggers and such? I'm looking into swashbuckler and the daring outlaw feat, but I'm not too experienced with rogue builds, so I don't really know how to go about it. dont' forget, she's got the LA+4, so there are only 16 levels to play with.

2. mischief!? she's got a good use magic device score, as well, so there's fun to be had. right now she's got a wand of color spray, she's also planning on getting a wand of glitterdust. colors! and glitter! do you see the theme? so she'll be this invisible rogue, flying around the battlefield making crazy things happen, but also tearing people up with daggers/sneak attack when they mess with her friends. any ideas for other mischief toys like wands, scrolls, or whatever you can think of?

thanks in advance.

Arillius
2010-08-22, 02:37 PM
What edition are you using? Sorry if its obvious for some references but I only know two systems and only 1 rather well.

heymejack
2010-08-22, 02:56 PM
sorry, should have been more specific. i am using 3.5. mostly core, but a lot of complete warrior and adventurer, too. mostly anything from either the 'complete' series, or the 'races of' series. tome of battle is a no-no. I'm the DM though, so just throw out anything you got as long as its 3.5 (not pathfinder).

Arillius
2010-08-22, 02:59 PM
Alas, pathfinder is the only one I can really help you with. I never played 3.5. Good luck, and I hope it works out, sounds like a fun group.

gallagher
2010-08-22, 03:11 PM
have her go for a spellthief/sorcerer/unseen seer build. now she is a rogue that steals spells. much more interesting.

also, it is always exciting to get that odd spell that someone prepared for some reason. i stole a miser's greed once. cast it on a rubber ball. needless to say quite a few BSFs decided to act like children

heymejack
2010-08-22, 03:42 PM
not a bad idea, but i think she's much more interested in playing the more traditional rogue role, with traps and locks and such, and just dipping into the spellcasting side of things with the use magic device skill. what she really needs is better base attack, as much sneak attack as possible, maybe some feats/features that make her better with the throwing. is master thrower any good? and aren't there quite a few prestige classes that get sneak attack at first level? assassin doesn't work, because she's not going to be an evil pixie.

bansidhe
2010-08-22, 04:27 PM
Ok its d20 but try this for ideas.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871070/The_Pixie_Handbook

Pixies,gotta love em :)

John Cribati
2010-08-22, 04:31 PM
As far as pranks go: sleeping cavalier + Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity.

You can also, homebrew up a writing implement that's charged with a few uses of Explosive Runes.

Tyrmatt
2010-08-22, 05:19 PM
To be quite honest, aside from the Level Adjustment imposed by the standard Pixie, there's nothing wrong with that as a build. It synergises well. I believe Daring Outlaw is the standard way to add Sneak Attack to any rogue/swashbuckler build.
The only thing I would say is that always finish with an odd number of levels in classes that grant Sneak Attack. Since SA only advances on odd levels, taking 8 levels of 8 rogue and 8 of swashbuckler technically leaves you two levels short.
Perhaps add a couple of levels of Scout and take the Swift Ambusher feat to allow Sneak and Skirmish to synergise. Highly mobile, crazy wand toting fairy hitting for extra damage sounds like a winner to me.
Also if you only take 7 levels of rogue, adding 2 levels of Scout still gives you Imp. Uncanny Dodge and technically adds 1d6 to your SA as well.

So yeah, my idea is RHD4/Rogue7/Swashbuckler7/Scout2
Feats need to include Daring Outlaw and Swift Ambusher

thompur
2010-08-22, 06:05 PM
Will you allow her to buy off some of her LA(as in Unearthed Arcana)?

If so, a 1 level dip into Warlock for EB and a useful sneaky /mischevious invocation like Breath of Night(fog cloud), Baleful Utterance(Shatter), Summon Swarm, or AllSeeing Eye(+6 untyped bonus to Search and Spot, plus comprehend languages-written only). Sure the EB is only 1d6, but most of her damage will be from SA anyway, and she'll never be unarmed(barring anti-magic fields).

Oh, and Tyrmatt, I think you meant +4LA, not RHD.:smallsmile:

heymejack
2010-08-23, 12:09 AM
she is not going to be buying of LA.

just realized that she CAN cast 3rd level spells with her spell like abilities, and can thus take arcane trickster with only 1 level of sorc or wiz. so that might happen.

any ideas on good ways to combine rogue/swashbuckler/wiz/arcane trickster? or is it not even worth it to take the spells, since she'll never get high level spells?

Gorgondantess
2010-08-23, 12:17 AM
she is not going to be buying of LA.

just realized that she CAN cast 3rd level spells with her spell like abilities, and can thus take arcane trickster with only 1 level of sorc or wiz. so that might happen.
No, she can't. She can cast 3rd level SLAs, not 3rd level spells. BIG difference there.


any ideas on good ways to combine rogue/swashbuckler/wiz/arcane trickster? or is it not even worth it to take the spells, since she'll never get high level spells?
Quite simply, not worth it to take the spells. Standard build is usually rogue 4/swashbuckler 16 (or, in this case, 12). Take daring outlaw, you have 1 less than full BAB and sneak attack as a rogue of your level. Throw in a splash of factotum or swordsage, and you're good to go.
Of course, you can always just get silly with rogue/swashbuckler/beguiler/factotum/Unseen Seer/swordsage builds (which I've done to get 11th level beguiler casting, excellent SA and good BAB), but seeing as she's a beginner, probably best to stick to just a couple classes. As stated above, a warlock dip doesn't hurt. Beguiling influence is my favorite.

WinWin
2010-08-23, 12:17 AM
You will need at least 3 levels of rogue and 2 of Swashbucker to qualify for the Daring Outlaw feat. In theory you could jump into Arcane trickster from there.

BA will always be low...But being invisible can help in landing attacks.

Consider using Warlock from complete arcane. Less of a focus on spells and decent at ranged blasting. The eldrich blast can stack with sneak attack. The character can also get a couple of spell like abilities.

Gnomo
2010-08-23, 12:27 AM
Have you considered a regular throwing build with Master Thrower, that way she can land attacks as ranged touch attacks and not worrying about the low attack bonus.

Bakkan
2010-08-23, 02:34 AM
Make sure she gets an item of Prestidigitation, preferably at-will, to give her even more fun pranks to play.

thompur
2010-08-23, 12:11 PM
Make sure she gets an item of Prestidigitation, preferably at-will, to give her even more fun pranks to play.

Oh yes! Definitely! She could have a lot of fun with prestig...prestodig...
with that spell. Good call Bakkan!:smallbiggrin:

Enixon
2010-08-23, 02:40 PM
Just be careful, people seem to have a odd way of reacting to mischief by announcing:


:smallfurious:"Aha, such-and-such has launched an unprovoked attack at me! Clearly this itching powder was part of an attempt at my life! Even if we are in a safe inn in the middle of a peaceful town, I must defend my self with lethal force!!" (full attack on pixie)

Tetrasodium
2010-08-23, 03:32 PM
Savage species has some rules on making monster abilities into a class with levels. Using such a thing and nuking some of the level adjustment on it would be an option for improving it at the stuff you mention... plus I got the impression that this was a matter of your GF agreeing to play but wanting to play something cute & mischievous she's interested like a halfling shaped like a pixie with wings and flight, something like that alone would probably only be +1 or +2 LA depending on how generous you wanted to be.

wadledo
2010-08-23, 05:03 PM
Better than Pixie is Petal.
Also, I'd go for warlock instead of rogue.
Much funner and safer.

heymejack
2010-08-23, 05:05 PM
these are all excellent ideas, i really appreciate it, folks.

it's not at all like that. she had played before we ever met, and she's into it. she's just gotten bored with other characters ("well, i guess i'll full attack again")in the past, so we're going to make sure this one is as fun as possible. she's gonna full attack when she feels like it. for example, last game there were dire lions that escaped at a carnival, and they were ganging up on the goliath, so she went to a butcher stand, got a big piece of bloody meat, and then got a couple of the lions to chase her, giving the party some time to get organized. in a 7 round fight, she threw her daggers only twice. fun times, the guys were all laughing at pixie antics. it's gonna be great.

she is more into the rogue than the swashbuckler (willing to give up the BAB for more skills), but is definitely going to take 3 levels at the very least, for insightful strike (her int bonus is a +6). acrobatic strike is the first ability that is sort of useless to her (who needs flat ground with a fly speed of 60), so probably won't go past 6th, if she even gets that high.

now, however, i need a prestige class. she's got 16 levels to play with, but she gets her last sneak attack at level 15. should she go 13 rogue/3 swash, for insightful strike and that 13th level rogue special ability? or 12 rogue, 3 swash, and some prestige class that gets SA at first level? assassin is no good, cuz she's not evil.

again, i appreciate all your help.

Tyrmatt
2010-08-23, 05:59 PM
There's the Wandering Trickster prestige class which gives you some cool stunts to pull and 2/3 levels advance another class at the same time so it could be a handy little 3 level fill.

Warlock is a route I hadn't considered but I believe you can apply SA to your Eldritch Blast as well? That's pretty lethal. 4th level warlocks also get to take 10 on all UMD checks while threatened, meaning any effect you want to duplicate can be done with a wand any time you feel like it. Hard to fit in with the current rogue heaviness though.

Oh. Rod of Wonder. Totally forgot to mention it in my last post but it's the Trickster's Holy Grail of wild effects. That and tricking people into taking cards from the Deck of Many Things but given its status as a campaign eater, I disallow it.

@thompur: Yes, I did. Cheers for noticing. I have a hard time getting out of the Monster Hit Dice thing for Monsterish PCs.

Ranos
2010-08-23, 06:23 PM
Just be careful, people seem to have a odd way of reacting to mischief by announcing:


:smallfurious:"Aha, such-and-such has launched an unprovoked attack at me! Clearly this itching powder was part of an attempt at my life! Even if we are in a safe inn in the middle of a peaceful town, I must defend my self with lethal force!!" (full attack on pixie)

Yes, I think "Don't piss off the rich, murderous hobos" would just be good advice in general, not just for mischief-making pixies.

heymejack
2010-08-23, 07:55 PM
party infighting hasn't ever been a problem with this group. i don't really know what would happen if someone started swinging on the pixie. i imagine the other characters would kill him and destroy the body, thus preventing res and forcing the offending player to make a new character. One that is a little less likely to cause such problems.

seriously though, we do pvp stuff on the side, 3 on 3 battles on set playing fields. very fun, and helps with the party unity. havn't seen an in game pvp in a long time.

Enixon
2010-08-24, 01:34 PM
party infighting hasn't ever been a problem with this group. i don't really know what would happen if someone started swinging on the pixie. i imagine the other characters would kill him and destroy the body, thus preventing res and forcing the offending player to make a new character. One that is a little less likely to cause such problems. .

(sigh) the fact that I am pleasantly surprised to hear that really says a lot about the group I play with....... :smallfrown:

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-25, 09:40 AM
I am also going to suggest Warlock, possibly mixed in WITH Rogue.

Can you think of all the trouble she could get into with Shatter as an at-will SLA? I mean... the thousands of uses one could put that to alone is just... staggering.

Also Eldritch Glaive is just cool. Not for the "OMGWTFBBQ DAMAGE!" aspect, we're not going Hellfire here, just for the mental image of a 10' blade of coherent energy issuing and being swung by a 1' pixie. Think Yoda and his Lightsabre. Then double the Lightsabre's size and shrink Yoda down. Now you're getting it.