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Thurbane
2010-08-25, 05:37 PM
Hi all,

Looking for full (or close to full) arcane casting progression PrCs with a good amount of skill points per level. I know of a couple with 4 (Loremaster etc.) but can anyone think of any with 6, or maybe even 8?

For base classes there is Beguiler & Bard, each with 6.

Cheers - T

kestrel404
2010-08-25, 06:09 PM
Unseen seer. It's got 6 and full casting, and entry is just skills (mostly CC for wizard, but lots IC for bard or beguiler).

Fax Celestis
2010-08-25, 06:11 PM
Lyric Thaumaturge is 6+Int, I think.

Greenish
2010-08-25, 06:12 PM
The urban something from Cityscape (man, I suck with names).

[Edit]: Urban Savant, 6+int, 9/10 casting and loses the last level which can be skipped.

Eldariel
2010-08-25, 06:17 PM
Lyric Thaumaturge is 6+Int, I think.

4+Int. One of the major reasons I find the whole class a bit poor compared to straight Bard/SC. Virtuoso is 6+Int tho, but loses casting on the first level.

JoshuaZ
2010-08-25, 06:19 PM
Hi all,

Looking for full (or close to full) arcane casting progression PrCs with a good amount of skill points per level. I know of a couple with 4 (Loremaster etc.) but can anyone think of any with 6, or maybe even 8?

For base classes there is Beguiler & Bard, each with 6.

Cheers - T

Keeper of the Cerulean Sign from Lords of Madness has full progression with 6 + int.

Andion Isurand
2010-08-25, 06:23 PM
If you use the Bardic Knack variant from PH2, the loremaster can outweigh other classes for effective skills.

Thurbane
2010-08-25, 06:26 PM
Great suggestions all.

I like Unseen Seer...I'd feel obliged to take a level of Rogue to take advantage of the Sneak Attack progression, though. Is there any relatively easy way to get Sneak Attack (say, for a Beguiler, or Sorcerer) without giving up caster levels? I'm not that familiar with ToB, but I believe there is a stance that gives 1d6 SA...would this stack with the US advancement?

Greenish
2010-08-25, 06:33 PM
Great suggestions all.

I like Unseen Seer...I'd feel obliged to take a level of Rogue to take advantage of the Sneak Attack progression, though. Is there any relatively easy way to get Sneak Attack (say, for a Beguiler, or Sorcerer) without giving up caster levels? I'm not that familiar with ToB, but I believe there is a stance that gives 1d6 SA...would this stack with the US advancement?Assassin's Stance is 2d6 SA, and should count for US.

Requires level 10 though.

DragoonWraith
2010-08-25, 06:36 PM
There is a 3rd level Stance to get +2d6 Sneak Attack. In order to take it, you need one other Shadow Hand maneuver (there's a 2nd level short-range Shadow Walk-like maneuver that might be worthwhile to a caster), and you need an Initiator Level of 5, which means if you have no Adept class levels, you need ECL 10. That'll delay your start into Unseen Seer quite badly, unless (I don't have it in front of me and can't check) you can take US levels, then get the feat to "turn on" the Sneak Attack.

I'm not sure 2 feats and waiting 5 levels is worth 1 spellcasting level.

Thurbane
2010-08-25, 06:38 PM
Maybe if I have to give up a caster level, take a level of Spellthief, then the Master Spellthief feat.

At the moment I'm leaning towards Spellthief 1/Beguiler 4/Unseen Seer X.

kestrel404
2010-08-25, 07:02 PM
Unless you can find a way to externally raise Spellthief's caster level (ioun stones, feats, etc.), the Master Spellthief feat will do you no good. Starting spellthief caster level is 0 until they get spells.

Greenish
2010-08-25, 07:04 PM
Unless you can find a way to externally raise Spellthief's caster level (ioun stones, feats, etc.), the Master Spellthief feat will do you no good. Starting spellthief caster level is 0 until they get spells.Well, "no good" isn't really what I'd say. Master Spellthief allows you to ignore light armour's ASF, and sets your CL to your level in arcane casting classes, which bypasses US's penalty on non-divination spell CL.

PId6
2010-08-25, 07:45 PM
Rogue 1/Arcane 4/Unseen Seer 10/Anything 5 is a pretty good build. Unseen Seer is one of my favorite PrCs, and it's quite powerful if used correctly. Human with Able Learner is the best race entry, and Practiced Spellcaster deals with the lost rogue CL as well as the lost CL from Divination Spell Power. Make sure to pick up Hunter's Eye (PHB2) as an Advanced Learning spell.

gallagher
2010-08-25, 09:14 PM
Maybe if I have to give up a caster level, take a level of Spellthief, then the Master Spellthief feat.

At the moment I'm leaning towards Spellthief 1/Beguiler 4/Unseen Seer X.
switch beguiler for sorceror. take advantage of a better spell list and have at least 14 INT for your skills. it also will help if you take levels of spellwarp sniper so you can deal sneak attack with touch spells

Keld Denar
2010-08-26, 01:22 AM
Isn't Ruather 6 skillpoints/level on top of being full casting, 2/3 BAB, full casting, 2 good saves, free proficiences (go go AbjChamp) and a bunch of garbage about dancing around with fairies?

Frosty
2010-08-26, 01:25 AM
I thought it's 4 points per level? I am away from books right now though...

Adumbration
2010-08-26, 01:30 AM
I thought it's 4 points per level? I am away from books right now though...

Jeah, just checked it. 4+int modifier.

olentu
2010-08-26, 01:34 AM
Well, "no good" isn't really what I'd say. Master Spellthief allows you to ignore light armour's ASF, and sets your CL to your level in arcane casting classes, which bypasses US's penalty on non-divination spell CL.

I believe it just stacks with arcane casting classes for caster level. If this is so then as stacked is not set it does not do such a thing.

Greenish
2010-08-26, 08:21 AM
I believe it just stacks with arcane casting classes for caster level. If this is so then as stacked is not set it does not do such a thing."Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells."

You use your arcane caster levels to determine your caster level, instead of your normal caster level, so neatly avoiding the penalty from US. It works, and isn't much different from using Practiced Spellcaster.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-26, 08:35 AM
The urban something from Cityscape (man, I suck with names).

[Edit]: Urban Savant, 6+int, 9/10 casting and loses the last level which can be skipped.

This one. It's actually slightly better than it appears, as it gives you bonuses to a few skills. It's one of the better ways to become a highly skilled arcanist.

ErrantX
2010-08-26, 09:35 AM
Maybe if I have to give up a caster level, take a level of Spellthief, then the Master Spellthief feat.

At the moment I'm leaning towards Spellthief 1/Beguiler 4/Unseen Seer X.

Good choice. Master Spellthief combined with these classes is pretty much king. Consider Arcane Trickster at top tier for continued skill, spell, and sneak attack progression.


switch beguiler for sorceror. take advantage of a better spell list and have at least 14 INT for your skills. it also will help if you take levels of spellwarp sniper so you can deal sneak attack with touch spells

Eh... that's not necessarily always the case for being a better choice. It depends mostly on what you're trying to accomplish. Sorcerer is best for being a bit more utilitarian and choosing the best possible spells for your specific design, but you're a bit more MAD and you have the problem of cross class skills in sorcerer. Beguiler gets all the skills you need in in class, as well as having Int based casting which is going to net you a ton more skill points anyway, plus trapfinding (neatly filling a role as party trapfinder and skill monkey) and a few other useful low level class features. With Unseen Seer, I often am torn between Wizard or Beguiler.

-X

Keld Denar
2010-08-26, 04:47 PM
Wizard or Beguiler

The only issue with this is that the Arcane Rogue archtype generally flourishes on using RTA spells to apply Sneak Attack. Beguiler gets no RTAs, and only a could of touches. They also lack a lot of the good Gishy buffs (other than Illusions like Greater Mirror ImagE) that keep your behind safe while trying to use melee as a method of delivering your SA. Sorcerer or Wizard would give you access to the amazing Cloud of Knives spell for 1 ranged sneak per round for free for the rest of the fight. It also has all of those nice Orb spells and Lesser Orb spells that are delicious for delivering SA hell, and the Whirling Blade spell so you can deliver SA to each foe in a line.

Lots of good stuff there that Beguiler's just don't get. Plus, with Wizard as a base, you should have a GREAT Int score, so you should be able, with Able Learner, to keep up nearly all of the skills you really need to.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-26, 04:58 PM
I prefer Sorc 6/Spellthief 1/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Unseen Seer 8 myself.

Thurbane
2010-08-26, 05:16 PM
If you are a Beguiler with Sneak Attack, you could always UMD a Wand of Acid Splash and use it out to 30-ft, although that precludes flanking.

Frosty
2010-08-26, 05:39 PM
Eccletic Learning? Or Advanced Learning for Ray of Stupidity? That'll get you a ranged touch attack.

olentu
2010-08-26, 07:45 PM
"Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells."

You use your arcane caster levels to determine your caster level, instead of your normal caster level, so neatly avoiding the penalty from US. It works, and isn't much different from using Practiced Spellcaster.

Er no that just means that your spellthief and arcane caster levels stack. There is no setting involved any more then there would be setting when you you use your insert applicable caster levels here to determine your caster level.

Edit: Or perhaps that is what you mean and your argument is that it is impossible to ever apply a penalty to caster level. I do not believe that is what you mean but it does seem to be what you are saying. So clearly in some way I am misunderstanding just what your argument actually is.

Greenish
2010-08-26, 07:53 PM
Er no that just means that your spellthief and arcane caster levels stack. There is no setting involved any more then there would be setting when you you use your insert applicable caster levels here to determine your caster level.

Edit: Or perhaps that is what you mean and your argument is that it is impossible to ever apply a penalty to caster level. I do not believe that is what you mean but it does seem to be what you are saying. So clearly in some way I am misunderstanding just what your argument actually is.My argument is that with Master Spellthief, you use your arcane caster level + your spellthief level as your caster level for all arcane spells you cast. US applies -3 penalty to your CL for non-divination spells, but you get to apply such things in the order that's most beneficial to you, so you take the -3 penalty to your normal CL, then use your arcane caster level as your CL.

[Edit]: So in the end, you achieve about the same as rogue/caster/US does with Practiced Spellcaster, though you get less skillpoints but can ignore ASF in light armour.

Keld Denar
2010-08-26, 07:53 PM
You generally apply things in the order that is most advantageous. In this case, when adding up your CL for a ST1/Wizard4/USS10, you would:

Add up your spellcasting levels: 14
this is your normal CL.
Apply -3 penalty for USS: 11
Apply Master Spelltheif: CL = 1 +4 +10 = 15

And when you figure out your Divination CL, you do this:
Add up your spellcasting levels: 14
this is your normal CL.
Apply Master Spelltheif: 1 +4 +10 = 15
Apply +3 for USS: 15 +3 = 18

Make sense?

olentu
2010-08-26, 08:10 PM
No that makes no sense since that is again setting not stacking. Anything done with the combined levels must have just as easily been able to be done by just the levels in the class so unless you are saying that all casters can choose to calculate caster level like this.

-all penalties
caster level is set to the number of levels in the class (or the stacked class levels + spellthief)
+all bonuses

Making it impossible for a caster level to ever be reduced except voluntarily then I must say that your argument seems inconsistent to me.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-26, 08:39 PM
No that makes no sense since that is again setting not stacking. Anything done with the combined levels must have just as easily been able to be done by just the levels in the class so unless you are saying that all casters can choose to calculate caster level like this.

-all penalties
caster level is set to the number of levels in the class (or the stacked class levels + spellthief)
+all bonuses

Making it impossible for a caster level to ever be reduced except voluntarily then I must say that your argument seems inconsistent to me.


Benefit: Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes (that is, levels of any class that grants arcane spellcasting other than the spellthief) for the purpose of determining what level of spell you can steal. For example, a 4th-level spellthief/4th-level wizard could steal spells of up to 4th level, as if he were an 8th-level spellthief.

Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells. The character described above would have a caster level of 8th for both his spellthief spells and his wizard spells.

In addition, you do not incur a chance of arcane spell failure for arcane spells cast or stolen from other classes, but only if you are wearing light armor. You incur the normal arcane spell failure chance when wearing medium or heavy armor or when using a shield.

Translation:Your caster level = your class levels in classes that have arcane spellcasting plus your spellthief level.

From the FAQ:

When do “add-on” effects such as poison occur? For example, if an assassin delivers a death attack with a weapon bearing wyvern poison, does the poison take effect first, thus potentially reducing the target’s Fortitude save against the death attack?

As a general guideline, whenever the rules don’t stipulate an order of operations for special effects (such as spells or special abilities), you should apply them in the order that’s most beneficial to the “controller” of the effect.

In this case, the assassin is the “controller” of both the poison and the death attack, so he’d most likely choose for the poison to take effect first, and then the death attack.

Therefore, order of operations:
1. Apply -3 caster level penalty for non-divinations.
2. Set caster level = spellthief levels + arcane spellcaster levels.
3. Apply +3 caster level bonus for divinations.

Thurbane
2010-08-26, 08:40 PM
I think that sums it up pretty well. Thanks Fax.

Greenish
2010-08-26, 09:24 PM
Anything done with the combined levels must have just as easily been able to be done by just the levels in the class so unless you are saying that all casters can choose to calculate caster level like this.Why? Not all casters have Master Spellthief.

Making it impossible for a caster level to ever be reduced except voluntarily then I must say that your argument seems inconsistent to me.Inconsistent with what?

Thurbane
2010-08-26, 09:51 PM
Tangent here: aside from high INT and being human, what are easy ways to get skill points?

Nymph's Kiss - 1/level, but requires you to adhere to Exalted standards.
Open Minded get 5 skill points, but not sure if it's worth a feat.
Able Learner is great, provided you are a human (or doppelganger).
Jack of All Trades is nice if you don't want to have to put a point into every "trained only" skill.

...others I've missed?

olentu
2010-08-27, 12:14 AM
Translation:Your caster level = your class levels in classes that have arcane spellcasting plus your spellthief level.

From the FAQ:


Therefore, order of operations:
1. Apply -3 caster level penalty for non-divinations.
2. Set caster level = spellthief levels + arcane spellcaster levels.
3. Apply +3 caster level bonus for divinations.



Why? Not all casters have Master Spellthief.
Inconsistent with what?

The problem is that there is no reason to bother having master spellthief as it would work just the same with any class. The stacking of levels is no more a setting then having levels in a class. So the inconsistency is in that you are giving special benefit to the feat above and beyond just the regular original setting of caster level for no reason at all.

Really I am fine with all spellcasters and in fact any other statistic counting the case as a setting that can be applied to bypass all reductions but I do have a problem with allowing only some to work without a good reason.

Edit: Also please don't bring the FAQ into this. I can not accept anything it says that is not in the book and I have already made the completely not in the rules (or atleast never shown to me so far as I can recall) concession for the sake of the argument continuing that the order can be based one whatever rather then saying that the whole argument is totally not the rules but is rather fiat. I am ignoring the fact that we are all in fiat land just for the sake of the discussion but if I have to argue against the FAQ then I will have to argue that it is fiat and that makes all of our arguments (including mine) completely wrong.

Renchard
2010-08-27, 08:29 AM
Edit: Also please don't bring the FAQ into this. I can not accept anything it says that is not in the book and I have already made the completely not in the rules (or atleast never shown to me so far as I can recall) concession for the sake of the argument continuing that the order can be based one whatever rather then saying that the whole argument is totally not the rules but is rather fiat. I am ignoring the fact that we are all in fiat land just for the sake of the discussion but if I have to argue against the FAQ then I will have to argue that it is fiat and that makes all of our arguments (including mine) completely wrong.

I don't think anyone is making you argue with the FAQ, you're free to run Master Spellthief and Unseen Seer in any way you wish.

On the other hand, the "advantageous stacking" ruling is the conventional wisdom here and on most boards where CO is discussed, so you might as well get used to it.

On the third hand(Alienist PrC for the win!), I agree with you it's a dumb rule and don't run it that way in my games. Penalties should be penalties.

Greenish
2010-08-27, 08:37 AM
Tangent here: aside from high INT and being human, what are easy ways to get skill points?Substitution levels. Especially the changeling ones tend to increase your skillpoints. (Changeling rogue 1 sub level, 10+int skillpoints x4 :smallcool:)

Really I am fine with all spellcasters and in fact any other statistic counting the case as a setting that can be applied to bypass all reductions but I do have a problem with allowing only some to work without a good reason.The good reason is the feat allowing you to use your arcane spellcaster level as your caster level. The two concepts are separate.

On the third hand(Alienist PrC for the win!), I agree with you it's a dumb rule and don't run it that way in my games. Penalties should be penalties.Don't you allow Practiced Spellcaster either? Or do you rule that bonuses and penalties are applied in the worst possible order for the character? Or at random?

Renchard
2010-08-27, 10:19 AM
Don't you allow Practiced Spellcaster either? Or do you rule that bonuses and penalties are applied in the worst possible order for the character? Or at random?

I allow Practiced Spellcaster. In general, I apply level-corrective bonuses first (those that are trying to correct penalties imposed by the 3.5 multiclassing system), then apply more specific bonuses and penalties after.

Specific bonuses and penalties include the Wild Mage (d6-3) caster level adjustment and the Unseen Seer divination bonus/all other schools penalty.

olentu
2010-08-28, 10:10 AM
The good reason is the feat allowing you to use your arcane spellcaster level as your caster level. The two concepts are separate.

I see no difference between your levels in a class stacked with your levels in spellthief versus your levels in the class in terms of being setting. Either both set your caster level or neither do since the feat does not say that it sets and there for the only setting if any must be one inherited from the regular class levels.

Greenish
2010-08-28, 10:20 AM
I see no difference between your levels in a class stacked with your levels in spellthief versus your levels in the class in terms of being setting. Either both set your caster level or neither do since the feat does not say that it sets and there for the only setting if any must be one inherited from the regular class levels.You see, often levels in classes advance one's caster level, but not always. Caster level is quite different, and separate from spellcaster level. However, the feat allows you to use the latter in place of the former. Most notable, if you enter a PrC that doesn't offer caster level advancement in each level, someone with Master Spellthief would still increase it's CL (though not for new spell levels or more daily spells).

Let me repeat this once more:

Normal: Caster level ≠ arcane spellcaster level
With Master Spellthief: Caster level = arcane spellcaster level (+ levels in spellthief)

olentu
2010-08-28, 10:53 AM
You see, often levels in classes advance one's caster level, but not always. Caster level is quite different, and separate from spellcaster level. However, the feat allows you to use the latter in place of the former. Most notable, if you enter a PrC that doesn't offer caster level advancement in each level, someone with Master Spellthief would still increase it's CL (though not for new spell levels or more daily spells).

Let me repeat this once more:

Normal: Caster level ≠ arcane spellcaster level
With Master Spellthief: Caster level = arcane spellcaster level (+ levels in spellthief)


And yet as I said nothing in the feat says it is a setting and thus any setting must come from the regular class levels. Really you are adding in a setting that is not there. Though I suppose perhaps you have some general rule about how class levels stack that you have not bothered to produce. If that is the case you could bring that one into the discussion and clear things up.

Edit: Also prestige classes are not arcane spellcaster level unless they are something like sublime chord.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-28, 11:42 AM
Also prestige classes are not arcane spellcaster level unless they are something like sublime chord.

A class that advances arcane spellcasting isn't an arcane spellcasting class? That makes no sense.

Once again I will directly quote the feat:

Benefit: Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes (that is, levels of any class that grants arcane spellcasting other than the spellthief) for the purpose of determining what level of spell you can steal. For example, a 4th-level spellthief/4th-level wizard could steal spells of up to 4th level, as if he were an 8th-level spellthief.

Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells. The character described above would have a caster level of 8th for both his spellthief spells and his wizard spells.

In addition, you do not incur a chance of arcane spell failure for arcane spells cast or stolen from other classes, but only if you are wearing light armor. You incur the normal arcane spell failure chance when wearing medium or heavy armor or when using a shield.

Translation: "substitute your wizard level + your spellthief level + advancement PrCs level for your CL."

Note how the two underlined statements are not the same thing.

A hexblade, for instance, only has a Caster Level equal to half his hexblade level. However, every level in the hexblade class is an arcane spellcaster level because the class is one that provides arcane spellcasting. If a spellthief 1/hexblade 5 were to take the master spellthief feat, his caster level for both spellthief and hexblade would be 6.

Douglas
2010-08-28, 12:25 PM
The sticking point here is that Master Spellthief stipulates stacking and absolutely nothing else. Hexblade levels count half? Master Spellthief says nothing about altering that, so Hexblade levels still count half.


A class that advances arcane spellcasting isn't an arcane spellcasting class? That makes no sense.
The generally accepted definition of "spellcasting class" is a class that grants its own spellcasting ability rather than advancing another class's progression. This is to prevent things like using Loremaster and Archmage to advance Mystic Theurge - or Mystic Theurge to advance Psychic Theurge and Ultimate Magus, and using those in turn to advance Cerebremancer and Eldritch Disciple and...


A hexblade, for instance, only has a Caster Level equal to half his hexblade level. However, every level in the hexblade class is an arcane spellcaster level because the class is one that provides arcane spellcasting. If a spellthief 1/hexblade 5 were to take the master spellthief feat, his caster level for both spellthief and hexblade would be 6.
By the text of the feat, the spellthief and hexblade levels stack "when determining caster level". How do you determine caster level? Well, for Spellthief it's caster level = Spellthief level. Master Spellthief makes the Hexblade levels stack, so Spellthief caster level changes to Spelthief level + Hexblade level = 6. For Hexblade, caster level is determined by the equation CL = Hexblade level / 2. Master Spellthief replaces "Hexblade level" with "Hexblade level + Spellthief level", resulting in Hexblade caster level = (1+5) / 2 = 3.

imperialspectre
2010-08-28, 12:28 PM
By the way, Loredelver from Races of Destiny gives 6 skills per level and 9/10 casting progression.

Thurbane
2010-08-28, 09:20 PM
By the way, Loredelver from Races of Destiny gives 6 skills per level and 9/10 casting progression.
Another good pickup, thanks! :smallsmile:

Fax Celestis
2010-08-28, 09:30 PM
By the text of the feat, the spellthief and hexblade levels stack "when determining caster level". How do you determine caster level? Well, for Spellthief it's caster level = Spellthief level. Master Spellthief makes the Hexblade levels stack, so Spellthief caster level changes to Spelthief level + Hexblade level = 6. For Hexblade, caster level is determined by the equation CL = Hexblade level / 2. Master Spellthief replaces "Hexblade level" with "Hexblade level + Spellthief level", resulting in Hexblade caster level = (1+5) / 2 = 3.

Except that the example given in the feat doesn't follow this example. Spellthief's natural caster level is equal to half its levels (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a), yet the example the feat gives of a spellthief 4/wizard 4 comes up with a caster level of 8. Arcane spellcaster level and caster level are two disparate--albeit easily confusable--concepts.

true_shinken
2010-08-28, 09:37 PM
Except that the example given in the feat doesn't follow this example. Spellthief's natural caster level is equal to half its levels (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a), yet the example the feat gives of a spellthief 4/wizard 4 comes up with a caster level of 8. Arcane spellcaster level and caster level are two disparate--albeit easily confusable--concepts.

I must say I completely agree with Fax. I'm quite fond of the Master Spellthief feat and I never saw such a heated discussion trying to nerf it!

Andion Isurand
2010-08-28, 09:40 PM
The Harper Agent (PGtF 58) has 6 + int and 4/5 spell progression.

olentu
2010-09-05, 02:28 AM
My my real life can become quite a distraction but then again it looks like things have not moved much in my absence so there is no problem there.

Well then allow me to respond.


A class that advances arcane spellcasting isn't an arcane spellcasting class? That makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense to me since the prestige class does not make one an arcane spellcaster unless it is one of those that has a separate progression. Though really the term is not well defined and at most one can say that exactly 4 levels of wizard counts. Anything more is merely a house rule of which I am as guilty as anyone of making.


Once again I will directly quote the feat:


Translation: "substitute your wizard level + your spellthief level + advancement PrCs level for your CL."

And I could just as easily say Translation: "Something that supports my point and not yours." That translation would not be any more fact then yours without some backup and without said backup both would be completely wrong.


Note how the two underlined statements are not the same thing.

A hexblade, for instance, only has a Caster Level equal to half his hexblade level. However, every level in the hexblade class is an arcane spellcaster level because the class is one that provides arcane spellcasting. If a spellthief 1/hexblade 5 were to take the master spellthief feat, his caster level for both spellthief and hexblade would be 6.

Or alternatively it would be 3.5 rounded to 3 or even something else. I can make up interpretations that would give several answers. Actually thinking about it I can see one that I would find the most not illegal but I am just going to ignore that one since I am not currently arguing that it is less wrong but rather that your interpretation is not any more correct then several of the other various other competing theories.


Except that the example given in the feat doesn't follow this example. Spellthief's natural caster level is equal to half its levels (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a), yet the example the feat gives of a spellthief 4/wizard 4 comes up with a caster level of 8. Arcane spellcaster level and caster level are two disparate--albeit easily confusable--concepts.

Well let us say that the feat is actually saying that one adds the two classes levels together and then computes caster level as if one had say wizard, from the example, levels equal to the sum. That would keep CL 8 but also make it give half for half casters. So I see no contradiction from the example while still not working the way you say.




Perhaps most importantly the thing is that I have still not at all seen anything saying that it should be a setting any more then regular class levels.