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Mordrigar
2010-08-25, 12:43 PM
Hi! As the title says, i need help (suggestions) for my DnD character.

I'm playing in FR campaign (Year: 1372 Kythorn) and have a character level 14. I'm planning to become one of the greatest spellcasters of that era. I know this is not an easy task but gonna try for it. As you see i'm playing with cliche: Ur Priest - Mystic Theurge. But after 3 levels (finishing MT class) i need to swap to another class. What should i choose?

I'm thinking about Incantrix (PgtF) but it seems i'm a bit late for it. And its free to use all "abuses", "bugs" and "tricks".

All 3.5e books (including dragon magazines but excepting Dragonlance, Eberron or Ravenloft Books) can be used.

Note: Party is really powerful at the moment: Cleric multiclass has +35 spot bonus and 45 AC also minimum 15 at each save, Druid/Sorc like class has better spot score than cleric and he can also cast spells while in wildshape etc etc.

Note 2: Alignment does not restricts class choosing. Feel free to advice "spesific alignment required" classes.
Thanks!
Here is my Character Sheet:


CHARACTER NAME ESCAD (RICHARD)
SURNAME
KNOWN AS
ALIGNMENT TRUE NEUTRAL
RELIGION FAITHLESS

RACE HUMAN
REGION WATERDEEP
TOTAL
ECL 14
HD 14
XP 102.199
CLASS( ES )
PALADIN OF FREEDOM (FALLEN) (1)
WIZARD (GENERALIST) (4)
UR-PRIEST (2)
MYSTIC THEURGE (7)


STR 10
DEX 10 +2 MAG = 12
CON 12
INT 18 +2 MAG = 20
WIS 15 +4 MAG = 19
CHA 8
LUCK 11

LANGUAGES
COMMON
CELESTIAL
DRACONIC
DWARVEN
INFERNAL
ELVEN


SKILLS 118 TOTAL
APPRAISE
BALANCE
BLUFF 6 - 1= 5
CLIMB 17 + 1 = 18
CONCENTRATION
CRAFT ( ALCHEMY )
CRAFT ( ARMORSMITH )
CRAFT ( MASONERY )
CRAFT ( WEAPONSMITH )
DECIPHER SCRIPT
DIPLOMACY
DISABLE DEVICE
DISGUISE
ESCAPE ARTIST
FORGERY
GATHER INFORMATION
HANDLE ANIMAL
HEAL 17 + 4 = 21
HIDE
INTIMIDATE
JUMP
KNOWLEDGE ( ARCANA ) 17 + 5 = 22
KNOWLEDGE ( FAIRYTALES ) 17 + 5 =22
KNOWLEDGE ( GEOGRAPHY )
KNOWLEDGE ( HISTORY )
KNOWLEDGE ( NATURE )
KNOWLEDGE ( PLANES ) 5 + 5 = 10
KNOWLEDGE ( RELIGION ) 17 + 5 = 22
KNOWLEDGE ( ROYALTY )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:ANAUROCH )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:CHULT )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCALAMARA )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:NARFELL )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:VAASA )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:CORMYR )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCALALELANDS )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:CORMANTHOR )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCALRAGON COAST )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:EVERMEET )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:MOONSHAE ISLES )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:LAKE OF STEAM )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:AMN )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:CALIMSHAN )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:TETHYR )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:MOONSEA )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:HIGH FOREST )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:SILVER MARCHES )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:SWORD COAST )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:SWORD COAST NORTH )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:WATERDEEP )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:CHESSENTA )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:MULHORAND )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:UNTHER )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:SEMBIA )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:THE GREAT RIFT )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:HALRUAA )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:LUIREN )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:THE SHAAR )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:AGLAROND )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:IMPILTUR )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:RASHEMEN )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:THAY )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:THESK )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:UNDERDARK )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:THE VAST )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:CHONDATH )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:SESPECH )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:TURMISH )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:WESTERN HEARTLANDS )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:KARA-TUR )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:MAZTICA )
KNOWLEDGE ( LOCAL:ZAKHARA )
KNOWLEDGE ( PSIONICS )
LISTEN
MARTIAL LORE
MOVE SILENTLY
OPEN LOCK
PERFORM
PERFORM DANCING
PROFESSION
RIDE
SEARCH
SENSE MOTIVE 5 + 4 = 9
SLEIGHT OF HAND
SPEAK LANGUAGE
SPELLCRAFT 17 + 5 + 2 = 24
SPOT
SURVIVAL
SWIM
TUMBLE
USE MAGIC DEVICE

FEATS 5 BASE + 1 HUMAN
1 MALIGN SPELL FOCUS
2 IRON WILL
3 IMPROVED INITIATIVE
4 ENLARGE SPELL
5 SUDDEN MAXIMIZE
6 ESCHEW MATERIALS


INVENTORY 47880 MAGICAL 71820 COMMON
PERIAPT OF WISDOM +4
CLOAK OF RESISTANCE +4
HEADBAND OF INTELLECT +2
MITHRAL TWILLIGHT CHAINSHIRT +1
BAG OF HOLDING TYPE II
RING OF SUSTENENCE
GLOVES OF DEXTERITY +2
POTION OF CURE SERIOUS WOUNDS X4
RING OF NERVESKITTER
FAMILIAR HUMMINGBIRD ( +4 INIT)
BOOTS OF TELEPORT
ROD OF METAMAGIC (QUICKEN)

BASE ATTACK 7
GRAPPLE 7

AT ( MELEE ) "+7 / +2
ATTACK OPTIONS
DAM 1D6
DAMAGE OPTIONS
CRITICAL "20 X2

AT ( RANGE ) 8 + 3
ATTACK OPTIONS
DAM
DAMAGE OPTIONS
CRITICAL

AC 10 + 5 + 1= 16
TOUCH AC 10 + 1 = 11
FLAT FOOTED AC 10 + 5 = 15
DAMAGE REDUCTION
INI 4 + 4 + 5 + 1 = 14

HP 57

S VS FORT 5 BASE + 1 ABIL + 4 = 10
S VS REF 3 BASE + +1 ABIL 4 MAG = 8
S VS WILL 12 BASE + 4 ABIL + 2 FEAT + 4 MAG = 22


POWER TYPE
ARCANE - DIVINE

CASTER LEVEL // DC
11 / 15 + SL
14 / 14 + SL


SPECIAL ABILITIES
REBUKE UNDEAD
SCRIBE SCROLL
SUMMON FAMILIAR


DEFEATED MONSTERS
VARIES

If you wonder how do i play with my character (how does he think, how does he act generally), here is his short background

He is only loyal to his friends (some of other PC's in game) and can do anything for power. He don't hesitate killing people for his own aims. He is already planning to create his own demi-plane. But He will do with undead servants in his castle until he reaches that power.

First of all, he is interested in "Life, afterlife, death and undeath". Because of his mother's unfortunate death in his childhood, he developed an obsession of trying to revive her. But since her mum died because of old age, he couldn't do anything. (No one could helped him.) (These happened when he was a Paladin of Helm) So he asked himself that why he should follow a God that never helps him? He intentionally fell, since he questioned and then lost his belief to his God. And this changed his whole life...

(Paladin level 1, Chaotic Good)

He tried to learn Arcane arts to become powerful but his intend was not anything selfish. He wanted that power to save and protect the weak. He was not a Paladin but still something good was there in his heart. But he was not as polite as paladins were. He slaughtered bad who did non-good acts with no mercy. Praying for mercy or running from him didn't even work. Killed them with his blade, followed them with his spells and killed more of them with both his spells and sword this time. After years, he realised that he could become more powerful if he continued studying on Arcane Arts. But this times, he wanted that "power" only for himself.

(Gained 4 wizard levels, turned Chaotic Neutral)

After years of Arcane studies, he realised another mighty power in universe: Divine Magic. Because of his insatiable power-lust he wanted to learn the secrets of the mighty magic that can be created by the divine. But since he left his own God, just like his past life behind, he seeked for another way to reach that power. Thus, as a result of his researchs he learned the existance of Ur-Priests: A group of heretics that steal Gods' divine powers for themselves. He learned about this cult and then he became one of them. As an ur-priest he stole divinity from Gods' eternal powers.

(Gained 2 levels of Ur-Priest and became evil, neutral )

With both his divine and arcane powers he felt that he is near unbeatable among his equals. But that was not enough for him. Then he searched better and more as he did before. This time, his purpose was harder then others: Combining all powers that he has. He worked even more on his spells. Tried to understand nature of magic: It's rules, exceptions and capabilities...
(Got metamagic feats this way.) After years of experiments, as a result of his efforts, he find a way to increase his adaptability for both Divine and Arcane arts in same time. He didn't need to have divide his researches more.

(Gained levels on Mystic Theurge, turned to True Neutral because of his friends, memories old "good" days etc.)

Now his only purpose is become more powerful: even more than Gods. He can do anything for this intention, except hurting his friends. Because they never left him while these things happened. They tried help him but he refused also.

As you see he is into necromancy, all kinds of divine magic (heals, hurts, helps), evocation, conjuration and transmussion. He is generalist wizard so don't have any prohibited school.

Before i forgot: His God was "Helm" before he falls. He does not like him but even with this, he can do his favor just because of reward. He is just Greedy and power hungry...


Note: I posted this to another web-site too. Hope it's not a problem for anyone.

Ernir
2010-08-25, 01:29 PM
Tainted Scholar (Heroes of Horror) would fit.

Just beware, it's... powerful.

Mordrigar
2010-08-25, 01:41 PM
I never thought that Tainted Scholar is that powerful. Bonusses like +1 caster level, 1d6 more damage or limited wish are not that "powerful" imo. Did i miss something with it?

(By the way, in game we don't use taint variant at the moment. But i can convince my DM to use it i think.)

Greenish
2010-08-25, 02:09 PM
I never thought that Tainted Scholar is that powerful. Bonusses like +1 caster level, 1d6 more damage or limited wish are not that "powerful" imo. Did i miss something with it?Bonus spells and spell DCs based on your taint score.

If you're undead, there's no limit on the taint score you can have, and you accumulate taint by (among other things) casting spells.

Adumbration
2010-08-25, 02:17 PM
Well, there's no point going for more divine casting, so advancing wizard casting is your best shot. Archmage, Incantatrix (still good at later levels, too), Initiate of Sevenfold veil or Abjurant Champion spring to mind.

Mordrigar
2010-08-25, 02:32 PM
Bonus spells and spell DCs based on your taint score.

If you're undead, there's no limit on the taint score you can have, and you accumulate taint by (among other things) casting spells.

Hmm... Nice trick. And being an undead with high taint score also gets you some free feats if i remember correctly. But in Faerun its not a good idea i think. I'm in adventurer group at the moment and we travel lot. Becoming undead could limit my travels. Kelemvor's and Lathender's clerics and good cities won't welcome me.

And Adumbration, as you say, i'm thinking about arcane caster classes. Incantrix could be a good choice but i won't able to complete it before epic levels. And his best ability comes at 10th level. :(
Also I never checked Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. What can i do with that class? Does it really worth 3 feats? (I don't have any required feats for it)

Adumbration
2010-08-25, 02:41 PM
And Adumbration, as you say, i'm thinking about arcane caster classes. Incantrix could be a good choice but i won't able to complete it before epic levels. And his best ability comes at 10th level. :(
Also I never checked Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. What can i do with that class? Does it really worth 3 feats? (I don't have any required feats for it)

I think it's worth it. It is widely considered one of the most powerful arcane prestige classes, alongside Incantatrix - it essentially gives you the ability to stop nearly any attack from reaching you or your allies, along side full casting and a bunch of other useful features.

It's been a while since I read the class thoroughly, so I can't describe it more accurately, but you can find it in Complete Arcane. It's also a 7 level prestige class, so you would get all of it in. I would personally replace Enlarge spell, Sudden Maximize and Eschew materials to qualify, but you could see if your DM will allow flaws. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm)

Mordrigar
2010-08-25, 04:25 PM
I think it's worth it. It is widely considered one of the most powerful arcane prestige classes, alongside Incantatrix - it essentially gives you the ability to stop nearly any attack from reaching you or your allies, along side full casting and a bunch of other useful features.

It's been a while since I read the class thoroughly, so I can't describe it more accurately, but you can find it in Complete Arcane. It's also a 7 level prestige class, so you would get all of it in. I would personally replace Enlarge spell, Sudden Maximize and Eschew materials to qualify, but you could see if your DM will allow flaws. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm)

Thanks for advices! I'll check that class. I'm still open for more ideas by the way. (Because there is a high chance of that i can't convince my DM to take that class without taking new feats)

Edit: I checked it and realised what a great thing that i missed. If i can't get it on my current character, i'll make a new one! But still looking for more ideas! lol

Mordrigar
2010-08-27, 08:15 PM
I know posting in a row like that is not legal in forums but i need help and still looking for ideas. :smalleek:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-08-28, 12:47 AM
The Arcane+Divine is not necessary at all, especially considering it's FR. Either full arcane or full divine will give you plenty of options, trying to use both will cost you some extremely powerful class features. Examples follow:

Incantatrix: At level 3 you get Metamagic Effect. Cast a personal or set range buff on yourself (touch range doesn't count), and make a Spellcraft check to make it Persistent. You can take ten on this check. You can get a custom magic item to grant an insane competence bonus to that skill. You could have taken Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) and invested all of your skill points from then on into it for an unnamed bonus equal to your ranks in that skill. Built right, you're always guaranteed to be able to persist the highest level spells you're capable of casting, for free. Add in the feat Extraordinary Spell Aim and use it with Anti-Magic Field so you're not affected, and make that Persistent.... Always take Item Familiar if you can, the 10% XP bonus alone is worth it.

Dweomerkeeper (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a): Keep in mind that a Cleric's alignment can be one step away from that of his deity. Also note that while the current Mystra is NG, the previous but now dead Mystra was LN. The current Mystra still recognizes worshipers of the old Mystra, so you can pick either one for your alignment to be within one step of. That means your options are CG, NG, NN, LG, LN, LE. You can use the feat Magical Training to qualify with a single-classed Cleric without losing any spellcasting levels. The Supernatural Spell ability it grants causes a spell to not have any somatic, verbal, or material components, spell focus or divine focus requirement, or XP costs. You can Miracle a +5 to each of your stats for no XP cost, True Resurrect without a costly material component, etc. With the feat Initiate of Mystra you can cast in an Anti-Magic Field or dead magic area unhindered. Google the Cheater of Mystra for more details, but I'd switch the level build to Cloistered Cleric 5/ Divine Oracle 4/ Dweomerkeeper 1/ Contemplative 1/ Dweomerkeeper 9. Don't forget you can use Anyspell and Greater Anyspell to cast spells from arcane lists, which you can DMM: Persist. You can even get a few Pearls of Power to recover your Anyspells and cast/persist yet more buffs which otherwise wouldn't be accessible to a Cleric.

Red Wizard: The good ol' DMG PrCs are easy to forget about. Use Simulacrums of yourself to do your circle magic with. If you're traveling around adventuring, carry them in a Portable Hole to keep them safe when you're not using them. Check this out (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9211672&postcount=4) for some ideas of what to do with your circle magic. I'd specialize in Conjuration, and get the Abrupt Jaunt ACF from PH2.

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil: This has already been mentioned, and for good reason. You can put up a prismatic effect barricade as an immediate action, which will automatically block an offensive action directed against you.

Tainted Scholar: Already mentioned as well, I should add that anything with the evil subtype is also completely immune to the negative effects of taint. Thanks to the Ritual of Alignment in Savage Species (page 148) everyone who wants an evil subtype can have one for the right price. You don't have to be undead, just pay a fee to an NPC Cleric who has the Evil domain and viola, you get all the Tainted Scholar cheese with none of the drawbacks. Also note that taint is detailed in Heroes of Horror and is completely compatible with every existing setting.

As you can see, any of the above would be leagues ahead of a dual progression caster in overall power. A single, good-enough list of spells and spectacular class features absolutely trumps delayed access to two spell lists and zero class features. The additional spells/day from dual progression ends up being useless considering how many spells you get to cast per round, how many spells it takes to defeat an encounter, and how many encounters you'll have before resting. The truly great spellcasters have no need for dual progression, as it only serves to hinder their acquisition of power.