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View Full Version : [oWoD M:tA] getting rich



JeenLeen
2010-08-26, 11:00 AM
I'm in an old World of Darkness Mage: The Ascension v2 game, and trying to get rich quick without attracting Technocratic attention.

In game terms, I'm trying to get from Influence 2 to 3. (He is using a houseruled version, where Influence is basically Resources + Contacts. At Influence 1 or2 I have to keep track of cash, but at Resources 3 I start getting a monthly income and have connections to easily buy illegal stuff like C-4, grenades, and illegal guns. I think I need about a million dollars, maybe two million, to get set up.)

My character is a Virtual Adept hacker (Computers 4; Enigmas 4) with some criminal contacts, but not many. Availiable Spheres are Correspondence 3, Matter 2, Life 2, Spirit 2, Prime 1. He also has a mentor who is a master of Correspondence and good at some other Spheres. I can probably get Entropy 2 luck and Time-scrys as needed from my cabal, but little else.

I've talked to the DM and he said, because the Technocracy aren't idiots, all banks vaults have motion detectors and security cameras, with emergency generators to power them. So the cops would come too fast for me to teleport in, grab all the cash I can, and teleport out.

But I might be able to break the emergency generators with Matter and shut down the power to the area through hacking the power company.

In not too long, I'll have Prime 2, so I could just make a lot of diamonds; I have a supertech that will let me create them coincidentially. But selling that many without getting Technocratic attention is unlikely.

Any ideas?
Please don't mention any ideas relating to favors from or attacks agaisnt other supernatural groups. They exist, but my DM forbids us to seek info on them lest we know stuff OOC that we don't know IC, and if he on the off chance found me asking I could lose some xp.

tyckspoon
2010-08-26, 12:38 PM
Frankly, robbing banks wouldn't get you the money you want anyway. Most banks don't have that much raw cash on hand, and you'd attract far more attention doing it than you want to deal with.

Most money in the modern world exists only on paper or electronically, and that's the sources you want to and can tap with your talents. Set up some accounts in a few bank systems and very carefully assign new money to them. Approve yourself/a disposable fake ID for a home loan or other big-ticket item. Rig a lottery drawing (preferably one that uses a computerized system and has a big televised 'drawing the numbers' show that makes everything look normal.) You probably don't want to give yourself the big jackpot- somebody likely checks out the big winners- but if you do something like win yourself a 200k cut of a 20 million-plus Powerball, along with a hundred other people? Probably not gonna get looked at too hard. Create a day-trading program that uses your magically-enhanced ability to understand and predict trends to play the stock market.

Enter some videogame tournaments and use your magic to give yourself the edge. The more prestigious pro leagues can have significant cash prizes. Sure, this stuff isn't as fast as 'I cleaned a bank and now I'm up 50k', but it's a lot less likely to get other supernaturals on your ass, especially if you or a member of your group is good at setting up fake ID and/or making money hard to trace.

Gnaeus
2010-08-26, 12:52 PM
Day trade on the markets. Use your hacking to get insider information that will help you. If this isn't making money fast enough, buy shares in a company then plant a virus in a rival company's computer that makes them look really stupid. When your company's stock jumps in response, sell, along with everyone else.

pife
2010-08-26, 12:53 PM
Well first things first..

You say that you wouldn't have the ability to teleport in, grab cash, and teleport out? So your ST is telling you that in his WOD, Bank Robbery just doesn't happen anymore? Unlikely..

But be that as it may. You don't have to actually GO to the bank.. You can scry on the vault, and then using Correspondence and Matter, you can actually pull the money into your hand from where you are.. It even describes pulling a rock into your hand from across a field using this method, so it won't even be breaking RAW.. I'm fairly certain that Corr 3, and Matter 2 will get the job done.. I'd check on that though.

Go to Vegas (with your cabal).. Use Correspondence and Time to find out who is going to win that boxing match or football game. Or use Entropy to make the outcome what you want. "He fumbled AGAIN"?

Or, lets be REALLY untraceable.. Still in Vegas, using the Correspondence and Matter gig, reach into the drop boxes on the tables. It's totally dark, no cameras no microphones, and just wads and wads of cash.. (Having worked in casinos, I can tell you that a drop box, even at a small casino, can have upwards of $50k in it by the end of the night).. Just empty out the boxes for an entire pit and you'll have your million. And Surveillance will have conniptions for months because "nobody even got NEAR those boxes".. They're under camera constantly, transported by several men with guns, etc..

By the way.. I'm drawing a blank right now.. how hard would it be (and what spheres would you use) to just change the denomination of paper money? Like, turning a $1 into a $100... Seems like it should be fairly simple, que no?

I'll try to think of some more. Hope this helps.

Severus
2010-08-26, 12:57 PM
Help drug dealers launder their money. Lots of cash, and all the illegal contacts you want. With your correspondence you can ensure you never meet, and they never know who you are, so if they're busted you don't go down with them.

Noneoyabizzness
2010-08-26, 01:04 PM
As the old comic book adds advised: sell grit

Master_Rahl22
2010-08-26, 01:06 PM
I'm sure it would be Matter to change the demonination, but I'd require some kind of knowledge type check (forgive me, it's been quite a while since I've played WoD and don't have books in front of me) to be able to do it successfully. Just because your character has the capability to turn a $1 into a $100 doesn't mean your character knows about all of the security features that need to be accounted for.

I like the idea of hacking as well. You could use Correspondence and Matter to get any physical key needed (ID badge, master key, security token, etc.) then go to town.

JeenLeen
2010-08-26, 01:19 PM
You say that you wouldn't have the ability to teleport in, grab cash, and teleport out? So your ST is telling you that in his WOD, Bank Robbery just doesn't happen anymore? Unlikely..


To clarify, bank robberies happen. However, it'd be very hard and very obviously magical to shut down all the bank defenses (kill the power and/or break the security camera and motion detectors; kill the backup generator if killing the power), which would lead to all that money entering a registry in the Technocracy databanks.

So when I spend it or try to deposit it, unless I have a very trustworthy laundryman, I'm in trouble.



But be that as it may. You don't have to actually GO to the bank.. You can scry on the vault, and then using Correspondence and Matter, you can actually pull the money into your hand from where you are.. It even describes pulling a rock into your hand from across a field using this method, so it won't even be breaking RAW.. I'm fairly certain that Corr 3, and Matter 2 will get the job done.. I'd check on that though.

...


Or, lets be REALLY untraceable.. Still in Vegas, using the Correspondence and Matter gig, reach into the drop boxes on the tables. It's totally dark, no cameras no microphones, and just wads and wads of cash.. (Having worked in casinos, I can tell you that a drop box, even at a small casino, can have upwards of $50k in it by the end of the night).. Just empty out the boxes for an entire pit and you'll have your million. And Surveillance will have conniptions for months because "nobody even got NEAR those boxes".. They're under camera constantly, transported by several men with guns, etc..


This might work. It's Correspondence 2 / Matter 2 to teleport up to housecat-sized objects, so I could only grab a few bundles at a time. And since money would just be appearing in front of me, I'd still get 2 Paradox per teleport. I might be able to teleport a few bundles coincidentially into a safe or lockbox somewhere, but to get the funds I'd need would be too paradoxical.

Now when I train up to Correspondence 4, this might work.



By the way.. I'm drawing a blank right now.. how hard would it be (and what spheres would you use) to just change the denomination of paper money? Like, turning a $1 into a $100... Seems like it should be fairly simple, que no?


I think it'd be Matter 4, since it's transmuting a non-homogenous substance (paper + ink + whatever chemicals are in it to make it hard to forge), so that's out for now. I also don't know anyone with Matter 4, which is a shame because supertech could probably do that coincidentially.




Frankly, robbing banks wouldn't get you the money you want anyway. Most banks don't have that much raw cash on hand, and you'd attract far more attention doing it than you want to deal with.

Most money in the modern world exists only on paper or electronically, and that's the sources you want to and can tap with your talents. Set up some accounts in a few bank systems and very carefully assign new money to them. Approve yourself/a disposable fake ID for a home loan or other big-ticket item. Rig a lottery drawing (preferably one that uses a computerized system and has a big televised 'drawing the numbers' show that makes everything look normal.) You probably don't want to give yourself the big jackpot- somebody likely checks out the big winners- but if you do something like win yourself a 200k cut of a 20 million-plus Powerball, along with a hundred other people? Probably not gonna get looked at too hard. Create a day-trading program that uses your magically-enhanced ability to understand and predict trends to play the stock market.

Enter some videogame tournaments and use your magic to give yourself the edge. The more prestigious pro leagues can have significant cash prizes. Sure, this stuff isn't as fast as 'I cleaned a bank and now I'm up 50k', but it's a lot less likely to get other supernaturals on your ass, especially if you or a member of your group is good at setting up fake ID and/or making money hard to trace.


We're pretty sure any big winners are traced by the Technocracy, but that PowerBowl thing might work. Winning a statistically unlikely amount of money at Vegas or another big gambling place will also get one investigated. As will, as some other mentions, day trading and making unsatistically likely gains.

However, rigging a few minor lotteries might work, if Entropy can be that specific. Maybe if our Time guy gets Entropy 2, he can look into the future and direct chance to make certain things win.

I probably can get enough money to get by with the above recommendations--the loan idea is a very good one--but to get into huge amounts needed to set up a trust fund (and Resources 3), it's tricky.

Thanks for the advice, all. I have gotten some ideas. If you have any more, please let me know.

pife
2010-08-26, 01:22 PM
Using Correspondence and Matter again, this time to View Multiple locations.. Use the Matter to detect large formations of metal (or gold, or whatever) and search the bottom of the oceans (scrying on multiple locations simultaneously) for shipwrecks. (Spanish Main Treasure Ships, anyone)? Then either go get it yourself or just teleport it to yourself. Nobody there to watch it, and I doubt the Technocracy is scrutinizing antiquities dealers..

Teleport into that mine with the trapped Chilean miners and scrape gold off the walls.. I believe there are currently no lights or camera's down there. Hell, they probably even have some of it staged to be brought out of the mine.. "Oh look, they even wrapped it up for me"!! By the way, if you want to be really cool about it, you'll bring a trained kangaroo carrying glowsticks and a pouch full of Gatorade and Game Boys for the poor bored miners.. You can distract them with that, get your gold, and get out. Meanwhile.. 33 poor Chilean miners get to be psychoanalyzed for mass hallucinations... Whee!! Right around Christmas time, when they finally get out of that hole..

Or, you could just get Tiger Woods to cheat on you. That's half a billion right there.. j/k

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-26, 01:26 PM
I've talked to the DM and he said, because the Technocracy aren't idiots, all banks vaults have motion detectors and security cameras, with emergency generators to power them. So the cops would come too fast for me to teleport in, grab all the cash I can, and teleport out.

But I might be able to break the emergency generators with Matter and shut down the power to the area through hacking the power company.
Why teleport? Just use Correspondence to scry the contents of a vault and Correspondence + Matter to 'port it into a Faraday Cage. You might not be able to steal cash (personally, I rule the weave & ink of modern currency is too complex for Matter 2 to understand), but taking gold bars is always good.

In the alternative, super-hacking fund transfers into anonymous bank accounts is pretty easy for VAs :smallbiggrin:

Also: make gold bars instead of diamonds; diamonds have little real value, while gold is intrinsically valuable. You can then sell off gold to any of the various "we buy gold" places anytime you need quick cash.

JeenLeen
2010-08-26, 01:32 PM
Oh; and if it matters for any ideas:

The setting is currently early January 2002.

In 2001, 9/11 was a nuke set off in Manhattan, destroying the area. (Done by ratkin to destroy a Pentex base, but took the major Syndicate Construct as well.)

After 9/11, it became well-known that Technocrat acoltyes are somehow scanning people at airports, probably either with Aura-sight, to check for supernaturals. So air travel is now much more dangerous. Major border crossings may or may not be magically guarded as well. Essentially all the economic troubles and security increases from 2001 up 'til now happened in a few months instead of a few years, only worse.

Also, New Years Day (Jan. 1, 2002), 32 attacks worldwide, done by Marauders, have caused some havoc that is not yet fully known. So most illegal businesses are really on guard--my character's weapon dealer is closing shop, I think--and a big depression is probably coming.

So things are hectic on the economic front.

And I just found out I need to raise 5 million to set up the trust fund. :smallfrown:


Why teleport? Just use Correspondence to scry the contents of a vault and Correspondence + Matter to 'port it into a Faraday Cage. You might not be able to steal cash (personally, I rule the weave & ink of modern currency is too complex for Matter 2 to understand), but taking gold bars is always good.

In the alternative, super-hacking fund transfers into anonymous bank accounts is pretty easy for VAs :smallbiggrin:

Also: make gold bars instead of diamonds; diamonds have little real value, while gold is intrinsically valuable. You can then sell off gold to any of the various "we buy gold" places anytime you need quick cash.

The problem with the hacks is that the Technocracy is likely to trace the dummy account. Which is fine if I can get the money out soon enough. If they find out before I make the withdraw, though, there's likely MiBs waiting to ambush me.

As for gold, that's a good idea, theft-wise, although again until I hit Correspondence 4 I'd be limited to probably one bar at a time. Magically, though, I can't think of a way to coincidentially make gold, while I do have a DM-approved supertech focus: uses lasers to add imperfections to cubic zirconium to transmute it into diamond.

SuperCracker
2010-08-26, 01:37 PM
He says that robbing a bank via teleportation isn't viable? In the last WoD game we played, my crew busted in the front door to the bank and just straight-up robbed it.

So teleportation should definitely work.

Here's what you do. Forces to warp light around yourself for invisibility to defeat the cameras (then how will they know who to catch), or simply mega-hack the security system (since you are a VA) using a magic-enhanced hacking attempt (this requires some legwork before the robbery, so you can get close enough to access their closed system... but done right, no one should notice).

Or, plan B. Again, you're a VA. You don't bother trying to snatch physical cash. Use your hacking superiority to set up a series of syphons from companies, taking small amounts of cash from them at a time and depositing them into various bank accounts. However, this is continuous, so that money starts to add up quick.

Or rob a bank's assets through the internet. (Still counts as plan B).

This is child's play!

Edit: Also, redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. Don't have one Dummy Account. Have twelve of them, and even then make sure you set up false corporations and other means to shield yourself from the Technocs. Sure, they'll eventually find something, but if you make it extremely complicated, it'll take them lots of time, and by then you've gotten all the cash you needed and have gotten out of the scam.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-26, 01:44 PM
The problem with the hacks is that the Technocracy is likely to trace the dummy account. Which is fine if I can get the money out soon enough. If they find out before I make the withdraw, though, there's likely MiBs waiting to ambush me.
Get a crooked lawyer and have him launder the money into a trust or through some hedge funds. Set it up right, and even the Technocracy can't rip your ID out of anyone - they can't tell what they don't know.

And ambush where? Surely you weren't planning on making a withdrawal in person :smallamused:


As for gold, that's a good idea, theft-wise, although again until I hit Correspondence 4 I'd be limited to probably one bar at a time. Magically, though, I can't think of a way to coincidentially make gold, while I do have a DM-approved supertech focus: uses lasers to add imperfections to cubic zirconium to transmute it into diamond.
Eh, well the same can be used with diamonds. It's a little better too, since cartels control the market price for diamonds: you don't have to worry about creating a glut in the market.

The trick is to spread out the laundering such that no single transaction is big enough to alert the Technocracy. If they come after you anyways, be sure to ask your Executioner why they spent so much time tracking you down when Maurauders are blowin' up all over the place :smalltongue:

JeenLeen
2010-08-26, 03:46 PM
Had another discussion with the DM and I'm pretty sure if I tried any of the above to get rich enough, the Technocracy would probably notice.

Unless I get some criminals or lawyers who are Tradition acolytes--which is not impossible, but is rather unlikely given the plot--it'd be hard to get it worked out in a way that I'm sure won't eventually backfire.

These have given me some good ideas on how to make money, though. Not enough to boost my Resources, probably, but enough to pay for anything I can find a seller of.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-26, 03:50 PM
So, if the Storyteller is shooting down every idea you have, why not just ask him what he will allow to raise your Resources? It's easier, in the long run, than playing 20 Questions.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-26, 03:59 PM
So, if the Storyteller is shooting down every idea you have, why not just ask him what he will allow to raise your Resources? It's easier, in the long run, than playing 20 Questions.
At this point, I have to agree.

Your ST is being silly about the extent of Technocratic survelliance, particularly considering the heightened threats in your campaign. Cameras and motion sensors, for example, are easily circumvented by Invisibility (Forces 2, Corr. 2), and an " instantaneous police response" is trivial to stop with a simple Matter or Entropy 3 effect to break the lock on the vault. And there's no reason for the Technocracy to keep track of lottery winners in the hopes of finding some chump with Time or Entropy 2 - the money is going to go to someone anyhow, so what if some Tradition Mage does it? At worst, the Technocracy will flag your name as a potential Reality Criminal and see if you're making a nuissance of yourself - it's not like you're 'porting Bygones into Central Park or something.

Achieving ridiculous amounts of money in oWoD Mage is simplicity itself - which is probably why your ST is using so much fiat to prevent it. You might as well board his train on this one and be done with it.

Severus
2010-08-26, 04:34 PM
Yeah, it sounds like your storyteller has a very particular view of what is possible that isn't very obvious to me from listening to you. He shoots down ideas that ought to work. The problem is that the technocracy _could_ find you a lot of different ways, but they can't actually check all those ways unless that have a bizillion people.

If the technocracy can find you helping criminals launder money, then all criminals are effectively found and there is no drug crime.

Don't rob a bank. Rob a museum. Steal some picassos worth $20 million a piece and sell on the back market for a couple million each. Their security systems probably suck enough that you can make the skill roll to make your theft look like it was just a skilled normal.

Hack one drug cartel's finances and offer it to another one for some green.

etc, etc.

Jornophelanthas
2010-08-26, 04:59 PM
It sounds to me that when you ask your Storyteller "Can I make enough money by doing X?", the Storyteller then brainstorms over reasons why that would not work.

Instead, ask the Storyteller for reasons why any scam would work. Or ask the Storyteller whether there is any point in even trying, since raising Backgrounds in oWoD requires Storyteller approval anyway. If he/she does not want you to raise your Background, it's best if it's out in the open.