Murphy's Law 4 (4 Times The Mayhem!)

[SpekterofDavid]

You have every right to criticise; but I believe you're wrong.

Lloyd is not a sue. Sues are, by definition, perfect. Someone who is perfect has no bad backstory. What's more, Lloyd has actual backstory and isn't loved automatically by everyone.

Plus, every comedy needs a straight guy.

Your right. Its not as much loyd as much as everybody constantly gasping around him. Just cut back on that and you get yourself some mighty fine comedy.

[Lord Raziere]

Technically, someone who's evil but who continually challenges his nature to do the right thing wouldn't fall. If anything, he has more merit than the guy who was born with perfect morals.

yea, in fact that sounds like a good character to write about: someone who knows everything he wants to do is wrong and selfish, and has to resist to giving into temptation at every possible moment because he knows that wouldn't be right. In fact I'm stealing that idea thank you very much.

[John Cribati]

Actually, being perfect is not the criteria for being a Mary Sue. Rather, it has to do with how the author treats the character. If Lloyd never made a mistake and is lauded above everyone else, and whatever he says goes, no questions asked, and the plot revolves around him at all times, then he'd be Marty Stu worthy of being killed with fire. Although it's hard to like a character with no flaws, lack of flaws alone does not a Mary Sue make.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Your right. Its not as much loyd as much as everybody constantly gasping around him. Just cut back on that and you get yourself some mighty fine comedy.

This isn't just comedy. I've got a story to tell here. And what do you mean by "Gasping around him?"

[Allan Surgite]

Can a topic really be locked for informing someone of something on a relatively religious note? :smallconfused:


Sues are, by definition, perfect.
Enhhh, not really. The classical "Mary Sue" is indeed flawless, but a problem arises with certain denizens of the Internet hurling it around as a catch-all term for "I don't like this character and this is a massive flaw with it." And besides which, a well-written Mary Sue is a lot better than a poorly-written character of any other breed; you could be as complex as my intelligence is shallow (which is to say, very) and still be a horrible character.

Which is why you can have "super-flawed Sues", "villainous Sues" and so on; the term's become so decayed due to it being used as a mud-hurling technique for a character you don't like that you may as well say that "your character breathes", for almost all characters can be interpreted into Sue-ism.

Lloyd could still, hypothetically speaking, be a Sue; I don't support this viewpoint, but the term is dreadfully bogged down. If this interpretation causes irritation, then part of the problem could be Lloyd's portrayal. Of course, I have little doubt that Lloyd will be shown screwing up a few times, which should remove any Sue scruples from passing commentators.

Anyway, comments on what happened since I stopped replying... that'd be #76, I think.

#76 - A humorous reference and there's some nice development of the Matt/Radic dynamic.

#77 - I'm unfamiliar with the Mark of Justice, so I'm presuming it's a magical charm that gives surveillance of the user/prevents them from committing Evil acts? Since if it's the latter, I can understand the reluctance of the former bandit to accept it.

#78 - Oh, idiotic obedience to the letter of the law, how I have disdain for thee.

#79 - It's nice to see more reinforcement of the paladin population at large distancing themselves from the Kago variant, although it begs the question why they keep the title when it is stained with stigma from Kago.

#80 - I quite dislike the retort of "Not fallen = liked by Astrid." It's clever, yes, but it only means something if the rules are concrete/Astrid is a strict deity. She could frown at it, but think that it isn't enough to lose a follower over; while not quite blasphemy, then at least something of a bee in Astrid's godly bonnet. Of course, one could say that Astrid wants her followers to embrace knowledge, but it's quite clear from Janine's reaction that this isn't common knowledge among her followers, and could still be blasphemy according to the church's law. However, this assumes that Astrid isn't divinely dictating her laws to the church, which is quite possible in a world such as this. I'll stop here before I get into a flaming row with myself over what Astrid may or may not want.

#81 - Quite clearly a lead-in to a subsequent strip. The third panel seems to be quite the oddity, so I shall enjoy reading more on who/what is Quark at a later point.

[SpekterofDavid]

This isn't just comedy. I've got a story to tell here. And what do you mean by "Gasping around him?"

You know, everybody but the misunderstood "Goblins/ Dragons/ Orcs" are always saying stuff like "Gasp, Goblins/ evil Religion/ Dragons are evil! How can you not be evil!" When all the standard evil dnd races are actually simply misunderstood and everybody just goes around stereotypically harassing them, then its annoying. If their very nature is good, how can they be constantly viewed evil (i know the answer to that but its so old and tired)? How about having Orcs wandering the street as normal as dwarves?

[HalfTangible]

yea, in fact that sounds like a good character to write about: someone who knows everything he wants to do is wrong and selfish, and has to resist to giving into temptation at every possible moment because he knows that wouldn't be right. In fact I'm stealing that idea thank you very much.

... Aw man :smallfrown:

[Allan Surgite]

If something has a good nature, people don't always see it as good.

For an example within the work, see elves. They're mostly seen as haughty friends of nature, yet this is untrue; it's simply a stereotype. The "evil races" are much the same; perhaps, in the past, they were entirely evil. Or perhaps they used to be a big menace (e.g. banditry for, ahem, "teh lulz") and society shunned them. Not just the bandits, all of them. And people don't change "just because" - if their grandfather hates orcs, why shouldn't they?

There are real-life examples for this, but I've given to understand that the real world is a no-no on this forum.

[CoffeeIncluded]

If something has a good nature, people don't always see it as good.

For an example within the work, see elves. They're mostly seen as haughty friends of nature, yet this is untrue; it's simply a stereotype. The "evil races" are much the same; perhaps, in the past, they were entirely evil. Or perhaps they used to be a big menace (e.g. banditry for, ahem, "teh lulz") and society shunned them. Not just the bandits, all of them. And people don't change "just because" - if their grandfather hates orcs, why shouldn't they?

There are real-life examples for this, but I've given to understand that the real world is a no-no on this forum.

Yep. And we'll see more of an explanation in the next couple of comics.

[Raz_Fox]

Sues are, by definition, perfect. Someone who is perfect has no bad backstory.

*twitch, twitch*

I... take it you have never read some of the Mary Sue fanfictions I have. The ones where Mary has an OMIGOSHHORRIBLEPAST and was ABUSED AS A CHILD and MUST BE COMFORTED ASAP NAKED KTHNX.

A Mary Sue is someone who the story revolves around, and their flaws are merely excuses to be fawned upon by everyone else; a tragic and horribly dark backstory is the BEST flaw to have because it allows you - er, your completely original character to get sympathy and be beloved by everyone while still having an excuse for acting like a jerk because TRAGIC PAST DON'T JUDGE ME.

...On a related note, I highly doubt that Lloyd is a Sue of any stripe or form.

[Lix Lorn]

Wrong kind of bad;
That's an ANGSTY backstory. Common. XD

Lloyd's is a bad backstory-he did bad things. (Supposedly)

[Dark Faun]

I'd pay to see Lloyd go TRAGIC PAST DON'T JUDGE ME on someone though. :smallbiggrin:

[CoffeeIncluded]

*twitch, twitch*

I... take it you have never read some of the Mary Sue fanfictions I have. The ones where Mary has an OMIGOSHHORRIBLEPAST and was ABUSED AS A CHILD and MUST BE COMFORTED ASAP NAKED KTHNX.

A Mary Sue is someone who the story revolves around, and their flaws are merely excuses to be fawned upon by everyone else; a tragic and horribly dark backstory is the BEST flaw to have because it allows you - er, your completely original character to get sympathy and be beloved by everyone while still having an excuse for acting like a jerk because TRAGIC PAST DON'T JUDGE ME.

...On a related note, I highly doubt that Lloyd is a Sue of any stripe or form.

Ugh, I hate those. And thanks.

I'd pay to see Lloyd go TRAGIC PAST DON'T JUDGE ME on someone though. :smallbiggrin:

Please, not even if he were drunk.

Lloyd would probably be a brooding drunk. Matt and Serrin would stand on the bar table and sing a rousing rendition of "The Hedgehog Song" together.

[HalfTangible]

Janine acts drunk 24/7 all the time, Tinder would destroy everything no matter what kind of drunk he was (dragon >.>) and Radic strikes me as an angry drunk.

[RdMarquis]

Lloyd would probably be a brooding drunk. Matt and Serrin would stand on the bar table and sing a rousing rendition of "The Hedgehog Song" together.

What's the Hedgehog Song?

[Marnath]

What's the Hedgehog Song?

I also wonder this. We can haz lyrics plx? Kthnxbai! :smalltongue:

[RdMarquis]

Chameon just PMed me some information on it. Let's just say it describes the circumstances under which one could do something...unnatural with a bewildering variety of animals (except for the hedgehog). The lyrics are a little vulgar for this board, but you could find them easily with a Google search.

[SpekterofDavid]

Well I guess thats my view of it. It may not be yours so I guess this this comic is not for me, sorry. I could proceed to explain my opinion, but its just that, an opinion. It may not be yours and apparently is not intended for the audience.

[HypoSoc]

The Hedgehog Song is from Discworld by Terry Pratchett. Its just a very vulgar song for drunks.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I also wonder this. We can haz lyrics plx? Kthnxbai! :smalltongue:


Chameon just PMed me some information on it. Let's just say it describes the circumstances under which one could do something...unnatural with a bewildering variety of animals (except for the hedgehog). The lyrics are a little vulgar for this board, but you could find them easily with a Google search.


The Hedgehog Song is from Discworld by Terry Pratchett. Its just a very vulgar song for drunks.

Yeah, I'd be in trouble if I posted it in full. As to how these two would know the song and why they would sing it? Well, Serrin can be a lot naughtier than she is (Let's just say that if they had to catch a unicorn, it would have to be Radic), and Matt is Matt.


Well I guess thats my view of it. It may not be yours so I guess this this comic is not for me, sorry. I could proceed to explain my opinion, but its just that, an opinion. It may not be yours and apparently is not intended for the audience.

Hm?

[Lix Lorn]

All that I thought was
'See the little hedgehog, see his little feet...'

[HalfTangible]

Hm?

Basically he said 'this comic isn't for me. thanks anyway'

I think :smallconfused: could be wrong

[SpekterofDavid]

Hm?

Look, if I went to a Horror movie and expecting Drama and yell at the screen for lack of it it just makes me look stupid.

I find the constant repetition of a enlightened individual constantly saving misunderstood races (From what I consider) stereoscopically dumb mob to be annoying. Since I am the only one who finds it this way it obviously means there is something wrong with me.

Aka this comic is simply not for me.

[Marnath]

Look, if I went to a Horror movie and expecting Drama and yell at the screen for lack of it it just makes me look stupid.

I find the constant repetition of a enlightened individual constantly saving misunderstood races (From what I consider) stereoscopically dumb mob to be annoying. Since I am the only one who finds it this way it obviously means there is something wrong with me.

Aka this comic is simply not for me.

If that's true I have to wonder why you keep reading it? :smallconfused:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Look, if I went to a Horror movie and expecting Drama and yell at the screen for lack of it it just makes me look stupid.

I find the constant repetition of a enlightened individual constantly saving misunderstood races (From what I consider) stereoscopically dumb mob to be annoying. Since I am the only one who finds it this way it obviously means there is something wrong with me.

Aka this comic is simply not for me.

It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, and there's a lot more to the comic than that. Everybody and everything has their own issues to get past. Janine has serious sexual hangups for her to deal with. Matt has to stop being a jerk. Radic needs to be more easygoing and less of a show-off.

But if you don't want to read the comic, that's absolutely fine.

[SpekterofDavid]

It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, and there's a lot more to the comic than that. Everybody and everything has their own issues to get past. Janine has serious sexual hangups for her to deal with. Matt has to stop being a jerk. Radic needs to be more easygoing and less of a show-off.

But if you don't want to read the comic, that's absolutely fine.

Ok. But I still say your comics good, just not for me.

[Marnath]

I just realized there aren't any small sized members of the adventuring party(fir doesn't count:smalltongue:). Maybe they'll join up with what's-his-name after he's rezzed?

[Mina Kobold]

I just realized there aren't any small sized members of the adventuring party(fir doesn't count:smalltongue:). Maybe they'll join up with what's-his-name after he's rezzed?

They are four humans and a half-elf.

I don't think Coffee was going for equal representation in the party :smalltongue:

[Dusk Eclipse]

They are four humans, a freaking dragon and a half-elf.

I don't think Coffee was going for equal representation in the party :smalltongue:

FTFY:smalltongue:

[Marnath]

D'aaaww, wheres the halfling/gnome love? :smallbiggrin:

[Mina Kobold]

FTFY:smalltongue:

Oh right.

Well he was a plot point so he doesn't count.

And neither does the pixies, they were green.

Why yes, I do lack sleep

[Dusk Eclipse]

D'aaaww, wheres the halfling/gnome love? :smallbiggrin:

Have you seen a webcomic Called order of the stick? it is a D&D comic which have like the most awesomest* character and he is a sexy shoeles god of war, though he masquerades as a halfling

:tongue:

*[Blatant lies]

[Jjeinn-tae]

D'aaaww, wheres the halfling/gnome love? :smallbiggrin:

We see that Halfling (Gnome?) with a ridiculous amount of axes, traveling with the orc spellcaster occasionally, though we probably won't see them again, at least for a while. I was holding out for them to join the party, not going to happen though... Though if we do see them again, that raises the question of why they seem to be following Lloyd and Co.

[Asta Kask]

Trust me on this one. Lloyd is far from perfect. For one thing, we already know that he has some serious skeletons in his closet.

Don't Janine get a Turning ability?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Don't Janine get a Turning ability?

:smallsigh: really hope that was a joke Asta...
:smalltongue:

[CoffeeIncluded]

They are four humans and a half-elf.

I don't think Coffee was going for equal representation in the party :smalltongue:

Tinder.


FTFY:smalltongue:

Thank you.


Oh right.

Well he was a plot point so he doesn't count.

No. You're wrong.


We see that Halfling (Gnome?) with a ridiculous amount of axes, traveling with the orc spellcaster occasionally, though we probably won't see them again, at least for a while. I was holding out for them to join the party, not going to happen though... Though if we do see them again, that raises the question of why they seem to be following Lloyd and Co.

Hector's a halfling. And no, they're not following Lloyd and Co. :smalltongue:

[Marnath]

FTFY:smalltongue:

I don't know this one yet. What's FTFY?

[Asta Kask]

Fixed That For You.

[Maximum Zersk]

Hm, I just caught up. Interesting.

One main thing that bugs me is the seemingly chaotic distribution of the word bubbles. Also, the font could be a bit more readable.

But the characters seem interesting. At least, they learn from their mistakes.

And thank god, finally a story where the main character objects to senselessly mowing down mooks! :smalltongue:

[Mina Kobold]

No. You're wrong.


I know, I was joking.

The pixies were obviously cyan :smalltongue:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Okay, I spent a LOT of time on this. Enjoy!

#82: As The Stories Say
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/AsTheStoriesSay.png

[Draconi Redfir]

broken image

[CoffeeIncluded]

Try it now.

[Lix Lorn]

Coffee... that's... AWESOME!

[CoffeeIncluded]

Coffee... that's... AWESOME!

Thanks! What do you like best about it?

[HalfTangible]

I like how the method by which the fuzzy flashbackiness was formed isn't easily discernable

[Lix Lorn]

Well, the grainy texture really works-although, it's not consistent. Also... you're a great storyteller.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I like how the method by which the fuzzy flashbackiness was formed isn't easily discernable


Well, the grainy texture really works-although, it's not consistent. Also... you're a great storyteller.

Thank you. I actually had this planned out from the start. And the problems with the grainy texture are the fault of the export.

[CWater]

...Wow. You know, it has been quite a while since I was last rendered speachless here in the playground. That one's amazing!:smallcool:

And I like the story of creation too:smallsmile:
Is Fate female by the way? I can't really see it on this crappy screen..

[CoffeeIncluded]

...Wow. You know, it has been quite a while since I was last rendered speachless here in the playground. That one's amazing!:smallcool:

And I like the story of creation too:smallsmile:
Is Fate female by the way? I can't really see it on this crappy screen..

:smallbiggrin: Thanks. I spent a lot of time and effort on this one. You like my depiction of Aequar?

And yes, Fate is female. She's Fortune's sister. The faeish creature in the second panel with Astrid, Isarus, and Don is Twist; Fate and Fortune adopt him.

[Lord Loss]

Great creation story. It reminds me of Shojo's Scribble-explanation.

[Dark Faun]

I love how Astrid loses her grainy texture when the other deities help her to descent on Aequar.

[Draconi Redfir]

Ok let me see if i can guess the gods.

Starting from 12-o'clock and going clockwise:

Fortune

Air

Timat

Fire

Fate

Earth

Astrid

Water.



im assuming isarus, don, and whoever the fairy is were raised up to godhood at a later date.

[Dark Faun]

im assuming isarus, don, and whoever the fairy is were raised up to godhood at a later date.
This is exactly what the narration in the second panel says. :smalltongue:

Or at least implies.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Great creation story. It reminds me of Shojo's Scribble-explanation.

Thank you!


I love how Astrid loses her grainy texture when the other deities help her to descent on Aequar.

I wish I could take credit for it, but it was an mistake in the exporting.


Ok let me see if i can guess the gods.

Starting from 12-o'clock and going clockwise:

Fortune

Air

Timat

Fire

Fate

Earth

Astrid

Water.



im assuming isarus, don, and whoever the fairy is were raised up to godhood at a later date.

Yep. And the fairy-like creature is Twist, who is adopted by Fate and Fortune.

[Asta Kask]

I'm impressed. And I don't say that often.

[Mina Kobold]

I'm also impressed, but I do say that often...

I know! I'll award you with an imaginary award of awesome!

Because that comic was very good and very well written :smallsmile:

[Marnath]

How come Tiamat is red and gold this time around? Does that make her the Goddess of all dragons or something? Normally she has five heads.

[Symmys]

I like how Tiamat isn't power-hungry and crazy, but instead is nice and benevolent and cares about the dragons of the world. It makes me happy to see that.

[Mystic Muse]

I like how Tiamat isn't power-hungry and crazy, but instead is nice and benevolent and cares about the dragons of the world. It makes me happy to see that.

I wouldn't be too sure of that just yet. We have one page of backstory of all the gods so there isn't a lot of detail, and one of the "pure" elementals has an inverted pentagram on it which is usually not a good sign.

[HalfTangible]

I wouldn't be too sure of that just yet. We have one page of backstory of all the gods so there isn't a lot of detail, and one of the "pure" elementals has an inverted pentagram on it which is usually not a good sign.

A pentagram is already inverted >.> Also "whuh?"

[Mystic Muse]

A pentagram is already inverted >.> Also "whuh?"

Too much TV possibly. It's usually a sign of dark magic in the shows I've watched, or has religious connections that I can't elaborate on on these boards.

[CoffeeIncluded]

How come Tiamat is red and gold this time around? Does that make her the Goddess of all dragons or something? Normally she has five heads.


I like how Tiamat isn't power-hungry and crazy, but instead is nice and benevolent and cares about the dragons of the world. It makes me happy to see that.

Yep, Tiamat is the goddess of all dragons and presumably the one who planted the seeds of magic in the world. I changed all this stuff on purpose.


I wouldn't be too sure of that just yet. We have one page of backstory of all the gods so there isn't a lot of detail, and one of the "pure" elementals has an inverted pentagram on it which is usually not a good sign.

No, it's a representation of a snowflake.

[Mystic Muse]

No, it's a representation of a snowflake.

Okay then. I'm just crazy. It doesn't look much like a snowflake to me though.

[Mina Kobold]

Too much TV possibly. It's usually a sign of dark magic in the shows I've watched, or has religious connections that I can't elaborate on on these boards.

That's a common misconception back from when some religions tried to undermine the older religions back in the middle ages.

It was originally a pictogram meaning 'corner' or 'hole' and have been used for various purposes since (including mathematics in ancient Greece)

But what I believe it symbolises here is just magic, presumably summoning magic as that have a connection to pentagrams in modern literature

[Darklord Xavez]

The Hedgehog Song is from Discworld by Terry Pratchett. Its just a very vulgar song for drunks.

Just like "The Wizard's Staff has a Knob on the End," right?
-Xavez

[Mystic Muse]

That's a common misconception back from when some religions tried to undermine the older religions back in the middle ages.

It was originally a pictogram meaning 'corner' or 'hole' and have been used for various purposes since (including mathematics in ancient Greece)

But what I believe it symbolises here is just magic, presumably summoning magic as that have a connection to pentagrams in modern literature

Ah okay.

Now, we should get off of this topic before it starts breaking board rules.

I must say that I like your idea of a dragon god who created all dragons Coffee. I don't know if I'll ever use it in a campaign of mine (I like Bahamut and Tiamat too much.) but I like it.

[HalfTangible]

Too much TV possibly. It's usually a sign of dark magic in the shows I've watched, or has religious connections that I can't elaborate on on these boards.

the 'whu' was because i didn't see any pentagram on the elementals =/ i know what a pentagram is. It's supposed to represent <censored due to real world religious discussion> and thats why the movie transformers was full of more brown than the :sigh: face.

[Mystic Muse]

the 'whu' was because i didn't see any pentagram on the elementals =/ i know what a pentagram is. It's supposed to represent <censored due to real world religious discussion> and thats why the movie transformers will never happen in real life.

The Snowflake on the frost elemental looks like a Pentagram to me. But, like I said, I'm crazy.

[Jjeinn-tae]

This looks good, was it done by hand? It almost looks like it was.

There's a typo in the first panel (Giants Elementals) not sure if that's something you can fix here though. Sorry I'm a programmer, stuff like that jump jumps out at me.


Edit: and I catch one of my own as I'm submitting.

[CoffeeIncluded]

This looks good, was it done by hand? It almost looks like it was.

There's a typo in the first panel (Giants Elementals) not sure if that's something you can fix here though. Sorry I'm a programmer, stuff like that jump jumps out at me.


Edit: and I catch one of my own as I'm submitting.

Whoops. Sorry. :smallannoyed:

No, it wasn't. I ran it through the Film Grain filter. It looks a lot better unexported; I'll have to run it through the filter twice for the next comic.

[Marnath]

Snowflakes have six points, don't they?

[Jjeinn-tae]

Whoops. Sorry. :smallannoyed:

No, it wasn't. I ran it through the Film Grain filter. It looks a lot better unexported; I'll have to run it through the filter twice for the next comic.

Ah, don't be sorry everyone makes typos occasionally.


Snowflakes have six points, don't they?

I think that depends on where you're from what the usual representation is, real snowflakes are not so limited. being rather variable. Over where I lived, we represented them with an asterisk usually, usually 8-pointed I think.

[Marnath]

I think that depends on where you're from what the usual representation is, real snowflakes are not so limited. being rather variable. Over where I lived, we represented them with an asterisk usually, usually 8-pointed I think.

Oh. I always thought they were supposed to be actual 6-pointed crystals. But then, my kindergarten teacher was fired too. Maybe the two are correlated. :smallbiggrin:

[RdMarquis]

Great work on this comic. I love the designs for the various deities (and would have to agree that the staticky appearance of the images kind of adds to things). On another note, the little guy with the whip and the scarf looks oddly familiar, and I don't know why.

[Tulio d Bard]

Me likes Mythos time! :smallbiggrin:

I'd like to see the whole how the creation happened. You're very good at telling stories, girl!

And I just noticed: they're all goddesses. Well, the first ones. And considering that the Elementals don't count. And I'm also not sure about Tiamat. Ah, forget it.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Great work on this comic. I love the designs for the various deities (and would have to agree that the staticky appearance of the images kind of adds to things). On another note, the little guy with the whip and the scarf looks oddly familiar, and I don't know why.

Niccolo, a oneshot dwarf from before, has a scarf of the same make, but it's not the same.


Me likes Mythos time! :smallbiggrin:

I'd like to see the whole how the creation happened. You're very good at telling stories, girl!

Thanks! :smallbiggrin: I'm actually taking creative writing in school this year. Speaking of which, my last year of high school starts tomorrow. :smalleek: College apps, senior year, AND swim team; I won't be home until 7 PM.

[Marnath]

Niccolo, a oneshot dwarf from before, has a scarf of the same make, but it's not the same.



Thanks! :smallbiggrin: I'm actually taking creative writing in school this year. Speaking of which, my last year of high school starts tomorrow. :smalleek: College apps, senior year, AND swim team; I won't be home until 7 PM.

Have fun! :smallsmile:

[RdMarquis]

Thanks! :smallbiggrin: I'm actually taking creative writing in school this year. Speaking of which, my last year of high school starts tomorrow. :smalleek: College apps, senior year, AND swim team; I won't be home until 7 PM.

Best of luck, and have a good first day.

[Lycan 01]

Wow. :smalleek:

Niiiiiice job. :smallamused: I'm impressed, Coffee. You're really good at coming up with backgrounds, fluff, and stuff that would take me ages to get figured out... :smalltongue:

[mucat]

This is a beautiful installment, Coffee. Not much I can say that hasn't been said. I love the grainy texture, the gods themselves are funny and interesting, and I want to know who lives on that chain of big islands visible on the planet's surface.

(Oh, and the frostline looks suspiciously straight. Magic at work there?)

[CoffeeIncluded]

Thank you, everybody. :smallredface:


This is a beautiful installment, Coffee. Not much I can say that hasn't been said. I love the grainy texture, the gods themselves are funny and interesting, and I want to know who lives on that chain of big islands visible on the planet's surface.

(Oh, and the frostline looks suspiciously straight. Magic at work there?)

That chain of islands is part of the Southern Islands that I mentioned before.

No, that was an artistic thing. I know that frostlines aren't that straight.

[Tulio d Bard]

Thanks! :smallbiggrin: I'm actually taking creative writing in school this year. Speaking of which, my last year of high school starts tomorrow. :smalleek: College apps, senior year, AND swim team; I won't be home until 7 PM.

I wish my school had creative writing classes.
Last year of high school... I know how you feel...

[Lord Raziere]

Thanks! :smallbiggrin: I'm actually taking creative writing in school this year. Speaking of which, my last year of high school starts tomorrow. :smalleek: College apps, senior year, AND swim team; I won't be home until 7 PM.

hey, I'm in my last year of high school as well, also taking a writing class but not until second semester. looks like we're kind of in the same boat eh?

[Mina Kobold]

Poor you (plural)

I'm only in first year Gymnasium (I have no Pi'ing idea why we call it that except that the Danish word for High School was taken) so I have plenty free time :smallbiggrin:

Mostly because there's no clubs around here for anything but football T_T

[Asta Kask]

Gymnasium is a fine word. It means "place for naked young men" and should really belong in the LGBT thread... funny how word meanings change over time. :smallbiggrin:

[Mina Kobold]

Gymnasium is a fine word. It means "place for naked young men" and should really belong in the LGBT thread... funny how word meanings change over time. :smallbiggrin:

Huh, my dictionary say it just means a place to exercise naked.

Or just a place to be naked in it's basic form.

Neither would surprise me, considering what the third years were dressed as at the sports party :smalltongue:

Which actually disgusted me quite a lot but that's irrelevant.

[Asta Kask]

Your dictionary is probably more accurate. I know that no power on Earth could have gotten me to a place where everyone was naked when I was 14-16. I would have died from embarassment first.

[Mina Kobold]

Your dictionary is probably more accurate. I know that no power on Earth could have gotten me to a place where everyone was naked when I was 14-16. I would have died from embarassment first.

I'm guessing you didn't go to nudist beaches, then?

I technically haven't either but most Danish beaches allow nudist-anyway aren't we supposed to talk about the comic?


...


How do you think the individual party members would react to having to go to a place where everybody are naked? :smalltongue:

[Asta Kask]

Janine and Matt would need napkins to soak up the drool. Sarrin would probably be ok with it. Lloyd wouldn't know what to do without his armor. Radic would transform into a bear. Remus would woof.

[Anitar]

Janine and Matt would need napkins to soak up the drool. Sarrin would probably be ok with it. Lloyd wouldn't know what to do without his armor. Radic would transform into a bear. Remus would woof.

What about Tinder and Fir?

[HalfTangible]

What about Tinder and Fir?

Tinder wouldn't care and Fir would meow.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Serrin wouldn't like it that much.

In any case, since Rosh Hoshana's tomorrow and Friday, I don't have school. I'm going to try to get a comic up today, because I'm not sure if I can do it Friday. Yeah, schoolwise today was a bit of an odd week.

[Silverraptor]

Serrin wouldn't like it that much.

In any case, since Rosh Hoshana's tomorrow and Friday, I don't have school. I'm going to try to get a comic up today, because I'm not sure if I can do it Friday. Yeah, schoolwise today was a bit of an odd week.

Does it have to do with the hurricane?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Does it have to do with the hurricane?

Huh? Rosh Hoshana is the Jewish new year. Half my school, including yours truly, is Jewish. Of course we're getting the day off!

And that's why I'm posting the next update tonight or tomorrow morning!

[Mystic Muse]

Huh? Rosh Hoshana is the Jewish new year. Half my school, including yours truly, is Jewish. Of course we're getting the day off!

And that's why I'm posting the next update tonight or tomorrow morning!

Happy new year then!

Looking forward to the update.

[Silverraptor]

Huh? Rosh Hoshana is the Jewish new year. Half my school, including yours truly, is Jewish. Of course we're getting the day off!

And that's why I'm posting the next update tonight or tomorrow morning!

Wow. We have no Jewish holiday thing over here on the western coast. Lucky you.:smallsmile:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Eh, I have to be in Synagogue all day. And on Yom Kippur I need to fast. But enough about that; it's comic time!

#83: Collective Guilt
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/CollectiveGuilt.png

[Dusk Eclipse]

Wow..... just wow, you really now how to tell an story I would tip my hat if I had one:smalltongue:.

I am sad that sailblaze was the one who died... (I liked his design and name better than Chillmado), but now I have a suspission that the Plaavan had some kind of ulterior motive to kill Sailblaze (or where they aiming for Astrid?)

And I like how you switched the the normal connotations of ascend and descend.

Great job coffe

[Marnath]

Oh, so because their Gods did something cruel and horrible, people take that as licence to treat the plaavaan like monsters? Oh yeah, thats real mature..

Great update coffee. :smallsmile:

[Dark Faun]

Oh, so because their Gods did something cruel and horrible, people take that as licence to treat the plaavaan like monsters? Oh yeah, thats real mature..
Well... if their worshippers go "YEEEEEAAAAAAH KICK THAT LOSER'S BUTT" when thinking about what their gods did... :smalltongue:

[Mystic Muse]

I can't really comment on this comic. It would delve into real life religion. Let's just say I'm not exactly happy with Astrid's decision.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Thanks everyone. Yeah, just because of what the gods supposedly did, the people use that as a catch-all warrant to do whatever the heck they want.

[Dark Faun]

I like that you said "supposedly." I thought about mentioning that it isn't necessarily what actually happened but feared it might be rules-unfriendly.

[mucat]

Dammit, Astrid!

Great comic, though, Coffee. Now I'm rooting even more for Janine to grow up and be a better person than the goddess she serves. I can see you possibly setting up a Discworld dynamic here, where the gods need to grow up fast as well because they are unworthy of the people who follow them.



Which has led, across the multiverse, to men and women of tremendous brilliance and empathy devoting their entire lives to the service of deities who couldn't beat them at a quiet game of dominoes. For example, Sister Sestina of Quirm defied the wrath of a local king and walked unharmed across a bed of coals and propounded a philosophy of sensible ethics on behalf of a goddess whose only real interest was in hairstyles, and Brother Zephilite of Klatch left his vast estates and his family and spent his life ministering to the sick and poor on behalf of the invisible god F´rum, generally considered unable, should he have a backside, to find it with both hands, should he have hands. Gods never need to be very bright when there are humans around to be it for them.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Dammit, Astrid!

Great comic, though, Coffee. Now I'm rooting even more for Janine to grow up and be a better person than the goddess she serves. I can see you possibly setting up a Discworld dynamic here, where the gods need to grow up fast as well because they are unworthy of the people who follow them.

I do love Pratchett, although I'm not copying his ideas. Thanks. :smallsmile:

Also, Astrid is the only Good-aligned goddess in Aequar. Every other deity is Something Neutral.

[Dark Faun]

She must be so happy with Kago.

[mucat]

I do love Pratchett, although I'm not copying his ideas. Thanks. :smallsmile:
Didn't mean to imply you were stealing from the master. :smallwink: Just that you might be exploring the same themes.


Also, Astrid is the only Good-aligned goddess in Aequar.
Then she needs to get her act together. Good people are counting on her!

[RdMarquis]

Good update. Judging by how the monster gods just showed up to ruin Astrid's day it's probable that the Plavaan clerics have their own version of the story. Things sound one-sided here.

By the way, mucat, which book is that quote from? It was funny.

[mucat]

It's from Small Gods. One of my favorites...

[Lord Raziere]

Eh, I have to be in Synagogue all day. And on Yom Kippur I need to fast. But enough about that; it's comic time!

#83: Collective Guilt
snip

bleh, sounds like your usual biased religious propaganda story, how convenient that the gods of the Plavaan plains just happened to murder one of Astrid's elemental puppies for no reason at all then Astrid conveniently just walking away also for no reason when according to the story she had every right to bring down the wrath of her godliness upon them. :smallannoyed:

I give it a 3/10. "Not believable at all"

[CoffeeIncluded]

It's from Small Gods. One of my favorites...

Ah, I love Small Gods too.

And gee, I thought you'd notice that Astrid Descended in Laria, the more tolerant of the two heavily Astridian countries, while she Ascended in Kago?


bleh, sounds like your usual biased religious propaganda story, how convenient that the gods of the Plavaan plains just happened to murder one of Astrid's elemental puppies for no reason at all then Astrid conveniently just walking away also for no reason when according to the story she had every right to bring down the wrath of her godliness upon them. :smallannoyed:

I give it a 3/10. "Not believable at all"

Perhaps we may learn more in time? And what do you think of the comic?

AND PLEASE DON'T QUOTE MY IMAGES!!!

[Lord Raziere]

Ah, I love Small Gods too.

And gee, I thought you'd notice that Astrid Descended in Laria, the more tolerant of the two heavily Astridian countries, while she Ascended in Kago?



Perhaps we may learn more in time? And what do you think of the comic?

well I like the texture thing.

and I like your subtle approach to all these themes. Its not my style though, if I were doing something like this it would be a lot darker and blunt about it. People probably wouldn't like that.

edited: there, snipped.

[Lix Lorn]

Oh, nice...
Drow goddess is pretty.

...you said all the other deities are neutral, not good... including the Plavaans? or are they NE?

(Also, does small gods contain a bit about the half snake, half demon, half eagle etc?)

[Asta Kask]

Eh, I have to be in Synagogue all day. And on Yom Kippur I need to fast. But enough about that; it's comic time!

#83: Collective Guilt
*snip*

Huh? Does that mean there's no sun on the plains of Plavaan?

[HalfTangible]

Huh? Does that mean there's no sun on the plains of Plavaan?

No, it means Astrid has no worshippers there and most likely never will because three gods killed a fire dragon - looking thing.

EDIT: On second though, Drow live there... so maybe =/

@Raziere: I assumed thought it was a highly one-sided point of view based on something that actually happened, personally.

what, the story has no chance of being at all true? :smallannoyed:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh, nice...
Drow goddess is pretty.

...you said all the other deities are neutral, not good... including the Plavaans? or are they NE?

No. They're all Something Neutral. In Aequar, racial alignment (E.G., often Lawful Evil), is a stereotype created and enforced by society, not one that the species actually is. Every species is actually like humans in that they run the gamut of alignments, but stereotypes are so much more...Comfortable.


Huh? Does that mean there's no sun on the plains of Plavaan?

No, but Astrid never blessed those lands, so the Plavaan are considered inferior, basically giving the Astridians an excuse to do whatever they want to the Plavaan and the Alavaan plains.

Also, I really think that the TvTropes pages needs updating.

[Mina Kobold]

For some reason my imagination has decided that Drow goddess is not wearing pants and considers the white space to be underwear.

My imagination is weird.

[Maximum Zersk]

Well, I added a subversion for Always Chaotic Evil. I can't think of anything else right now, though.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well, I added a subversion for Always Chaotic Evil. I can't think of anything else right now, though.

Adding a lot of stuff to Fantastic Racism? :smalltongue:

You know what I find a lot of fun? A Villainous Breakdown.

[Maximum Zersk]

Oh, right. That needs updating.

I don't think we've had a villainous breakdown yet in the comic, have we?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh, right. That needs updating.

I don't think we've had a villainous breakdown yet in the comic, have we?

No, but there's something immensely satisfying about seeing a bad guy lose it. (Also, the page needs wicks.)

[Maximum Zersk]

So I'm guessing we'll see that then soon, huh? :smallamused:

Ah yes, Wicks. I'm good at that.

[CoffeeIncluded]

So I'm guessing we'll see that then soon, huh? :smallamused:

Ah yes, Wicks. I'm good at that.

:smalltongue:

And thanks.

[Asta Kask]

No, but Astrid never blessed those lands, so the Plavaan are considered inferior, basically giving the Astridians an excuse to do whatever they want to the Plavaan and the Alavaan plains.

They obviously are inferior. What exact effects does this lack of blessing have? Apart from being a convenient ingroup/outgroup marker?

[CoffeeIncluded]

They obviously are inferior. What exact effects does this lack of blessing have? Apart from being a convenient ingroup/outgroup marker?

Absolutely nothing!

[Lord Raziere]

No, it means Astrid has no worshippers there and most likely never will because three gods killed a fire dragon - looking thing.

EDIT: On second though, Drow live there... so maybe =/

@Raziere: I assumed thought it was a highly one-sided point of view based on something that actually happened, personally.

what, the story has no chance of being at all true? :smallannoyed:

eh, I'm just not that type of believer. show me some people spouting out how their goddess didn't bless the plains because of a bad reason and thats why we should all hate said plains and I'll just go "wow, nice divine excuse to be racist pricks, which religious leader of yours made this story up first?"

[HalfTangible]

eh, I'm just not that type of believer. show me some people spouting out how their goddess didn't bless the plains because of a bad reason and thats why we should all hate said plains and I'll just go "wow, nice divine excuse to be racist pricks, which religious leader of yours made this story up first?"

:smallsigh: I really hate this mindset. Really, really do.

The fact that the story is presented to put the Plavaan in as bad a light as possible says to me it's the version as it is understood by Astrid's followers. It does NOT mean the story is not true.

Granted, it's not a reason to be racist towards every single member of a species but to say the story was made up completely doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, especially since the main reason religious conspiracies (say, the one in Assassin's creed 2) are made up is because the guy who made them up doesn't believe in the god/goddess he claims to, and wants to manipulate those that DO. That makes even less sense in a world where the gods of other religions are admitted to exist.

In your hypothetical situation: "That doesn't make any sense! You're going to blame an entire region for the crimes of their god when you can just blame the god?!"

[Asta Kask]

Absolutely nothing!

Not much of a blessing, is it?

[HalfTangible]

Not much of a blessing, is it?

In a pantheon like this it means little since a different god can just as easily give them a similar blessing.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The story in its most basic form happened to some degree. But who knows what the truth is...

[Asta Kask]

You?

tencharacterlimit

[Dark Faun]

Not necessarily. She can leave purposely leave it ambiguous, even to her own mind. Some universes are like that.

I'M LOOKING AT YOU GAMES WORKSHOP

But either way, I'm looking forward to the next updates. :smallsmile:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Not necessarily. She can leave purposely leave it ambiguous, even to her own mind. Some universes are like that.

I'M LOOKING AT YOU GAMES WORKSHOP

But either way, I'm looking forward to the next updates. :smallsmile:

Thanks. I'm looking forward to it too. And nope, I know the truth. Good luck prying it out of me though. :smallbiggrin:

[Asta Kask]

Thanks. I'm looking forward to it too. And nope, I know the truth. Good luck prying it out of me though. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, golly, look at this tub of chocolate icec cream that was sent here by mistake. If only we had someone to eat it all...

[Lord Raziere]

:smallsigh: I really hate this mindset. Really, really do.

The fact that the story is presented to put the Plavaan in as bad a light as possible says to me it's the version as it is understood by Astrid's followers. It does NOT mean the story is not true.

Granted, it's not a reason to be racist towards every single member of a species but to say the story was made up completely doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, especially since the main reason religious stories are made up is because the guy who made them up doesn't believe in the god/goddess he claims to, and wants to manipulate those that DO. That makes even less sense in a world where the gods of other religions are admitted to exist.

In your hypothetical situation: "That doesn't make any sense! You're going to blame an entire region for the crimes of their god when you can just blame the god?!"

you could say that is ONE reason I rated it a 3/10: it gives us no actual reason to blame the races, just their gods which is not something very believable. that and depending on your interpretation of DnD, the world could really HAVE been created by gods.....or peoples belief in gods gave birth to them and the gods just went along with it cause if they didn't that would kind be ruining faith and along with it, their power.

and of course in this interpretation, the racism could have come before the gods and people just made up justifications to hate them through the religions, and of course the gods, wanting their subjects to be faithful, didn't argue.


however this is just my opinion.

[Marnath]

Guys please, are you TRYING to get the thread locked? Real world religion and politics are a no go here.

As to the comic, no Coffee I hadn't noticed the thing about where she descended and ascended. Subtle. :smallwink:

[HalfTangible]

Guys please, are you TRYING to get the thread locked?Maybe. F*** NO!!!


Real world religion and politics are a no go here.Raziere was just making a point using real world situations, not discussing it.

Besides if it was the thread would be fine since it' just me and Raziere discussing the murphy's law religion story.


you could say that is ONE reason I rated it a 3/10: it gives us no actual reason to blame the races, just their gods which is not something very believable. that and depending on your interpretation of DnD, the world could really HAVE been created by gods.....or peoples belief in gods gave birth to them and the gods just went along with it cause if they didn't that would kind be ruining faith and along with it, their power.

and of course in this interpretation, the racism could have come before the gods and people just made up justifications to hate them through the religions, and of course the gods, wanting their subjects to be faithful, didn't argue.

Frankly races have hated each other over far, far more inconsequential things than the murder of a (demigod?) in almost every story i've ever read that HAD different races. OoTS had such hatred for little reason than 'because they told us to' until the events that transpire in the Dark One's story.

In your version it leaves the question of how everything ended up there and how the other gods exist since religions in this world seem separate their gods, as there is no one religion to a pantheon, there is worship of single gods (except maybe in Icarus and Don's case) and acknowledgement of the others, which doesn't make sense to have before the gods revealed themselves. If faith brought the gods into existence, then the disbelief of the other faiths would send them away.

I have a rather pertinent question: If astrid coming down herself was such a momentous rare event why were there three other gods also down there waiting for her, albeit a year and a half later?

[Maximum Zersk]

Raziere was just making a point using real world situations, not discussing it.


I think I remember hearing from Roland that even that's a no-go. I could be wrong, though.

[Lord Raziere]

is historical real life stuff like that banned too? :smallconfused: why? I can understand stuff that is modern enough to hushed up but why history to? I love discussing history, its one of my best subjects and I find it often helps me compare it with fantasy since fantasy takes place in historical times.

[Marnath]

Regarding the Forum Rules, it doesn't matter why one brings up religion. The Forum Rules prohibit discussion of real world religion, entirely and for any reason. Whether a post (or posts) are considered trolling is a matter of judgment, one which the moderators old and new are well-trained to make, and which obviously cannot rely on what the poster says was intended after the fact.

I lifted that from the last locked religion thread I could find. It's a Roland quote.

*edit: Is there any way to quote from another thread and still keep the nametag?

[Maximum Zersk]

I lifted that from the last locked religion thread I could find. It's a Roland quote.

*edit: Is there any way to quote from another thread and still keep the nametag?

[QUOTEBLOCK=Name;Number]

[CoffeeIncluded]

In your version it leaves the question of how everything ended up there and how the other gods exist since religions in this world seem separate their gods, as there is no one religion to a pantheon, there is worship of single gods (except maybe in Icarus and Don's case) and acknowledgement of the others, which doesn't make sense to have before the gods revealed themselves. If faith brought the gods into existence, then the disbelief of the other faiths would send them away.

No. Lack of faith will kill the gods, but each of the gods and their respective religions have enough believers and worshipers to keep them alive. And people do worship one god or pantheon while acknowledging the existence of others. The Romans did it all the time.

Also, it's Isarus, not Icarus.


I have a rather pertinent question: If astrid coming down herself was such a momentous rare event why were there three other gods also down there waiting for her, albeit a year and a half later?

Rockwell, Golek, and Erikaf had just been raised.

[Maximum Zersk]

Also, it's Isarus, not Icarus.


No, it's Ἴκαρος. :smalltongue:

[Lord Raziere]

I lifted that from the last locked religion thread I could find. It's a Roland quote.

social darwinism isn't a religion, it was a jerk pseudo-scientific justification for why that guy was better than you because they were extrapolating off of real Darwinism when their knowledge of science wasn't advanced enough for Jared Diamond's theory to form. :smallyuk: it was more a cultural thing than anything political or religious, so it does not fall under the ban upon religion and politics.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Guys, please don't get my thread locked. And believe me, this story is a lot deeper than Janine knows.

[HalfTangible]

-snip-

probably should edit out the fun fact section anyway, it's superfluous to your argument and is the only part that seems to touch RW stuff...

And maaaybe what i just snipped =/

I think i kept it to fiction, but i'll go back and look over mine too.


Guys, please don't get my thread locked. And believe me, this story is a lot deeper than Janine knows.

The rules state that if a specific poster/posters is/are causing problems in a thread but the thread itself is not violating the rules the posters will be issued and infraction and told not to post there anymore. You're FINE.

[Lord Raziere]

fine. its edited. :smallannoyed: So what CAN I talk about here in these forums? every time I open my mouth it seems I'm running up into one ban-wall or another.

[Marnath]

Topic shift a minute...you guys talked a bit about what the whole not being blessed by Astrid thing meant? I thought it meant the valley is shrouded in mist year 'round.

[Maximum Zersk]

fine. its edited. :smallannoyed: So what CAN I talk about here in these forums? every time I open my mouth it seems I'm running up into one ban-wall or another.

Anything that isn't on this list. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?f=13&a=1)


Topic shift a minute...you guys talked a bit about what the whole not being blessed by Astrid thing meant? I thought it meant the valley is shrouded in mist year 'round.

Hm, that would be an interesting interpretation. Though it just seems to mean whoever the goddess shines over.

[Marnath]

Hm, that would be an interesting interpretation. Though it just seems to mean whoever the goddess shines over.

Well yeah, but thats where the mist comes in, stops her light from shining on them. Whatever, it's probably more that the story is slanted towards a certain viewpoint. Like the pic of janine vs. old cleric guy, with him being the one who would cite this story as reason why no plavaan can be redeemed, ever.

[HalfTangible]

fine. its edited. :smallannoyed: So what CAN I talk about here in these forums? every time I open my mouth it seems I'm running up into one ban-wall or another.
Catering to the whims of others who don't even know your name may suck more than a vacuum cleaner with asthma, but the real world stuff makes sense. You'd be surprised how many flame wars have started over that stuff.

Change of topic: When exactly was it stated the Alavaan planes are shrouded in mist? i think i missed it =/

[Marnath]

Change of topic: When exactly was it stated the Alavaan planes are shrouded in mist? i think i missed it =/

Oh, that was me making a wild guess based on fuzzy dark blue stuff in the last panel.

[Maximum Zersk]

Oh, that was me making a wild guess based on fuzzy dark blue stuff in the last panel.

That's, uh, the filter.

[CoffeeIncluded]

No, Erikaf is the Drow goddess of mist, fog, and rain. The Drow are extremely photosensitive, and they need the mist and rain to grow their crops.

[Marnath]

No, Erikaf is the Drow goddess of mist, fog, and rain. The Drow are extremely photosensitive, and they need the mist and rain to grow their crops.

Aha! I'm not crazy!! This time.

[Maximum Zersk]

Aha! I'm not crazy!! This time.

Technically, we're both wrong. :smallamused:

[CoffeeIncluded]

The rest of the Alavaan plains are sunny and grasslands and perfect for growing all sorts of crops. The Drow live in the southern marshier parts.

[HalfTangible]

The rest of the Alavaan plains are sunny and grasslands and perfect for growing all sorts of crops. The Drow live in the southern marshier parts.

The fact you have thought all of this through is both awe-inspiring for a writer and disturbing :smalleek:

I had no idea it was possible to feel both awe and disturb. edness.

[Marnath]

And marshes are often foggy, right? O.o

[Maximum Zersk]

The fact you have thought all of this through is both awe-inspiring for a writer and disturbing :smalleek:

I had no idea it was possible to feel both awe and disturb. edness.

It's also good. We need more writers who do this! :smalltongue:

[CoffeeIncluded]

The fact you have thought all of this through is both awe-inspiring for a writer and disturbing

I had no idea it was possible to feel both awe and disturb. edness.

:smallbiggrin:


And marshes are often foggy, right? O.o

Marshier. That place is fantastic for growing rice.

If you want swamp swamp in Nordica, head to Runite. Well, the parts surrounding the city itself. :smalltongue:

[HalfTangible]

It's also good. We need more writers who do this! :smalltongue:

Yes. that was the 'awe' part. :smalltongue:

[Maximum Zersk]

Yes. that was the 'awe' part. :smalltongue:

Ah. Well, thinking out settings is fun. You can add strange and funny things sometimes, and the whole process is cool.

[HalfTangible]

Ah. Well, thinking out settings is fun. You can add strange and funny things sometimes, and the whole process is cool.

I've tried thinking them up but unless the story is already there i feel like i'm strangling myself. Thus, awe.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The characters and the world developed with each other.

[Marnath]

I don't know what we're talking about anymore. v.v

[HalfTangible]

I don't know what we're talking about anymore. v.v

Development as a process in a story.

[Maximum Zersk]

The characters and the world developed with each other.

Ah. Sometimes I do that. Sometimes I develop a setting first and the characters after. Sometimes I develop the characters first. All depends on the circumstance, really.

[Draconi Redfir]

Bluh i loose internet all night and two pages spawn infront of my eyes. i need to post here more often. i use my Avatar as a kind of bookmark :P

[Lord Raziere]

ha! I've written like 70-something pages on my sci-fi/fantasy setting alone, not counting the actual story, all those 70-something pages are for the goal of making my setting as consistent, varied, complex, believable, realistic, scientific and well-thought out as possible, with every single thing thought to its logical conclusion and every single thing explained, even the magic which I made sure follows the laws of physics.

best 70-something pages I ever written. that is how well thought out my setting is, and I'm not surprised that Coffee thought her setting out well as well, any good fantasy or sci-fi writer builds the world around them as well as the story she writes.

[Maximum Zersk]

sci-fi/fantasy setting... ...believable, realistic, scientific and well-thought out as possible, with every single thing thought to its logical conclusion and every single thing explained, even the magic which I made sure follows the laws of physics.


Something doesn't follow here. :smalltongue:

Also, Coffee's female, I think.

[Lord Raziere]

Something doesn't follow here. :smalltongue:

Also, Coffee's female, I think.

hey, just because its never been done before, doesn't mean its not possible.
really, I made sure all of it follows everything, magic and science in this setting worked together, that even the effects of FTL travel, of robots, cybernetics, of the effects of a science-following form of magic was all charted out, there is a full history detailing the entire history of the setting and pretty every single thing has a justification or explanation behind it.

think Fullmetal Alchemist meets Firefly meets Star Wars with a dash of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy for some minor satire.

edit: oh and it has a bunch of schemers and giant mecha in it so you can also say that there are some Code Geass elements as well.

[Maximum Zersk]

think Fullmetal Alchemist meets Firefly meets Star Wars with a dash of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy for some minor satire.

edit: oh and it has a bunch of schemers and giant mecha in it so you can also say that there are some Code Geass elements as well.

Okay, that is awesome.

[Lord Raziere]

Okay, that is awesome.

yea I know, but lets get back on topic shall we?

[Maximum Zersk]

Yesh!

Now, let's see here. Plaavians.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Yesh!

Now, let's see here. Plaavians.

Actually it's just Plavaan, both singular and plural. Alavaan is the place name and instead of Alavaanian, it's Plavaan.

[Dark Faun]

I like the names, personally. I guess I have a thing for two 'a' in a row. Go Vaarsuvius!

So, I was rereading #43 and noticed the snowflake symbols on the tapestry. And that Murphy mentioned Astrid's companions.

He also calls Astrid "protector of all that is living and good." But Astrid doesn't - as far as he knows - protect the Plavaan. So they're not good, obviously. But they live. And they shouldn't, since they're not protected by Astrid. So they must die.

It's really creepy when you think about it.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I like the names, personally. I guess I have a thing for two 'a' in a row. Go Vaarsuvius!

So, I was rereading #43 and noticed the snowflake symbols on the tapestry. And that Murphy mentioned Astrid's companions.

He also calls Astrid "protector of all that is living and good." But Astrid doesn't - as far as he knows - protect the Plavaan. So they're not good, obviously. But they live. And they shouldn't, since they're not protected by Astrid. So they must die.

It's really creepy when you think about it.

And do you honestly think I haven't thought about it? But how many people in Aequar do you believe would think that deeply about it?

[Dark Faun]

I expected you to think about it. You're far from stupid. No need to feel insulted.

...not many.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I knew what you were saying. Also, I'm going to try to update today.

[CWater]

Wow you guys post fast...O_o

I believe all I could think of saying about the latest update has already been said, so I'll just post a :smile:, good work again!

...

...And uh, there's one other thing. You see, the lessons have started again and I'm not very good at concentrating unless I do something else at the same time and since I like drawing, well that's what I usually do. And, well, today my pen decided it would like to sketch some Murphy's Law fanart...so I did.

And since I don't remember Coffee ever saying that she'd have suddenly started to hate fanart, so I guess I'm posting it. It's not very good, but what can you expect from a lesson sketch...

Watchful (http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/meriwater/FanArt/Watchful.jpg), (please ignore the scribbles on the top, they're just my random lesson notes)
I think it goes without saying that I liked that strip very much:smalltongue:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Wow you guys post fast...O_o

I believe all I could think of saying about the latest update has already been said, so I'll just post a :smile:, good work again!

...

...And uh, there's one other thing. You see, the lessons have started again and I'm not very good at concentrating unless I do something else at the same time and since I like drawing, well that's what I usually do. And, well, today my pen decided it would like to sketch some Murphy's Law fanart...so I did.

And since I don't remember Coffee ever saying that she'd have suddenly started to hate fanart, so I guess I'm posting it. It's not very good, but what can you expect from a lesson sketch...

Watchful (http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/meriwater/FanArt/Watchful.jpg), (please ignore the scribbles on the top, they're just my random lesson notes)
I think it goes without saying that I liked that strip very much:smalltongue:

*Repeated squeeing* Have I mentioned that I love your sketches and would love to see more?

[CWater]

*Repeated squeeing* Have I mentioned that I love your sketches and would love to see more?

Thanks:smallredface:
I'll see what I can do.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Alright, comic time!

#84: Fir Saw It Coming
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/FirSawItComing.png

[Lix Lorn]

...I love that last panel. XD
DeathIsCheap.

[Dark Faun]

Haha, poor Matt.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Haha, poor Matt.

Were you honestly expecting anything else at this point? :smalltongue:

[Dark Faun]

...no.

I expect him to fall for an elf at some point though. :smalltongue:

[CoffeeIncluded]

...no.

I expect him to fall for an elf at some point though. :smalltongue:

And then Aequar will fall into the sun. :smalltongue:

So, what did you think of this update?

[Dark Faun]

Very good and funny. I love Lloyd's frowns especially. :smallbiggrin:

[Mina Kobold]

And then Aequar will fall into the sun. :smalltongue:

So, what did you think of this update?

We'll still expect it no matter what you do to hide it :smalltongue:

I thought it was good to see that not everybody believed the story in full and it was good to see Matt being funny again :smallsmile:

[CWater]

:smallbiggrin: LOL

I think that says it all:smalltongue:


We'll still expect it no matter what you do to hide it :smalltongue:

I thought it was good to see that not everybody believed the story in full and it was good to see Matt being funny again :smallsmile:

Indeed!:smallwink:

[HalfTangible]

I like how Janine avoided the question via a succesful trolling :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

[Tira-chan]

My instinctive response was to assume that Matt is actually Matthew, the great half-elven hero, in disguise. This is probably a sign that I've spent too much on the WMG pages of TVTropes

[CoffeeIncluded]

My instinctive response was to assume that Matt is actually Matthew, the great half-elven hero, in disguise. This is probably a sign that I've spent too much on the WMG pages of TVTropes

It's 1830 A.A. (Arcanic Age) on the Aequarian calender. Matthew the half-elven hero died almost 1800 years ago.

[Mystic Muse]

It's 1830 A.A. (Arcanic Age) on the Aequarian calender. Matthew the half-elven hero died almost 1800 years ago.

Reincarnation maybe? There are quite a few stories where that's happened.

Something interesting I found out Yesterday that's probably been pointed out before. Astrid is the name of somebody in the TV show "Fringe" Is that where you got the name from?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Reincarnation maybe? There are quite a few stories where that's happened.

Something interesting I found out Yesterday that's probably been pointed out before. Astrid is the name of somebody in the TV show "Fringe" Is that where you got the name from?

No, Matthew the Hero is not reincarnated. Matt's parents must have liked ancient stories and legends and so named Matt after a well-known hero, who's known by the other races as well as elves.

And no, I thought up Astrid myself.

[Dark Faun]

"The seer has been crystal clear. Our child will hate elves - and probably half elves even more."

"Let's call him Matt then."

"YEEEEEEAAAAAAH"

*giggles*

Seriously though... Cosmic Chewtoy indeed. :smalltongue:

[CWater]

And no, I thought up Astrid myself.
Every time I hear the name Astrid, I think of Astrid Lindgren, a famous Swedish writer of children's books.:smalltongue:

[Tira-chan]

It's 1830 A.A. (Arcanic Age) on the Aequarian calender. Matthew the half-elven hero died almost 1800 years ago.

I think I somehow got the idea that he'd achieved immortality somehow or something, like that one Epic Destiny in 4.0. Or maybe I just expected the next comic to address that. I dunno. It makes mildly more sense than some of the WMG theories.

If he'd heard about Matthew-the-hero, that could explain why he insists on being called Matt, but I don't think that's the case.

[HalfTangible]

I think I somehow got the idea that he'd achieved immortality somehow or something, like that one Epic Destiny in 4.0. Or maybe I just expected the next comic to address that. I dunno. It makes mildly more sense than some of the WMG theories.

If he'd heard about Matthew-the-hero, that could explain why he insists on being called Matt, but I don't think that's the case.

Of course not, he objected to the name again as soon as he found out the guy he was named after was a half-elf.

[RdMarquis]

I imagine Matt reconsidering being called "Matthew" until that very second that Serrin drops the half-elf bomb on him. Then it was back to Square One. Also, Terrance popping in at the end made me crack up.

[Mina Kobold]

Reincarnation maybe? There are quite a few stories where that's happened.

Something interesting I found out Yesterday that's probably been pointed out before. Astrid is the name of somebody in the TV show "Fringe" Is that where you got the name from?

It's relatively common over here.

Both the name and the reincarnation :smalltongue:

[Marnath]

And then Aequar will fall into the sun. :smalltongue:

So, what did you think of this update?

What did I think of hearing that Matt is named after a half-elf? I loled.:smallsmile: My kitty is hiding now. :smalltongue:

[Draconi Redfir]

poor poor matt :smallbiggrin:

edit: would be funny if the hero's name was Matt insted, then Matt would insist his name was Matthew XD

[mastermind]

I also find that being turned into a zombie makes me hungry too. :smallbiggrin:

[Marnath]

I also find that being turned into a zombie makes me hungry too. :smallbiggrin:

:smallconfused:
He was never a zombie...

[HalfTangible]

:smallconfused:
He was never a zombie...

"Dieing really works up an appetite"

:smallannoyed: what do you have to do to become a zombie?

[Marnath]

"Dieing really works up an appetite"

:smallannoyed: what do you have to do to become a zombie?

Be raised as an undead.... :smallsigh:

[HalfTangible]

Be raised as an undead.... :smallsigh:

Nononononono, before that. :smalltongue:

[Asta Kask]

Nononononono, before that. :smalltongue:

Dying is generally considered a necessary step.

[HalfTangible]

Dying is generally considered a necessary step.

I know. I'm trying to explain the joke without being a jerk. I'm probably doing a terrible job of both.

[Darklord Xavez]

I know. I'm trying to explain the joke without being a jerk. I'm probably doing a terrible job of both.

OH MY GOD I JUST REALIZED WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY
-Xavez

[Maximum Zersk]

"Dieing really works up an appetite"

:smallannoyed: what do you have to do to become a zombie?

Enroll in a University?

[Maxios]

Methinks Matthew's is either:
A half elf
A reincarnation of half elf hero Matthew
Or the legend of Matthew is perhaps a prophecy or a precognition about the rouge Matthew.
If he is a half elf, his hair is hiding the ear.

[Maximum Zersk]

Or Matt could be a common name.

[Lix Lorn]

Methinks Matthew's is either:
A half elf
A reincarnation of half elf hero Matthew
Or the legend of Matthew is perhaps a prophecy or a precognition about the rouge Matthew.
If he is a half elf, his hair is hiding the ear.
I like that idea. It's almost exactly the plot of a book called Morningstar, by David Gemmell.
I need to re-readf said book now...

[Dark Faun]

Or Matt could be a common name.
So undramatic. :smallwink:

[CoffeeIncluded]

No, Matt's parents decided to name him after an ancient hero.

[Lix Lorn]

Personally, I hope Maxios' theory is right. ^_^

[RdMarquis]

It would make for a lot of interesting character development. For example, Matt wasn't telling the party something about his dislike of elves. Maybe he was rejected by his elven (or both elven and human) peers for coming from an interracial couple. Although it would be very sad if he blamed his elven parent for the whole thing.

[HalfTangible]

It would make for a lot of interesting character development. For example, Matt wasn't telling the party something about his dislike of elves. Maybe he was rejected by his elven (or both elven and human) peers for coming from an interracial couple. Although it would be very sad if he blamed his elven parent for the whole thing.

"Why are you all looking at me like that?"
"... you've got elves beating your as your entire life and the only reason you hate them is a dexterity bonus?!"
"Arrogance?"
"Try again."
"Androgyny?"
"That's even less reasonable!"
"... I can't think of anything."
"How about beating you up?!"
"That's a stupid reason to hate someone."

[CoffeeIncluded]

No, sorry. Matt's a human through and through. It's jealousy. That's why he hates elves.

And before anybody asks, no he is NOT a half-elf who cut off his ear. Do you realize just how incredibly painful that is?

[Lix Lorn]

Disguise Self? Alter Self? Polymorph? (Giggles)

You realise that not even Word Of God can stop fanon, right?

[Lord Raziere]

Disguise Self? Alter Self? Polymorph? (Giggles)

You realise that not even Word Of God can stop fanon, right?

yea, now for my fanon theory!

Matt is somehow a half-elf/twin of a half-elf/Matthew is actually a dragon who disguised himself as a half-elf then 1800 years later took the form of the human Matt and is pretending to hate elves for some scheme for the greater good in some way./ooze/Matt is a time traveler caught in a loop where he somehow goes back in time, becomes a half-elf and becomes the hero of legend and causing the conditions of his birth 1800 years later through his own legend./Matt is a Doctor Who-esque Elf who is disguised as a human and pretends his hate for elves is just jealousy when he actually knows the dark truth of his people and escaped from them because of it.

and all these theories are true. At the same time.

In case no figured this out, I'm joking.

[Dark Faun]

You now know how the Giant feels about his fandom, Coffee. *giggles*

If it makes you feel better, I believe Matt's what you say he is.

[Asta Kask]

Matt is a repressed HtE (Human-to-Elf) transracial.

[Lix Lorn]

Matt is a repressed HtE (Human-to-Elf) transracial.
Marry me now.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Meh, I was part of the Crack Pairings thread. :smalltongue:

[Maximum Zersk]

No, sorry. Matt's a human through and through. It's jealousy. That's why he hates elves.

And before anybody asks, no he is NOT a half-elf who cut off his ear. Do you realize just how incredibly painful that is?

A dude named Vincent might.

[Draconi Redfir]

Matt will go back in time, marry an elf girl, and give birth to Matthew the hero!!


A dude named Vincent might.

think she was reffering to the fact that elf-ears aree full of nerves and are more or less a sex organ according to water smurf and her stories.

[Maximum Zersk]

think she was reffering to the fact that elf-ears aree full of nerves and are more or less a sex organ according to water smurf and her stories.

...Ears are genitalia now?

[John Cribati]

...Ears are genitalia now?

Ferengi think so.

[Maximum Zersk]

Well, this is new. Not the weirdest thing I've heard, but new.

[Dark Faun]

I'd like to remind everyone this comic is about Coffee's world, not Water-Smurf's.

Though there's Tiasal...

Oh, never mind. Forget I said anything. :smalltongue:

[Mina Kobold]

Ferengi think so.

Whoever Ferengi is remind me to stay far away from them :smalleek:

[John Cribati]

Whoever Ferengi is remind me to stay far away from them :smalleek:

Ferengi are aliens from Star Trek.

[CoffeeIncluded]

*Sigh* That's a side effect because elven ears are so full of nerve endings. Half-elves have fewer nerve endings, but their ears are still extremely sensitive. Even Matt knows better than to yank on an elf's ear, because the pain from just that is equivalent to a kick in the crotch, which is what that elf would do in response.

Also, I was the one who mentioned that idea to Water-Smurf.

[Marnath]

It's actually supported in one of the Harper series novels, I don't remember which. The protagonist chick is trying to squick some guy out by mentioning that elves really like it when you rub the tips of their ears.

[CoffeeIncluded]

It's actually supported in one of the Harper series novels, I don't remember which. The protagonist chick is trying to squick some guy out by mentioning that elves really like it when you rub the tips of their ears.

Maybe. :smalltongue:

Fun Fact: An alternate title I was considering for this strip was, "Legends Never Die"

And I guess the thing is just like in the real world, once I created these characters, I doomed them to death. They're not going to live forever. Sure, in 1830 A.A., they're in the prime of their life, but by 2371 A.A.? Even Tinder would probably be dead and gone.

But in Aequar, they'll be remembered forever.

[Marnath]

And I guess the thing is just like in the real world, once I created these characters, I doomed them to death. They're not going to live forever. Sure, in 1830 A.A., they're in the prime of their life, but by 2371 A.A.? Even Tinder would probably be dead and gone.

But in Aequar, they'll be remembered forever.

Actually, according to my copy of the Dragonomicon, green dragons can live as long as 2,300 years. Assuming he is a young adult right now, he'd only be like 600-700 by 2371. :smallsmile:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Actually, according to my copy of the Dragonomicon, green dragons can live as long as 2,300 years. Assuming he is a young adult right now, he'd only be like 600-700 by 2371. :smallsmile:

Dragons live to be about 1000, tops, in Aequar. Elves live to be about 450-ish while half-elves live to be about 180-200.

[Lycan 01]

You are about to enter a zone where the normal laws and norms of Dungeons and Dragons do not apply. It is called... The Coffee Zone. :smallcool:

[Maximum Zersk]

You are about to enter a zone where the normal laws and norms of Dungeons and Dragons do not apply. It is called... The Coffee Zone. :smallcool:

AKA An original story.

[Lycan 01]

Well, yes, but I was doing a Twilight Zone spoof. :smalltongue:


So Coffee, any plans for starting your own site or anything at some point?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well, yes, but I was doing a Twilight Zone spoof. :smalltongue:


So Coffee, any plans for starting your own site or anything at some point?

Possibly way in the future, when I have more fans, more time, more knowledge of how to do such things, and more money.

And I may post a homebrewed Aequar in a couple of months on the board.

[RdMarquis]

Ooh, the campaign setting? If anyone's interested, I'd like to test it out in a play-by-post game.

[Asta Kask]

Marry me now.

And Matt has it good... you should see the OtD (Orc-to-Dwarf) transracial...

:thog: Ok, I can do this...

a) saw off tusks - check
b) learn to speak phony Scottish - check
c) dye skin - check
d) lose two feet of height... - *deep sigh*

[Lix Lorn]

And Matt has it good... you should see the OtD (Orc-to-Dwarf) transracial...

:thog: Ok, I can do this...

a) saw off tusks - check
b) learn to speak phony Scottish - check
c) dye skin - check
d) lose two feet of height... - *deep sigh*
Yeah, well, however tough they have it, they live in a world of magic. They'll find a way.