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Zaydos
2010-08-27, 04:19 PM
I have a player that's going to be in a 1 or 2 person campaign, and he wants a good functional character. He's rather new to the game, having played a few times before (as a cleric) and doesn't know what he wants to play and has asked me to give him suggestions.

Information:
Loves WoW, although he's trying to quit it because it eats all his time.
Cannot handle a prepared caster.

The game world doesn't use truename magic or incarnum but most everything else is open.

Doesn't need to be a really optimized character (if it is a 2 person game then the other character is probably unoptimized) but something fairly simple while remaining interesting.

I was thinking about suggesting a dragonfire adept of some sort, maybe with a level of factotum and able learner to get rogue skills so he'd have more options (and it's pretty easy to learn when to use open locks and disable device).

So any advice playgrounders?

Kaje
2010-08-27, 04:26 PM
Warlock. Neither useless nor overpowered, and no complicated bookkeeping. He'll enjoy it.

Ooh, or Binder.

peterpaulrubens
2010-08-27, 04:30 PM
I'd go with a "specialized spontaneous" class like the Beguiler.

Why? Because it'll be an easy transition for him from WoW-like games. He can cast any spell he knows at any time. He doesn't have to pick "good" spells prior to ever seeing any of them in action like a sorceror, nor is he forced to pick "the ones that'll be good TODAY" like a wizard. And the short list of spells means he doesn't have pore through lots of books to know what they do.

Awnetu
2010-08-27, 04:54 PM
If he played a Warrior, I would recommend a Barbarian.

If he played a Druid, a druid, because at least the Bear/Cat are useful options for in game as well.

Warblade is similar to a rogue in some respects, Crusaders maneuver mechanics work sorta like Paladin/Arms Warrior dps rotations.

Keld Denar
2010-08-27, 04:59 PM
Dragonfire Adepts are pretty awesome, and also very tough to screw up. Just take 20 levels in it, and make sure that Entangling Exhalation is one of your feats. Everything else is just filler.

Alternatively, a Sorcerer or ToB class would be great as long as you/someone helped him pick manevuers. I could give you a good core-only spell list for any ECL of Sorcerer in about 5 minutes that gives him a VERy broad list of options to do from slinging fire to sneaking to buffing to blowing up the world. Once its set up, all he has to do is fire and forget. EZPK.

Nero24200
2010-08-27, 05:04 PM
Think I'll second warlock - The class is fairly simplistic and doesn't lose steam so he won't need to keep track of any per-day or per-ecounter abilities.

Mongoose87
2010-08-27, 05:05 PM
I think Warlock is great - all day class features that provide fun abilities. Just don't forget that his blasts are touch attacks, cause he sure will.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-08-27, 05:23 PM
I've got to go with the Warlock as well. They're hard to screw up. Binders are tricky as all hell, though, when it comes to figuring out what you want to do.

Greenish
2010-08-27, 05:36 PM
Should get a sticky or make a list or guide to simple and easy to learn classes. It gets asked so often.

I don't think barbarian has been mentioned yet. It's simple enuff to make do, though ToB classes are more fun (IMO).

Beguiler's "sister classes" warmage and dread necromancer share the spontaneous knows whole list thingy, with the warmage's list being a but underwhelming.

Sorcerer, favoured soul and spontaneous cleric and druid variants got the spontaneous casting but having to pick spells, while spirit shaman is a mix of prepared and spontaneous.

Shpadoinkle
2010-08-27, 05:49 PM
Warlock, Dragonfire Adept, or Dragon Shaman- they all have farily easy to understand abilities, and no daily or per-encounter uses to keep track of. You just have these abilites and can use them whenever you want. Once he's got a handle on the basics of the system, you can switch him to a character that uses different mechanics, like a ToB character or a spontaneous caster. I've never much liked prepared casters myself.

Greenish
2010-08-27, 05:55 PM
Warlock, Dragonfire Adept, or Dragon Dsiciple-Dragon Disciple? This Dragon Disciple (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/dragonDisciple.htm) with spells and 1/day breath weapon?

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-27, 05:56 PM
I will also support Warlock. Granted, It IS possible to ruin a Warlock by choosing weak abilities, like Warlock's Call, but you always can fall back on Eldritch Blast.

Lunix Vandal
2010-08-27, 06:11 PM
Dragon Disciple? This Dragon Disciple (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/dragonDisciple.htm) with spells and 1/day breath weapon?I think Shpadoinkle was referring to PHB2's Dragon Shaman, which can use a selection of always-on auras and a once-per-1d4 rounds breath weapon. (Much) Later, the class also gets a Lay On Hands analogue (Touch of Vitality) and 1/week cost-free commune. It does suffer from a touch of MAD, though, given that the breath save is Con-based, Touch of Vitality is Cha-based, and the stated-in-the-fluff-but-not-particularly-well-supported-in-the-crunch melee tendencies suggest Str.

Silly Wizard
2010-08-27, 06:24 PM
Warlock, Sorcerer, or Barbarian. Warlock is an easy class to get into, but it might cause him to be more iffy about Vancian casters later on- hence sorcerer. It'd give him the feel of Vancian casting, but it's fairly simple for a magic class. Barbarians are good for nifty abilities like raging, without dealing with magic at all.

IthilanorStPete
2010-08-27, 07:18 PM
I'd go with Warblade. Versatile, powerful, and incredibly easy to pick up.

Ihouji
2010-08-27, 07:20 PM
Druid easy, dirty, and everyone loves shooting bears at people. It is a prepared caster but it is also really hard to screw up, and can hold its own in melee if he forgets.

IthilanorStPete
2010-08-27, 07:22 PM
Druid easy, dirty, and everyone loves shooting bears at people. It is a prepared caster but it is also really hard to screw up, and can hold its own in melee if he forgets.

Going to heartily recommend against this, actually. It's incredibly annoying for a new person to keep track of, and not easy to play at all - keeping track of your animal companion and several wildshape forms and prepared casting is a bad way to introduce someone to 3.5.

FelixG
2010-08-27, 07:26 PM
If he goes warlock i would probably recommend picking up the glaive shape so that he can do melee if he wants too

Temotei
2010-08-27, 07:26 PM
Should get a sticky or make a list or guide to simple and easy to learn classes. It gets asked so often.

That would be useful. Hmm...:smallamused:

Hawriel
2010-08-27, 07:26 PM
let the new player play any class he/she wants from the players handbook. Dont nay say his choise. dont start souting crap about sup par or inbalance. Let him do what he wants and answer the questions that will come.

thompur
2010-08-27, 07:33 PM
I will sec...thir...fou..............eighth Warlock. Easy to build, and loads of fun to play. Little bookkeeping, not too strong, not too weak. They're like the baby bear's porridge.:smallwink:

Zaydos
2010-08-27, 11:01 PM
I talked to him and said the one's people listed (I asked him what he wanted to play first and he asked me to tell him what would be good which is why I came here) and he said he wanted to be a Sorcerer. I was starting at Lv 8, because 1) really low levels aren't fun for a lot of people and 2) they specifically wanted one of the more dangerous and high level parts of the world (I will tone down the danger level still), and 3) this lets them feel like heroes quicker; so the new question playgrounders is:

What would be some good spells for a Lv 8 sorcerer (he told me to ask)?

(and yes personally I'd say Warlock or Dragonfire Adept depending upon taste in fluff would be the easiest choice)

Crow
2010-08-27, 11:02 PM
Why has nobody said Bard???

But I agree with Hawriel. Seriously, that is the best thing you could do for a new player.

Zaydos
2010-08-27, 11:13 PM
let the new player play any class he/she wants from the players handbook. Dont nay say his choise. dont start souting crap about sup par or inbalance. Let him do what he wants and answer the questions that will come.


Why has nobody said Bard???

But I agree with Hawriel. Seriously, that is the best thing you could do for a new player.

He asked me to find him a class that would be good for a new player, not too complex, but powerful enough to be usable. So I decided to get a list of such classes so he could choose from it as opposed to showing him (how many classes are in 3.X?) when most of them don't fit the criteria (prepared casters, monk, samurai, paladin, fighter, etc).

Since he's said he wants to be a sorcerer, anyone got good spells for a sorcerer (Lv 8)? He said he wants a focus on utility and asked for good spells.

BladeofOblivion
2010-08-27, 11:17 PM
You need go no further than Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer Strategems (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74801). That said, I love Illusion, and it's a very good school to know. The Shadow Spells are practically a must for their versatility, and Phantasmal Killer is pretty low level for a straight up Save-or-Die. You also should know some transmutation and Conjuration. Divination is not as useful as it is for Wizards, but Greater Prying Eyes and Arcane Sight are worth it. If the Game goes to a high enough level, taking all five levels in Archmage is a very good choice, as is a large enough dip in Sand Shaper where you get a lot of new spells, but don't lose more than one caster level.

Noneoyabizzness
2010-08-28, 08:09 AM
he chose sorc? that can be good if he has an idea on what kinda person he is playing to mesh what kinda spells he'd best use.


and bard is fun but it is not for beginers unless you have a large group to buff with song. in a two man group it becomes a bit harder to know what you SHOULD be doing to keep your partner alive.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-28, 09:15 AM
Sorc: Some version of flight. A SoD/SoL. An aoe blasty spell. Some form of crowd control. Etc. Go for versatility.

At level eight, fireball and fly make good third level choices, grease and wings of cover are good for second level, phantasmal killer is good for fourth, Detect magic and prestidigitation as cantrips, etc.

The important thing is to never be in a situation where you can't cast anything useful. The above recommendations are notable for covering a wide variety of bases without a lot of overlap.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-08-28, 09:16 AM
Barbarian. No question,

subject42
2010-08-28, 09:35 AM
If he wants to play a sorcerer, he'll need spells that can always do something, even if they can't do something awesome.

Here are the big ones for me, levesl 1 - 5:

Grease
Glitterdust
Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dracomaginomicon, or something)
Black Tentacles
An Orb Spell (SpC)
Vitriolic Sphere (SpC)

thompur
2010-08-28, 10:17 AM
4th level - Defenestrating Sphere, because, you know, it's Defenestrating .(or Evard's Black Tentacles, or Wall of Fire)

3rd level- Mass Snakes Swiftness, and Fly

2nd - Glitterdust, Scorching Ray, Rope Trick

1st - Mage Armor, Grease, Lesser Orb of Sound(few if any creatures have sound resistance), Ray of Clumsiness, Nerveskitter

0th - Prestidigitation, Caltrops, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Message, Mage Hand

Keld Denar
2010-08-28, 04:31 PM
For a newbie, I'd actually go:

4th: Evard's Black Tentacles

3rd: Haste, Scintilating Sphere

2nd: Glitterdust, Invisibility, Scorching Ray

1st: Mage Armor, Grease, Alarm, Ray of Enfeelblement, Lesser Orb of Acid

true_shinken
2010-08-29, 12:09 PM
A sorcerer without Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry is not a sorcerer at all. He's just a wizard with fewer spells known.
Wings of Cover/Flurry are sorcerer exclusive and they absolutely rock.

Nidogg
2010-08-29, 12:37 PM
whats the power level to the game? If its mid-high then the lists here are good but If you are in a low ish powre game blasting is a great start for a simple caster and its easy have him metamagic blasty spells, remember practiced metamagic is a sorceror only feat, give him as many cost reducers and he'll obliterate everything.

Dr.Epic
2010-08-29, 12:41 PM
Fighter or Barbarian; those were the first two classes I ever played.