PDA

View Full Version : 3.5 Cohorts and LA+ Races



panaikhan
2010-08-22, 02:57 PM
Simple question, I think. Do I use ECL or actual class levels to adjudicate Cohorts?

Reading the DM's a Cohort's level starts at two levels below the Leadership character, and their XP is capped at one level below the Leadership character.

The issue is when a LA+ race selects the Leadership feat. Do they get burned again, or could the cohort actually end up with more class levels than it's Leader?

If there had been no mention of XP, I would not be in a quandry. Can anyone shed light on this?

Yorrin
2010-08-22, 03:17 PM
Generally you go with ECL. Precedent on this is established in the ELH, where all the example cohorts use ECL as their cohort level. There are some exceptions (LM gives some undead cohorts at something other than their ECL).

Jack_Simth
2010-08-22, 03:24 PM
If there had been no mention of XP, I would not be in a quandry. Can anyone shed light on this?
In either direction, there's a quandry.

Let's use the example of a Vampire Cleric-10 (LA+8, ECL 18) taking Leadership.

If his LA counts for purposes of Leadership, then he can have a Cohort as high as 16th level... who could Rebuke him into next Tuesday without much work. Who's the leader, again?

If his LA does not count for purposes of Leadership Score and Max Level of the Cohort, then when he tries to get a Vampire Cohort, he can't, because he only qualifies for 8th level Cohorts and the Vampire Template is +8 LA.

If the cohort's LA does not count, then you have the first problem again, but in a different manner - an ECL-40 templated monstrosity that could take down Mr. T on his own... is your cohort, because he's only got 15 hit dice and the LA doesn't count.

If I'm DMing, and the question comes up, my house-rule on the subject:
Your Leadership score is based on your character level, not your ECL. HOWEVER, if your cohort has the same templates you do, the LA from those templates does not count towards your cohort's ECL for purposes of how high of a level cohort you can have (If we're playing Gestalt, this gets modified further).

panaikhan
2010-08-22, 03:31 PM
If I'm DMing, and the question comes up, my house-rule on the subject:
Your Leadership score is based on your character level, not your ECL. HOWEVER, if your cohort has the same templates you do, the LA from those templates does not count towards your cohort's ECL for purposes of how high of a level cohort you can have (If we're playing Gestalt, this gets modified further).

if my LA is +2, and my cohort's is +2, then we are simply looking at Character Level, are we not? That's no different than saying 'XP cap'

Jack_Simth
2010-08-22, 08:15 PM
if my LA is +2, and my cohort's is +2, then we are simply looking at Character Level, are we not? That's no different than saying 'XP cap'
Oh, it is different.

It says a Drow Cleric-6 (ECL 8) can have a Drow Fighter-4 (ECL 6) Cohort, and the Half-Dragon Cleric-6 (ECL 9) can have a half-dragon Fighter-4 (ECL 7) Cohort, but if the Drow Cleric-6 (ECL 8) tries to get a half-Dragon Fighter, the Cleric gets a Half-Dragon Fighter-1 (ECL 1), as it's not *the same* LA. Likewise, the Drow-Cleric-6(ECL 8) can't get a Human Fighter-6 Cohort, as that's a level 6 character, and she's limited to level 4.

The idea of the house-rule is to get rid of the problems I listed - the player with a high-LA getting a cohort who can slaughter the player trivially (Vampire Player, regular Cleric), and the player with a high-LA not being able to get a cohort of his own type.

WinWin
2010-08-22, 11:47 PM
The undead leadership feat can help negate this. The Draconic cohort feat can also help. Obviously a template with a charisma bonus would be ideal. LA buyoff can help mitigate some of these problems...though losing experience can have it's own interactions with the leadership feat.

To give an example. A half Ogre LA+2, that aquires leadership at ECL 9 can have a cohort of max ECL 7. They would require a high enough leadership to have a cohort of this level. Buying off the LA would reduce the maximum level of the cohort. In theory, the cohort could use LA buyoff too.

As for critters like Vampires, they have their own method of gaining followers. Create Spawn is a racial feature and is in part factored into their ECL.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-08-23, 02:55 PM
Don't use leadership. Yes ECL, has problems (mainly with RHD), but cohorts are cheese. You get freaking 2 characters. With 2 feats you could be a wiz20 with a wiz19...

This is my own theory for why no one bothers. I think even WotC might have realized there was a problem... How many feats have a "level" prereq?

Amiria
2010-08-23, 05:06 PM
I our group we play with a house rule like that of Jack_Simth. My Lvl 16 drow Ranger/Warblade hath a Lvl 14 Drow Bard as a cohort*. Runs smoothly, if you are ok at all with leadership.

* = see avvies of them in signature spoiler