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View Full Version : 3.5: Interesting Uses of a Spell Clock



Soren Hero
2010-08-23, 02:31 AM
hello play-grounders...i recently read an article on the wizards website about the spell clock and i've been trying to think of interesting/unexpected uses of it and I thought about combining a spell clock with genesis, that casts once a week...i don't know if it's entirely raw, because i'm not familiar with spell clock rules...i think it would cost 65,000 gp, 5000xp for the clock, plus a crystalline sphere and 5000xp for one casting of genesis..but for 10,000 experience, and 65,000 gp, you have a demiplane that will "infinitely" increase in size (the spell adds 180 ft to the radius with every casting, which is about 9360 ft every year)...sounds awesome...

so my question to the playground is: what are the most interesting/cheesy/noteworthy uses of a spell clock in your campaigns?

FelixG
2010-08-23, 05:30 AM
where is a spell clock from?

Aharon
2010-08-23, 05:34 AM
Sofawall's cube
Found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147304)

(Spellclock itself found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070312a))

Soren Hero
2010-08-23, 01:51 PM
sofawalls cube is pretty interesting, but I didn't see how it uses spellclocks at all

urbanpirate
2010-08-23, 08:21 PM
hello play-grounders...i recently read an article on the wizards website about the spell clock and i've been trying to think of interesting/unexpected uses of it and I thought about combining a spell clock with genesis, that casts once a week...i don't know if it's entirely raw, because i'm not familiar with spell clock rules...i think it would cost 65,000 gp, 5000xp for the clock, plus a crystalline sphere and 5000xp for one casting of genesis..but for 10,000 experience, and 65,000 gp, you have a demiplane that will "infinitely" increase in size (the spell adds 180 ft to the radius with every casting, which is about 9360 ft every year)...sounds awesome...

so my question to the playground is: what are the most interesting/cheesy/noteworthy uses of a spell clock in your campaigns?

i think your math is off.
the first paragraph of spell clock mentions it casting the stored spell every hour.
assuming a world with 24 hour day and 365 day year your spell clock would cast genesis 24 times a day, every day for a total of 8760 castings a year.
at 180 feet per casting you would have a demiplane with a 1576800 foot radius . (5280 feet per mile)

your demiplane at the end of one years casting would be 597.27repeating miles in diameter

just to compare earth has a diamater of 7,926.41 miles according to about.com

urbanpirate
2010-08-23, 08:23 PM
i reallly want one now:smallbiggrin:

Fax Celestis
2010-08-23, 08:25 PM
The Dream of Metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121334) is a good use of one (or at least, something like it).

Soren Hero
2010-08-23, 09:41 PM
i think your math is off.
the first paragraph of spell clock mentions it casting the stored spell every hour.
assuming a world with 24 hour day and 365 day year your spell clock would cast genesis 24 times a day, every day for a total of 8760 castings a year.
at 180 feet per casting you would have a demiplane with a 1576800 foot radius . (5280 feet per mile)

your demiplane at the end of one years casting would be 597.27repeating miles in diameter

just to compare earth has a diamater of 7,926.41 miles according to about.com

i didn't know that you had to cast the spell every hour, because the description on the wizards website set you could "set" it to go off on any interval you want...i figured that a spell with a long casting time required a longer interval between castings...genesis, for my example, takes an entire week to cast...if the spell clock can cast a spell instantaneously, and if i wanted to be cheesy, i guess it would be possible to set the spell clock to cast every minute, or even every second...giving me a demiplane with a radius of 94,608,000 ft (35836.36 miles in diameter), or a radius of 5,676,480,000 (2150181.82 miles in diameter) respectively each year...what makes this so epic is that the demiplance only costs 10,000 xp and 65,000 gp, to create the spell clock and one casting of genesis, as opposed to the xp cost for each individual casting of genesis (which at "once per second", every second for a year, would be 157,680,000,000)

Jack Zander
2010-08-23, 09:58 PM
I think the spell clock casts genesis every hour, but there is a 24 hour delay before they go off. Therefore, nothing happens for the first 24 hours, and then the plane starts growing every hour after that.

Lysander
2010-08-23, 10:07 PM
That spell clock article is painfully vague and open ended. It's basically a DM fiat machine. It really should have different prices based on spell level, spell duration, casting frequency, etc.

Soren Hero
2010-08-23, 10:27 PM
That spell clock article is painfully vague and open ended. It's basically a DM fiat machine. It really should have different prices based on spell level, spell duration, casting frequency, etc.

i completely agree...it seems WAAAYYY to cheesy...would placing a limit on the level of spell able to be keyed to a spell clock give it more balance? giving it the spell limit of its component spell, "imbue with spell ability", caps the potential to a second level spell...this makes the spell clock decidedly weaker, and less appealing to abuse...but, i must admit, the genesis spell clock for world building would be awesome

Lysander
2010-08-23, 10:44 PM
i completely agree...it seems WAAAYYY to cheesy...would placing a limit on the level of spell able to be keyed to a spell clock give it more balance? giving it the spell limit of its component spell, "imbue with spell ability", caps the potential to a second level spell...this makes the spell clock decidedly weaker, and less appealing to abuse...but, i must admit, the genesis spell clock for world building would be awesome

Limiting the spell level is a good idea, although if it's only level 2 spells and can't cast at an unlimited rate maybe the clock could actually be cheaper. Then higher level clocks could get exponentially more expensive, with 9th level clocks costing many millions of gold.

In addition to spell level you'd need to limit the casting frequency. One option is to give it a limited number of charges, like a staff or wand. What if it came in two varieties. The "permanent" option can cast it's spell up to twice a day, like an eternal wand. What time it casts is up to the maker, but it can't cast its spell more than twice in a 24 hour period. The other option has 50 charges which it can cast at any frequency, up to once per round. But once all the charges are expended the clock becomes nonmagical.

Basically to balance it change it from a free magic machine into an automated wand.

Soren Hero
2010-08-23, 11:54 PM
Limiting the spell level is a good idea, although if it's only level 2 spells and can't cast at an unlimited rate maybe the clock could actually be cheaper. Then higher level clocks could get exponentially more expensive, with 9th level clocks costing many millions of gold.

In addition to spell level you'd need to limit the casting frequency. One option is to give it a limited number of charges, like a staff or wand. What if it came in two varieties. The "permanent" option can cast it's spell up to twice a day, like an eternal wand. What time it casts is up to the maker, but it can't cast its spell more than twice in a 24 hour period. The other option has 50 charges which it can cast at any frequency, up to once per round. But once all the charges are expended the clock becomes nonmagical.

Basically to balance it change it from a free magic machine into an automated wand.

i think this might work...what about: set to 1/hr casting limit for a 24 hour period (for a maximum of 24 casts per day), cost to create would include all material components, experience components, spell components for casting the spell, up to 24 times. The only thing i can't balance would be how many times you'd have to cast the component spells. Permanency requires an xp cost to cast, but it doesn't give a baseline for how much each spell level affects the xp cost, but Teleportation Circle is a ninth level spell, and it costs 4500 xp to render it permanent. So I guess a good baseline is 500xp for each spell level (4500 for a ninth level spell). Would it make sense to require 1 casting of permanency for the creation of a spell clock no matter the level, or for each time the spell is set to go off (so 24/day would require 24 castings of permanency)? The cost of contingency is simply gold, it requires 1500 per casting of the spell, so anywhere from 1500-36,000 gp (1/day to 24/day) for any level of spell. Imbue with spell ability doesn't require any cost RAW, so it wouldn't cost anything unless I give it an arbitrary value.

For the genesis example, 1/hr for 24 hours would require 24 castings of genesis, which amounts to 65,000 gp (Debatable Base Cost) + 5000xp (Debatable XP cost) + 24 castings of genesis(5000xp*24 casts=120,000 xp) + 1-24 castings of permanency (4500-108,000xp) + 1-24 castings of contingency (1500-36,000 gp) + 1-24 castings of imbue with spell ability (no cost RAW) = 66,500 gp and 14,500 xp (1/day or 24/day with no scaling) or 101,000 gp and 208,500 xp (scaled 24/day spell clock). 208,500 xp is nothing to shake a stick at, so it would need an epic level spellcaster, really good cost-reducing methods or ways to generate spare xp to create that level of spell clock.

How does that sound?

Aharon
2010-08-24, 05:25 AM
@Sofawall's Cube
Ah, sorry, it must have been mentioned in another thread about the cube. He used a spell clock to spam 40 Walls of Dispel Magic a round (the clocks work with real time, not rounds, so you could, if the DM isn't fond of throwing books at you, set it to release its spell every 0.15 seconds).

urbanpirate
2010-08-24, 08:39 AM
is there any other published material on the spell clock. that article is fairly limited and really poorly put together.

but i really like the concept.

Soren Hero
2010-08-24, 02:39 PM
i don't think there is any published article on the spell clock, other than the article on the wizard's website...the spell clock definitely needs a lot of work to be balanced

Lysander
2010-08-24, 02:55 PM
i think this might work...what about: set to 1/hr casting limit for a 24 hour period (for a maximum of 24 casts per day), cost to create would include all material components, experience components, spell components for casting the spell, up to 24 times. The only thing i can't balance would be how many times you'd have to cast the component spells. Permanency requires an xp cost to cast, but it doesn't give a baseline for how much each spell level affects the xp cost, but Teleportation Circle is a ninth level spell, and it costs 4500 xp to render it permanent. So I guess a good baseline is 500xp for each spell level (4500 for a ninth level spell). Would it make sense to require 1 casting of permanency for the creation of a spell clock no matter the level, or for each time the spell is set to go off (so 24/day would require 24 castings of permanency)? The cost of contingency is simply gold, it requires 1500 per casting of the spell, so anywhere from 1500-36,000 gp (1/day to 24/day) for any level of spell. Imbue with spell ability doesn't require any cost RAW, so it wouldn't cost anything unless I give it an arbitrary value.

For the genesis example, 1/hr for 24 hours would require 24 castings of genesis, which amounts to 65,000 gp (Debatable Base Cost) + 5000xp (Debatable XP cost) + 24 castings of genesis(5000xp*24 casts=120,000 xp) + 1-24 castings of permanency (4500-108,000xp) + 1-24 castings of contingency (1500-36,000 gp) + 1-24 castings of imbue with spell ability (no cost RAW) = 66,500 gp and 14,500 xp (1/day or 24/day with no scaling) or 101,000 gp and 208,500 xp (scaled 24/day spell clock). 208,500 xp is nothing to shake a stick at, so it would need an epic level spellcaster, really good cost-reducing methods or ways to generate spare xp to create that level of spell clock.

How does that sound?

I'm not sure if teleportation circles are a completely ideal basis because even though its 9th level it's essentially casting a 7th level spell (greater teleport) without limit. Also TC's are stationary, while spell clocks are mobile.

Maybe spell clocks could be priced at a similar cost to items with comprable powers? For example, a spell clock that provides constant invisibility for one person at a time could cost about as much as a ring of invisibility. One that casts often enough to keep two people invisible would cost as much as two rings. Etc.

Soren Hero
2010-08-24, 03:07 PM
I'm not sure if teleportation circles are a completely ideal basis because even though its 9th level it's essentially casting a 7th level spell (greater teleport) without limit. Also TC's are stationary, while spell clocks are mobile.

Maybe spell clocks could be priced at a similar cost to items with comprable powers? For example, a spell clock that provides constant invisibility for one person at a time could cost about as much as a ring of invisibility. One that casts often enough to keep two people invisible would cost as much as two rings. Etc.

i think it would be entirely possible...the tc example was just the basis for xp costs for using permanency...however, some potential powers that you could connect to a spell clock don't necessarily have items that have those powers...for my genesis example, there are no items that provide a similar effect to compare pricing to...your method would definitely work for buffs and items that have comparable spells...but what about spells with no item to compare to?

Tyndmyr
2010-08-26, 10:59 PM
I suspect a repeatable item of genesis isn't actually as broken as it would first appear. After all, it merely makes the plane larger. Essentially all the shenanigans that can be done with a plane require only a minimally sized one. Anyone interested in making a plane as large as possible is instead after world-building, the intended purpose of the spell.

It strikes me as a terrific possibility for a plot device. I hate searching for worthless MacGuffins...but figuring out the location of a device that created the plane you're in? And figuring out how to restart it? Potential awesomeness, and interesting results.

Lysander
2010-08-26, 11:49 PM
What makes Genesis a tricky spell to price in particular, more so than most 9th level spells, is that it has an xp cost of 5,000. Basically a Genesis clock would have the same price as a Wish clock. Since a Wish clock is broken for obvious reasons that's a no-go. Unless perhaps there was some faustian price, for example the wisher had to provide the xp or the clock was fiendish in origin and demanded your soul for a wish, etc.

I think it'll be easier to price than you think in general though, simply because pretty much every buff has an item that grants it. Or if not, you can simply price it off a buff of similar effect, power, or spell level.

One thing that might help balance it, if you do want it to cast a spell every hour, is to shorten the duration. For example, let's say a spell would usually have a 24 hour duration. The spell clock version might cast it 24 times, but with an hour duration each time. Or for shorten spells, it might just last a few rounds instead of a few minutes.

Coidzor
2010-08-27, 12:10 AM
What makes Genesis a tricky spell to price in particular, more so than most 9th level spells, is that it has an xp cost of 5,000. Basically a Genesis clock would have the same price as a Wish clock. Since a Wish clock is broken for obvious reasons that's a no-go. Unless perhaps there was some faustian price, for example the wisher had to provide the xp or the clock was fiendish in origin and demanded your soul for a wish, etc.

Really, you're out of the realm of creating items for in-play use and creating plot devices/world generating tools in universe by that point.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-27, 12:17 AM
By the time making a repeating device that casts Genesis is your goal, getting wishes is fairly trivial.

I suggest looking at spell traps for comparable pricing, since a spell clock is really just a specialized form of spell trap.

Soren Hero
2010-08-27, 05:41 AM
By the time making a repeating device that casts Genesis is your goal, getting wishes is fairly trivial.

I suggest looking at spell traps for comparable pricing, since a spell clock is really just a specialized form of spell trap.

i agree with Tyndmyr, but for different reasons...a spell clock of wish looks awesome at first...wish by its very nature is a useful spell to have...it gets you inherent bonuses, extra nonmagical wealth, magical wealth, duplicate lower level spells, resurrection, healing afflictions, transport, or undo misfortune...pretty powerful abilities in and of themselves...

however,the spell clock makes the use of wish difficult, because the nature of the spell is multifaceted...the spell can apply to many different targets, a few targets, one target, no target, etc...the wish's ability to duplicate lower level spells are a moot point really, because it would be cheaper to have the spell directly linked to the clock, instead of using a once an hour wish...inherent bonuses are always nice, as a +5 bonus to all stats is a major increase, the +5 cap prevents too much cheese...resurrection cast every hour could be a major factor in the outcome of wars...it makes armies much, much stronger...removing afflictions and healing all damage is great as well, because boss fights can be tough, and battles have a way of wearing people down...undoing misfortune can be great, but the once an hour casting makes it difficult to really be effective...

it all boils down to who would be designated to choose the benefits...would it fall to the crafter or the person making the wish? RAW, it could go both ways...if the creator gets to decide the specific type of wish granted, it narrows the scope for wish shenanigans...for example, a wish spell clock that only heals afflictions is a powerful asset more often than not...but a spell clock that raises one attribute, say strength for example, is initial very powerful, but over time its usefulness diminishes...if the person getting the wish has the choice, then the spell clock is granting free wishes to people...

one interesting application of the spell clock/wish combo, would be to have the disposable type of spell clock keyed to the wish ability to undo recent misfortune...something bad happens, hit the clock, undo the event...its like having a get out of jail free card...

Tyndmyr
2010-08-27, 11:36 AM
Even if it only boosts strength, it still has potential, though. Imagine the value for a king who wants beefy guards/army?

It's amazingly useful as a plot device, less so in the hands of a character(though still of some use). I like things such as this, they're generally extremely easy to wrap story around, and get something unique.

Soren Hero
2010-08-27, 02:09 PM
Even if it only boosts strength, it still has potential, though. Imagine the value for a king who wants beefy guards/army?

It's amazingly useful as a plot device, less so in the hands of a character(though still of some use). I like things such as this, they're generally extremely easy to wrap story around, and get something unique.

i agree with the king example...but wishes have much more utility than just raising attributes...and spell clocks would be better utilized with other spells tied to them...for the king example, instead of wish for beefing up the army, use shapechange, or polymorph, or ironbody, or mass heal...

whoa, just thought of a great use of a disposable spell clock with reserve gravity...have it set to go off in the way of a marching army, or in the ranks of a stationary army, and voila, you've bought a surprise round for an ambush and controlled the battle field for a while