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Volos
2010-08-24, 11:05 PM
I'm playing in a game where we were told to take 6 gestalt levels before taking 6 regular levels, where half of the gestalt had to be warlock. I've always wondered how it would be to sneak attack with Eldritch Blast, so I went ahead and made a Warlock / Rogue. I've already got my Eldritch Blast up to 4d6 (6d6 with items) and I have my sneak attack at 6d6. With the Beguiling Influence invocation and being able to take a '12' on bluff with a certian rogue skill and feat, I'm maxed for bluff. If I use improved fient in combat and strike with my Eldritch Glaive, catching the opponent off guard, I will generally be rolling against an AC of 10, right? I only ask this because I happen to have rediculous intimidate, and using intimidating strike to put my foe at shaken would be nice if he survives the attack.

Mongoose87
2010-08-24, 11:08 PM
Is feint melee-only? Otherwise, this might be the only time it's not really a trap.

TaintedLight
2010-08-24, 11:11 PM
Is feint melee-only? Otherwise, this might be the only time it's not really a trap.

There IS actually a Bow Feint feat. I think it's from a Dragon mag, but it's not limited to bows. Any ranged attack within 30 feet. Don't remember the prereqs, let me go find it.

EDIT: Damn. It's only for weapons.

PId6
2010-08-24, 11:15 PM
Is feint melee-only? Otherwise, this might be the only time it's not really a trap.
Nope, still a trap. Feinting only applies to one attack, so that's only the first hit of an Eldritch Glaive. And even then, feint is a move action with Improved Feint only, so you can't even use Eldritch Glaive without some way to get extra actions. Not a good idea at all.

With Eldritch Glaive, flanking will probably work best. Alternatively, get a Ring of Blinking or a method of Greater Invisibility (Use Magic Device is your friend) and Sneak Attack that way. A one or two level dip in Swordsage gets you Distracting Embers and Cloak of Deception, which guarantees two rounds of full Sneak Attacks each encounter, along with the ever-awesome Assassin's Stance.

Krazddndfreek
2010-08-24, 11:20 PM
Well, if you take beguiler instead of rogue and the Improved Feint feat, you can feint as a swift action. Still only one sneak attack per feint, but you can only make on attack per round with Eldritch blast anyway. If you go the ranged route as I believe that weapon-like spells qualify as weapons for the purposes of feats.

gorfnab
2010-08-24, 11:45 PM
If you must feint then take the feat Surprising Riposte from Drow of the Underdark since that will at least keep your target flat-footed for any iterative attacks you can pull off if you can somehow get feinting as a swift action.

TaintedLight
2010-08-24, 11:54 PM
Scarlet Corsair PrC gives you the ability to do a free action feint every so often?

Mongoose87
2010-08-25, 06:29 AM
Nope, still a trap. Feinting only applies to one attack, so that's only the first hit of an Eldritch Glaive. And even then, feint is a move action with Improved Feint only, so you can't even use Eldritch Glaive without some way to get extra actions. Not a good idea at all.

With Eldritch Glaive, flanking will probably work best. Alternatively, get a Ring of Blinking or a method of Greater Invisibility (Use Magic Device is your friend) and Sneak Attack that way. A one or two level dip in Swordsage gets you Distracting Embers and Cloak of Deception, which guarantees two rounds of full Sneak Attacks each encounter, along with the ever-awesome Assassin's Stance.

Ahh, I didn't see that he wanted to use Glaive. My bad.

Greenish
2010-08-25, 09:44 AM
Well, if you take beguiler instead of rogue and the Improved Feint feat, you can feint as a swift action. Still only one sneak attack per feintIf he uses beguilers instead of rogue, he won't have Sneak Attack to use. :smallamused:

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-25, 10:11 AM
A dip into Swordsage nets you access to Island of Blades... you can flank as long as ANY ally is adjacent to the target at hand. Making flanking MUCH easier to accomplish.

Darkness + Devil's Sight also works well. Cast Darkness on self. You now have Concealment to Hide in, but your vision is not impaired. Take a feat from DotUD to be able to use HiPS as well.

Ring of Blinking doesn't work, because it negates SA.
If the attacker can see invisible creatures, the miss chance is also only 20%. (For an attacker who can both see and strike ethereal creatures, there is no miss chance.) Likewise, your own attacks have a 20% miss chance, since you sometimes go ethereal just as you are about to strike.
Because your opponents have a miss chance, you loose all sneak attack dice. This is a trap.

If someone in the party wants to be a Warblade or Crusader, they can get the White Raven Tactical feat Clarion Call, and make a flat DC20 Intimidate check to declare opponent flat-footed for a minute.

PId6
2010-08-25, 10:47 AM
Ring of Blinking doesn't work, because it negates SA.
Because your opponents have a miss chance, you loose all sneak attack dice. This is a trap.
Untrue.

A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.
The miss chance has to specifically come from concealment for Sneak Attack to not apply.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-25, 11:19 AM
Untrue.

The miss chance has to specifically come from concealment for Sneak Attack to not apply.

Then how does it grant sneak attacks in any way that a Ring of Invisibility doesn't do both better and cheaper? And you'd still need a Ghost Touch weapon just to be able to not have a chance of missing your target.

PId6
2010-08-25, 12:13 PM
Then how does it grant sneak attacks in any way that a Ring of Invisibility doesn't do both better and cheaper? And you'd still need a Ghost Touch weapon just to be able to not have a chance of missing your target.
Ring of Invisibility only gives you regular Invisibility, not Greater Invisibility, so you'll go visible after one attack. It also costs a standard action to activate again. Not very helpful if you want to full Sneak Attack.

Ring of Blinking provides great offensive and defensive benefits and allows you to full Sneak Attack. You can negate the drawback via the Pierce Magical Concealment feat, though that's a bit feat-heavy. Even with 20% miss chance, it's still one of the best ways of allowing full Sneak Attack from range. Ghost Touch unfortunately doesn't help since you're ethereal while Blinking, not incorporeal.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-25, 01:28 PM
Ring of Invisibility only gives you regular Invisibility, not Greater Invisibility, so you'll go visible after one attack. It also costs a standard action to activate again. Not very helpful if you want to full Sneak Attack.

Ring of Blinking provides great offensive and defensive benefits and allows you to full Sneak Attack. You can negate the drawback via the Pierce Magical Concealment feat, though that's a bit feat-heavy. Even with 20% miss chance, it's still one of the best ways of allowing full Sneak Attack from range. Ghost Touch unfortunately doesn't help since you're ethereal while Blinking, not incorporeal.

Unless opponent can See Invis, in which case it no longer grants Sneak Attack...

PId6
2010-08-25, 01:31 PM
Unless opponent can See Invis, in which case it no longer grants Sneak Attack...
Still better than Ring of Invisibility. Besides, that's what the Wand of Invisible Fog Cloud is for. :smalltongue:

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-25, 01:47 PM
Still better than Ring of Invisibility. Besides, that's what the Wand of Invisible Fog Cloud is for. :smalltongue:

1) Metamagic effects may not be put in wands, except in the instances of certain class abilities which allow you to use metamagic feats on use-activated items

2) Let's hope *you* don't see invis, in which case you lock yourself down again.

It sounds like a complicated and convoluted way of going about doing things. Darkness + Devil's Sight does everything you need without having a significant investment in feats or gear, since you already have 6 free levels of Warlock.

I'd also suggest a level dip in Swordsage for Island of Blades for superior flanking ability, since you're going melee anyways.

PId6
2010-08-25, 02:06 PM
1) Metamagic effects may not be put in wands, except in the instances of certain class abilities which allow you to use metamagic feats on use-activated items
Wrong. Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#metamagicFeats).

Magic Items and Metamagic Spells

With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn’t need the metamagic feat to activate an item storing a metamagic version of a spell.
In fact, an Invisible spell doesn't even cost any more than a regular one inside a wand/scroll, though it might be harder to find depending on DM fiat.

enderrocksonall
2010-08-25, 03:00 PM
I've always felt the best way to run a character is to not rely on items to keep them running.

If you want the invisibility and sneak attack without the items, you can replace your levels of rogue with levels of Ninja. Their swift action Invisibility is actually a Greater Invisibility.

Also around 6th level the warlock gets the ability to cast a 24-hour invisibility spell. This one does operate like a regular invisibility, but you can probably argue that you get a full attack with surprise, if the enemy was unaware of ANY enemy threat when you made your first attack.

I made a gestalt character with these classes once, and gave him the vow of poverty feat from BoED, and it made the guy damn near unkillable. The DM threw a beholder at us and spent most of its attacks shooting stuff at my guy(a few rounds he actually did throw all his attacks at me) and my guy ended the fight with only about 15 hp off of him.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-25, 07:10 PM
I've always felt the best way to run a character is to not rely on items to keep them running.

If you want the invisibility and sneak attack without the items, you can replace your levels of rogue with levels of Ninja. Their swift action Invisibility is actually a Greater Invisibility.

Also around 6th level the warlock gets the ability to cast a 24-hour invisibility spell. This one does operate like a regular invisibility, but you can probably argue that you get a full attack with surprise, if the enemy was unaware of ANY enemy threat when you made your first attack.

I made a gestalt character with these classes once, and gave him the vow of poverty feat from BoED, and it made the guy damn near unkillable. The DM threw a beholder at us and spent most of its attacks shooting stuff at my guy(a few rounds he actually did throw all his attacks at me) and my guy ended the fight with only about 15 hp off of him.

A character that would be nearly unkillable would be Monk2/Crusader xx. Gets both evasion and Mettle, has the saves necessary to make use of them, and has many ways to simply say 'no'.

kestrel404
2010-08-25, 09:39 PM
Invisible blade. You need 3 feats, all useless, but at level 5 you can feint as a free action. You need to be holding a dagger or kukri, but you don't necessarily have to attack with it.

As for feinting, as long as you are in melee combat range of the target, you can feint against them. This denies them their dex bonus against your next attack. Eldritch Glaive, as a weapon-like spell used at melee (reach) range, counts as a melee attack. So I see no problem with this combo.

Greenish
2010-08-25, 09:55 PM
Invisible blade. You need 3 feats, all useless, but at level 5 you can feint as a free action. You need to be holding a dagger or kukri, but you don't necessarily have to attack with it.

As for feinting, as long as you are in melee combat range of the target, you can feint against them. This denies them their dex bonus against your next attack. Eldritch Glaive, as a weapon-like spell used at melee (reach) range, counts as a melee attack. So I see no problem with this combo.Well, except Bluff only allows SA with the first attack. (Invisible Blade's free action feint was errata'ed to 1/round.)

enderrocksonall
2010-08-28, 02:31 AM
A character that would be nearly unkillable would be Monk2/Crusader xx. Gets both evasion and Mettle, has the saves necessary to make use of them, and has many ways to simply say 'no'.

Where are you pulling the Crusader from? I don't think I have seen that class before.

EDIT: Nevermind I found it. First of all Mettle is an ability that you don't get until 13th level. The Warlock3/Ninja3 I made was level 6 and he basically solo'ed a beholder. As a 6th level gestalt character he would be even buffer with his 24-hour invisibility and 24-hour Dark One's Own Luck. After a while you could probably drop the Ninja levels for something like Paladin or fighter to give yourself better attack and damage.

EvilJames
2010-08-30, 03:58 PM
Hideous blow is a fun invocation as well, particularly if you end up with a nice dagger or other weapon to stack on some more damage.

Mongoose87
2010-08-30, 04:19 PM
Hideous blow is a fun invocation as well, particularly if you end up with a nice dagger or other weapon to stack on some more damage.

Hideous blow hideously blows. Eldritch Glaive is better at the same role in every way.

true_shinken
2010-08-30, 04:36 PM
Hideous blow hideously blows. Eldritch Glaive is better at the same role in every way.

And Eldritch Claw is even better.

Soranar
2010-08-30, 04:40 PM
so you get 6 levels of warlock/rogue?

take the mage hand feat and go for the arcane trickster prestige class

impromptu sneak attack will work just fine, you'll progress your eldritch blast, casting and sneak attack with it too

only thing you lose is some BAB and you'll need the feat that gives you the mage hand spell from complete arcane (or tome of magic, I never remember)

Admiral Squish
2010-08-30, 04:41 PM
And Eldritch Claw is even better.

Where's that? Why haven't I heard of it yet?

Yeah, honestly, one of my favorite gestalts is warlock//scout or rogue.

true_shinken
2010-08-30, 04:47 PM
Where's that? Why haven't I heard of it yet?

Yeah, honestly, one of my favorite gestalts is warlock//scout or rogue.

It's from Dragon Magazine. Check the handbook in my sig.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-30, 04:49 PM
Where are you pulling the Crusader from? I don't think I have seen that class before.

EDIT: Nevermind I found it. First of all Mettle is an ability that you don't get until 13th level. The Warlock3/Ninja3 I made was level 6 and he basically solo'ed a beholder. As a 6th level gestalt character he would be even buffer with his 24-hour invisibility and 24-hour Dark One's Own Luck. After a while you could probably drop the Ninja levels for something like Paladin or fighter to give yourself better attack and damage.

Crusader also gets a high Fort save and get Cha bonus to their Will save, which is pretty much the same thing as Dark One's Own Luck without needing to blow an Invocation on it. At level 1.

They also get a lot of fun maneuvers and stances, including auto-healing on every hit, DR, and other methods of saying 'no thanks, I decline to be affected/hit by that'.

I don't see how a warlock3/ninja3 solo'd a Beholder, barring the DM saying "I'm not going to kill you, so I'm going to nerf it's attacks" unless you min/maxed your touch AC, because it can shoot every eye in one turn. Disintegrate, Charm, Petrify... you're gonna fail something. It's worse than a Prismatic Wall.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-08-30, 05:22 PM
so you get 6 levels of warlock/rogue?

take the mage hand feat and go for the arcane trickster prestige class

impromptu sneak attack will work just fine, you'll progress your eldritch blast, casting and sneak attack with it too

only thing you lose is some BAB and you'll need the feat that gives you the mage hand spell from complete arcane (or tome of magic, I never remember)

This is an excellent idea, though it will be difficult to get the 3rd level arcane spells required. Consider taking Unseen Seer instead, from Complete Mage. Start out Warlock 6// Rogue 5/ Assassin 1 to meet the spellcsasting requirement, both your 1st level spells known will have to be divinations unless you spend a feat on Insightful from Complete Arcane. I'd just get True Strike and either Instant Search or Instant Locksmith. Take Unseen Seer after that, and you may want to apply at least four levels of it to your Assassin spellcasting to get the 3rd level spells required for Arcane Trickster afterward. Another option would be to just go Warlock 6// Rogue 5/ Assassin 5/ Arcane Trickster 10. Use the feat Spell Hand in Complete Arcane to get Mage Hand, or use Whisper Gnome from Races of Stone as they get that as a racial spell-like ability. That also allows you to take the feats Silencing Strike and Extra Silence, it only works on melee attacks though so Eldritch Glaive will be a good choice.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-30, 05:36 PM
This is an excellent idea, though it will be difficult to get the 3rd level arcane spells required. Consider taking Unseen Seer instead, from Complete Mage. Start out Warlock 6// Rogue 5/ Assassin 1 to meet the spellcsasting requirement, both your 1st level spells known will have to be divinations unless you spend a feat on Insightful from Complete Arcane. I'd just get True Strike and either Instant Search or Instant Locksmith. Take Unseen Seer after that, and you may want to apply at least four levels of it to your Assassin spellcasting to get the 3rd level spells required for Arcane Trickster afterward. Another option would be to just go Warlock 6// Rogue 5/ Assassin 5/ Arcane Trickster 10. Use the feat Spell Hand in Complete Arcane to get Mage Hand, or use Whisper Gnome from Races of Stone as they get that as a racial spell-like ability. That also allows you to take the feats Silencing Strike and Extra Silence, it only works on melee attacks though so Eldritch Glaive will be a good choice.

Nosomatic Chirugeon is also a good one. Warlock6//Rogue5/NC1 to start with, then move effortlessly into Arcane Trickster the following level. NC lets you cast spells of x level, meeting that requirement. Mage Hand feat to qualify for that requirement, and you're good to go.

Soranar
2010-08-30, 05:36 PM
no need for casting level 3 arcane spells

you need 1 spell of level 3 or higher , invocations are considered spells and qualify you for the class ,normally the only difficulty for a warlock is getting the sneak attack

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-30, 05:37 PM
no need for casting level 3 arcane spells

you need 1 spell of level 3 or higher , invocations are considered spells and qualify you for the class ,normally the only difficulty for a warlock is getting the sneak attack

Sorry, but that is incorrect. You need the ability to cast a spell of 3rd level or higher. SLA's don't count.

flabort
2010-08-30, 05:41 PM
Uh, guys. OP states it's 6 gestalt +6 normal, so he's a Warlock 6//rogue 12.

Why do you keep assuming it's WL 6//R 6?

he won't be needing to gain levels into that PrC, he can start out with them, if he wants. Although, I wouldn't take that particular PrC, just because. there are others. others that hinge off of warlock, instead of rogue.

but I'm a noob. what do I know, right? feel free to disregard me.

enderrocksonall
2010-08-30, 09:20 PM
Crusader also gets a high Fort save and get Cha bonus to their Will save, which is pretty much the same thing as Dark One's Own Luck without needing to blow an Invocation on it. At level 1.

They also get a lot of fun maneuvers and stances, including auto-healing on every hit, DR, and other methods of saying 'no thanks, I decline to be affected/hit by that'.

I don't see how a warlock3/ninja3 solo'd a Beholder, barring the DM saying "I'm not going to kill you, so I'm going to nerf it's attacks" unless you min/maxed your touch AC, because it can shoot every eye in one turn. Disintegrate, Charm, Petrify... you're gonna fail something. It's worse than a Prismatic Wall.

The Cha bonus to Will saves is a 2nd level ability for a crusader. And if that is the big draw to the crusader you may as well go paladin for 2 levels and get the bonus to all saves.

Also the maneuvers you are referring to that give DR and auto-healing are only usable once per encounter. Maneuvers were the precursor to 4th edition's encounter powers. Crusaders do regain their maneuvers throughout an encounter, but the ones they start with and the ones they regain are completely at random. So there is no guarantee that you will have the maneuver you want at the moment you want it.

The Steely Resolve ability isn't actually DR, it just delays you taking the damage for one round. Kind of a nice ability, but it is essentially no different than taking the damage and having the Die Hard feat.

As for my character surviving an encounter with a beholder, it was over 4 years ago, so I have to kind of guess at how it happened. But the beholder only has a +9 attack roll, which means that his highest roll without a nat 20 is 28.

All I have to do is get my touch AC up to the mid 20's and there is a really great chance of not getting hit. A high powered game like we run in allows for some high scores in both Dex and Wis.

Starting gold goes towards some Wis boosting items to raise both AC and Will. The party cleric gives a good 3 or 4 deflection bonus with Shield of Faith.

For anything that does hit, I might have used the Entropic Warding invocation for a 20% miss chance.

EvilJames
2010-08-31, 03:47 AM
Hideous blow hideously blows. Eldritch Glaive is better at the same role in every way.
What book is eldritch glaive in I'm not familiar with it. Also I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on hideous Blow I've gotten some good use out if it with a warlock psychic warrior. (how ever if Eldritch glaive is as good as you say I may have to switch.) Nice word play though.

Mongoose87
2010-08-31, 08:41 AM
What book is eldritch glaive in I'm not familiar with it. Also I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on hideous Blow I've gotten some good use out if it with a warlock psychic warrior. (how ever if Eldritch glaive is as good as you say I may have to switch.) Nice word play though.

Eldritch Glaive is from Dragon Magic, IIRC, and it lets you make a full attack of touch attacks, using your Eldritch blast damage. Very nice.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-31, 06:53 PM
The Cha bonus to Will saves is a 2nd level ability for a crusader. And if that is the big draw to the crusader you may as well go paladin for 2 levels and get the bonus to all saves. That's rather the icing under the cake, actually...


Also the maneuvers you are referring to that give DR and auto-healing are only usable once per encounter. Maneuvers were the precursor to 4th edition's encounter powers. Crusaders do regain their maneuvers throughout an encounter, but the ones they start with and the ones they regain are completely at random. So there is no guarantee that you will have the maneuver you want at the moment you want it. Actually, you got it backwards. Crusader maneuver refreshing is the most powerful of the three, because with their relatively low number of maneuvers known, and an identical number which are active, effectively all their maneuvers refresh every round, automatically.

Also, the auto-healing? That's a stance. As in always-on, and always effective.

Other maneuvers they get access to? Hmm... How about 2d6 Con damage? Or infiinite damage loop? Or just plain saying 'no' to any given effect?


The Steely Resolve ability isn't actually DR, it just delays you taking the damage for one round. Kind of a nice ability, but it is essentially no different than taking the damage and having the Die Hard feat. It's Stone Dragon that has a bunch of DR maneuvers, it also has 'bypass opponent DR and add a handful of damage, or bypass DR and do Con damage too' type of maneuvers.

Steely Resolve also gives bonus damage, which can get *stupidly* broken when combined with Robilar's Gambit and certain other feats in ToB.


As for my character surviving an encounter with a beholder, it was over 4 years ago, so I have to kind of guess at how it happened. But the beholder only has a +9 attack roll, which means that his highest roll without a nat 20 is 28.

All I have to do is get my touch AC up to the mid 20's and there is a really great chance of not getting hit. A high powered game like we run in allows for some high scores in both Dex and Wis. Then it was a hella-nerfed Beholder, who normally has like a +15 to start off with.


Starting gold goes towards some Wis boosting items to raise both AC and Will. The party cleric gives a good 3 or 4 deflection bonus with Shield of Faith. Cleric doesn't give more than +2 deflection bonus until after level 6. Try again. Plus it's only single-target, requires Touch to land, and only lasts Rounds/Level, so at level 3, it'd have only lasted 3 rounds.


For anything that does hit, I might have used the Entropic Warding invocation for a 20% miss chance.Good idea when facing RTA's, but still not going to save you from eight touch attack or die effects being slung at you per round.

enderrocksonall
2010-09-01, 04:15 PM
That's rather the icing under the cake, actually...

Actually, you got it backwards. Crusader maneuver refreshing is the most powerful of the three, because with their relatively low number of maneuvers known, and an identical number which are active, effectively all their maneuvers refresh every round, automatically.

Also, the auto-healing? That's a stance. As in always-on, and always effective.

Other maneuvers they get access to? Hmm... How about 2d6 Con damage? Or infiinite damage loop? Or just plain saying 'no' to any given effect?

It's Stone Dragon that has a bunch of DR maneuvers, it also has 'bypass opponent DR and add a handful of damage, or bypass DR and do Con damage too' type of maneuvers.

Steely Resolve also gives bonus damage, which can get *stupidly* broken when combined with Robilar's Gambit and certain other feats in ToB.

Then it was a hella-nerfed Beholder, who normally has like a +15 to start off with.

Cleric doesn't give more than +2 deflection bonus until after level 6. Try again. Plus it's only single-target, requires Touch to land, and only lasts Rounds/Level, so at level 3, it'd have only lasted 3 rounds.

Good idea when facing RTA's, but still not going to save you from eight touch attack or die effects being slung at you per round.

First off, my party was level 8. I was starting 2 levels below them because my previous character had died. So all the stuff about a level 3 shield of faith (where you got level 3 from is beyond me. I said I was level 6.) is all supposed to be level 8.

Secondly, you should look in a monster manual, the beholder is only a +9 on its attacks. The smaller version of the beholder is only a +5 and I think he only gets 4 rays.

Third, yes steely resolve can give bonus damage, but it is capped at +6 bonus damage, which, while impressive, requires you to take 30 points of damage every round to keep it up.

I haven't looked very hard at the maneuvers and stances so you might be right about the auto healing thing, which makes it a cool maneuver. Maybe my dervish should look into a crusader dip...

But as for the rest of your arguments, you aren't giving examples you are just saying that they can say "no thanks" to damage and status effects, which according to their abilities in Tome of Battle, they can't do. This is of course without my looking at their maneuvers, but even if the maneuvers do let them do some of that stuff, they still only have access to their maneuvers randomly.

Also, I'm not sure what icing under the cake means...

And the beholder doesn't have eight save or die effects. As far as I can recall without the entry open in front of me, it doesn't have any save or die effects. It has 2 charm effects, and like 6 or 8 damage rays. I don't think it has a finger of death ray.