Possession 3.5 its trying to possess what?

[Boren]

After reading a few threads around here myself and a friend got into a long conversation about possession (by 3.5) FCI and BoVD. We discussed many things useful from both a DM and PC prospective but here's the one I'd like to get a little more thought on...

What happens if a demon attempts to possess (as per possessing a magic item) a lich's phylactery? Both if the lich is 'active' and if the lich is trapped in it (body recently destroyed)
We had some thoughts but I'll share after I see a few ideas :smallwink:

[Sindri]

The same thing that happens when they try to possess any other magic item. I'd probably consider the phylactery to always be attended by the lich, and thus use it's Will save to resist possession.

[WinWin]

I honestly can't give a RAW answer.

I would suggest that the object get a saving throw using the Will save of the lich.

It would then be able to use any effects relating to the object as per normal.

If the phylactery were housing the essence of a lich, then I would use the rules for possessing a creature. The possession is not called out as a mind effecting ability, so it should work on undead.

Most likely, it would use it's control of the phylactery in an attempt to influence the lich.

[Boren]

I honestly can't give a RAW answer.

Indeed that's part of what makes it such an interesting question; or at least we thought so :smallwink:

[thubby]

i think the more important question is, what kind of demon would be dumb enough to possess an item belonging to a caster that is powerful enough to basically turn the demon inside out for fun, and evil enough to do it?

[KillianHawkeye]

i think the more important question is, what kind of demon would be dumb enough to possess an item belonging to a caster that is powerful enough to basically turn the demon inside out for fun, and evil enough to do it?

The kind that's gotten bored of eating babies and raping kittens. If you ever get the urge to ask "what won't a demon do?" remember, it's a frickin' DEMON! It's pretty much willing to do anything.

[thubby]

The kind that's gotten bored of eating babies and raping kittens. If you ever get the urge to ask "what won't a demon do?" remember, it's a frickin' DEMON! It's pretty much willing to do anything.

but they aren't stupid

[tonberrian]

but they aren't stupid

Not being stupid != won't do stupid things. Countless millenia plus creatures of [Chaos] equals most things that are possible to happen will have happened.

[KillianHawkeye]

but they aren't stupid

Boredom frequently trumps intelligence.

Besides, demons aren't really afraid of much. They're basically immortal. Even if they're killed they'll eventually reform in the Abyss. Thus they strike me as the sort of creatures who'll try anything once.

[Marnath]

Boredom frequently trumps intelligence.

Besides, demons aren't really afraid of much. They're basically immortal. Even if they're killed they'll eventually reform in the Abyss. Thus they strike me as the sort of creatures who'll try anything once.

Except you can be killed permanently on your home plane, and if anyone can track you there and end you, it's certainly within a lich's capabilities.

[Sir_Elderberry]

I can see a demon trying it in an attempt to bring the Lich closer to the cause of Chaos. If it was a fairly low level Lich, fairly high level demon, you might be able to work out some sort of power-temptation trick.

[KillianHawkeye]

Except you can be killed permanently on your home plane, and if anyone can track you there and end you, it's certainly within a lich's capabilities.

If the lich wants to travel to the Abyss where you hang out with your infinity friends and start a fight, he is welcome to do so. :smallwink:

At least, that's what I imagine it's like from the demons' perspective.

[Marnath]

If the lich wants to travel to the Abyss where you hang out with your infinity friends and start a fight, he is welcome to do so. :smallwink:

At least, that's what I imagine it's like from the demons' perspective.

You do know that demons don't really have friends right? Only the ones weaker than you that you personally brow-beat into your control would help. Besides, the way most casters play you'd teleport in, omgwtf pwn the demon, and leave again before the surprise round is over. :smalltongue:

[KillianHawkeye]

You do know that demons don't really have friends right? Only the ones weaker than you that you personally brow-beat into your control would help. Besides, the way most casters play you'd teleport in, omgwtf pwn the demon, and leave again before the surprise round is over. :smalltongue:

A) Duh. But they still band together when a hostile force invades.

B) You can't teleport to the Abyss. So you have to be already in the Abyss first. Also, demons can teleport, too.

C) I never said the demon is necessarily right or that possessing a lich's phylactery was a GOOD idea. I'm just trying to find ways to justify doing it anyway. Because demons to me are the epitome of doing it anyway.

Finally, I'm not sure the average demon would actually care if it got completely and permanently destroyed. There's an infinite supply of them in the Abyss, so plenty more where that came from. I know the for sure the Abyss doesn't care if some lowly grunts get wiped. As far as I can see it's usually the older, more powerful demons who have names and make plans lasting longer than next week that actually have something to lose.

[Marnath]

B) You can't teleport to the Abyss. So you have to be already in the Abyss first. Also, demons can teleport, too.


Yes you can, it's called plane shift.

[The Glyphstone]

Or Greater Plane Shift, for when you really need to get to a specific spot.

[KillianHawkeye]

Plane Shift != Teleport

I already said if you want to use teleport you have to already be in the Abyss! :smallsigh:

Anyway, you're missing the point.

I'm just trying to find ways to justify doing it anyway. Because demons to me are the epitome of doing it anyway.

[Marnath]

I get the feeling we're arguing about different things here....plane shift is a form of teleportation. Specifically, teleportation between planes.

[KillianHawkeye]

Yes, we are getting caught up in semantics.