Homebrew Class - Reaver (3.5e) P.E.A.C.H.

[Greyfeld]

I developed this class idea from a class I used to love playing when I used to MUD over a decade ago. I've gotten some input from a couple people (one of which says that it sits solidly in tier 3), but I would like thoughts from a wider range of sources. So here goes, the Reaver for D&D 3.5e.


Alignment: Any Evil
HD: 1d8
BAB: Good
Saves: Fort/Will - Good, Ref - Bad
Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Craft, Decipher Script, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Religion), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot.
Skills Points/Level: 4 + Int Modifier
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Reavers are proficient in Light, Medium and Heavy armor, all shields (except Tower Shields), and all Simple and Martial Weapons.

Abilities

Soul Weapon: At level 1, the Reaver chooses a specific melee weapon. This weapon must be of Masterwork quality. The Reaver then spends 24 uninterrupted hours attuning his soul to the weapon with the aid of a cleric of his own deity. Once the process is completed, the resulting weapon takes on a blood-red tint and confers multiple bonuses to the Reaver.


Unholy Weapon (Su) - A Reaver's Soul Weapon is considered Evil for the sake of bypassing Damage Reduction. It also radiates an evil aura that can easily be identified by detection abilities such as Detect Evil.

Weapon Focus (Su) - At 1st class level, while wielding his Soul Weapon, the Reaver is treated as having the Weapon Focus feat, even if he would not normally meet the prerequisites for this feat. This only effects the Reaver's Soul Weapon.

Weapon Specialization (Su) - At 3rd class level, while wielding his Soul Weapon, the Reaver is treated as having the Weapon Specialization feat, even if he would not normally meet the prerequisites for this feat. This only effects the Reaver's Soul Weapon.

Greater Weapon Focus (Su) - At 5th class level, while wielding his Soul Weapon, the Reaver is treated as having the Greater Weapon Focus feat, even if he would not normally meet the prerequisites for this feat. This only effects the Reaver's Soul Weapon.

Greater Weapon Specialization (Su) - At 7th class level, while wielding his Soul Weapon, the Reaver is treated as having the Greater Weapon Specialization feat, even if he would not normally meet the prerequisites for this feat. This only effects the Reaver's Soul Weapon.

Blood Theft (Su) - When a Reaver draws blood with his Soul Weapon, it draws out the target's life force, storing it inside the weapon. Every time lethal damage is dealt to a target with the Soul Weapon, it accumulates 1 Blood Point for every HD of the target. The Reaver may use a standard action to draw on the the power accumulated in the blade, healing himself for 1 hit point per Blood Point drawn in this way. The Reaver does not have to use all accumulated Blood Points at once, and may break up the healing in any increment he chooses as long as there are Blood Points left within the weapon. The maximum number of blood points capable of being held in the Soul Weapon at one time is equal to 4x class level.

Recall (Su) - At class level 2, the Reaver may use a Swift Action to recall his Soul Weapon. If this weapon is on the same plane as the Reaver, it will teleport into the Reaver's hand.

Soul Scrying (Su) - At class level 4, the Reaver may scry on his Soul Weapon as if using the Scrying spell. This ability has no component requirement. Being bound to your soul, the Soul Weapon is afforded no Will Save.

Any feats that require prerequisites of one or more feats that are conferred as part of the Supernatural Abilities (Such as a feat that requires Weapon Focus as a prereq.) listed above may be taken normally (as long as you meet all other prerequisites) as if the Reaver had taken the above feats normally (such as through level, or bonus feats). Any feats taken that use the above Supernatural abilities as feat prerequisites may only use the purchased feat in conjunction with the Reaver's Soul Weapon.

A Reaver may untie his soul from his weapon permanently if he so chooses. He may either do this gradually or forcefully. If he does it gradually, he must spend 24 uninterrupted hours, untying his soul from the weapon with the aid of a cleric of his own deity. If he does it forcefully, he must spend 1 minute severing his ties with the weapon. Either way, tearing the soul away from his weapon may potentially put the Reaver in a state of shock. If he chooses to do it gradually, he must roll a DC 15 Fort Save. Doing so forcefully requires a DC 20 Fort Save. A successful Fort Save results in 1 day of feeling Sickened. A failed Fort Save results in 1 day of feeling Sickened for every 2 class levels. Additionally, if the Reaver forcefully severs ties with his Soul Weapon, he must roll a second Fort Save at DC 25, failure resulting in taking a penalty of half his base Con score (natural Con, before enchantments, buffs, etc., rounded up) for 1 day per 4 class levels. These saving throws are required 1 hour after the Reaver has been completely cut off from the Soul Weapon.

A Soul Weapon that is broken is treated as if it had been forcefully severed from the Reaver, but the connection remains unless he willingly unties himself from the weapon. Repairing the weapon requires a drop of blood from the Reaver during the repairing process. If the Soul Weapon is disintegrated or otherwise removed from existence, the Reaver cannot remake the weapon and must instead bind himself to a new one.
Reavers may only have 1 Soul Weapon in existence at any given time. If the Reaver attempts to create a Soul Weapon while another weapon attuned to his soul is still in existence, his soul will be forcefully severed from his current Soul Weapon.

A Reaver may attune himself to a new weapon only after he has fully recovered from Sickness and Con penalties associated with untying his soul from his previous Soul Weapon.


Corruption (Su): At level 1, a Reaver gains the ability to corrupt and steal souls through his Soul Weapon. The Reaver first issues a standard grapple attack. If the target is below 50% health and the grapple is successful, he may use his Soul Weapon in a touch attack, dealing standard weapon damage without his strength modifier. Every round that the Reaver has his target grappled in this way, he may continue to deal lethal damage through his Soul Weapon as a touch attack. If the target would be killed in this way, its soul is forcibly taken from its body and stored inside the Reaver's Soul Weapon. His weapon gains a number of Charges equal to the HD of the Soul captured.


Soul Smite (Su): At level 1, a Reaver who has consumed a Soul using his Corruption ability may use it to fuel his blows. Each Soul Smite uses one of these Charges. A successful Soul Smite adds 1/2 of the Reaver's Class Level to his Damage, in the form of Negative Energy Damage.

Soul Beam (Su) - At level 4, A Reaver who has trapped a soul within his Soul Weapon may expend two Charges to make a ranged touch attack as a standard action, up to a range of 60 ft. This attack is equal to the Reaver's weapon damage + Wisdom Modifier.

Soul Blast (Su) - At level 6, A Reaver who has trapped a soul within his Soul Weapon may expend 4 charges to make a burst attack, centered around the Reaver, as a standard action, up to a radius of 15 ft. This attack deals damage equal to double the Reaver's class level as negative energy. Targets within the blast radius may make a Reflex Save for half damage, at DC 10 + Wisdom Modifier + 1/2 class level.

Domination (Su) - At level 8, A Reaver who has trapped a soul within his Soul Weapon may use it to command undead forces. Using a standard action, he may release the soul trapped in his Soul Weapon in order to gain control of undead, expending all remaining charges. The number of undead brought under the Reaver's control with this technique is HD equal to the number of charges the current trapped soul conveyed to the Soul Weapon (For example, a Soul with 5 charges remaining could use Domination to bring up to 5 HD of undead under the Reaver's control). This effect explodes in a burst shape with the Reaver as its center, affecting undead starting with those closest to the caster, radiating outward to a 60 ft. radius. The control exerted over the undead lasts 1 min./class level.

Greater Soul Smite (Su): Upon reaching level 10, a Reaver may use the essence of a particularly powerful Soul to actually damage the soul of a foe he is combating. If a Reaver lands a Soul Smite attack and the Soul powering the Corruption ability still has at least 10 Charges (after subtracting one for the current Soul Smite) he may shatter the target's soul immediately to deal 1 Negative Level to the victim of the Soul Smite.

Reaving Soul Smite (Su): Upon reaching level 15, a Reaver may deal 1d4 Negative Levels with a Greater Soul Smite.

Soul Extinction (Su): Upon reaching level 20, a Reaver may deal 2d4 Negative Levels with a Greater Soul Smite. If the Soul has 20 Charges remaining (after subtracting the 1 for the current Soul Smite attempt) then you may roll 3d4 and drop the lowest die result.

A Reaver may only have 1 soul trapped in his Soul Weapon at a time. An attempt to capture a soul while one already resides in the weapon will result in the current soul being released to make room for the new soul. A Reaver may release a soul from his weapon willingly with a move action.

Corruption can only be used on targets who have a soul (or are constructed of one). This means that he may also steal the soul of summoned creatures before they return to the plane they originated from. Anything that does not have a soul, such as undead, constructs, etc. are immune to Corruption, and the negative level effects of the advanced Soul Smite abilities. If a target is killed by use of Corruption, the loss of its soul will speed the body's decaying process drastically, decaying into dust within 12 hours.

Souls that are trapped in a Reaver's Soul Weapon are corrupted and turned evil. Should the soul be released whole for any reason, it should be treated as malign. If any Charges conveyed to the Reaver's Soul Weapon by a creature's soul are used, that soul is considered too damaged to be used in any spells or rituals that would normally require a soul in order to perform them, and dissipates immediately if it is released from its entrapment.

[Kurtmuran]

i se this in one wiki dungeon o,o

[Greyfeld]

I don't know what you're talking about. I just made this class a few days ago. If it shares a name with somebody else's homebrew class, I wouldn't be surprised, but I assure you that this iteration of the Reaver isn't on... wiki dungeon or whatever it's called.

[Greyfeld]

/bumpity bump bump

[Zaydos]

Piece of advice #1 go to this thread http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313 and find the appropriate table and put the class in it, it makes its abilities much easier to understand what comes when (I didn't get this when I started homebrewing either because I never had trouble finding them on my own creations but I do on other people's).

Since I don't know the game you say you've based it off of I can't say as much as I could otherwise.

Corruption though does have a lot of problems/complications. It seals the soul away making it a powerful anti-resurrection ability, it seems to imply that you could use it to turn your opponent's evil and then release the soul (which would mean bring them back as your allies), and can permanently damage the soul preventing resurrection. Also some undead (any incorporeal ones) are souls (and corporeal ones are arguably animated by their old souls and WotC can't decide on what's up there), and constructs are normally animated by the souls of elementals so why they're the listed examples of creatures without souls to be immune is a little odd. Also the means to get soul charges is probably abusable, although it does encourage keeping your enemies alive and unconscious.

Also I don't really see anything here that gives them the versatility which is what makes Tier 3 what it is. I guess they have a decent class skills list which helps a bit.

[Greyfeld]

Piece of advice #1 go to this thread http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313 and find the appropriate table and put the class in it, it makes its abilities much easier to understand what comes when (I didn't get this when I started homebrewing either because I never had trouble finding them on my own creations but I do on other people's).

Table wouldn't help much, since I don't have it written up as class abilities gained at specific levels anyway. It's just "Soul Weapon" and "Corruption" gained at level 1, with special abilities added to them as you gain in levels. *Shrugs* I've been told the formatting should be changed to be more "reader friendly" but I didn't feel like doing all the extra work.


Corruption though does have a lot of problems/complications. It seals the soul away making it a powerful anti-resurrection ability

Yes, that was intentional. It gives added depth to the soul-stealing mechanic, allowing for more uses than just "My sword's power level is OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAANNND!!!"


it seems to imply that you could use it to turn your opponent's evil and then release the soul (which would mean bring them back as your allies)

Bringing a character back as evil does not automatically mean they will be your allies. But yes, the idea is that the evil taint of the weapon will turn the soul evil, and should that soul be resurrected, the person will come back to life with a twisted, tainted soul.

Also, this is balanced against the fact that you can't use the trapped soul to increase your damage output if you intend on carrying the soul with you for any length of time.


and can permanently damage the soul preventing resurrection.

Again, yes. I don't see the problem here.


Also some undead (any incorporeal ones) are souls (and corporeal ones are arguably animated by their old souls and WotC can't decide on what's up there), and constructs are normally animated by the souls of elementals so why they're the listed examples of creatures without souls to be immune is a little odd.

I don't know where this information is from, so I would have to read it myself before making any changes.


Also the means to get soul charges is probably abusable, although it does encourage keeping your enemies alive and unconscious.

"Probably" abusable? I appreciate the attempt to point out things that need to be fixed to avoid breaking the class, but "probably abusable" isn't very specific, or helpful.


Also I don't really see anything here that gives them the versatility which is what makes Tier 3 what it is. I guess they have a decent class skills list which helps a bit.

Self-healing, level damage, versatile skills list, undead control, melee and ranged damage, and pumpable damage. They do one thing well (damage), and do several other things decently (damage mitigation, skill monkeying, crowd control), which is the very definition of a tier 3 class.

Those aren't my words, by the way, they're the words of somebody else who took a lot of time to help me tweak the class.

[Greyfeld]

/bump once again

[Siegel]

So this is an evil Soulblade ?

Class Feature : You get a weapon

and a few bonus feats ?

Nothing more ? lame

[FlamingKobold]

Yeah... This is definitely not T3. It might be T4.

And yeah, make a table; we like tables here. This has a lot of dead levels, especially at later levels. And with no PrCs that advance your soulblade, you either are stuck taking all those dead levels or just not advancing your only class feature (which probably wouldn't really be that much of a loss, but still).

[Greyfeld]

{Scrubbed}

[Milskidasith]

It is hard to evaluate a class when the formatting makes it nearly impossible to parse. But I can see it's a base class, so here's my opinion.

This is horribly weak. It's class feature is to grant few fighter bonus feats with one weapon, and it requires you to burn kills done in an incredibly specific way (while grappling with the enemy at low HP and without your strength bonus) in order to do anything really unique, and those unique abilities really aren't that great; the negative levels would be OK if you didn't get them so late immunity to them is easily possible.

It does nothing well, honestly. It gets a decent amount of in combat healing, I guess, except it uses a standard action in order to do so, which means you're going to get hit for far more than you actually heal at any level, and even if you can maintain soul charges, you don't do too much. Maintaining soul charges is also very hard, since the only way you have a chance of actually killing somebody ECL appropriate to maintain soul charges is by using soul charges; as soon as you don't have them ready or can't land the killing blow to recharge, you are useless.

The only powerful thing is the ability to, from level 1 on, completely prevent anything from being resurrected, which is not something D&D design supports and should be scrapped.

EDIT: Basically, I'd call this T5 at best. It's class features are less bonus feats than the fighter (so less damage in melee for sure), with a rather mediocre skill list and few in combat options, since they are all locked into being grappler builds if they want to actually use their other abilities. The MAD of the class abilities doesn't help. The abilities you say it gets -damage mitigation, undead control, ranged damage - are far. far too weak to be useful; undead are very weak per hit die, so getting them isn't that great, your damage mitigation heals far less than you'll be taking per round, and your ranged damage is very weak and, again, requires you to go through an incredibly difficult process every time you want to use your class features.

[unosarta]

If you just don't like making tables, I love coding tables. And honestly, not making a table for your class just makes it seem like you aren't putting very much work into it, and it makes it hard to envision how exactly the features pan out, over 20 levels. Also, you can find multitudes of websites that code tables for classes for free, online, so that isn't really an excuse.

Reaver
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2| Soul Weapon (Unholy Weapon, Weapon Focus), Corruption (Soul Smite)

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3| Soul Weapon (Recall)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3| Soul Weapon (Weapon Specialization)

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4| Soul Weapon (Soul Scrying), Corruption (Soul Beam)

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4| Soul Weapon (Greater Weapon Focus)

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+5| Corruption (Soul Blast)

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+5| Soul Weapon (Greater Weapon Specialzation)

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+6| Corruption (Domination)

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+7| Corruption (Greater Soul Smite)

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+7|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+8|

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+8|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+9|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+9| Corruption (Reaving Soul Smite)

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+10|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12| Corruption (Soul Extinction) [/table]

Reaver
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2| Soul Weapon (Unholy Weapon, Weapon Focus), Corruption (Soul Smite)

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3| Soul Weapon (Recall)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3| Soul Weapon (Weapon Specialization)

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4| Soul Weapon (Soul Scrying), Corruption (Soul Beam)

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4| Soul Weapon (Greater Weapon Focus)

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+5| Corruption (Soul Blast)

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+5| Soul Weapon (Greater Weapon Specialzation)

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+6| Corruption (Domination)

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+7| Corruption (Greater Soul Smite)

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+7|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+8|

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+8|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+9|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+9| Corruption (Reaving Soul Smite)

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+10|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12| Corruption (Soul Extinction) [/table]



When do you get Bloodtheft? Also, this class is really, really frontloaded. It gains some really terrible feats (Weapon Focus, really?) Honestly, I doubt this should be a base class at all; it seems far more like a prestige class for Soulknife. And it would probably be better that way. Just get rid of the 15th and 20th level abilities, and then balance the first bunch out, give progression for soulknife damage, and there you go.

Onto the Corruption abilities. These really need to just be their own abilities. Don’t tie them into another ability, that just makes it confusing to read. Taking souls is generally useless against larger targets, forcing the DM to “give” you souls. Seeing as it is the main way to power class abilities, this seems off. Also, the Reaver seems sort of disjoined. He has a weapon. But in order to get his class abilities, he needs to grapple. How can multiple characters be different with this base class? They have a weapon and they grapple. Ok. Anything else? Also, the Reaver doesn’t even get a bonus to grapples. There is absolutely no reason to try to finish this class, or even stay in it past level 10, at the most. Honestly, if I were to make a character with this class, wouldn’t stay past level 6.

And honestly, insulting other posters is hardly necessary. Especially when most of them have a point. :smallannoyed:

[Edit]: Dang; I got sort of Ninja'd by Milskidasith.

[Greyfeld]

This is horribly weak. It's class feature is to grant few fighter bonus feats with one weapon, and it requires you to burn kills done in an incredibly specific way (while grappling with the enemy at low HP and without your strength bonus) in order to do anything really unique

Corruption encourages grappling, yes. It also allows for touch attacks for weapon damage (See: Lower AC for Touch Attacks). The ability is supposed to give the impression of the weapon sucking out the soul of the victim. Making this done through a standard melee attack (or a ranged attack) would make taking a creature's soul a triviality. The way I created the ability, it's still easily within the realm of "doable" without being incredibly difficult.

It also discourages cheese like stealing the soul of a low-CR, high-HD creature... like an elephant or something.


and those unique abilities really aren't that great; the negative levels would be OK if you didn't get them so late immunity to them is easily possible.

What has immunity to negative levels, aside from undead? You completely ignore the undead control, negative energy damage bonuses, ranged attack, burst attack, weapon scrying...


It does nothing well, honestly.

Ok, I guess it can't deal damage. Like, at all. Give me a break.


It gets a decent amount of in combat healing, I guess, except it uses a standard action in order to do so, which means you're going to get hit for far more than you actually heal at any level

If it wasn't a standard action, it would be overpowered. Out-healing damage done every round as a swift/move action, with no limit per day? Yeah, that's not overpowered for a striker class at all.


and even if you can maintain soul charges, you don't do too much. Maintaining soul charges is also very hard, since the only way you have a chance of actually killing somebody ECL appropriate to maintain soul charges is by using soul charges; as soon as you don't have them ready or can't land the killing blow to recharge, you are useless.

{Scrubbed}

At full BAB, this class has the same chance to hit as a Fighter, gets an automatic +3 AB/DMG by level 7 from bonus feats, and can use any martial weapon in the book. Chances are, you're going to see them packing Power Attack from level 1. At what point can this class NOT deal damage, even without soul charges?

That aside, maintaining soul charges is hard? At any given level, the average encounter will include creatures with double their CR in hit dice. If you're burning through 10 soul charges at level 5 in less time than it takes to complete one full encounter, the problem is with the rest of your group, not this class.

{Scrubbed}


The only powerful thing is the ability to, from level 1 on, completely prevent anything from being resurrected, which is not something D&D design supports and should be scrapped.

Nah, I'm good with it.

{Scrubbed}


since they are all locked into being grappler builds if they want to actually use their other abilities.

Improved Grappler = Grappler build?

{Scrubbed}


undead are very weak per hit die, so getting them isn't that great

The fact that the class can do ANYTHING with undead is a boon unto itself. It's actually more powerful than a Cleric's Turn Undead, albeit with a limited number of uses, since the soul in the weapon is fully expended upon use.


your damage mitigation heals far less than you'll be taking per round,

Once again, it was intended that way so as not to replace a full healer. Being able to heal up to 80 hp in one shot at level 20 is nothing to sneeze at. Much more than that and you're encroaching on the healer's job. Any faster than a standard action, and you've essentially replaced the healer altogether.


and your ranged damage is very weak

Ranged damage is meant to keep the class useful against flying enemies, not as a primary source of damage. Give any striker class built for melee a bow and tell me if they do any more damage.


again, requires you to go through an incredibly difficult process every time you want to use your class features.

Step 1: Grapple
Step 2: Touch Attack
Step 3: Profit

Pretty sure you're overexaggerating. Just because it isn't as simple as "Swing weapon, get stronger" doesn't make it "incredibly difficult."

[Greyfeld]

If you just don't like making tables, I love coding tables. And honestly, not making a table for your class just makes it seem like you aren't putting very much work into it, and it makes it hard to envision how exactly the features pan out, over 20 levels. Also, you can find multitudes of websites that code tables for classes for free, online, so that isn't really an excuse.

Reaver
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2| Soul Weapon (Unholy Weapon, Weapon Focus), Corruption (Soul Smite)

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3| Soul Weapon (Recall)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3| Soul Weapon (Weapon Specialization)

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4| Soul Weapon (Soul Scrying), Corruption (Soul Beam)

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4| Soul Weapon (Greater Weapon Focus)

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+5| Corruption (Soul Blast)

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+5| Soul Weapon (Greater Weapon Specialzation)

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+6| Corruption (Domination)

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+7| Corruption (Greater Soul Smite)

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+7|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+8|

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+8|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+9|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+9| Corruption (Reaving Soul Smite)

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+10|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12| Corruption (Soul Extinction) [/table]

Reaver
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2| Soul Weapon (Unholy Weapon, Weapon Focus), Corruption (Soul Smite)

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3| Soul Weapon (Recall)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3| Soul Weapon (Weapon Specialization)

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4| Soul Weapon (Soul Scrying), Corruption (Soul Beam)

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4| Soul Weapon (Greater Weapon Focus)

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+5| Corruption (Soul Blast)

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+5| Soul Weapon (Greater Weapon Specialzation)

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+6| Corruption (Domination)

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+7| Corruption (Greater Soul Smite)

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+7|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+8|

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+8|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+9|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+9| Corruption (Reaving Soul Smite)

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+10|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12| Corruption (Soul Extinction) [/table]



When do you get Bloodtheft? Also, this class is really, really frontloaded. It gains some really terrible feats (Weapon Focus, really?) Honestly, I doubt this should be a base class at all; it seems far more like a prestige class for Soulknife. And it would probably be better that way. Just get rid of the 15th and 20th level abilities, and then balance the first bunch out, give progression for soulknife damage, and there you go.

Onto the Corruption abilities. These really need to just be their own abilities. Don’t tie them into another ability, that just makes it confusing to read. Taking souls is generally useless against larger targets, forcing the DM to “give” you souls. Seeing as it is the main way to power class abilities, this seems off. Also, the Reaver seems sort of disjoined. He has a weapon. But in order to get his class abilities, he needs to grapple. How can multiple characters be different with this base class? They have a weapon and they grapple. Ok. Anything else? Also, the Reaver doesn’t even get a bonus to grapples. There is absolutely no reason to try to finish this class, or even stay in it past level 10, at the most. Honestly, if I were to make a character with this class, wouldn’t stay past level 6.

And honestly, insulting other posters is hardly necessary. Especially when most of them have a point. :smallannoyed:

[Edit]: Dang; I got sort of Ninja'd by Milskidasith.

I appreciate the effort put into creating the table. For the record, I already coded all this crap on another website, and I didn't feel like going through it all again for a forum post on a different website when it was just plain easier to copy/paste the text over.

As for your other comments, I'm not really concerned about people potentially only taking a few levels of the class. People do that for every class, no matter how good or bad they are. Hell, they do it for wizard, cleric and druid which are arguably the 3 most powerful classes in the system.

However, I'd like to point out the fallacy concerning "dead levels." Just because you don't get new shiny abilities doesn't make the level dead. Every level in this class increases your negative energy damage from Soul Strike, the number of Blood Points you weapon can hold, the amount of damage your Soul Burst can deal, not to mention getting full BAB and good Fort/Will saves. Granted, this isn't going to be enough of a reason to keep everybody going up to level 20 (and admittedly, I've felt like there should be a couple more high level class abilities to fill out the class, though I've had problems coming up with anything that fit, thematically), but it's completely incorrect to call every level that you don't gain new abilities a dead level.

That all said, you have a point with this being a PrC. It's definitely something to consider, especially if I can't figure out a way to flesh out the class better.

Edit: To answer your question, blood theft is supposed to be a level 1 ability. Though I'm starting to think that a lot of abilities are loaded on level 1, leaving it way too open for dipping.

[unosarta]

I appreciate the effort put into creating the table. For the record, I already coded all this crap on another website, and I didn't feel like going through it all again for a forum post on a different website when it was just plain easier to copy/paste the text over.
OK. Well, still, you really should make a table, even if just for yourself. And if you made the table on another forum, you might as well link it in the first post.


As for your other comments, I'm not really concerned about people potentially only taking a few levels of the class. People do that for every class, no matter how good or bad they are. Hell, they do it for wizard, cleric and druid which are arguably the 3 most powerful classes in the system.
Yeah, but for those, they don't need to. You can be just as powerful without PrCing as a Wizard, Cleric, or Druid. For a well designed class, anyone should be willing or even encouraged to stay in the class. Most of the classes in core aren't very well designed for that matter. The only thing that characters that leave this class lose is more negative levels when they use soul smite. That isn't really a reason to stay in the class.


However, I'd like to point out the fallacy concerning "dead levels." Just because you don't get new shiny abilities doesn't make the level dead. Every level in this class increases your negative energy damage from Soul Strike, the number of Blood Points you weapon can hold, the amount of damage your Soul Burst can deal, not to mention getting full BAB and good Fort/Will saves. Granted, this isn't going to be enough of a reason to keep everybody going up to level 20 (and admittedly, I've felt like there should be a couple more high level class abilities to fill out the class, though I've had problems coming up with anything that fit, thematically), but it's completely incorrect to call every level that you don't gain new abilities a dead level.
Honestly, it isn't a fallacy. This class is boring past level 10. You get more upgrades to new abilities, but nothing new happens except at level 15 and 20, which aren't really new anyway. It is just a boring class. Compare it to the Ebon Initiate, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163297) which is a very well designed base class. Compare the number of abilities. The Ebon Initiate just gets more. Base classes are supposed to be able to represent many varied styles of players. Yours can only make one. There isn't any depth, or any multifaceted characteristic about this class. Base Classes are multifaceted, Prestige Classes are supposed to be representing one style and one type of character, and even then, they can have multiple different play-styles. This class really only has one.


That all said, you have a point with this being a PrC. It's definitely something to consider, especially if I can't figure out a way to flesh out the class better.
Yeah, as a PrC, it wouldn't be necessarily bad, if you got rid of the boring and lame feats, like Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization, and replaced them with actual class features.

[Greyfeld]

Yeah, as a PrC, it wouldn't be necessarily bad, if you got rid of the boring and lame feats, like Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization, and replaced them with actual class features.

I think you underestimate the power of getting those feats for free (before a Fighter does, might I add).

[unosarta]

I think you underestimate the power of getting those feats for free (before a Fighter does, might I add).

+1 to hit, and +2 to damage? Really? Those feats are the lamest feats that you can pretty much take in core. Seriously. Even when you get the improved versions, that is a total of +2 to hit, and +4 to damage, which is just really not that much. And you haven't dealt with the other things that have been brought up, which are honestly more important than the terrible feats.

[The Glyphstone]

I think you underestimate the power of getting those feats for free (before a Fighter does, might I add).

I think you're grossly overestimating the value of those feats. Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are some of the weakest feats in the game, particularly in Core. They stop mattering entirely around level 10 or so...which is exactly when this class, as noted, runs out of steam.

You don't need to be so defensive about its power, though - it's a fun concept for a class, the mechanics are just terribly lackluster and a bit disjointed.


EDIT: Swordsage'd.

[unosarta]

Actually, one way to make it better might be to have feat trees, or bonuses and abilities that depend on the weapon bound, like ranged weapons get different abilities (maybe extra attacks or something that has to do with ranged attacks) if they are the weapon that is bound. Or something like that.

[Edit]: I had an idea for ranged weapons, if this is used.

So, the general template would be something like

{table=head]Level|Weapon Type Ability

1st|Bonus Feat

2nd|

3rd|

4th|Ability

5th|

6th|

7th|

8th|Bonus Feat

9th|

10th|

11th|

12th|Ability

13th|

14th|

15th|

16th|Bonus Feat

17th|

18th|

19th|

20th|Final Ability[/table]

And then each "tree" of weapons has a number of bonus feats. Ranged would probably get something like: Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Shot On the Run, Improved Precise Shot. Other feats, I am only going bare-bones here.

Abilities would depend on the tree.

Weapon Types would be like Pathfinder weapon groups: Ranged, Axes, Heavy Blades, Light Blades, Close, Double, Flails, Hammers, Monk, Natural (maybe included in monk), Pole Arms, Spears. You would have to choose which weapon group you are, at level one, and can change it with 24 hours of meditation. You could summon a weapon of the weapon type as a standard action, and it would have a bonus (including abilities) equal to one half of your character level, or something like that.

[Milskidasith]

I think you underestimate the power of getting those feats for free (before a Fighter does, might I add).

The feats you get are pretty terrible, in all honesty. Weapon focus is not worth a feat slot.


Corruption encourages grappling, yes. It also allows for touch attacks for weapon damage (See: Lower AC for Touch Attacks). The ability is supposed to give the impression of the weapon sucking out the soul of the victim. Making this done through a standard melee attack (or a ranged attack) would make taking a creature's soul a triviality. The way I created the ability, it's still easily within the realm of "doable" without being incredibly difficult.

Corruption requires strength focus, size increases, improved grapple, and picking up sources of damage besides your strength modifier in order to be useful, and against large enemies with high HD, you will still probably fail without some serious optimization. Similarly sized creatures who aren't grapple focused also have plenty of ways to escape grapples to prevent the attacks.


What has immunity to negative levels, aside from undead? You completely ignore the undead control, negative energy damage bonuses, ranged attack, burst attack, weapon scrying...

+10 negative energy per attack is useful. The rest of the abilities... not so much. The undead control costs a lot and undead are really generally quite useless (it's only useful against undead creatures with class levels, though the no save thing is nice), the ranged and burst attacks are incredibly weak, and weapon scrying is neither useful in combat, nor particularly useful out of combat, though getting it earlier is nice.

As for immunity: Death Ward. Constructs. Scarab of Life Protection. Various other items. Immunities are for sale in D&D, and you just need to know where to look.


Ok, I guess it can't deal damage. Like, at all. Give me a break.

It's damage is fairly low; it has no way of increasing damage besides 1/2 class level damage, and it encourages only attacking once (in an attack that only even does anything if the enemy has less than 50% HP, and doesn't get strength bonus) with the way the corruption ability is worded. Getting one weaker-than-normal attack per round is not particularly good damage (losing strength mod hurts you more than 10 damage per level). If you meant to allow full attacks with corruption, that should be stated.


If it wasn't a standard action, it would be overpowered. Out-healing damage done every round as a swift/move action, with no limit per day? Yeah, that's not overpowered for a striker class at all.

Unlimited out of combat healing exists from level one on with wands of lesser vigor. Anyway, by making it a standard action, it's pretty much useless because you deal no damage that round and, even with 80 damage healed per round, you aren't healing as much as most things are hurting you. Furthermore, this isn't really a striker; if it could deal as much damage as a decently optimized ToB character or sneak attacker with craven, I'd consider it one, but it really can't do much damage at all (not nearly enough ways to increase damage besides the negative energy damage on attack).


At full BAB, this class has the same chance to hit as a Fighter, gets an automatic +3 AB/DMG by level 7 from bonus feats, and can use any martial weapon in the book. Chances are, you're going to see them packing Power Attack from level 1. At what point can this class NOT deal damage, even without soul charges?

Fighters are T5, and are fairly bad at dealing damage as far as things go. They have everything you listed, except better bonus feats that allow them to customize and get better to-hit or damage.


That aside, maintaining soul charges is hard? At any given level, the average encounter will include creatures with double their CR in hit dice. If you're burning through 10 soul charges at level 5 in less time than it takes to complete one full encounter, the problem is with the rest of your group, not this class.


Any creature with double your CR in HD will be much better than you at grappling unless it is very small for its HD and has a low strength score, and you have to actually land the killing blow to get souls. Considering how much D&D is about rocket tag and combat lasts a while, trying to cherry tap the opponent with a single, weaker than normal attack per round to recharge is not a very safe option.


Nah, I'm good with it.

Being content with design that, at the very least, does not mesh with D&D at all (nothing besides mindrape [and good mindrape] can permachange alignment, and this does so at level one along with making revival impossible, which only gods and artifacts can do.), is not a good thing. I am trying to help, and passive aggressively waving off such comments is not going to make anybody want to PEACH your classes.


Improved Grappler = Grappler build?

You also need strength increases, size increases, and some ways to deal with the most common ways to auto-escape from grapples in order to maintain the hits, along with a good source of bonus damage (while grappling or in general) in order to offset the fact you don't get the bonus to the strength score you've been pumping. I guess you could try to pick up Shadow Blade and focus dex so you still did good damage while grappling, but then your grapple mod would suffer.


The fact that the class can do ANYTHING with undead is a boon unto itself. It's actually more powerful than a Cleric's Turn Undead, albeit with a limited number of uses, since the soul in the weapon is fully expended upon use.

Turn undead is, for good reason, considered basically useless unless optimized or used to fuel divine feats.


Once again, it was intended that way so as not to replace a full healer. Being able to heal up to 80 hp in one shot at level 20 is nothing to sneeze at. Much more than that and you're encroaching on the healer's job. Any faster than a standard action, and you've essentially replaced the healer altogether.

The healer job doesn't exist in D&D 3.5e. In combat healing, save the in combat revival spells and maybe the heal spell (due to getting a huge amount healed) is useless because most everything just hits harder and faster than healing spells can keep up.


Ranged damage is meant to keep the class useful against flying enemies, not as a primary source of damage. Give any striker class built for melee a bow and tell me if they do any more damage.

They may not deal more damage, sure, but how does that prove anything? Whether it's a non bow focused fighter with a bow or this class using it's class features, either way it's ranged contributions are basically unimportant to combat.

Sidenote: The fighter would still deal more damage, because his damage would be (with a composite longbow) weapon damage + str mod + bonus damage four times, while your attacks are weapon damage + wis mod (MAD problems) once.


Step 1: Grapple
Step 2: Touch Attack
Step 3: Profit

Pretty sure you're overexaggerating. Just because it isn't as simple as "Swing weapon, get stronger" doesn't make it "incredibly difficult."

Step 1 is the problem: Grappling immunity is easy for basically everybody squishy you could fight, and the big dumb beatsticks you fight are going to have such high size and HD that grappling them is also not a good option.

[unosarta]

Step 1 is the problem: Grappling immunity is easy for basically everybody squishy you could fight, and the big dumb beatsticks you fight are going to have such high size and HD that grappling them is also not a good option.
Actually, this is something I forgot to add. You actually cannot grapple with something more than 2 size categories larger than you. So, if a human were to enter this class, they would be unable to grapple a gargantuan or colossal creature, and it almost completely rules out small or smaller Reavers, which just seems unfair.

Relevant rules. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple)


Several combatants can be in a single grapple. Up to four combatants can grapple a single opponent in a given round. Creatures that are one or more size categories smaller than you count for half, creatures that are one size category larger than you count double, and creatures two or more size categories larger count quadruple.

[Greyfeld]

Actually, this is something I forgot to add. You actually cannot grapple with something more than 2 size categories larger than you. So, if a human were to enter this class, they would be unable to grapple a gargantuan or colossal creature, and it almost completely rules out small or smaller Reavers, which just seems unfair.

Relevant rules. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple)

Playing a race smaller than medium size pretty much precludes you from playing most STR-based combat classes in the first place, purely due to weapon size issues and strength penalties. So I don't really see the problem here.

[unosarta]

Playing a race smaller than medium size pretty much precludes you from playing most STR-based combat classes in the first place, purely due to weapon size issues and strength penalties. So I don't really see the problem here.

It gives them a penalty for strength based combat classes. but it also gives them a bonus to Armor Class and attack rolls, which they can offset with Power Attack. For this class, it makes them useless altogether, which again doesn't seem fair. Also, this still doesn't change the fact that Colossal and Gargantuan creatures are immune as well, unless you are huge (for colossal), or large (for gargantuan).

[The Glyphstone]

Playing a race smaller than medium size pretty much precludes you from playing most STR-based combat classes in the first place, purely due to weapon size issues and strength penalties. So I don't really see the problem here.

Weapon die size is a non-issue unless you're playing a King of Smack build, but looking directly at the numbers:

Small Size (Gnome or halfling), have -2 Str (-1 atk, -1 dmg), but get +1 attack from size. Their weapons are a die size smaller (1d4 or 1d6 instead of 1d6 or 1d8, an average difference of 1 point of damage. That's a total net change of nothing to attack, and -2 damage...if -2 damage is enough to prevent you from playing a melee fighter, so be it.

In grappling, however, they're at -5 (size penalty and str penalty), and can't successfully grapple anything above Large size.

See the problem now?