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View Full Version : If you were in my game....4E



FullofQuestions
2010-08-24, 08:28 AM
I am at a point in my game where one of my player's characters found old pictures of a battle found stenciled in stone. He noticed that one of the warriors in the fight was the spitting image of him, but looked older. I'm trying to decide which way to go with it. If you were this character, would you have more fun with it being a prophecy of a fight yet to come, or something that happened in the past and he failed his mission so he found a way to rewind time knowing he was going to loose his memory and years off his life so he somehow left clues for himself to find to guide him as to how to succeed this time around?

This character came into the game with amnesia so I could make the second option work, but he also, in the picture, had the weapons that he just recently acquired so I'd have to incorporate that somehow if I were to make it the 'past'.

I'm still trying to work all the bugs out. Any help is appreciated.

Dragosai
2010-08-24, 08:42 AM
My 2 cents. I would go with the "fight yet to come" only because I dislike 98% of all time travel. IMO time travel makes your actions seem meaningless, or it can. If the character(s) already got one do over, who's to say they can't have 100 do overs? It's the time travel is the I win button. Unless time travel is used as just the vehicle to put the story in the right time i.e. 'Back to the Future' then I am ok with it, although if the "time machine" keeps breaking all the time then after a few "trips" one does wonder why you would keep using it. So I vote for the first option, but if you can find away that the PC's trip back through time can never be done again then that option could work but could also be a can of worms.

Tiki Snakes
2010-08-24, 08:43 AM
I hate prophesy, personally.

One thing I would suggest, if they seem interested in the odd find...prompt them to discuss what they think it means, and cribb the better paranoid suggestions. :smallwink:

[edit] OH! You could also go with the curveball.

Sure, it looks just like you. But it's not. It's your Father! He was killed by [BBEG of the Week]!

Because then you get to drop his Pops on the party as the BBEG's apparently willing lieutenant later on.

kamikasei
2010-08-24, 08:47 AM
a) I'd probably most like for it to be an ancestor or previous life or something like that.

b) This sounds like a remarkably detailed stone engraving to give so sure a likeness. You must work your Dorfs to the bone.

J.Gellert
2010-08-24, 08:48 AM
Amnesia eh? You could do it like Planescape- something that happened in the past, and no time travel involved. The character is just that old. Maybe he's a fallen angel, or a normal person who made a deal with a devil for immortal life but got shafted in the deal and got amnesia too.

Bonus points if he had to ask for the amnesia later on because he wanted to forget terrible things of the past.

Edit: Or he erased his own memories in a Xanatos Gambit? I'm not sure how all that would go with the player, though, it is a bit extreme.

Binks
2010-08-24, 09:29 AM
One thing I would suggest, if they seem interested in the odd find...prompt them to discuss what they think it means, and cribb the better paranoid suggestions. :smallwink:

Precisely :P. I saw a motivator a while back that said. "The Plot. You write up something simple. The PCs deduce something complex. And gosh darn it if you don't like their idea better." Player's imaginations are a resource, just drop hints, see where they go with them, then create some more hints based on that.

dsmiles
2010-08-24, 10:02 AM
Precisely :P. I saw a motivator a while back that said. "The Plot. You write up something simple. The PCs deduce something complex. And gosh darn it if you don't like their idea better." Player's imaginations are a resource, just drop hints, see where they go with them, then create some more hints based on that.

This, +100 (obligatory text)

tcrudisi
2010-08-24, 11:06 AM
I hate prophesy, personally.

[edit] OH! You could also go with the curveball.

Sure, it looks just like you. But it's not. It's your Father! He was killed by [BBEG of the Week]!

Because then you get to drop his Pops on the party as the BBEG's apparently willing lieutenant later on.

I like this idea best. Although, I would do something like make the weapons slightly sentient... nothing beneficial (or very minorly beneficial at most), but able to tell stories (rarely, they don't talk often) about Pops and his exploits... but the weapons were lost before he became evil, so the weapons don't know about that.

Zaydos
2010-08-24, 11:10 AM
I'd go with either the "it's his dad" suggestion, or that it's a past life, or some sort of reincarnation.

I like the eternal champion idea :smallredface:

KillianHawkeye
2010-08-24, 11:32 AM
Well, how did he get the weapons exactly? Did he just get them as normal loot or was it some kinda special hidden treasure that could have been set up specifically for him to find again later?

Roderick_BR
2010-08-24, 11:36 AM
Alternative for the prophecy thing: The image could actually be of an ancestor, in an ancient battle, and the image was left as a warning of a similar battle that may happen again, so the character may either have to stop it from happening at all, or be the champion of the new battle.

NeutralAwesome
2010-08-24, 12:01 PM
If the big bad is devious enough, make it a -false- prohpecy? He got his memories erased by the big bad and now it is seeding false clues to direct the guy into some horrible situation of his own making! This would give lots of room for all kinds of shenanigans down the road.

dsmiles
2010-08-24, 12:04 PM
shenanigans

I finally figured out the missing step...

1. Something
2. Shenanigans
3. Profit!

ShaggyMarco
2010-08-24, 12:12 PM
It's him in the past.

He was cursed and ages backwards. He's a really old dude who has de-aged into the prime of his life. This tablet is a clue towards curing his amnesia which will involve finding a way to reverse the curse and get back all of his memories.

Maybe he finds out he has kids who are fully grown or even apparently OLDER than him--maybe party members or enemy NPCs?

How'd he get those weapons he just got? Maybe they were his long ago, and the place they found them is a clue to the people who took his memory, reversed his aging, and took his stuff.

Maybe HE was a big-bad and was cursed by heroes, given a chance to turn over a new leaf?

Lord Vampyre
2010-08-24, 12:42 PM
Yeah, I like the immortality angle. The weapons were always his, but he lost them the same time he lost his memory.

Make the sketch his last battle with the BBEG, a battle which he is doomed to repeat. This gives an element of prophesy with the vision of the past.

Jolly
2010-08-24, 12:43 PM
Well, as you did ask what "I" would want...

I really dislike prophecy, myself. It's railroading at it's worst. "Oh sure, you have free choice. You are also the chosen one who is the only person able to stop the apocalypse, but hey..." Not to mention being one of the most over-used rpg cliches there is. So whenever the choice is "Prophecy about pc's vs something else" you can guess what I'd prefer. :) But it's really more of a "What does the pc in question enjoy" thing, I would think.

JBento
2010-08-24, 01:00 PM
My vote goes with the Planescape: Torment angle, if for no other reason that the game is awesome, and remains the RPG with better plot EVAH!

And consider: do you know what the player's intended build is? Your post seems to indicate him being from a martial class - if he intends to go with Undying Warrior as his Epic Destiny, then the P:T angle fits incredibly perfectly. :smallsmile:

In any way, don't be inconsequent: say "no" to timetravel. :smallwink:

Loren
2010-08-24, 02:50 PM
I'd go with a Wheel of Time thing. time is cyclical so the past is the future, thus it is a prophesy and a historical record at the sametime. This leaes the character asking, "how did I win last time?" (being ages ago). The real catch should be that it was a partial victory (leading to the cyclical nature of the problem aka a literally reoccuring villian) so that the really intelligent question is, "what did I do? and how could I have done it better?"

FullofQuestions
2010-08-24, 03:58 PM
I hate prophesy, personally.

One thing I would suggest, if they seem interested in the odd find...prompt them to discuss what they think it means, and cribb the better paranoid suggestions. :smallwink:

[edit] OH! You could also go with the curveball.

Sure, it looks just like you. But it's not. It's your Father! He was killed by [BBEG of the Week]!

Because then you get to drop his Pops on the party as the BBEG's apparently willing lieutenant later on.

I was actually already thinking about this one. I thought maybe his dad could become an NPC later.


a) I'd probably most like for it to be an ancestor or previous life or something like that.

b) This sounds like a remarkably detailed stone engraving to give so sure a likeness. You must work your Dorfs to the bone.

I was also thinking about making it a previous life, and incorporate the fact that he willing accepted amnesia for a second chance.


Well, how did he get the weapons exactly? Did he just get them as normal loot or was it some kinda special hidden treasure that could have been set up specifically for him to find again later?

A mixture I guess. They were just normal axes, but they were given to him by his father while he was growing up, which is another reason I was thinking about going with the father idea.




In any way, don't be inconsequent: say "no" to timetravel. :smallwink:

I am leaning away from time travel.

mobdrazhar
2010-08-24, 05:18 PM
i'm a +1 on the pops angle... it works as motivation for the PC

Jolly
2010-08-24, 06:51 PM
I was also thinking about making it a previous life, and incorporate the fact that he willing accepted amnesia for a second chance.



A mixture I guess. They were just normal axes, but they were given to him by his father while he was growing up, which is another reason I was thinking about going with the father idea.


I'm confused. If he's amnesiac, how does he know he received the axes in childhood?

arrowhen
2010-08-24, 08:26 PM
As a player, I'd be irked by a DM telling me what my character did in the future. Isn't that my call?

On the other hand, as a DM, I hate "I have amnesia, so write my backstory for me, but you'd better make it special and unique, because everyone knows amnesiacs never turn out to be humble carpenters" with the hate of a thousand burning hates, so I guess it's fair.

Personally, I'd go with it being an ancestor.

Lady Moreta
2010-08-24, 09:38 PM
I'm confused. If he's amnesiac, how does he know he received the axes in childhood?

Because he's not a total amnesiac?

There are degrees of amnesia, just like there are degrees of almost every other medical condition out there. It depends on what caused the trauma, and how severe the damage was. If it was a mental/pscyhological shock, then he might just be blocking out the days surrounding the event, and would consequently remember everything from his childhood. If it was a physical trauma, then it really would depend on the severity. He might remember everything from his childhood (and so remember getting the axes) but nothing beyond the age of 21 when the trauma ocurred.

Knowing about the amnesia, what caused it and how severe it is, could actually help make up your mind as to what the deal is with the lookalike.

Otherwise, I like the it's-his-father idea too. As much as the time travel episodes from Star Trek are among my favourites, time travel is headache inducing :smallsmile:

Tiki Snakes
2010-08-24, 09:55 PM
If you really, really wanted to mess with the guy...

It's actually just his heroic father, and those are his father's weapons. As he gets to the BBEG, his now non-heroic father tries to stop them, eventually dying.

Later, the BBEG completes his plot and damages time. The only way to stop reality unravelling is if he goes through the rift, and they close it on both sides.

He does exactly that, is stranded in the past. Goes out of his way not to mess with the timeline, but eventually comes to attach to people and begin to care for a sweet young girl.

She is his mother, he gets her pregnant with himself, and realises that he has done this only when she gives birth to his younger self.

He goes into battle with the young BBEG knowing that not only will he fail, he will be corrupted entirely in the process, to perform who knows what horrible deeds until the day that his younger self finally arrives and slays both him and the BBEG, only to come through the rift again and continue the paradoxical cycle.

Mind suitably scarred by the whole thing, Old self makes a faustian deal with the BBEG as he is defeated, that he will serve in exchange for him wiping his memory. Little does he realise, due to the way the magic works, it wipes his younger self's memory at the same time.
Loop closed, BBEG killed and Reality Saved, but he is his own father and has also already killed himself.

Of course, you'd pretty much have to do everything past the point where he steps through the time rift in cutscene form, and you'd need a great BS reason for it having to be him to go through, and it'd be a colossal ****-move, but you've got to admit it would be a little lulzy.

chaotoroboto
2010-08-24, 10:01 PM
If the big bad is devious enough, make it a -false- prohpecy? He got his memories erased by the big bad and now it is seeding false clues to direct the guy into some horrible situation of his own making! This would give lots of room for all kinds of shenanigans down the road.

Or alternately, a stone that has some kind of weird residual magic that causes it to portray nearby people. If he comes back to the stone after a week or so, it could have a completely different portrait of him.

uglymartini13
2010-08-24, 10:28 PM
I think it would be awesome it would be a fight yet to come but since he found this he can have the choice of changing the outcome to his favor or write two things depending who he choses to win. It could open up a lot of possibillites for the campaign.

FullofQuestions
2010-08-24, 11:03 PM
I'm confused. If he's amnesiac, how does he know he received the axes in childhood?

Refer to Lady's post. She is correct in filling in the gaps.


If you really, really wanted to mess with the guy...

It's actually just his heroic father, and those are his father's weapons. As he gets to the BBEG, his now non-heroic father tries to stop them, eventually dying.

Later, the BBEG completes his plot and damages time. The only way to stop reality unravelling is if he goes through the rift, and they close it on both sides.

He does exactly that, is stranded in the past. Goes out of his way not to mess with the timeline, but eventually comes to attach to people and begin to care for a sweet young girl.

She is his mother, he gets her pregnant with himself, and realises that he has done this only when she gives birth to his younger self.

He goes into battle with the young BBEG knowing that not only will he fail, he will be corrupted entirely in the process, to perform who knows what horrible deeds until the day that his younger self finally arrives and slays both him and the BBEG, only to come through the rift again and continue the paradoxical cycle.

Mind suitably scarred by the whole thing, Old self makes a faustian deal with the BBEG as he is defeated, that he will serve in exchange for him wiping his memory. Little does he realise, due to the way the magic works, it wipes his younger self's memory at the same time.
Loop closed, BBEG killed and Reality Saved, but he is his own father and has also already killed himself.

Of course, you'd pretty much have to do everything past the point where he steps through the time rift in cutscene form, and you'd need a great BS reason for it having to be him to go through, and it'd be a colossal ****-move, but you've got to admit it would be a little lulzy.

Very creative thinking. Well done.


I think it would be awesome it would be a fight yet to come but since he found this he can have the choice of changing the outcome to his favor or write two things depending who he choses to win. It could open up a lot of possibillites for the campaign.


I never thought about this until now, but the story that came along with the pictures on the fountain (that's where he found it) wore off as the story went on. The reason for that, the one that I as DM gave anyway was because the water pouring over the fountain wore away the stone. Perhaps the story will come back more and more as he continues his journey?? This is a idea I like very much.

Now, I'm torn. Either it's his dad and the story has already happened, or it's him and the story is writing itself as he goes on. Hmmmmmm?

Balain
2010-08-24, 11:34 PM
simple answer I would avoid time travel and go with it is some sort of prophecy or it was an ancient relative.

mobdrazhar
2010-08-24, 11:37 PM
There is an illusion spell on it that anyone who looks at the stone see what they most desire

BobVosh
2010-08-24, 11:55 PM
The BBEG, using the appropriate artifact of doomful future sight, makes this mural in order to convince the PC to fight in a fight that will lead to his death.

Wacky hi-jinks ensure, etc, so forth.

Kalim
2010-08-25, 01:12 AM
He is a champion reincarnated every few ages by his deity to challenge some great evil in the world, and the monument is of a past age where he saved the city/nation/world from some peril!

Maybe he finds some crusty old retainers who were alive last time he'd walked the world? Elves, perhaps, if it makes sense.

Dr Gunsforhands
2010-08-25, 01:52 AM
So we've really explored relation, time travel, and prophecy so far pretty good.

So here's my idea:

Your PC possessed important military secrets/knowledge/powers necessary to turn the tide of battle. On the eve of the battle depicted in the pictures, your PC was attacked by a special type of spell that can assume the memories and powers of their target (a side effect being that they also have to bear a resemblance). The shapeshifter was much older than the PC at the time so when he assumed your PC's identiity, he appeared as a much older version of the PC.

The double then used the secrets/knowledge/powers it gained to change the tide of the battle to it's own ends. The PC suffered amnesia due to transfer process.

This PC now has an evil double out there possessing his own face and powers. Does the double use the weapons because he was influenced by the PC's mind transfer, or does the PC use the double's weapons because of the double's influence?

FullofQuestions
2010-08-26, 05:45 PM
So we've really explored relation, time travel, and prophecy so far pretty good.

So here's my idea:

Your PC possessed important military secrets/knowledge/powers necessary to turn the tide of battle. On the eve of the battle depicted in the pictures, your PC was attacked by a special type of spell that can assume the memories and powers of their target (a side effect being that they also have to bear a resemblance). The shapeshifter was much older than the PC at the time so when he assumed your PC's identiity, he appeared as a much older version of the PC.

The double then used the secrets/knowledge/powers it gained to change the tide of the battle to it's own ends. The PC suffered amnesia due to transfer process.

This PC now has an evil double out there possessing his own face and powers. Does the double use the weapons because he was influenced by the PC's mind transfer, or does the PC use the double's weapons because of the double's influence?

This is an interesting perspective as well. I may have to incorporate it. Thanks.

devinkowalczyk
2010-08-26, 09:33 PM
It has nothing to do with him
I found a picture of someone that I look just like but it doesnt mean anything.

But let him think it means somethign