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View Full Version : Help me make a non-Vancian arcane caster in a strict 3.5 world



Jolly
2010-08-25, 01:16 PM
So, I loathe the Vancian magic system. I know some people love it, and if it works for you that's fine. This is not an attack on the system, simply my preference. Let's not turn this into a debate about the merits of the Vancian system, ok?

My DM has been burned by alternate arcane systems before, so he's not very open to any type of mana/spell/focus point systems. He'd probably be ok with some small changes (dropping a familiar to get X bonus for example) but no major system overhauls. I know wizards are generally thought of as the more capable option in this system, but they aren't really an option for me. So I'm left with sorcerer and bard, and perhaps some type of PrC.

My group isn't super optimized, we have some newer people who aren't as well versed in the system. I don't need earth shattering, ultimate cosmic power, but I would like to avoid getting owned. I'm open to a blaster direct damage type, but I generally play rogues and enjoy thinking of innovative uses for skills and generally being clever to achieve my goals.

So any helpful suggestions, links to build threads, books with useful items/feats/PrC's, homebrewed versions of the above etc are all appreciated. Thanks. :)

Ranos
2010-08-25, 01:20 PM
I'm getting some mixed signals here. You want a non-vancian spellcasting system that's not an alternative to the vancian spellcasting system ?

Anyway, take a look at psionics. Don't let the name fool you, they're pretty much just mana-based mages, the kind you see everywhere but in d&d.

Greenish
2010-08-25, 01:23 PM
If you don't count sorcerers and bards as vancian casters (they sort of are), have you seen PHBII's beguiler?

dextercorvia
2010-08-25, 01:24 PM
So, I loathe the Vancian magic system. I know some people love it, and if it works for you that's fine. This is not an attack on the system, simply my preference. Let's not turn this into a debate about the merits of the Vancian system, ok?

My DM has been burned by alternate arcane systems before, so he's not very open to any type of mana/spell/focus point systems. He'd probably be ok with some small changes (dropping a familiar to get X bonus for example) but no major system overhauls. I know wizards are generally thought of as the more capable option in this system, but they aren't really an option for me. So I'm left with sorcerer and bard, and perhaps some type of PrC.

My group isn't super optimized, we have some newer people who aren't as well versed in the system. I don't need earth shattering, ultimate cosmic power, but I would like to avoid getting owned. I'm open to a blaster direct damage type, but I generally play rogues and enjoy thinking of innovative uses for skills and generally being clever to achieve my goals.

So any helpful suggestions, links to build threads, books with useful items/feats/PrC's, homebrewed versions of the above etc are all appreciated. Thanks. :)

UMD focused Warlock? Rather than spells per day, you have spells per WBL with EB and invocations for staying power.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-25, 01:24 PM
Warmages function great as pure blasters.

Silly Wizard
2010-08-25, 01:28 PM
Warlock is my choice for arcane-based magic without Vancian casting

Jolly
2010-08-25, 01:55 PM
I should clarify. When I say "non-Vancian" I mean "Does not prepare spells in advance" primarily.

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-25, 01:56 PM
You mean like a Sorcerer or Bard?

Greenish
2010-08-25, 01:58 PM
I should clarify. When I say "non-Vancian" I mean "Does not prepare spells in advance" primarily.Beguiler gets skillmonkey skill list, 6+int skillpoints per level, full int-based spontaneous casting, and knows all spells on it's rather extensive list. Sound good to you?

Kobold-Bard
2010-08-25, 02:14 PM
I should clarify. When I say "non-Vancian" I mean "Does not prepare spells in advance" primarily.

Sorcerer/Bard/Dread Necro/Warmage/Beguiler as already mentioned.

Psionics? Maybe the Erudite if you still want the educated Wizardy feel (because Erudites are awesome and everyone should use them).

Keld Denar
2010-08-25, 02:18 PM
Yea, they are still technically vancian, in that they have "slots". Non-vancian would be something like psionics or the spell-point varient in UA.

Yea, Beguiler would be good, even one a 1-20 scale. Sorcerer is great if you get your spells known fine tuned (we can help here), and you can PrC to taste. Bard/LyricThamaturge/Virtuoso/SublimeChord is also solid. At low levels, Inpsire Courage is good and easy to boost. At higher levels, you get magically polymorphed into a Sorcerer 1 level lower than you'd be if you went straight Sorcerer. Starts strong, finishes strong.

EDIT: Dragonfire Adepts (Dragon Magic) are awesome battlefield controllers, serving in similar, yet more limited, roles as arcane casters tend to. They blend damage with debuff on an at-will platform like Warlocks. Very fun.

Adumbration
2010-08-25, 02:30 PM
Tome of Magic has two non-Vancian magical classes worth mentioning. Binder gets a bundle of supernatural abilities that he can use at will, which he can change from day to day.

Shadowcaster is a more traditional caster, but may require a fix to be more powerful.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-25, 02:39 PM
If you're playing with a not-terribly optimized party, and you want blasty with a coupla tricks, just going sorc ain't bad. They can blast.

I suggest Io7V as a PrC if you're worried about dying.

Kobold-Bard
2010-08-25, 02:40 PM
Tome of Magic has two non-Vancian magical classes worth mentioning. Binder gets a bundle of supernatural abilities that he can use at will, which he can change from day to day.

Shadowcaster is a more traditional caster, but may require a fix to be more powerful.

How dare you forget the almighty TRUENAMER!!! (Or at least his cousin who wasn't dropped on his head as a baby: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120488)