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Talakeal
2010-08-22, 10:23 PM
I am working on writing out a bestiary for my homebrew system but am having trouble when it comes to statting out real world animals. Although I am sure the information is out there, I am having trouble locating good referance material for the relative stats of various species (meaning Str, Dex, Con, Int, Cha, and Wis which I split wisdom into seperate willpower and perception attributes).

Obviously I could just estimate, but I would like some form of data to base this off of. I could also just use another RPGs stats, but I am not sure how accurate those are.

If anyone knows of any good referances, or has their own knowledge to share or evaluate the quality of another game system (for example the 3.5 MM) I would be very grateful.

Aroka
2010-08-22, 10:34 PM
Impossible task. How are you going to measure these attributes to begin with? It's easy (if inaccurate and simplistic) to measure, say, human strength as how much a person can bench/deadlift, but horses and bears aren't really known to bench much of anything.

Your best bet is to establish a baseline for humans (5, 10, 15, 20, whatever), and then go "is this animal better at this than the average human?", then compare the animals among each other. "Okay, cats and dogs are weaker than people, but cats are weaker than dogs..."

Lyndworm
2010-08-23, 12:31 AM
Unfortunately, Aroka is right. This seems to be a pretty much impossible task, but luckily s/he had a good idea. I would suggest following it.

If you're interested, I have homebrew stats for the aardwolf, dire hyena (Pachycrocuta brevirostris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachycrocuta_brevirostris)), giraffe, monstrous solipugids, spotted hyenas, and a bunch of specially-bred bats (like the desmodu, but different).

Also, shouldn't this be in Homebrew?

Talakeal
2010-08-23, 02:55 PM
Your best bet is to establish a baseline for humans (5, 10, 15, 20, whatever), and then go "is this animal better at this than the average human?", then compare the animals among each other. "Okay, cats and dogs are weaker than people, but cats are weaker than dogs..."

That is exactly what I was planning on doing, the problem is finding out said comparison. Is a black bear stronger than a horse? Is a monkey more dexterous than a cat? I am sure the data is out there, I just have no idea how to find it.

Aroka
2010-08-23, 04:44 PM
What sort of data would be out there? Who goes around testing bears' strength? And stronger at what? A bear can smack you harder, but a horse will probably pull things better. It's all so relative. You're creating a bunch of abstract measurements that don't actually correspond to anything in reality, and only exist to allow you to create an illusion of verisimilitude. It really doesn't matter that much which animals is stronger.

And in any case, for animals, it's pretty easy to just use size as strength - bigger is stronger. It's not accurate, but nothing else is going to be.

Andion Isurand
2010-08-23, 05:09 PM
Heres a thread on birds and whatnot.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159125

Talakeal
2010-08-23, 06:27 PM
What sort of data would be out there? Who goes around testing bears' strength? And stronger at what? A bear can smack you harder, but a horse will probably pull things better. It's all so relative. You're creating a bunch of abstract measurements that don't actually correspond to anything in reality, and only exist to allow you to create an illusion of verisimilitude. It really doesn't matter that much which animals is stronger.



Yes a creatures exact attributes are an abstract, but that doesn't mean that it isn't it isn't a quality of the animal that is measurable in game terms. Just like you don't need to compare every single muscle in both our bodies to determine, overall, I am not as strong as Mr. universe, likewise someone who is familiar with the animals in question could easily say that a gorilla is stronger than a human, or a cat is more agile than an alligator, or a shark has more endurance than an octopus.

Greenish
2010-08-23, 06:30 PM
Yes a creatures exact attributes are an abstract, but that doesn't mean that it isn't it isn't a quality of the animal that is measurable in game terms. Just like you don't need to compare every single muscle in both our bodies to determine, overall, I am not as strong as Mr. universe, likewise someone who is familiar with the animals in question could easily say that a gorilla is stronger than a human, or a cat is more agile than an alligator, or a shark has more endurance than an octopus.…Or that a baboon is stronger than a horse.

Eldan
2010-08-23, 06:51 PM
Yes a creatures exact attributes are an abstract, but that doesn't mean that it isn't it isn't a quality of the animal that is measurable in game terms. Just like you don't need to compare every single muscle in both our bodies to determine, overall, I am not as strong as Mr. universe, likewise someone who is familiar with the animals in question could easily say that a gorilla is stronger than a human, or a cat is more agile than an alligator, or a shark has more endurance than an octopus.

Wouldn't be so sure on that octopus. Just look how long they can hold their breath.

Anyway, it will be difficult. A cat certainly has much better balance, escape artist and tumble than a chimp, but you can bet the ape has more dexterous fingers.