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View Full Version : 3.5 need to buff my will save OR the meatshield conundrum



bobspldbckwrds
2010-08-26, 12:17 AM
so, i am playing a melee character that has been doing some judicious cross classing ftr3/human paragon3/spirit lion barbarion1/horizon walker 1

now as you can see, the only time i stand much of a chance of making my will save is when i roll a nat 20 (which has actually happened twice)

so here is my question, how can i boost my will save?

iron will is a bit lacking, and i am kinda married to horizon walker for the time being for character reasons.

Sucrose
2010-08-26, 12:22 AM
Well, if you're okay with spending skill points on Concentration, and have either a level dip or feat handy, you can make use of the Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver from Tome of Battle, which replaces your Will save with a Concentration check. However, unless it's a dip, this'll only work once per combat.

Other than that:

Mad Foam Rager from PHB II will allow you, once per Rage, to ignore an effect for one round while raging, which will often be enough for you to either mitigate the effects or make them negligible in the case of failed Will saves.

There's also some special location from some obscure book that grants you Iron Will for free.

Periapt of Wisdom will let you improve your Wisdom score, and your Will save along with it.

DownwardSpiral
2010-08-26, 12:26 AM
There's also that neato feat that allows you to add your con mod to your will save for certain effects, instead of wisdom. I don't know how much higher your con is than your will, so YMMV.

W3bDragon
2010-08-26, 12:34 AM
Combat Focus feat from PHB2 gives you +2 to will saves once you land a successful hit in an encounter. Couple that with Iron Will, and that's +4.

If you already happen to have the Endurance feat from somewhere, its a prereq for Steadfast Determination from PHB2, which uses con modifier instead of wis for will saves. Even if you don't have Endurance, those two feats combined might still be better than the earlier ones if the difference between your wis and con are big enough.

However, magical means are usually less costly. Spells like Conviction, Owl's Wisdom or even a +wis item.

Frosty
2010-08-26, 01:52 AM
If you're willing to spend even more feats, also take Iron Will after you have Steadfast Determination. You get to roll twice and take the better of two results.

Saph
2010-08-26, 01:55 AM
Taking a level of Warblade (from Tome of Battle) so that you can max out your Concentration and pick up Moment of Perfect Mind is probably the most effective solution. As a bonus, you get two other useful maneuvers as well.

Alternatively, load up on items - the best Resistance item you can get along with a Crystal of Mind Cloaking from the Magic Item Compendium.

Vangor
2010-08-26, 02:28 AM
so, i am playing a melee character that has been doing some judicious cross classing ftr3/human paragon3/spirit lion barbarion1/horizon walker 1

Can I ask, why fighter 3? Replace this third level with a level of Warblade, take Moment of Perfect Mind, and designate concentration as an adaptive skill via Human Paragon. With 11 ranks and con bonus (call this a 13 total), you have an immediate action which does not automatically fail on a nat 1, plus you can replace this with a swift action. Take Sudden Leap and Blood in the Water (Stance) from Tiger Claw.

Caewil
2010-08-26, 09:22 AM
Fighter 3 is... Ergh. There's no reason to take more than 2 unless going for a very specialized build. But taking a dead level on purpose?

Aldizog
2010-08-26, 09:55 AM
Fighter 3 is... Ergh. There's no reason to take more than 2 unless going for a very specialized build. But taking a dead level on purpose?
Hey now. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html) Anyway, going to Ftr3 does give that +1 Will that taking, say, Brb2 wouldn't give. Just in case that's what the OP was looking for. Or perhaps it was an organic build that just kind of developed along the way.

Human Paragon gives Will as a good save, so the OP should be at a base of +1 from Fighter and +3 from Paragon, so a base Will save of +4 for an 8th-level character. That's actually pretty fair as a base save -- normal Ftr8 has +2 and Wiz8 has +6. If he's only succeeding on 20s, then he's routinely facing at least DC 24 saves at 8th level (and that's assuming NO other plusses from abilities, feats, or items), which suggests a high-powered game.

By the book, CR8 monsters from MM1 tend to have DCs around DC 18 or so. Erinyes charm or unholy blight? DC 19. Young Adult White Dragon fear aura? DC 17. Assuming a modest +4 (Iron Will, 12 Wis, and a +1 cloak), the PC is resisting the devil's charm 50% of the time.

Greenish
2010-08-26, 10:08 AM
Hey now. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html) Anyway, going to Ftr3 does give that +1 Will that taking, say, Brb2 wouldn't give.Fractional saves are fighting man's best friend.

dextercorvia
2010-08-26, 11:03 AM
Cloak of resistance +3 is 9K(Or add it to an item you already have as per MIC 234). Later on, you can buy a level 6 pearl of power for 36K, and let the caster in your party hit you with a copy of their Superior Resistance for a +6

Fax Celestis
2010-08-26, 11:12 AM
Get a vest of mental resistance. It's exactly like a vest of resistance but only provides to your Will save, and costs 1/3 of the original's price. You can see that they provided something like this in MIC with the Stamina and Agility armor enhancements, which are 500 GP, or ((bonus squared*1000)/3)*1.5 for wrong slot.

A vest of mental resistance +3, then, would cost ((3*3*1000)/3) or 3000gp (supported by MIC's wrong slot price of 4500) and provides a +3 resistance bonus to Will saves. A vest of mental resistance +5 would give a +5 resistance bonus to Will saves for 8333gp (supported by MIC's wrong slot price of 12500).

Telonius
2010-08-26, 11:21 AM
Something as simple as a potion of Protection from Evil would offer partial protection. Many (but not all) of the nastiest spells that require Will Saves are blocked by the spell.