View Full Version : [3.p] Is there anyway to make a greenstar adept decent/good

2010-08-26, 01:48 AM
Exactly the title. I don't know why but I got it into my head to attempt to make a working character with the green star adept class.

And I can't. I simply can not find a way to play this class so it is useful.

Keld Denar
2010-08-26, 01:56 AM
Check out Iron Optimization Challenge VII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633), I think that one was GSA. There were some ok builds in it, but most of the good stuff from GSA you can get from being Warforged or Necropolitan.

My build was AeshKrau Illumian Duskblade2/Paladin4/SuelArcanamach1/AbjChamp5/GreenstarAdept8. With a little shananiganery between how you apply AbjChamp's Martial Caster ability versus how you apply GSA's CL increase, you can end up with a Suel Caster Level slightly higher than your ECL, which when you tack on Suel's Tenacious Casting, makes your Suel buffs REALLY hard to dispel.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-26, 10:38 AM
My build was to not enter. In my estimation, it is too hard to make work to be worth salvaging.

2010-08-26, 10:48 AM
Write "Warforged" as your race, and "forget" your racial immunities until you get the appropriate level in Wizard, and you'd have about the same effect...

2010-08-26, 10:59 AM
If you use the reading that gives +15 CL over 10 class levels, it becomes salvageable.

2010-08-26, 11:01 AM
Well, you could play it in a party of Truenamers and CW Samurai.

2010-08-26, 12:58 PM
The GSA is embarassing for anyone who says "thou shalt not lose ye olde casterlevels". You're presented with a full CL-increasing class and it still sucks. Hierophant is similar.

2010-08-26, 01:24 PM
well, if you combine it with true munchkinism, there is a way to salvage it somewhat

1rst , you gain a slam attack
2nd you gain STR and natural armor, you lose some DEX
finally, you gain immunity to Fort Save effects, gain 30 hitpoints, lose bonus HD and you gain DR

best way I can see to use it

use the necropolitan template

you get d12 hitpoints , you now ignore Con all game (instead of at level 15), the immunity to Fort saves makes you quite tough all of a sudden (with the DR and the extra hitpoints too, which is one of the rare ways you can get some as an undead)

for extra cheese, have a Dread necromancer do the ritual to gain STR +4 and DEX +4 (negating whatever you'd lose from Green Star adept)

thats a +10 in STR with some spellcasting

Since you're a type of gish, your original class should be gishlike (battle sorcerer, duskblade, bard)

I recommend this progression

1 Paladin exotic weapon proficiency: spiked chain (a two-handed weapon is greatly recommended with your high STR and you can't use a shield anyway, the chain is simply the best one available )
2 Paladin (you just fixed your Fort saves until you gain immunity at level 20)
3 Battle Sorcerer Combat casting (requirement)
4 Battle Sorcerer
5 Battle Sorcerer
6 Green Star Adept Armored Caster (you want to use a mithral fullplate)
7 Green Star Adept gain slam attack (BAB now qualifies for Abjurant Champion)
8 Abjurant Champion
9 Abjurant Champion depends on your build
10 Abjurant Champion
11 Abjurant Champion
12 Abjurant Champion depends on your build
13 Green Star Adept
14 Green Star Adept
15 Green Star Adept depends on your build
16 Green Star Adept
17 Green Star Adept
18 Green Star Adept depends on your build
19 Green Star Adept
20 Green Star Adept

you cast level 6 spells maximum (so you get most of the best buffs) and your caster level is 18 (you can always take practiced spellcaster but it's not really worth it)

you have 16 BAB

you want to use luminous armor spell (from BoED) since mage armor doesn't work with the abjurant champion bonus

wood elves are not a bad choice of race (you ignore Con anyway, the bonus DEX compensates for the DEX hit from Green Star Adept)

you can enlarge yourself so you don't need to be a large race, although you'd gain more hitpoints that way (30 instead of 20) and reach

a duskblade would get a slightly higher BAB (and save yourself some feats) but your Saves would be significantly lower and your spells not nearly as powerful (unless you take a level in sublime Chord at some point but that would entail not taking 10 levels of Green Star adept or losing abjurant champion levels)

2010-08-26, 01:26 PM
beholder mage. An immortal green beholder with DR, construct immunities and a slam attack in case it matters.

Keld Denar
2010-08-26, 01:57 PM
(battle sorcerer)

You did well up until this point. Battle Sorcerer is seldom a good option in a gish build because the advantages (BAB, HP) go away when you PrC into something like AbjChamp, but the penalties (fewer spells known/per day) persist through the entire build. You'd be better off with a traditional Sorcadin start of Pal2/Sorc4/Spellsword1/AbjChamp5. Even then, GSA is a weak option because you'll lose too many caster levels.

That was the glory of my build using Suel Arcanamach. Suel casting only has 10 levels, and you have 13 levels to get the last 9. That means you can have 4 dead levels (8/10 GSA) and still progress fully.

Illumian is also one of the better races for GSA. If you aren't casting any spells with saves, Illumian switches your caster stat over to Strength, which GSA gives you more of. That makes you dependant on fewer attributes and more streamlined/synergistic.

2010-08-26, 02:11 PM
Most people agree that green star adept is a -2 tier prc.

Take a wizard entry then take green star and you have a tier 3 class.

Tier 3 classes are considered balanced and decent so my job is done :smallbiggrin:

2010-08-27, 12:46 AM
Yours is probably a bit stronger Keld, but I like this one: CE Human Dread Necromancer 8/Green Star Adept 8/Flesh Grafter 4

It seems like something that can be a lot of fun to do. Poison myself up, wade into combat slamming and doing Mass ISW.

2010-08-27, 12:53 AM
I can make a playable build with GSA...but it's not good because of the GSA. There just really is no outstanding part about GSA that is worthwhile...If you want immunities, undead or construct are the main paths, but they're both vastly more accessible in other ways.

2010-08-27, 01:51 AM
People like to knee-jerk hate on GSA. They need to see Keld's build from the Iron Chef tournament. For some reason, he got a lot of judgements of "would be better without GSA" despite the things the build accomplishes by virtue of being a GSA. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8888402&postcount=146)'s the individual post. And here's some yummy bits of it:

Also, given the way caster levels stack, the character’s buffs will be virtually undispellable. When Abjurant Champion’s Martial Arcanist ability kicks in at ECL14, the Suel’s caster level will be set equal to his BAB. At that point, only 2 points of BAB will be missing, so his CL will be 12 (which Illumian Krau sigil raises to 14, equal to ECL). Then we apply GSA’s +1 CL from 1st level for a CL of 15 at ECL14m and THEN we apply Suel’s Tenacious Spells ability for a +6 bonus to CL to resist dispels. At ECL14, the Suel caster will have a CL of 21 to resist dispels, a DC 32 CL check for enemy dispellers. This is WAY out of the reach of a simple Dispel Magic, and even a like leveled enemy caster would need an 18+ on a d20 roll to dispel your buffs. Tack on a Ring of Enduring Arcana for another +4 CL vs dispels and an ECL16 mage with GDM will only get you on a natural 20, assuming no other CL bumps for the dispeller.

That seems like a great thing to have if you play in a group with codzillas and such and the DM opens most fights with multiple Dispel Magics. But this was also a nice touch:

ECL11, you gain your Slam attack, just in time to learn Greater Mighty Wallop. This is the first MAJOR power break. Cast GMWallop on your bludgeoning 2hander and on your slam. You’ll only have the CL atm to boost by 1 size, but that’s still a nice boost. Your greatclub will be bumped to 3d8, and your slam will be 2d6 when Enlarged. [...] It should also be noted that the slam gains 1.5x your Str bonus, like a 2handed weapon. It won’t get 2:1 PA, but this is still an impressive feature considering how focused on improving your Str you will be.
ECL16, your offense increases. You gain Bite of the Wereboar, adding another Bludgeoning type natural weapon to your arsenal. Your CL is also be high enough to gain another bump from GMWallop, making your Greatclub move up to 8d8, your slam up to 6d6, and your bite up to 8d6.

ECL18, your touch AC is now WAY too high. A casting of Scintillating Scales turns the 8 NA from Bite of the Wereboar and the 4 NA from GSA into 12 points of Deflection bonus. This, plus the 9 points from the Shield spell gives you a touch AC of 31 at the least. Also, GMWallop caps at this point, thanks to your GSA level bumps and you pick up INA for your Slam. Greatclub is now 12d8, slam is 12d6, and bite is 12d6.

Didn't know you had such a fan, did you, Keld?

This is a fantastic and capable build, easily on par with any non-cheesy ToB build. That's a good enough benchmark for me.

Keld Denar
2010-08-27, 02:16 AM
I have a fan? I HAVE A FAN!!!! WOOOOOO!!!!! <3